Counting this ROTF Set???

[Ironhide63]

Ok, you might'nt get what Im asking by the title but hopefully you've came to help me anyway. If you bought the Supreme class Devastator...would that be 6 transformers added to your collection, or 7, including devastator himself?. Or none because they...dont transform...in which case it would be 1? but devastator doesnt transform...trying to figure this out so plz respond.

[Sky Shadow]

Ok, you might'nt get what Im asking by the title but hopefully you've came to help me anyway. If you bought the Supreme class Devastator...would that be 6 transformers added to your collection, or 7, including devastator himself?. Or none because they...dont transform...in which case it would be 1? but devastator doesnt transform...trying to figure this out so plz respond.

I would count it as one. He's like Magmatron or Flywheels or Tidal Wave or Energon Optimus Prime - non-transforming components that combine into a robot mode.

[griffin]

Until the movie is released, please keep movie related topics in the Movie section, even if it just a question. And make sure you don't have any names in the topic title.
Thanks.

[Jetfire]

I would say 6, Devastator is just the sum of parts

[Gutsman Heavy]

I would say 6, Devastator is just the sum of parts

agree, even if there are no bot modes, they are still their own characters.

[dirge]

I'd say one. On their own the components don't transform into anything. Mind you, I won't be getting it anyway.

[Krayt]

I wondered the same thing wigh a Combiner Giftset.... I grew up with individuals, so 5 or so figures, but is the giftset the complete figure or the individuals????

Myslef, seeming we are getting most, if not all, as individuals, i think i'll class Devvy as 1..... but only in this special case.

Think of it as a voltron lion set.... Most of the time it's only available as a set, and it's not like there was ever an episode that just followed the Blue lion (ok..... that might get me yelled at, but i haven't seen the ENTIRE series... so just a guess)

[Deceptic_Optic]

Ok, you might'nt get what Im asking by the title but hopefully you've came to help me anyway. If you bought the Supreme class Devastator...would that be 6 transformers added to your collection, or 7, including devastator himself?. Or none because they...dont transform...in which case it would be 1? but devastator doesnt transform...trying to figure this out so plz respond.

I am very curios about what toys uve got? Got any images?

[GoktimusPrime]

Interesting question.

As far as the Universal Counting Method (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=217) is concerned...

Although Article04 states:

Only the component members of a gestalt team count.
I'd say that this is negated by Article05 and Article17.

Article05 states;

Individual combiner robots count separately but multi-in-1 components do not.
Devastator's individual parts are like "multi-in-1 components," much like say the two halves of the Duocons or say Skysaur, Landsaur and Seasaur - the three individual components of Magmatron. Furthermore they lack robot modes.

Furthermore, Article17 states:

All transforming movie Transformers count but non-transforming movie Transformers do not.
While these vehicles are able to combine, I'd say that they do not fall under the conventional definition of "transform" as far as Transformers action figures are concerned.

I might bring up this discussion again in the UCM Discussion thread after RotF has come out. But for now I'm just keeping it in this section for spoiler reasons. :)

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Good question, they still do transform but they're sold more as components of a single character...hmm. Also they're sold as a set without the individual components available separately (as Dev components), unlike the G1 gestalts (excluding duocons etc).
The crux of it comes down to whether you're counting them as toys or characters...if it's toys then it'd be 6, if characters I'd go with 1 as the characters themselves are subsumed under the Devastator whole. I'm inclined towards 1 myself, but that's JMO.

On a related topic, how about the Ice-cream twins?

[Zahhak]

Another reason why I'd count Devs as only one toy..would anyone wan't a single part of the combiner? you know many of us want single gesalt team members e.g. Swindle, but I can't imagine I'd go searching ebay for Devs left arm unless I bought him and lost/broke it.


On a related topic, how about the Ice-cream twins?
hmm while they have bot modes each they only have one combined form, so I'd say it falls under just one. Also it kinda falls under what I said above in that no one would really want half the set,
Despite the fact they are disticatly two characters, they only transfrom together...That being said what if in the movie we see one of the halves use their alt mode seperatly....e.g. the front end drvies round for a bit by itself.

That being said is it even possiable to transform the twins apart?

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

"Not to worry, we are still flying half a ship." - Obi-Wan Kenobi.:D

[GoktimusPrime]

Another reason why I'd count Devs as only one toy..would anyone wan't a single part of the combiner? you know many of us want single gesalt team members e.g. Swindle, but I can't imagine I'd go searching ebay for Devs left arm unless I bought him and lost/broke it.
Precisely. And that's what makes them count more as "multi-in-1 components" rather than actual meaningful Transformers action figures.

Toywise, Movie Devastator is like the next level up from toys like the Duocons and Magmatron, where the robot transforms into multiple alt modes. I wouldn't count Battletrap as 2 nor would I count Magmatron as 3; and under the Universal Counting Method, both Battletrap and Magmatron count as 1 Transformer each. So under that rationale, I'd say that Movie Devastator would count as 1 Transformer too.

As you said, nobody would want any of these "Constructicons" sold individually, whereas fully transformable gestalt Transformers can be sold individually, even if they can't combine. The 1992 G1 (European/Australasian) Constructicons, Motorvators and Autobot Rescue Squad demonstrate this.

[kup]

I'd say one too.

We don't count the pieces of Duocons, Magmatron and other toys with non transforming pieces as separate TFs.

However I am sure if this goes to a public poll, people will want the individual parts to count just so they can increase their collection count which many fans seem obsessed with.

[Sky Shadow]

"Not to worry, we are still flying half a ship." - Obi-Wan Kenobi.:D

"Seeing as how they would have detonated four quarters, I think it was a good choice." - Han Solo.

Oh... I mean, Springer. :p

[GoktimusPrime]

"Ham Salad: Intergalactic Wise-Guy."
- Hardware Wars

;)

Tidalwave is another example of a multi-in-1-former. I don't think many people would count him as 3 Transformers (if so it would only be fleeting - badaboom TISH! :D)

[Bartrim]

What about the fact the individual components of Devs are seperate characters? I guess it depends on whether you look at it as a toy or a character

[MV75]

^ exactly. They all have their own names, I'd count them seperately like you would for say, menasor.

But on the other hand, their sole purpose is to just form into devastator, as it's even sold that way already combined. I'd make a special exemption to the counting rules for toys such as this that they are just one. Because in comparison to a giftset of menasor, they are packed as individuals with their only transforming purpose to not only be menasor.

And as for the icecream truck, it's a grey area, I'd count it as two unless the icecream truck mode has it's own name.

[Sky Shadow]

What about the fact the individual components of Devs are seperate characters? I guess it depends on whether you look at it as a toy or a character

Landsaur, Seasaur, Skysaur, Fire-1, Copter-2, Digger-3 and Submarine-4 are all similar non-transforming gestalt components that have names. Still, I wouldn't say Magmatron is three Transformers or that Energon Optimus Prime is five Transformers.

[Bartrim]

Landsaur, Seasaur, Skysaur, Fire-1, Copter-2, Digger-3 and Submarine-4 are all similar non-transforming gestalt components that have names. Still, I wouldn't say Magmatron is three Transformers or that Energon Optimus Prime is five Transformers.

Yeah but being a remote object that has a name and being a seperate character are two totally seperate things.

[GoktimusPrime]

But on the other hand, their sole purpose is to just form into devastator, as it's even sold that way already combined. I'd make a special exemption to the counting rules for toys such as this that they are just one. Because in comparison to a giftset of menasor, they are packed as individuals with their only transforming purpose to not only be menasor.
Exactly. Even if you got a gestalt as a single set, the individual toys can function as individual Transformer action figures. e.g.: Breakdown still transforms from a robot to a Lamborghini so you can still play with him as a Transformer in his own right even if you don't own any of the other Stunticons. For most of us this was how we collected gestalts in G1 because we didn't get the gift sets here.

Even other gestalts which are sold exclusively in gift sets can count individually because each Transformer works as a separate toy. Take Tripredacus for example - although they were only ever sold together, you can still play with Cicadacon, Ram Horn and Sea Clamp as autonomous Transformers. If you obtained say Ram Horn on his own at a market then you'd still have a Transformer in its own right - transforms from robot to beetle.

As I said before, there have been examples of G1 gestalts sold individually and removed of their ability to combine, and they still work as Transformers (e.g.: 1992 (Australasian/European) Constructicons (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Devastator_(G1)#Trivia), Motorvators (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Motorvator), Rescue Force (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Rescue_Force) etc.).

With these Constructicons, ask yourself this: would you buy one individually? I wouldn't. I think for most (all?) of us it'd be either all or nothing.


What about the fact the individual components of Devs are seperate characters? I guess it depends on whether you look at it as a toy or a character
I think when it comes to counting toys, most collectors look at them as toys first, characters second. This is reflected by the fact that poll results indicate that most collectors don't count Nebulans or Action Master partners separately (UCM Article02) despite the fact that they are separate characters.

[jaydisc]

According to my R.E.C.T.U.M., it would count as one.

[dirge]

According to my R.E.C.T.U.M.

You're talking out of your a$$ again?

(yeah, I know... but you have to admit, an acronym like that will always be the butt of jokes)

[Zahhak]

You're talking out of your a$$ again?

(yeah, I know... but you have to admit, an acronym like that will always be the butt of jokes)

I can't tell whats worse, the calliabre of the jokes...or the fact I laughed :(