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Lord_Zed
20th April 2009, 08:39 PM
While I've been anticipating the GI Joe live action movie, I have to say I've been evern more keen to see the new GI Joe Resolute Cartoon series which was promised in prieviews to be closer to the comic than the previous toons.

And now finally the first 3 webisodes have been released and in my opinon they do not dissapoint. Two classic 80's characters dead in the first episode, wiping out an whole city, No holds barred ninja stabbing and Cobra Commander is actualy scary. It certainly a long way from previous Hasbro tie in cartoons.

Episode 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DJAZCHeUXE&feature=related
Episode 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cO0A2j61P4&feature=related
Episode 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16neqpiuxSo&feature=related

Best GI Joe cartoon ever and its only 14 minutes long so far. :)

GoktimusPrime
20th April 2009, 09:25 PM
Why can't Hasbro give us something like this for Transformers? Would've been way preferable over Animated. (-_-) I would've even preferred something on the level of The Clone Wars which is more kid-oriented than what GI Joe Resolute appears to be, yet less cringeworthy than Animated (IMO).

Here's hoping Hasbro will do something like this for the next TF series now that we know that they're packing shop with Animated.

Lint
20th April 2009, 09:51 PM
haha, your comment nailed it Gok

gamblor916
21st April 2009, 07:27 AM
I quite liked this. I would prefer this over the movie, an ongoing series would be more interesting than a 90 minute movie.

GoktimusPrime
21st April 2009, 10:22 AM
haha, your comment nailed it Gok
:) If GI Joe Resolute becomes successful, all the arguments of Transformers being a kid's toyline, while true, would become moot because G.I. Joe is also a kid's toyline aimed at the same demographic market!

Just so long as the series doesn't drag on with endless chase scenes and boxhole TF continuity into some awkward dead end like turning Cybertron into a giant garden. :p (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_Machines)

Lord_Zed
21st April 2009, 07:58 PM
It's quite an unusual move for Hasbro to allow its creation, they've even made a handfull of figures for it. I suppose they were all swept with GI Joe fever during the 25th Anniversary. As has been said It does seem in every way the antithesis of Transformers Animated

Beyond being more mature, its starts of with things already established rather than rebooting the GI Joe universe entirely,and seems to draw a little from all continuities, though particularly the comics and all of them Marvel, Devils Due and even a little IDW it could almost be a continuation of any of them....almost.

Deonasis
21st April 2009, 09:53 PM
Well, I've never watched or "got" G.I. JOE before but those 3 episodes were great! I started searching youtube for the 4th episode but alas it is not there yet :( These little episodes are my cup of tea.

SilverDragon
22nd April 2009, 07:21 PM
:) If GI Joe Resolute becomes successful, all the arguments of Transformers being a kid's toyline, while true, would become moot because G.I. Joe is also a kid's toyline aimed at the same demographic market!


However, this cartoon is not, in fact, aimed at the same demographic market.

Also, I fail to understand the maturity of this cartoon, which from the comments here appears to stem mainly from buttloads of people dying and Cobra Commander being scary.

Of course, maybe I should actually watch it. :rolleyes:

Lord_Zed
22nd April 2009, 08:55 PM
However, this cartoon is not, in fact, aimed at the same demographic market.

Also, I fail to understand the maturity of this cartoon, which from the comments here appears to stem mainly from buttloads of people dying and Cobra Commander being scary.

Of course, maybe I should actually watch it. :rolleyes:

Yes watching it would probably help.:D

You are correct that the show is aimed at an older market being part of Adult Swim's lineup.

The show was rated TV-14V in the US because of its somewhat graphic depiction of violence. It's different from the cartoons of old where everyone used laserguns and the badguys just got stunned. Snake Eyes delivering killing blows and setting a trap using a dead/unconscious Cobra trooper is not the sort of thing you see in most kids cartoons.

Wether or not the story line is more mature remains to be seen, but If you want to get into a general debate about maturity and how it pertains to the world of film and television that's a whole different can of worms.

GoktimusPrime
22nd April 2009, 08:59 PM
However, this cartoon is not, in fact, aimed at the same demographic market.
Umm... yeah, that's the point. (-_-)

This cartoon demonstrates that Hasbro is willing to allow a cartoon to be made for adults based on one of their toylines which they are marketing at children. Transformers is also a Hasbro toyline which they market at children, hence I'd like to see a Transformers cartoon that is marketed at adult fans just as G.I. Joe Resolute is clearly marketed at adult Joe fans, and not primarily at the children who buy the toys.

Ever since the end of Beast Wars and Beast Machines, we've received nothing but kid-oriented cartoon series for Transformers - and the justification has long been the fact that Transformers is a brand/franchise that is primarily for children. Although Animated has recently improved, I was put off by Season 1 and parts of Season 2 due to the juvenile nature of the writing - and again, the rationale given was, "it's for kids." But G.I. Joe Resolute has now established a whole new precedent which I'm really hoping that Hasbro will follow up with Transformers.

We know that Season 3 will be the final season of Animated and that, for better or worse, Hasbro is wrapping that series up. So I'm personally hoping that Hasbro will follow up with the next TF series being more adult-focused like Resolute.

If not, I will happily settle for a half-adult focused series like Beast Wars (and like Clone Wars, although I reckon that's more of a creative decision from Lucasfilm not Hasbro). Of course, the last time Hasbro gave us a more adult-centric Transformers TV series we got Beast Machines, which ultimately failed for various reasons... but I think that following in the footsteps of G.I. Joe Resolute ought to do better than Beast Machines because it's starting a whole new fresh continuity, yet keeping true to the core nature of what makes G.I. Joe successful. Beast Machines' problem was that it was too ambitious and took Transformers to an entirely new level that wasn't popular with a lot of fans. It also suffered from some character-continuity issues (e.g. Rhinox suddenly becoming evil and Megatron suddenly being "good" for absolutely no apparent reason). But so long as Hasbro avoids those mistakes and learns from the strengths of G.I. Joe Resolute and applies it to Transformers, I don't see why it shouldn't be successful.


The show was rated TV-14V in the US because of its somewhat graphic depiction of violence. It's different from the cartoons of old where everyone used laserguns and the badguys just got stunned. Snake Eyes delivering killing blows and setting a trap using a dead/unconscious Cobra trooper is not the sort of thing you see in most kids cartoons.
It'd still pass for prime-time in Japan. Imagine if they did G.I. Joe or Transformers in a similar style as seen in the adult animé time slot (usually shown close to or after midnight) that they have there and produce stuff with the level of violence of Hellsing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaL2zCfYerI). :p (Advisory: Link points to video clip rated MA15+ by OFLC (http://www.oflc.gov.au/))

Lord_Zed
22nd April 2009, 09:48 PM
Prime time Anime is the same though, made for an older audience than kids.

If they made GI Joe as violent as Hellsing they'd run out of characters. :p

Mind you both the old Transformers comic and the GI Joe comic could be quite violent for what they were at times. How many times did Megatron or Galvatron rip an enemy's head of? And then there was things like Saw Viper puting a burst of his heavy machine gun through Docs face in GI Joe.

Not sure who's animating Resolute but unfortunately in the past when the Japanese produce Transformers and GI Joe we get the Armada Triloligy and Sigma Six.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYJNYq_uBWk&feature=related

MV75
23rd April 2009, 08:18 PM
Cool!

Gi-Joe x-over 24.

C'mon, I seriously arn't the first to see that right?

SilverDragon
26th April 2009, 01:16 PM
I watched the first episode. I'm sorry, but I cannot take any of it seriously, least of all Cobra Commander. Even though he wields frightening power, he still looks like a member of Team Rocket.


Umm... yeah, that's the point. (-_-)

This cartoon demonstrates that Hasbro is willing to allow a cartoon to be made for adults based on one of their toylines which they are marketing at children. Transformers is also a Hasbro toyline which they market at children, hence I'd like to see a Transformers cartoon that is marketed at adult fans just as G.I. Joe Resolute is clearly marketed at adult Joe fans, and not primarily at the children who buy the toys.


Yeah...one problem there: Kids don't care about GI Joe.

I think I'll let Chris McFeely take over at this point, because he has an interesting point to make regarding a Resolute-style TF show:


It's pretty unlikely we'll see anything like Resolute for Transformers, and the reason why is pretty simple: at this point in time, as has been the case for a few years now, kids don't really give a shit about G.I. Joe. After the basic failure of it's attempt to emulate Armada's success with an Anime-style reboot, it undid every change that Sigma Six wrought upon the franchise and immediately reverted to a 25th anniversary line that is, for all intents and purpose, almost entirely targeted at adult collectors. "Resolute" is playing to the only audience G.I.Joe HAS - the adult one - because they don't need to WORRY about how it's percieved by children.

Transformers, on the other hand, is still a HUGE thing with kids, and targeted at them above all else. They'd NEVER get away with making an adult-targeted cartoon for a property that is supposed to be for children, because kids will want to WATCH it, and that'll cause ALL kindsa backlash from parents. Hasbro never takes that kind of risk - it's because children matter above else that things like convention toys and stuff that will never logically be AVAILABLE to children still have to pass safety tests and all of that. Kids come first.

Even then, frankly, I don't really think I'd want to watch such a thing. While Resolute is lovely to look at and enjoyable enough, it's also terribly fanficcy, like some twentysomething reinvented G.I. Joe with OOOH VIOLENCE because it's ADULT and GRITTY. Joe, at least, is about human, military men and women fighting terrorists. Transformers is about shape-changing alien robots from space. It doesn't pull it off as well (just as, conversely, the G1 cartoon carried off silly sci-fi plots a HELL of a lot better than the Joe cartoon ever did).

(source (http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-general-discussion/229866-along-lines-gi-joe-resolute.html))

GoktimusPrime
26th April 2009, 01:50 PM
While I respect McFeely as a very knowledgeable fan, I think his appraisal is somewhat of a hyperbole. G.I. Joe, as a toy franchise, is still being marketed at kids. The toys are still being sold in toy stores and department stores, not collector stores unlike other toys marketed directly at adult collectors like DC Direct, Transformers Sport & Music Label etc. I think there is possibly some truth in that G.I. Joe may have a larger adult fan base, but so would Star Wars. I don't know enough about G.I. Joe or have ever seen any statistics to tell what the child:adult fandom ratio would be - but I would be surprised if the G.I. Joe fandom was completely comprised of adults.

Having said that, Feely does have a point in saying that Transformers does still have a massive child fanbase. And historically Transformers didn't do so well when it became too adult (re: Beast Machines). Hence why I said that the ideal solution would be some kind of balance like we had with Beast Wars - and that we've seen in a lot of other franchises like Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Batman: The Brave and the Bold etc. It is possible to have Transformers simultaneously appeal to both children and adults if they try.

roller
26th April 2009, 02:37 PM
. It also suffered from some character-continuity issues (e.g. Rhinox suddenly becoming evil and Megatron suddenly being "good" for absolutely no apparent reason). .



Maybe something happened to Megatron in the intervening time of falling off the shuttle and the maximals showing up.

As for Rhinox, maybe he was reprogrammed again or just got sick and tired of being heroic, people and bots change

loophole
26th April 2009, 03:41 PM
i just watched the first 8 pats of this and it was pretty good i wouldnt however say is uber awesome or anything but then again ive never really been a fan of Joe either.

GoktimusPrime
26th April 2009, 07:40 PM
Maybe something happened to Megatron in the intervening time of falling off the shuttle and the maximals showing up.
Yeah like what? This was never explained.


As for Rhinox, maybe he was reprogrammed again or just got sick and tired of being heroic, people and bots change
Rhinox turned to evil after his Vehicon reprogramming had been lifted! He was himself again but had become an entirely different character from what he'd used to be for no apparent reason.

Yes, characters change - but a well written story explains how and why the change occurs. Change is absolutely essential for characters in a story because it's the change in the characters that drive the story. Stories that lack character development often have very shallow plots - this is my criticism of TF continuities like the G1 cartoon and some characters in Transformers Animated during Season 1 and parts of Season 2 (e.g.: the Dinobots).

The problem with the changes made to Rhinox and Megatron is that they're contrary to the development that was made to these characters in Beast Wars. If you're going to do that, then there needs to be exposition as to why you've drastically changed these characters. BM Silverbolt is an example of a character whose BW to BM personality change was better explained -- the former "boy scout dork" and romantic chivalrous "knight in shining armour" had been psychologically tormented and deeply violated under his Vehicon reprogramming. Even with the reprogramming lifted, the emotional scars could never heal and burned deep... driving him to become the "Dark Knight" ... the emo thing was totally overdone, but at least how he arrived to that state was explained. It wasn't as if he just woke up one morning and suddenly felt like being a bad bottom.

Blackarachnia's transition from Predacon to Maximal in Beast Wars was also better explained through her relationship with Silverbolt. And there's tonnes of other examples from Transformers and other literature such as Star Wars (e.g.: Anakin Skywalker), The Lord of the Rings (e.g.: Frodo Baggins) et al.

BM Megatron and Rhinox's personality changes were as if someone had just waved a magic wand and said, "now you're good, now you're evil!" :o I mean, if you need to create a gratuitous plot device to elicit a quick and convenient personality change, then just bloody make one! e.g.: reprogramming, virus, hate plague, the One Ring, red Kryptonite etc etc. It makes a lot more sense than... ya know... no explanation at all! ;)

Lord_Zed
26th April 2009, 09:23 PM
Well certainly we can see why Anakin went to the Darkside more clearly than Rihnox, but I still think he made the jump from being morally conflicted to child killing pretty quickly.

Getting back to the topic of this thread having watched all 11 mini-episodes of GI Joe Resolute I agree with Loophole's opinon of it being pretty good, but not absolutely spectacular.

The main think I like about Resolute though is that its a good anniversary hommage to GI Joe, they took elements of every GI Joe series to date, the comics both Marvel, Devils Due and IDW as well as the original toons, and Sigma Six.

I'd still like to see a series, even if there is no Major Blood and Road Block is a badass.

Overall not as great as the various comic incarnations but it is still the best GI Joe Toon ever IMO. Although that has a lot to do with all the previous toons sucking.

liegeprime
26th April 2009, 10:14 PM
Hmmm the art reminds me of erm Ghost in a shell.... Naruto and other Japanese type toons. NOt your common kiddy american toons hehehehe. NOT for kids. I like it!!! Finally the brutality and realism of terrorissssssm yessssss. Though CC may be sinister, still prefer the old voice, call me sentimental.

GoktimusPrime
27th April 2009, 09:29 AM
the art reminds me of erm Ghost in a shell.... Naruto and other Japanese type toons.
+1. Very good quality animé-esque animation.

Lint
27th April 2009, 12:59 PM
Final ep was kinda underwhelming. The inability of scores of minions to land a single bullet on exposed targets finally got to me in this episode :p

Lord_Zed
27th April 2009, 07:13 PM
Final ep was kinda underwhelming. The inability of scores of minions to land a single bullet on exposed targets finally got to me in this episode :p

Yep just like Stomtroopers.

But that’s in keeping with the rule of henchmen and minions which states that the accuracy of minions is inversely proportional to their numbers.:D

bruticus
29th April 2009, 05:16 PM
Yep just like Stomtroopers.

But that’s in keeping with the rule of henchmen and minions which states that the accuracy of minions is inversely proportional to their numbers.:D

That sounds logical. If there are heaps of soldiers/minions around, then perhaps they are afraid to accidentally shoot their own bretheren who are running around in front of them, thus hesitating and delivering inaccurate shots... or maybe some of the guys in front were setting aim for a wicked headshot but some noob at the back shot him with friendly fire? :p

kup
1st May 2009, 11:56 AM
I also found the Cobra troopers's bad aim somewhat distracting and out of place in the more serious and realistic world Resolute is trying to portray. At least one bullet out of thousands did hit Duke ;)

bruticus
1st May 2009, 04:06 PM
the fight squences between snake eyes and storm shadow are fricken wicked!!!
oh yes, i think i will stop that sword with my bare palm....
"..oooh.. Fiddle-dee-dee! That will require a tetanus shot. But I'm not going to swear. But I am going to KICK THIS DOG HOUSE DOWN!!!..."

Lord_Zed
1st May 2009, 11:04 PM
the fight squences between snake eyes and storm shadow are fricken wicked!!!
oh yes, i think i will stop that sword with my bare palm....
"..oooh.. Fiddle-dee-dee! That will require a tetanus shot. But I'm not going to swear. But I am going to KICK THIS DOG HOUSE DOWN!!!..."

The Storm Shadow vs Snake Eyes fight was indeed awesome, though it got a little bit Dragon ball Z at the end there.

Getting stabbed through the palm seems to be a recurring theme in Gi joe. Snake Eyes, Slice, Stalker and Cobra Commander have all caught pieces of metal in their hands. Ouch!

FFN
2nd May 2009, 08:19 AM
While I respect McFeely as a very knowledgeable fan, I think his appraisal is somewhat of a hyperbole. G.I. Joe, as a toy franchise, is still being marketed at kids. The toys are still being sold in toy stores and department stores, not collector stores unlike other toys marketed directly at adult collectors like DC Direct, Transformers Sport & Music Label etc. I think there is possibly some truth in that G.I. Joe may have a larger adult fan base, but so would Star Wars. I don't know enough about G.I. Joe or have ever seen any statistics to tell what the child:adult fandom ratio would be - but I would be surprised if the G.I. Joe fandom was completely comprised of adults.

Having said that, Feely does have a point in saying that Transformers does still have a massive child fanbase. And historically Transformers didn't do so well when it became too adult (re: Beast Machines). Hence why I said that the ideal solution would be some kind of balance like we had with Beast Wars - and that we've seen in a lot of other franchises like Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Batman: The Brave and the Bold etc. It is possible to have Transformers simultaneously appeal to both children and adults if they try. Hasbro isn't a small collector toy company, so they barely sell directly to collectors or through collector chains regardless of the item, because they prefer to deal in large volumes to major retailers. They sell to retailers, then they let the retailers worry about how to flog them. The only time they bother doing "direct to collector" nonsense is when it's a convention or HTS exclusive or they can't find a brick & mortar retailer willing to carry the product (for example, the entire GI Joe DTC line). Last I saw, they don't market the 25th Anniversary line to kids. In fact, the movie line will be the first kid-marketing GI Joe line since Sigma 6.

GI Joe is much more dependent on their adult collectors than Transformers, largely why much of GI Joe fiction is comic books rather than kids cartoons.

And last I checked Animated was pretty damn well received among kids and adults.

kup
2nd May 2009, 08:40 AM
Hasbro isn't a small collector toy company, so they barely sell directly to collectors or through collector chains regardless of the item, because they prefer to deal in large volumes to major retailers. They sell to retailers, then they let the retailers worry about how to flog them. The only time they bother doing "direct to collector" nonsense is when it's a convention or HTS exclusive or they can't find a brick & mortar retailer willing to carry the product (for example, the entire GI Joe DTC line). Last I saw, they don't market the 25th Anniversary line to kids. In fact, the movie line will be the first kid-marketing GI Joe line since Sigma 6.

GI Joe is much more dependent on their adult collectors than Transformers, largely why much of GI Joe fiction is comic books rather than kids cartoons.

And last I checked Animated was pretty damn well received among kids and adults.


http://shadowstitch.com/images/temp/serious_UM.jpg

Lint
2nd May 2009, 10:41 AM
^lawl, cracks me up everytime

Lord_Zed
2nd May 2009, 01:38 PM
Hasbro isn't a small collector toy company, so they barely sell directly to collectors or through collector chains regardless of the item, because they prefer to deal in large volumes to major retailers. They sell to retailers, then they let the retailers worry about how to flog them. The only time they bother doing "direct to collector" nonsense is when it's a convention or HTS exclusive or they can't find a brick & mortar retailer willing to carry the product (for example, the entire GI Joe DTC line). Last I saw, they don't market the 25th Anniversary line to kids. In fact, the movie line will be the first kid-marketing GI Joe line since Sigma 6.

GI Joe is much more dependent on their adult collectors than Transformers, largely why much of GI Joe fiction is comic books rather than kids cartoons.

And last I checked Animated was pretty damn well received among kids and adults.

This WOULD explain why they did such a damn god job on the Joe 25th lines packaging and generaly on the ball choice of characters and repaints.

The comming Joe Movie line seems to be more like modern TF lines trying to stradle the older and younger market.

loophole
2nd May 2009, 08:06 PM
lol those cobra flunkies shoot like Stormtroopers they cant even hit 2 people standing still LMAO

Vector Sigma 13
3rd May 2009, 08:21 AM
It is possible to have Transformers simultaneously appeal to both children and adults if they try.


They already are arent they? Thats why we are here?:)

Hasbro are running a business that has to be profitable:

Adult markets must be a hit and miss affair in some respects. They have to produce a superior quality product and at a higher cost and hope to hell they can sell it.

By the way i was never into GIJoe but this looks like its worth having a look at!

GoktimusPrime
4th May 2009, 05:36 PM
They already are arent they? Thats why we are here?
I meant in terms of fiction. We already have it in the comics, but we haven't had it in a TV series since Beast Wars & Beast Machines. All TF cartoons since then have been primarily written for children.

I'd love to see an animated mini-series written by perhaps Simon Furman, Larry DiTillio and/or Bob Forward. An animated mini-series based on or inspired by Infiltration/Devastation would be pretty cool IMO.

kup
4th May 2009, 06:31 PM
I meant in terms of fiction. We already have it in the comics, but we haven't had it in a TV series since Beast Wars & Beast Machines. All TF cartoons since then have been primarily written for children.

I'd love to see an animated mini-series written by perhaps Simon Furman, Larry DiTillio and/or Bob Forward. An animated mini-series based on or inspired by Infiltration/Devastation would be pretty cool IMO.

I don't agree. Animated has already set itself up as a very kiddy cartoon with an equally kiddy universe down to its core including character/toy designs (Mario Huffer). Having something as serious as Infiltration/Devastation would not suit the design style at all.

If a new series which is more appealing to kids and adults alike should arise, Animated needs to end, at least as a cartoon.

Vector Sigma 13
4th May 2009, 06:57 PM
I cant see how they could do anything to make Animated more suitable for adults. Its designed for kids!

Maybe there is a reason there hasnt been anything similar to Beast Wars and Beast Machines- It doesnt make enough money/ doesnt have the following that the kids stuff does/did?

I enjoy the comic adult orientated universe very much but it just hard to imagine that there will be any Transformers prodominantly for the older age bracket.

Maybe they might do it in Japan? Seems to be more of a market for more mature content over there.

GoktimusPrime
4th May 2009, 07:57 PM
I said animated mini-series, not Animated mini-series. :/ It's what would be referred to as an OVA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_video_animation) series in animé terms. It's far too late to change Animated now - that horse has already well and truly bolted. Tbh, I think Animated writers are trying to end the series well given what they already established in Seasons 1 and 2. The ending of Animated ought to be more well received than say the ending of Beast Machines! ;p


Maybe there is a reason there hasnt been anything similar to Beast Wars and Beast Machines- It doesnt make enough money/ doesnt have the following that the kids stuff does/did?
Beast Wars is the Transformers equivalent of the Renaissance! If you'll recall, by 1995 Transformers was a nearly dead franchise. G1 had flopped by 1993 and HasTak's attempt to resuscitate the line with "Transformers Generation 2" had effectively failed. G2 did give us some good toys with great engineering and giving birth to fully articulated robot modes, but it was toward the end of the line - by then it was too little too late. When Beast Wars rocked along the scene in 1996 it breathed new life into Transformers. The line was so popular that Hasbro commissioned Mainframe Entertainment to make the cartoon series; a series which won an Emmy Award (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmy_Award) for its 2nd season - the only Transformers series to have won an Emmy to date afaik. The series was popular among both kids and adults. It had plenty of action and light-hearted humour to for the kids, and a serious story arc and adult humour (including sexual innuendo) for adults. The story itself existed within the same overall continuity as G1 and G2, and picked up where G2 finished, and even served to further expand upon (and arguably enhance) the original G1/G2 lore.

And the toy line wasn't cancelled because it wasn't selling well - it was cancelled because Hasbro wanted to take the line in a different direction... that direction being Beast Machines - and we know how that turned out. ;)

But Beast Wars proved that a TV series written for both kids and adults can work. A lot of other cartoon-toy franchises continue to demonstrate this such as Batman: The Brave and the Bold, Star Wars Clone Wars (also a Hasbro toy line), Spiderman et al. And one reason why a lot of G1 fans didn't enjoy the post-movie G1 episodes as much as the pre-movie eps is because in some ways, the maturity of the show had declined somewhat. Most fans like Buster/Spike and Bumblebee -- clearly that relationship continues to endure in the movie franchise with Sam and Bumblebee... yet most fans loathe Daniel and Wheelie (as illustrated in Trannies (http://web.me.com/rjung/) results).

Vector Sigma 13
4th May 2009, 08:11 PM
Ahhh the little "a" gets me every time...lol

I cant recall anything much from those years because i was too busy being a stupid teen and getting wasted most of the time. You could call it my "gap" years.

Thanks for the heads up just the same, i really had no idea that the "animal Transformers" were so popular. You know i swore id never own one but i do now...

and will probably own more!

You know growing up with G1 in your blood can make it hard to accept "robots in animal disguises" or anything else for that matter.

Eh hang on isnt thi a GI JOE thread?:confused:

GoktimusPrime
4th May 2009, 09:59 PM
Bloody Transfans! :p

Okay, so I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to G.I. Joe so here's some noob questions...
RE: Billy, Cobra Commander's son.
1. Who was his mother? (don't say Midichlorians!)
2. Why does he have an eyepatch?
3. I kinda remember him joining the Joes. How did that work out?

kup
4th May 2009, 10:12 PM
Ahhh the little "a" gets me every time...lol

I cant recall anything much from those years because i was too busy being a stupid teen and getting wasted most of the time. You could call it my "gap" years.

Thanks for the heads up just the same, i really had no idea that the "animal Transformers" were so popular. You know i swore id never own one but i do now...

and will probably own more!

You know growing up with G1 in your blood can make it hard to accept "robots in animal disguises" or anything else for that matter.

Eh hang on isnt thi a GI JOE thread?:confused:

A lot of G1 only fans have a hard time realizing that there is actually very little concept wise in Beast Wars that wasn't already explored in some way in G1. Beast Wars is a true continuation of G1 as you can see many of its concepts reappearing and enhanced in BW.

Beast modes?
G1 had pioneered it (Dinobots, Predacons, etc)

Organic/partially organic Beast modes?
G1 also pioneered it. 'Season 1' Beast modes are pretty much an evolution of the G1 Pretender shell and even so, some G1 characters had 'realistic' surfaces such as Fangry's Fuzor type alt mode.

Robotic Beast Modes? Again something similarly seen in G1.

Sparks? called Fusion cores in G1.

One could go on and on. Beast Wars was a true continuation of G1 and that contributes to its greatness as it managed to retroactively enhance G1 with its own mythos and concepts.

liegeprime
5th May 2009, 08:12 AM
Bloody Transfans! :p

Okay, so I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to G.I. Joe so here's some noob questions...
RE: Billy, Cobra Commander's son.
1. Who was his mother? (don't say Midichlorians!)
2. Why does he have an eyepatch?
3. I kinda remember him joining the Joes. How did that work out?

IM into joes but not much, AFAIK Billy is dead, died in the hands of his own father. MOther remains unknown, prolly killed hereself when she learned who CC really was. The eyepatch is because he got injured when he was trying to escape from Cobra

GoktimusPrime
5th May 2009, 11:36 AM
kup: Don't forget that the Maximal/Predacon Upgrade is an evolution of Micromaster technology from G1 - when Transformers reduced themselves in size in order to conserve fuel. Hence why Beast Wars Megatron once referred to the Autobots and Decepticons as "archaic Energon guzzlers." ;)


IM into joes but not much,
I thought you were a bit of a GI Joe collector?


AFAIK Billy is dead, died in the hands of his own father. MOther remains unknown, prolly killed hereself when she learned who CC really was. The eyepatch is because he got injured when he was trying to escape from Cobra
*sniff* Poor Billy. :( Maybe he hooked up with the Baroness or Zarana... or perhaps Billy was a clone made of Cobra Commander made when his followers thought he was dead. And Cobra Commander wanted Billy to follow his footsteps, but was disappointed that Billy just wanted to become a vet at a petting zoo. :p

"An evil petting zoo?" - Dr. Evil (Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery)

liegeprime
5th May 2009, 12:04 PM
I thought you were a bit of a GI Joe collector?



I am, mostly Cobra figures. I only purchase Joes because they were sold in a bag with the Cobra's.

Lord_Zed
5th May 2009, 12:25 PM
Bloody Transfans! :p

Okay, so I'm pretty much a noob when it comes to G.I. Joe so here's some noob questions...
RE: Billy, Cobra Commander's son.
1. Who was his mother? (don't say Midichlorians!)
2. Why does he have an eyepatch?
3. I kinda remember him joining the Joes. How did that work out?

As quickly as I can answer this before someone ctatches me not working. :)

1. Billy's mothers name is not known, however she appeared in the comic. CC left Billy's Mother when he created Cobra and took Billy with him. Many years later she came looking for Billy and put a gun to Jinx's head in an attempt to get her to reveal Billy's location. She found Billy while he was training under the then reformed Storm Shadow. For a while Billy lived "a normal life" with his mother while studying. I don't recall her ever being named but she was not depectied as being evil like CC, however she was somewaht aware of Cobra Commanders dubious activities.

2. Billy lost his eye when he returned to Springfield to confront Cobra Commander. Billy was hitchhiking in a station wagon with a drunk driver and Ripcords Girlfriend Candy when they run affoul of Scrap Iron and Firefly who were chasing down Storm Shadows Uncle the Soft Master. Although the Soft Master sacraficed himself to save Billy and co it proved futile as Scrap iron fired his second missile at the station wagon. Billy was later found to have survived but his eye and left leg were lost.

3. Billy frequently was apprentice to Storm Shadow after Storm Shadow left Cobra, he helped Storm Shadow and Jinx at times but would never completely bretray his father. He only joined the Joes officaly in the Devils Due series and went on one mission as a JOE in which Cobra Commander shot him. He did survive but did'nt appear till much later no longer a Joe.

kup
5th May 2009, 01:24 PM
kup: Don't forget that the Maximal/Predacon Upgrade is an evolution of Micromaster technology from G1 - when Transformers reduced themselves in size in order to conserve fuel. Hence why Beast Wars Megatron once referred to the Autobots and Decepticons as "archaic Energon guzzlers." ;)


That too :)

You get more out of Beast Wars if you know your G1 and it works retrospectively too!

Vector Sigma 13
5th May 2009, 07:30 PM
A lot of G1 only fans have a hard time realizing that there is actually very little concept wise in Beast Wars that wasn't already explored in some way in G1. Beast Wars is a true continuation of G1 as you can see many of its concepts reappearing and enhanced in BW.

Beast modes?
G1 had pioneered it (Dinobots, Predacons, etc)

Organic/partially organic Beast modes?
G1 also pioneered it. 'Season 1' Beast modes are pretty much an evolution of the G1 Pretender shell and even so, some G1 characters had 'realistic' surfaces such as Fangry's Fuzor type alt mode.

Robotic Beast Modes? Again something similarly seen in G1.

Sparks? called Fusion cores in G1.

One could go on and on. Beast Wars was a true continuation of G1 and that contributes to its greatness as it managed to retroactively enhance G1 with its own mythos and concepts.


You know ive spent all day thinking about this conversation (had nothing better to do) and i see where your coming from- You know before you mentioned it i hadnt even made the predacon/predaking - Beast wars/Predacon connection... Duh!

Never even considered pretenders as precursor to an animal styled pretender shell.

Geez theres a lot of gaps here that could make great new story lines!

Anyway then it dawned on me that the reason i couldnt get into Beast wars was because the altmodes were way to real! Previous incarnations (G1 bots) were robots that transformed into creatures that looked like metal animals. Beast wars took it a step further and had the bots transform into animals that actually looked like real animals. I really liked the animal/dinosaur/insect etc replica type style. Can you see where im coming from?

Its just my personal thing and i dont want to give the impression that im bagging it. Far from it.

GoktimusPrime
5th May 2009, 10:09 PM
Anyway then it dawned on me that the reason i couldnt get into Beast wars was because the altmodes were way to real!
I got 3 words for ya mate: Robots In Disguise! :) Cheetor's beast mode looks like a realistic cheetah, whereas G1 Ravage's jaguar mode ain't foolin' anyone! :D I'm not trying to dis' your opinion, but in case you've ever wondered how the heck people can like realistic animal modes, there's a reason. (:

kup
6th May 2009, 09:39 AM
Beast Wars also had plenty of robotic beast modes in Transmetals with chromed parts being a signature element of the sub-line.

Also Beast Wars characters are not Cyborgs, they are still robots with synthetic organic shells around them that split up in armor like fashion in robot mode.

They only became Cyborg type things in Beast Machines and this aspect was also a partial factor to its overall lack of appeal with fans.

Lord_Zed
6th May 2009, 12:13 PM
But what about Billy!!!???? :D

kup
6th May 2009, 01:27 PM
But what about Billy!!!???? :D

Who? this guy?

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/9/93/BlasterUS17.jpg

:p

Lord_Zed
6th May 2009, 06:35 PM
Who? this guy?

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/9/93/BlasterUS17.jpg

:p

Nononono!

That's not Billy, I think you mean the Joe below. :D

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/zedkaiser/Gifs/gijoe_blaster.jpg

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd31/zedkaiser/Gifs/blaster.jpg

GoktimusPrime
7th May 2009, 08:24 AM
kup was making a reference to the crappy StarTV dubs of The Headmasters where Blaster is called "Billy." :p :D Forza Irresistibile!!

Lord_Zed
7th May 2009, 09:53 PM
kup was making a reference to the crappy StarTV dubs of The Headmasters where Blaster is called "Billy." :p :D Forza Irresistibile!!

Oh I know, Ninja consultant indeed!

One good turn deserves another though. :)

kup
7th May 2009, 10:19 PM
Ninja Consultant is actually a cool title.

What's your profession? I am a Ninja Consultant.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/images/misc/Image/office-ninja-edit.jpg

Lord_Zed
7th May 2009, 11:28 PM
Sure but you can't beat the resepect that comes with being a qualified Doctor, like Doctor McNinja.

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsassorted/dr_mcninja.jpg

http://drmcninja.com/index.html

GoktimusPrime
8th May 2009, 09:19 AM
How the hell did they get that? Sixshot's function in Japanese is 忍者参謀 (Ninjasanbou) which means "Ninja Staff" as in like a staff officer in the army. I'd translate it as "Ninja officer" or just "Ninja" and explain the more literal translation in liner notes (or sub-subtitles).

Omega Supreme
11th May 2009, 06:26 AM
Got a chance to watch Resolute from start to finish yesterday, I really enjoyed it and hope they decide to make more of it.

roller
16th May 2009, 09:20 PM
i went to the movies the other day

saw a cardboard Christopher eccleston

looked so good i wanted to pinch it

Deceptic_Optic
12th June 2009, 01:27 PM
GI JOE might muggs spotted on yesterday at myers roselands they have cobra commander, duke, destro

Deceptic_Optic
22nd June 2009, 02:33 PM
snake eyes and storm shadow cant wait until they reach my finger tips!