Goktimus' thoughts on Beast Wars vs Animated

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=3377&page=3).



Beast Wars is the best TF TV series IMO. Animated doesn't hold a candle to Beast Wars. *nods*
I can see why you'd feel that way, but I prefer Animated.
May I ask why?

I'm not saying that you're not entitled to prefer Animated over Beast Wars, of course you are - but I'd like to know why you feel that way.

My reasons for preferring Beast Wars over Animated include:

1.Not Just For Kids

One of the reasons why I consider Beast Wars to be the best Transformers TV series is because it's written to appeal to both children and adults at the same time. I remember reading an interview with the show's producer published around 1996/7 and he said that Mainframe had realised that by the mid-1990s a lot of kids who grew up with Transformers during the 1980s would be in their late teens and 20s, meaning that they had a core fandom of young adults that they wanted to appeal to. And in 1997 we adult fans were a much smaller community compared to today - we probably constituted less than 5-10% of people who bought Transformer toys with the rest of them being for children of course. But in spite of this Mainframe still made the conscious decision to give the show dual appeal to both kids and adults. They actively sought out Transformer fans on the internet, primarily on the ATT newsgroup and forged connections with fans -- the show itself is littered with Transfan references as a tribute.

Beast Wars was the first time that we saw Transformer characters in a TV series which had depth. G1 cartoon Transformers were essentially shallow one-dimensional archetypes. Beast Wars consciously worked on creating character development. Let's compare Cheetor and Bumblebee as they're similar characters: throughout the Beast Wars and Beast Machines we actually get to see him mature from a boy into a man. I'm not seeing this in Animated Bumblebee. At the beginning of Season 1 I found Bumblebee to be egocentric and conceited - a selfish brat really. By the end of Season 2, what's changed? Not much really... he's still desperately seeking to prove himself. (-_-) Now sure, Cheetor also started off being impulsive and rash and throughout the Beast Wars he really wanted to prove himself to the other Maximals... but we saw an evolution in his character... as the series progressed we see Cheetor change in his outlook and approach. The desperation and impulsiveness was still there, but it changed. It matured. And by time he returned to Cybertron, he had outgrown it. I'm just not seeing this progression in Bumblebee's character.

2. A Whole New World

Beast Wars gave us a whole fresh new twist on Transformers and as discussed here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=3378) it's the closest thing that's ever come to "dethroning" G1. Animated on the other hand is essentially a new take on G1 - and while it is a good upgrade in several places, it's not quite as audacious as Beast Wars. Animated is fundamentally still sticking with the "tried and true" formula of cars and planes, Autobots and Decepticons, whereas Beast Wars took a bold leap in taking Transformers into 'undiscovered country.' As discussed in the "G1 dethroning" thread, although G1 did have animal modes none of them were true realistic organic beast modes. The Pretender Beasts' shells came close, but those aren't alt modes.

I find the animation and visual effects in Animated to be fairly standard by 2008 standards. Technically it's not bad, although there were some stylistic choices I didn't like, such as the "Tazzie Devil whirlwind transformation," but to Animated's credit they did get rid of that in later episodes and went back to properly animating transformations. Beast Wars' CGI animation was excellent by 1997 standards, with Season 2 winning an Emmy Award for best visual effects in an animated television series in 1998. Much like the toyline, the animation was pushing boundaries. The animation and visual effects in Beast Machines was just spectacular... I don't like the story as much as Beast Wars, but in terms of animation and effects I prefer Beast Machines.

3. Toys

Animated is notorious riddled with QC problems and design flaws. By 2008 standards I find the overall design and quality of Animated toys to be fairly ordinary. There's no need for Bumblebee to have two entirely different shades of yellow or for Voyager Starscream to have those useless back panels - and you all know the bane of my existence that is Blitzwing. (-_-) Compared to recent TF lines like Cybertron, the movie line and Classics/Universe/Henkei, Animated just seems... okay. Not bad but not fantastic by comparison either. By mid-1990s standards Beast Wars was awesome and showed a distinct progression from improvements made during late G2. By the end of Generation 2 we saw HasTak introducing articulated robot modes including the use of ball-and-socket joints to provide natural movement. Beast Wars then gave us improved durability, highly detailed sculpting and paint apps (making stickers a laughable joke of the past) and self-contained accessories (a concept originally conceived for G2 but abandoned and later revived for Beast Wars/Machine Wars). Gestalts had self-contained gestalt parts.

Electronic gimmicks were a rarity with boxed toys, and even then, it didn't dominate those figures. The majority of boxed toys didn't have electronic bells and whistles and rather focused on just being good Transformer action figures (and cheaper too). Having said that, this isn't purely an issue with Animated - it's something that Hasbro has developed since Armada - that somehow every boxed toy needs to have electronics. (-_-)

Speaking of money, Beast Wars was also cheaper to collect as an entire line. The majority of figures were carded Basics and Deluxes. Boxed figures (Megas, Ultras and Optimal Optimus (Super)) were a minority. And boxed figures that appeared in the show would be awesomely cool - e.g.: Rampage, Protoform X soul-less hard-bottom villain, compared to say Bulkhead, who's a Leader Class clown (I'm so glad I got him during a sale). (-_-) Also, the fact that they didn't have so many different versions of the same character meant that their boxed characters didn't shelf-warm as long. It seems that boxed Animated figures are shelf-warming much more than carded ones. I'm hearing reports about Activators flying off shelves while Leaders are just gathering dust. There's like a truck load of Ultra Magnuses/Magni at my local TRU. I think the majority of parents would rather buy their child a cheaper carded version of the same character instead of a more expensive boxed one. Now to be fair, this isn't a problem that is exclusive to Animated - I think it's something that started from Armada, but Animated is effected as a result.

--------------------------

Now none of this is to say that I necessarily dislike Animated or think that it's terrible - I actually do like the show and toyline. But I prefer Beast Wars in comparison.

[roller]

in regards to Quality Control

20 years ago they could afford chrome and release figures that did not have wet paint

has Hasbro lost alot of money in 20yrs? I would have thought automation and stuff would have cut costs over the last 20 yrs so they would have more money to splash on chrome etc.

do other Hasbro toy lines suffer such bad QC?

[Sky Shadow]

My reasons for preferring Beast Wars over Animated include:

1.Not Just For Kids

Um... Gok... I'm not a kid and I love Animated.


2. A Whole New World

Fair point. Beast Wars is amazing in that it created entirely new characters in a new situation and yet it was still firmly ensconced in G1 continuity. On the other hand, in my opinion, Animated's G1 revivalist style is leagues better than the G1 cartoon that it's "essentially a new take on". It has solid story arcs, a coherent universe created by Isenberg and Wyatt and a small, strong focal group of core characters who have more personality and more development than the Season 1-2 G1 cartoon characters got at the time. Plus there are character types that have never been done that well before. Bulkhead is the best and most original new character type since I-don't-remember-when. Blitzwing is a more endearing multiple personality than Galvatron, Punch/Counterpunch or Savage/Noble. And Sentinel Prime is an Autobot jerk in ways that Huffer, Gears, Sideswipe and Rattrap never were.


3. Toys

Animated got more votes than Beast Wars in the favourite-all-time-toy-series category in this year's Ozformers awards. Beast Wars had some good toys and was progressive for its time, particularly in the beginning - the first two years of toys were amazing and new. Ultra Optimus Primal, Magnaboss, original Tarantulas/Blackarachnia - all highlights. But from the advent of Transmetals and Fuzors, the line went downhill fast. Transmetal Cheetor, Transmetal 2 Jawbreaker, Cybershark, Iguanus - these are just some of the worst Transformers toys of all time from the latter end of Beast Wars. Yes, Animated Blitzwing was an ambitious failure. But so many Animated toys - Voyager and Leader Bulkhead, Cybertron Mode Optimus Prime, Lugnut! These achieve levels of awesomeness seen in few other Transformers over the past twenty-five years.

[GoktimusPrime]

Um... Gok... I'm not a kid and I love Animated.
I like Animated too, but I just find that the show doesn't attempt to appeal to me as an adult as much as Beast Wars did. IMHO there's a lack of substantial character development and episodes that deal with deep issues like Transmutate (right to life/abortion) and Code of Hero (bravery/cowardice, suicide). There's a also a lack of character depth too IMO. Sentinel Prime just seems like a jerk because he just is... like a shallow one-dimensional high-school jock archetype. Depth Charge is a jerk too, but we know why... the guy's got issues up the wa-hoo with deep-running psychological/emotional scars that can never heal.

I have a love/hate view of Bulkhead... on one hand I really want to like this character - but Animated writers just don't want to develop his character any deeper than being a big dumb brute. (-_-)


Plus there are character types that have never been done that well before. Bulkhead is the best and most original new character type since I-don't-remember-when. Blitzwing is a more endearing multiple personality than Galvatron, Punch/Counterpunch or Savage/Noble. And Sentinel Prime is an Autobot jerk in ways that Huffer, Gears, Sideswipe and Rattrap never were.
As I said, I'm sorely disappointed with Bulkhead. I so wanted him to be more than meets the eye, but so far he's been pretty much "what you see is what you get." And big dumb lumbering brutes is nothing new, the G1 cartoon Dinobots and Trypticon were pretty much like that. I think Punch/Counterpunch suffers from the same thing that G1 Thundercracker did - a character with underused potential. :/ G1 'toon Galvatron was a 'tard-monkey so yeah, I won't argue about him. :p

I personally can't compare Noble/Savage with Blitzwing because Noble/Savage is at best only semi-sentient. In terms of Transformers with multiple personalities my favourite would be Car Robot's Gigatron who had 10 different personalities and voice characterisations in his different modes (e.g.: Gigabat = jerk/bully, Gigadragon = menacing/monsterous tyrant etc.). The RiD dub didn't carry this over unfortunately.

And I don't object with Sentinel Prime being a jerk per se... it's just that there's nothing more to him. As I said before, Depth Charge was a jerk but Beast Wars clearly explained that he's a tormented soul. Yeah, it is cool that we have an Autobot who's basically a bad guy in some ways and gives other Autobots (particularly Optimus Prime) a good basis to interact off (e.g.: forcing him to become more assertive). But Sentinel just seems like a shallow "jock" archetype to me.

[Kyle]

I love both shows, and hold them in high regards. But I just can't compare or decide which one I like more.

Toy line as a whole, I prefer Animated over Beast Wars. Don't get me wrong though, BW had some of the best engineering ever! But, there were many many toys/characters that never appeared in the show. Some of these only got "retconned" into comics/stories many years later. Animated on the other hand, is the first ever cartoon based toy line that I have a STRONG desire to collect them all, and have done so minus the repaints, which are very few compared to say the Movie line. (I do have all of the seeker repaints and Cliffjumper though, repaints that make sense to me.) Each toy just screams character. You can pretty much hear the character's voice in your head the moment you lay eyes on a toy. I'll actually go as far as saying I like Animated toys more than I like Henkei/Classics. I know it's very strange for me to say I enjoy Animated toys much more than I enjoy Henkei/Classic. :o:p QC problems aside (I haven't really experienced these myself), the only big problem is scale. The toy line would be pretty much perfect if they fix the scale.

[GoktimusPrime]

Just reiterating that I don't think that Animated is a terrible line/show that is without merit. I do think Animated has several good things going for it and Beast Wars isn't perfect either. But on the whole when I weigh up what I like and dislike between the two of them, I would have to say that I prefer Beast Wars over Animated.


But, there were many many toys/characters that never appeared in the show. Some of these only got "retconned" into comics/stories many years later.
Yeah but that's not the toyline's fault since the toys came first. It is true that only a small handful of BW toys ever appeared in the show but that's because computer animation is very, very expensive - much more so than cel animation. But what the Canadian BW TV series may have lacked in quantity it more than compensated for with quality. Compare this with Beast Wars II, the Beast Wars movie and Beast Wars Neo - these featured all the toys but the animation/visual effects and writing are nowhere near as good as the Canadian series... especially BWII, I found the animation on that show to be quite poor by 1998 Japanese animé standards. The movie's animation was quite good though (it would've had a bigger budget and is animating less air time though - storywise it was fairly mediocre). The animation in BW Neo was better but lazy - I didn't like how they reused the same stock footage for every transformation in a big "song and dance show." (-_-) I've never liked over-done transformation sequences unless it's for a gestalt (even then you eventually get tired of it). The writing was pretty boring for the most part until the Unicron-arc at the end. I find the pre-Blentron eps to be quite dull.

So the core question is really which do you prefer between the two: Beast Wars or Animated?

I know you hold them both in equal regard Kyle, but I'd like to hear from others and why they have their preferences. :)

[The_Damned]

i tired to watch beast wars but couldnt really get into it and have no desire to really collect the toys, on the other hand loved animated and want to colect all the toys.

[Sky Shadow]

Also, the fact that they didn't have so many different versions of the same character meant that their boxed characters didn't shelf-warm as long.

Bwahahaha! I just reread this. Um... <cough>Transmetal Scavenger</cough>. He's probably still sitting on a David Jones shelf somewhere. :p

[Kyle]

Yeah but that's not the toyline's fault since the toys came first. It is true that only a small handful of BW toys ever appeared in the show but that's because computer animation is very, very expensive - much more so than cel animation.

There is an apple and there is an orange. I prefer apple. And I already know it is not the orange's fault that it is not born an apple. But I still like the apple more. :p

[Gutsman Heavy]

Bwahahaha! I just reread this. Um... <cough>Transmetal Scavenger</cough>. He's probably still sitting on a David Jones shelf somewhere. :p

Spread some jam or honey on the ground outside, give it 5 mins you there'll be 5 scavengers for every ant that shows :D

[GoktimusPrime]

Um... <cough>Transmetal Scavenger</cough>. He's probably still sitting on a David Jones shelf somewhere.
Liar. :p TM Scavenger would've sold better if Hasbro hadn't screwed up and named it "Inferno" as it was obviously meant to be (Takara later released this toy in Japan as Metals Inferno). I think Scavenger's a pretty neat toy... being a Unicron lookalike was funny. :) Terrorsaur and Waspinator as my least favourite TM moulds (yet they reused TM Terrorsaur for Armada...).

Anyway, that wasn't the point I was making. What I'm saying is that Animated has several different versions of the same character in the same incarnation. TM Scavenger doesn't count because it's a different incarnation (i.e.: Transmetal upgrade) of Inferno. It's different from say Bulkhead where children and their parents can choose between an Activator, Voyager or Leader of the same character in the same incarnation. If I were a parent I'd encourage my child to get the cheapest one.

Now naturally cheaper toys will always move faster than dearer ones... but geez... you should check out TRU Parramatta - look up the very top and behold the plethora of Animated Leaders up there. It's nearly touching the ceiling - I've never seen so many! More expensive figures should be produced/distributed in smaller quantities to avoid them shelfwarming as dead stock. Again, this is purely anecdotal based on my observation and from what I've heard from other fans - I don't have access to any solid sales or distribution data.

[Wheel-J]

My comment just on the topic of bulkhead. :)



I have a love/hate view of Bulkhead... on one hand I really want to like this character - but Animated writers just don't want to develop his character any deeper than being a big dumb brute. (-_-)

In the animated cartoon, Bulkhead was the Top Space Bridge Technician on planet Cybertron. :)

Script from the episode: A Bridge Too Close Part 1
Bumblebee: Woah, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Back up!
Prowl: Did he just say Bulkhead?
Optimus Prime: Our Bulkhead?
Ratchet: An expert? On anything?!



As I said, I'm sorely disappointed with Bulkhead. I so wanted him to be more than meets the eye, but so far he's been pretty much "what you see is what you get." And big dumb lumbering brutes is nothing new, the G1 cartoon Dinobots and Trypticon were pretty much like that.

Not in all aspect... :rolleyes:

You can watch Shockwave's report on Bulkhead's "tech spec/rating(?)" from 5:45
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=prQTTleEVis

At least his capable on something mentally challenging even the great professor sumdac (who recreated Megatron in season 1) could testify.


I'll actually go as far as saying I like Animated toys more than I like Henkei/Classics. I know it's very strange for me to say I enjoy Animated toys much more than I enjoy Henkei/Classic. :o:p

+1 :D

[Sky Shadow]

Terrorsaur and Waspinator as my least favourite TM moulds (yet they reused TM Terrorsaur for Armada...).

I agree with Transmetal Waspinator - awful toy and a huge disappointment. I love Transmetal Terrorsaur though - he has cool undocumented turny-bits on the side of his chest and a backward-flyer mode!


Anyway, that wasn't the point I was making. What I'm saying is that Animated has several different versions of the same character in the same incarnation.

Yeah, I did get what you meant, but you mentioned "There's like a truck load of Ultra Magnuses/Magni at my local TRU", and Ultra Magnus's shelfwarmth is no different to Scavenger's - neither of them have/had any other incarnations as competition. They're just unloved. :(

[loophole]

At the moment i would say that i like the BW show more then Animated but i dont think you can really compare the two until Animated has finished its run, i mean if you compare just the first season of both there probally about the same level of interest but when you add season 2 to the playing field BW i think leaps ahead in storyline and charcter development.

As for the toys i like animated way better than BW because i find the Animated toys more fun to play with, but the Beast Wars stuff is more sentimental to me because of the characters in the show and the love i have of those characters.

[Lord_Zed]

I agree with Transmetal Waspinator - awful toy and a huge disappointment. I love Transmetal Terrorsaur though - he has cool undocumented turny-bits on the side of his chest and a backward-flyer mode!


I to am a huge fan of Transmetal Terrorsaur, I thought he was just plain fun, Rhinox is my least favourte because he's a hassle to transform.

Alas I have no comment on Animated vs Beast Wars, as try as I might I can't get in to the Animated cartoon and the only toy I bought to sample the line was a flop. Other than Activators that is, I do like them. ;)

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

From here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=3377&page=3).


May I ask why?

I'm not saying that you're not entitled to prefer Animated over Beast Wars, of course you are - but I'd like to know why you feel that way...



:) No worries, I was going to elaborate but we've had a 45-odd degree day here and I'm getting over a fairly big weekend, so the ol' brain is kinda fried today. I'll get round to it over the next day or two.

[roller]

why are we discussing this?

the thread is clearly "Goktimus' thoughts on Beast Wars vs Animated"

his point of view, i cannae argue with his view, iz his not mine

[Paulbot]

:) No worries, I was going to elaborate but we've had a 45-odd degree day here and I'm getting over a fairly big weekend, so the ol' brain is kinda fried today. I'll get round to it over the next day or two.

Moderator note: This is a "soapbox"-type thread and please don't feel the need to respond it you don't want to. This is why I renamed the thread from Goktimus' original thread title.

Everyone on this board is welcome to have their opinion and no one needs to justify this to anyone, nor should they be asked to, nor should any other member try to impose their beliefs on others or try to discredit others by implying their opinion is wrong.

[1orion2many]

:rolleyes:This discussion could go around in circles forever. You have people who either prefer Beast Wars, Animated, G1, Bleah Bleah Bleah and don't necessarily wish to argue the point of why they prefer that continuity. I have my personal preference which is Beast Wars but I'm not going to sit here and write a long explanation(mainly because I'm lazy:o) on why I prefer this continuity, I just do. It's my personal opinion and everyone is entitled to there own preference to what they like and expressing that opinion is a matter of choice and cannot be forced, there is no wrong or right opinion it is just that an opinion. Enjoy what you like and expand your horizons by occasionally watching what you don't as you may find over a period of time that the very thing you dislike will grow on you like fungus:D.

[GoktimusPrime]

Mmm... lichen fresh...

Just want to clarify that this thread isn't meant to be about "my opinion is better/more righteous than yours" or forcing one opinion over another, but merely an opportunity for people to present their preferences and, if they want to, explain why. It's not about proving anyone right or wrong - because there is no right or wrong with personal preferences... merely mentioning which one we prefer and why.

At the end of the day, I doubt anyone will change my preference, but I am curious to understand why people would prefer Animated over Beast Wars - I would like to gain a better understanding/appreciation of people who hold an opposing view of my own... keep my mind open to different opinions out there. :) Simply stating that people prefer Animated over Beast Wars without explaining why doesn't allow me to gain a more insightful understanding of that opinion.

I'm not seeking to necessarily agree or disagree... merely to understand. Just because I may not agree with someone's opinion doesn't mean I don't want to know more about it.

I hope nobody feels that I am trying to "attack" anyone's opinions here. I know that I can get pretty exciting and passionate in these kinds of discussions, but it doesn't mean that I'm trying to impose my views onto anyone. No disrespect to anyone is intended here. I would just like to have a civil, respectful and fun discussion over people's preferences between Beast Wars and Animated. There's no obligation to participate in this discussion if it makes you feel uncomfortable. :)

I don't think this would be much of a Discussion Board if we all agreed with each other all the time. ;) We're all individuals with different views and that makes life interesting.


In the animated cartoon, Bulkhead was the Top Space Bridge Technician on planet Cybertron.
Yeah... I think they could've handled that better. I was excited to hear that he was a top space bridge technician, but was disappointed to see him childishly cave into his ego by actually helping the Decepticons build the bridge and refusing to follow along Isaac Sumdac's suggestion of feigning cooperation whilst secretly sabotaging the project... he allowed his emotions to cloud his judgement in a fairly immature manner of oneupmanship.

It's still like he's a 'tard who just happens to have one particular gift/talent, which can happen with some autistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism_spectrum) people - or in very rare cases, Savants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savant_syndrome). But even an intellectually impaired character can still be written as a deep and meaningful character - take Transmutate for example. There's also Noble/Savage who isn't actually intellectually handicapped but as I said, has a semi-sentient (arguably nonsentient) level of intellect/awareness.

I just want Bulkhead to be more than just a clumsy "one trick pony" oaf. Heck... Harry Potter's Hagrid is a much more meaningful character despite also being portrayed as a big lumbering oaf.

[iceburn]

*pooofff*...so much to read.. :D
eyes watering and tired

me like Beast Wars now and Animated too. different concepts and different target audience for different generations.

that reminds me....STL, Season 3 of Beast Wars plzzz....

[Adzma]

Well Beast Wars was my very first exposure to Transformers, I was only a little tacker at the time :p so naturally I'd be biased against it now. It is, and I believe will always be, the best Transformers show of all time. As I kid I loved it, and I can actually remember crying when Dinobot died. Bah go on, poke fun at me! ;) I know you all wept when Prime died 10 years earlier. I still remember the joy when I opened up an Optimus Primal, which I still have today, on my birthday and the same feeling with my Optimal Optimus at Christmas a couple of years later. Sadly both are in need of repairs now due to love and affection. :p But watching it again in 2006 when MadMan released the DVDs I found I could appreciate it even more now than I did as a kid. I tried to like Animated, but I just found it dull and too childish but hey, Hasbro have a market to keep and they're a business. I do wish there was a direct sequel to Beast Machines, and hopefully one that retconns the show entirely anyway, but it wouldn't be economically viable for Hasbro to do it, so they won't.

[kup]

Well Beast Wars was my very first exposure to Transformers, I was only a little tacker at the time :p so naturally I'd be biased against it now. It is, and I believe will always be, the best Transformers show of all time. As I kid I loved it, and I can actually remember crying when Dinobot died. Bah go on, poke fun at me! ;) I know you all wept when Prime died 10 years earlier. I still remember the joy when I opened up an Optimus Primal, which I still have today, on my birthday and the same feeling with my Optimal Optimus at Christmas a couple of years later. Sadly both are in need of repairs now due to love and affection. :p But watching it again in 2006 when MadMan released the DVDs I found I could appreciate it even more now than I did as a kid. I tried to like Animated, but I just found it dull and too childish but hey, Hasbro have a market to keep and they're a business. I do wish there was a direct sequel to Beast Machines, and hopefully one that retconns the show entirely anyway, but it wouldn't be economically viable for Hasbro to do it, so they won't.

It would be possible to have a retconed series that takes place right after Beast Wars while not necesarily having a need to go back to being exclusively composed of Beast modes. At the end of BW, they went back to Cybertron, a Cybertron that had earth as a big influence in its culture and where the population is mostly composed of vehicle modes rather than Beast modes. We must also assume that Earth is still around during that post G1 era so they could always do an Earth based series within the BW timeline without having to be prehistoric. Yeah it it would need to be 'futuristic' but so is Armada, Energon and Cybertron.

[GoktimusPrime]

As I kid I loved it, and I can actually remember crying when Dinobot died. Bah go on, poke fun at me! I know you all wept when Prime died 10 years earlier.
hahaha, so true. :D "Code of Hero" was a very emotional episode, even for adults. It was a fan favourite episode (according to results of the Trannies Awards). To this day I still view it as an absolutely awesome ep. :) I'd rate Dinobot as one of the greatest martyrs of Transformerdom, easily comparable with Optimus Prime/Primal... perhaps even moreso. Self-sacrifice seems to be second nature to any Transformer with the name "Optimus" but for Dinobot it was a far more difficult decision made under far more difficult circumstances.

"Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds, along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly... The rest is silence" - Dinobot (Code of Hero)

"A man is for one generation. Honour for all generations." - Bushido proverb

[Bartrim]

I just want Bulkhead to be more than just a clumsy "one trick pony" oaf. Heck... Harry Potter's Hagrid is a much more meaningful character despite also being portrayed as a big lumbering oaf.

What about his aspiring artist angle?:D

[Thanatos]

EDIT: Content unfair/biased.

[jaydisc]

and I can actually remember crying when Dinobot died.

Oh man..... how about some spoiler alerts people?!?!?!?

:mad::(:o:p;):rolleyes::D

[Paulbot]

Thanatos, yes my moderation post above covers this and this is why I chose to change the thread title last night to make it clear it is just Goktimus Prime's thoughts on the subject. View this as a "soapbox" like those STL does.

There does not need to be any further discussion about whether this thread should exist. And any more will be removed with prejudice.

As I stated Ode to a Grasshopper doesn't need to respond but has indicated that he will so the thread is still open.

[roller]

Bah go on, poke fun at me! ;)

okay you asked for it :) poke poke poke

i didn't cry when i found out prime died

and i didn't cry when Dinobot died and i was like 9 or something when that happened- im glad they killed him off, he was so....'im a hardcore samurai hamlet wannabe'

Dinobot II is so cool!!!

Imagine if someone cried everytime waspinator got blowed up, thered be a puddle :)

[jacksplatt11]

Optimus Prime died???? C'mon people, SPOILER WARNINGS PLEASE

[Omega Supreme]

Optimus Prime died???? C'mon people, SPOILER WARNINGS PLEASE

LOL!

Beast Wars is a great show, IMO the best TF's fiction on DVD. Animated's alright though.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

To begin, in this case - the 'best show ever' bit - was more of a subjective valuation (albeit thoughtlessly lacking an IMO :o ) than an attempt at objective evaluation. Don't get me wrong, I love BW dearly and it's impact on the toys and the fiction is massive (personally I doubt Animated will be so big, but it's too early to tell yet). Quite beyond Goki's list of BWs innovations is the simple fact it was one of the first ever CGI cartoon series and not only doesn't totally suck but is actually really good. David Kaye's Megatron is my all-time favourite TF character, and alongside a complete Predaking my TM2 Megs is still my favourite toy acquisition to date. The Agenda trilogy is still my favourite example of animation/writing. Etc. etc. etc. - it's all already been said. I could rave on and on about BW for ages, but the fact remains I still prefer Animated overall.

For starters, I prefer the deliberately cartoony feel of Animated over the generally realist BW approach. It's a cartoon, so I like that it's blatantly cartoony. When I first saw the general aesthetic of Animated I really didn't see how Hasbro could get any kind of show-accuracy from the various alternate modes, and yet not only do the toys have good show-accuracy but they're also highly articulated and for the most part really sturdy. In all fairness, a lot of this is possible thanks to BW and the toy design trends it started, but time has marched on and technology has improved. And I have to agree that Blitzwing is kinda disappointing, though he is the only TF I've seen who can pull a convincing Hitler salute.

Similarly, while BW explored some pretty heavy themes and that is pretty impressive, as a general rule I like my TFs as light entertainment and will turn to suitable anime if I want animated depth. Animated has retained most of the elements I liked from BW - most notably ongoing meta/subplots over a series and focussing on a smaller number of central characters rather than the G1 sell-the-toys approach (even then I like the way Animated has gone in for cameo appearances) - but is more action- than issue-focussed.

Lemme see, what else? Animated's combat sequences in particular strike me as really well thought out, and so far I've liked Animated's take on all the characters they're covered, especially Starscream. Giving the Autobots civilian-based weaponry and the 'cons 'real' weapons is a beautiful move what with the whole Autobot/civilian Decepticon/military theory of TF evolution (which I've always liked). The homages are suitably gratifying and generally done with just enough of a twist to make me grin - especially the frequent terrorising of the Witwickys:D. I also like that they're (re)introducing more fembots, especially ones who aren't just motorbikes.

Basically put, I just enjoy watching Animated more and am more inclined to get more of the toys, not that there aren't a lot of BW figures on my list. Judging by my current hoard of about 50 TFs or so and Goki's 1238 I'm a lot more of a casual fan (can you have a casual fanatic?) than he is, so he and I probably look for different things from the cartoons.:)

[springah]

Transmetal Cheetor.

I like screw-hole ass Cheetor..

[GoktimusPrime]

And I have to agree that Blitzwing is kinda disappointing, though he is the only TF I've seen who can pull a convincing Hitler salute.
Heh. :)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/acquisition_301108.jpg