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GoktimusPrime
24th June 2009, 09:43 AM
MASSIVE ROTF PLOT SPOILER


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You were warned










When Optimus Prime was killed - at that moment (and not later on), did you think they would bring him back by the end of the film or were you unsure?

When I saw Prime die I thought to myself that I would be very surprised if he's not ressurected by the end of the film (or in a sequel) because we all know what happened when they killed Prime in 1986. ;)

Saintly
24th June 2009, 10:00 AM
I was actually unsure but the back of my mind, there's another 90 minutes (or so) to go and I thought who is going to carry out the fight against the Fallen??

1AZRAEL1
24th June 2009, 10:08 AM
I had it in my mind, because like you said, who was going to fight the fallen?

Bloody awesome movie though.

Now here is the big question,

Did anyone else almost, or did cry when it happened?

I know I was on the verge :o

Saintly
24th June 2009, 10:14 AM
Did anyone else almost, or did cry when it happened?

I know I was on the verge :o

yep, on the verge... but i almost literally wet my pants on a couple of scenes

i_amtrunks
24th June 2009, 10:35 AM
I knew he would be revived the second he was killed. It was bleeding obvious.

Was not impressed by the way the Armed Forces treated his body, just dumping it at the Base. At least he got some parachutes when he was dropped over Egypt/Jordan.

Sky Shadow
24th June 2009, 10:39 AM
I had no doubt for even a microsecond that Optimus was going to be brought back later and I didn't care that he was dead. (And his inevitable resurrection was made even more obvious by a variety of ROTF 'toy spoilers' [things his ROTF toy can do that he hadn't yet done when he died.]) His death was weak - this incarnation of Optimus has done little to make the audience care about him and the only things that really justify the efforts that everyone goes to to bring him back are:

a.) He's the biggest Autobot.
b.) Being a Prime is apparently 'special'... for some magic MacGuffiny reason and
c.) Presumably all the soldiers respect and are in awe of Optimus from their two years of working with him between the films.

I was leagues sadder about Jetfire's tragic sacrifice. At least Jetfire actually got developed enough for me to care about him. (I liked it that this movie made the designation of 'Seekers' make sense for the first time.)

Deceptic_Optic
24th June 2009, 11:21 AM
Because the fact that i havent seen jetfire and optimus combine yet, so i thought that he will be ressurected. and yes i kinda felt sad when he got killed and nope *alright just say yes* and yes i did almost cry hehehe.

liegeprime
24th June 2009, 12:30 PM
Well thankfully Im not a spoiler avoider :p. Prime Dying is so passe already cant they think of anything else more... sigh its as precdictable as Autobots being good and Decepticons, bad... except in Shattered Glass universe:D:p

Lord_Zed
24th June 2009, 12:50 PM
I personaly think Primes death was handeled really well and for a moment I was lost in the moment and shocked an suprised. Sure I knew he'd be back some day but I wasn't sure it would be this movie for a moment. About 5 minutes later I recalled the Jetfire Prime combination and knew he'd be back by the end of the movie.

But for the average movie goer who isn't privy to such knowledge I think the scene worked well. The forrest battle is my favourte.

Crab Megs claw blast rocks!

i_amtrunks
24th June 2009, 01:33 PM
But for the average movie goer who isn't privy to such knowledge I think the scene worked well. The forrest battle is my favourte.

Crab Megs claw blast rocks!

Prime's meat hooks were awesome in that fight.

Still would have been nice to know where the hell the Blackout clone came from.
I get that they probably wanted to re-use the cgi model from the first film to get their money's worth, but the guy just appears from nowhere, and then dies, just so Prime could kill something before being taken out.

Sleeve
24th June 2009, 01:37 PM
Wasn't hard to see that coming a mile off. Dies halfway through the film; hasn't faced the Fallen yet (which was in one of the previews, when the Fallen teleports in and everyone get knocked over); and hasn't combined with Jetfire. Of course he's coming back. Apart from Animated there doesn't seem to be a series when he doesn't die and get resurrected. Didn't stop me shedding a tear though.

I was put off by the way the humans treated his body too. The way they unceremoniously dumped him on the tarmac, it didn't seem reasonable.

Sky Shadow
24th June 2009, 01:46 PM
Apart from Animated there doesn't seem to be a series when he doesn't die and get resurrected.

Actually, it only took Animated Optimus Prime about an hour to die and be resurrected. It happened at the end of Transform And Roll Out.

Sleeve
24th June 2009, 01:53 PM
Actually, it only took Animated Optimus Prime about an hour to die and be resurrected. It happened at the end of Transform And Roll Out.

Oh hell, it did too. Forgot because I haven't seen that episode in ages. Ol' Dying McPrime. So to reiterate, yeah, wasn't a surprise whatsoever he'd die and come back.

griffin
24th June 2009, 02:04 PM
There was no doubt he would be brought back in my mind:
a - Hasbro learnt the hard way 20 years ago about killing Optimus.
b - Optimus Prime is the biggest marketting element of Transformers, so once again, Hasbro wouldn't allow for the permanent loss of that 'asset'.
c - as BW Megatron once said 'you optimus' like sacrificing yourselves', so it is just something us old timers are used to now in Transformers. How many TFs series HASN'T had an Optimus die?
d - Megatron was only just resurrected a few scenes earlier, spoiling the fear that their deaths are final. THe moment he died, I immeadiately thought of the other Cube shard bringing him back.

kup
24th June 2009, 02:08 PM
I did not see the overall plot coming but after Prime died I knew he would be back by the end - It's tradition.

Robzy
24th June 2009, 04:37 PM
Never in doubt!!!!

My God, it was one of the most obvious and poorly executed "surprises" ever. As soon as he died it was like Gandalf all over again - sad music, slow motion, close ups of Sam. You just KNEW he would be back later! And then, the last 50 minutes of the film deal with bringing Optimus back to life! I'm not sure how ANY person couldn't have seen it coming.

Let's not forget the classic line uttered by the Fallen himself... "Only a Prime can kill me"... duh, wonder who dat cud be? :rolleyes:

I actually hate that fact that they resurrected him... it cheapens his death!!! If you're gonna kill him (and I'd prefer they didn't)... then KILL HIM! What's the point of all this fighting if they can just come back to life. Where's the bravery or sacrifice in that???! :rolleyes:

Lord_Zed
24th June 2009, 06:04 PM
Prime's meat hooks were awesome in that fight.

Still would have been nice to know where the hell the Blackout clone came from.
I get that they probably wanted to re-use the cgi model from the first film to get their money's worth, but the guy just appears from nowhere, and then dies, just so Prime could kill something before being taken out.

My thoughts exactly on Blackouts re-use, given his scene in the first film was pretty big I reckon he was probably significantly more detailed than Brawl and Bonecrusher. I still he think he could have been slavaged, so I didn't really pay his return much heed. obviously there was significant Decepticon activity on earth.

As for Prime as Griffin said Prime sacrafices himself in every series, though this is his first time in live action. Well that's one less tribute we need to tick of the list.

Gutsman Heavy
24th June 2009, 07:55 PM
Never in doubt!!!!

My God, it was one of the most obvious and poorly executed "surprises" ever. As soon as he died it was like Gandalf all over again - sad music, slow motion, close ups of Sam. You just KNEW he would be back later! And then, the last 50 minutes of the film deal with bringing Optimus back to life! I'm not sure how ANY person couldn't have seen it coming.

Let's not forget the classic line uttered by the Fallen himself... "Only a Prime can kill me"... duh, wonder who dat cud be? :rolleyes:

I actually hate that fact that they resurrected him... it cheapens his death!!! If you're gonna kill him (and I'd prefer they didn't)... then KILL HIM! What's the point of all this fighting if they can just come back to life. Where's the bravery or sacrifice in that???! :rolleyes:

+1

his death just screamed 'plot device!' Disappointing but not surprising!

SentinelPrime
24th June 2009, 08:26 PM
The real question is "do you think there will be Transformers 3?"

roller
24th June 2009, 08:37 PM
everyone knew he wasn't going to stay dead

Everyone

liegeprime
24th June 2009, 09:21 PM
So Prime gets resurrected, yet Jazz remains dead?:confused: kinda racist there of the writers :rolleyes:

Gutsman Heavy
24th June 2009, 09:37 PM
So Prime gets resurrected, yet Jazz remains dead?:confused: kinda racist there of the writers :rolleyes:

who cares!? he was a damn silver-ger!

griffin
24th June 2009, 11:52 PM
Still would have been nice to know where the hell the Blackout clone came from.
I get that they probably wanted to re-use the cgi model from the first film to get their money's worth, but the guy just appears from nowhere, and then dies, just so Prime could kill something before being taken out.

Bonecrusher was seen in both modes as well, suggesting that they were needing to use both of them to fill the ranks, but saved money by not rendering as many new models.

The thing that bothered me was not seeing Barricade, who was the one who actually survived the first movie, and yet they used the two who died instead.

RageOnTheRoads
25th June 2009, 12:09 AM
The thing that bothered me was not seeing Barricade, who was the one who actually survived the first movie, and yet they used the two who died instead.

Amen to that!

I was really looking forward to him making a re appearance in this one, after his rather abrupt and unsolved departure in the first movie. Oh well. :rolleyes:

Golden Phoenix
25th June 2009, 03:38 AM
As soon as Prime died I knew he'd come back. It is just his thing

I would have laughed had his body turned black

Kyle
25th June 2009, 07:33 AM
I'm glad they didn't turn Bumblebee into Bumblmus Prime...

Bartrim
25th June 2009, 07:57 AM
Never in doubt!!!!



Let's not forget the classic line uttered by the Fallen himself... "Only a Prime can kill me"... duh, wonder who dat cud be? :rolleyes:

I actually hate that fact that they resurrected him... it cheapens his death!!! If you're gonna kill him (and I'd prefer they didn't)... then KILL HIM! What's the point of all this fighting if they can just come back to life. Where's the bravery or sacrifice in that???! :rolleyes:

Maybe Skids or Mudflap would become a Prime?:p

In the novel Prime doesn't die he goes into a prolonged stasis lock. It actually gives Ratchet a bit more character and a few lines as he explains that on Cybertron with the right equipment he could repiar Prime in no time but here Prime would have to "self repair" which would take a long time.

Krayt
25th June 2009, 07:57 AM
At least in the novel they talk of stasis lock.... explain it's like a coma but they don't think his internals will be enough to repair him.

Kyle
25th June 2009, 08:00 AM
I have to get the novel now... :D

Tetsuwan Convoy
25th June 2009, 08:43 AM
So Prime gets resurrected, yet Jazz remains dead?:confused: kinda racist there of the writers :rolleyes:

Yeh, but Jazz sucked.

Saw this coming really.

As for the balckout clone, the video game calls him Grindor I think, so maybe this isn't actually BO, its just his brother who looks exactly the same:confused:

No Idea where bonecrushr came from though....

And ditto on the Barricade front. He was my fave decep from the first

Paulbot
25th June 2009, 09:49 AM
As others have said the toys gave away that Prime would be back. In this case it was a keychain(!) that spoilt the movie since the Leader Jetfire toy is not out yet and the Legends one is a Decepticon.

I was actually expecting Prime to die in the movie, but in a climax fight with the Fallen (I was kind of hoping for a Empire Strikes Back-style Autobots lose ending).

GoktimusPrime
25th June 2009, 12:40 PM
The Matrix of Leadership =

http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/brands/0011/4655/brand.gif

:)

SilverDragon
27th June 2009, 08:15 PM
I have to say that I saw it coming. For one, he was supposed to combine with Jetfire, and Jetfire hadn't appeared yet. For another, since it's the second in a trilogy, if he was going to stay dead (until the next movie, like Jack Sparrow), he would die at the end.

Beast_Wars_Superior
28th June 2009, 01:01 AM
I had it in my mind, because like you said, who was going to fight the fallen?

Bloody awesome movie though.

Now here is the big question,

Did anyone else almost, or did cry when it happened?

I know I was on the verge :o

Not so much 'on the verge', but I was kinda thinking 'No! It can't be!'

For a few minutes I was wondering if they would find a new leader and press on, but then I realised that if Megs can come back to life, and Sam still had an Allspark fragment, it was pretty much a certainty that Optimus would be brought back in similar fashion. ;)

Was not impressed by the way the Armed Forces treated his body, just dumping it at the Base. At least he got some parachutes when he was dropped over Egypt/Jordan.

I think the guys who dumped him were the ones who wanted the Autobots gone anyway. The Egypt/Jordan ones were like 'We're going to show Prime some respect because he's our dear friend'. :p

hound
28th June 2009, 02:35 AM
I voted before reading Gok's comment. If you ask me about Prime resurrection, yeah I see it coming alright.

GoktimusPrime
28th June 2009, 09:36 AM
I must admit that a tear came to my eye when Prime died. Strange... when I saw Transformers The Movie in the cinema in 1986, I didn't even flinch when Optimus Prime died. Oh well. :p

shokwave2
28th June 2009, 09:56 AM
I was actually expecting Prime to die in the movie, but in a climax fight with the Fallen (I was kind of hoping for a Empire Strikes Back-style Autobots lose ending).

If Bay had decided on this i think alot more people would have liked it. It would of left people wanting more, knowing that the war isn't over. Bay ended the movie with options. Make a third film or let it be? I guess he's not sure what he wants yet either.

Beast_Wars_Superior
28th June 2009, 02:27 PM
I think Bay has actually said that if they do a third film, the main baddie will be Unicron, so the scale increases with each film. ;)

GoktimusPrime
28th June 2009, 08:27 PM
I'm with Paulbot - I was also hoping for an Empires Strike Back style ending where the baddies win. That's what I would've done.

I also would've left Megatron dead in this movie and make Starscream the main antagonist - let him have his moment in the sun for a while. Then in the third installment I'd bring in someone like the Fallen and have Megatron ressurected (and called Galvatron).

Golden Phoenix
28th June 2009, 11:19 PM
I think it was good that they didn't do it Empire style
It would have left me unfulfilled.
It only works if all the movies are tied together in the same way
LotR did this and it worked well. That did have certain advantages though

Lord_Zed
29th June 2009, 12:01 AM
I think it was good that they didn't do it Empire style
It would have left me unfulfilled.
It only works if all the movies are tied together in the same way
LotR did this and it worked well. That did have certain advantages though

Yeah, the Empire ending only works if they actualy film 2 films back to back. And aside from Lord of the Rings the last 2 Empire style blockbusters Matrix 2 and Pirates of the Carribean 2 had pretty annoying endings. However I would have liked a more phyric victory, like maybe Megatron betraying the Fallen and making of with a butload of Energon to build his new Decep army.

Aparently rumour has it new Megs is effectively Galavtron, but was not renamed so as not to confuse the regular audience.

As for Starscream, now that we know what happens with ROTF, they could actualy make a clone wars style cartoon or comic of Decep hunting stories with Starscream as the boss badguy.

Ok I know IDW have already done this sort of, but they could do it again..... properly!

Tabias Prime
29th June 2009, 12:23 AM
the fact they didn't mention stasis lock made me wonder for a bit if they were going to bring Prime back, bringing Jazz back may have been a bit more difficult due to the fact that Megatron ripped him into 2 pieces.Maybe some damage is just not repairable..just like humans rip us in 2 and see how well the doctors can put you back together...Lets just face fact you cant keep a good Prime down. On a personal note, my favourite scenes in the movie and i guess its most peoples is the forest battle scene and my other favourite is where Bumblebee cuts sick at the end against ravage and the other decepticon whos name escapes me...:eek::eek:

shokwave2
29th June 2009, 05:51 PM
I would of loved an Empire style ending. I would of left Prime dead after the forest scene, made Jetfire destroy the sun weapon and Megatron, have The Fallen and Starscream maybe kidnap Sam or Mikaela and left everyone wanting more. That way Bay has to make a third film. Then in the third film i would bring in Unicron, resurrect Megs as Galvatron, bring in Rodimus, Ultra Magnus, etc, rescue Sam, then combine Jetfire and Prime. All out battle on Earth and space.

Robzy
29th June 2009, 06:12 PM
I'm not a big fan of the Empire ending (having said that, Empire is one of my favourite films - but it only works in certain circumstances). Some of the best sequels ever made have been self-contained films... you know, the kind that you don't really need to have seen the first movie to follow/understand/enjoy this one, and the ending is solid (ie, 'not to be continued')

GoktimusPrime
29th June 2009, 07:20 PM
When I saw RotF, I thought that it was one of those movies where you need to see the first movie to enjoy it. But one of my students watched it without ever having seen the first one, and she loved it. So there you go. :p

Lithium
30th June 2009, 11:37 AM
I would of loved an Empire style ending. I would of left Prime dead after the forest scene, made Jetfire destroy the sun weapon and Megatron, have The Fallen and Starscream maybe kidnap Sam or Mikaela and left everyone wanting more. That way Bay has to make a third film. Then in the third film i would bring in Unicron, resurrect Megs as Galvatron, bring in Rodimus, Ultra Magnus, etc, rescue Sam, then combine Jetfire and Prime. All out battle on Earth and space.
Of course you'd say that. I cried when Optimus died. Him coming back to life and the way it happened just plain ROCKED!!! :D He looked so awesome when he combined with Jetfire! *Drools* Big guns ... *Drools*

BigPenney
30th June 2009, 11:57 AM
Like others have said, I saw it comming because of the Jetfire combination.

Lithium
30th June 2009, 12:02 PM
BigPenny, that doesn't make sense. You saw it coming because of the Jetfire combination? That didn't happen until after Optimus was resurrected. Or am I missing something?

Sky Shadow
30th June 2009, 12:19 PM
BigPenny, that doesn't make sense. You saw it coming because of the Jetfire combination? That didn't happen until after Optimus was resurrected. Or am I missing something?

We knew that the Jetfire toys can combine with Optimus Prime. Optimus Prime died in the film before combining with Jetfire. Ergo, Optimus Prime would return to combine with Jetfire.

Now I think of it, I would have preferred it if Jetfire remained alive and combined with Optimus Prime's corpse, rather than the other way around. That would have shocked all of us.

Lithium
30th June 2009, 12:21 PM
Ok I gotcha. Yeah, that would've been shocking. But I'm still glad they brought back Optimus. I'd be in mourning, otherwise.

Lord_Zed
30th June 2009, 01:18 PM
Yeah it would be cool if John Connor had died and his face grated to the Terminator... oh wait wrong film.

It's a cool idea, but these sort of daring radical ideas are considerd to risky by Hollywood. Although we can't really blame them. I must admit I much preffered the Watchmen to ROTF but it certainly didn't bring in the big bucks did it.

Lithium
30th June 2009, 01:20 PM
Yeh, if I weren't so obsessed with Transformers, I'd definitely favor Watchmen.

Hereticpoo
7th July 2009, 06:52 PM
Other;

Wasn't surprised,

Spoilers: When it happened I thought "They killed him when we were kids and now they've done it again, Motherfoccacia's!"

Ode to a Grasshopper
8th July 2009, 12:42 PM
Serious question: Has there ever actually been an Optimus Prime who hasn't been revived?
I'm not including BM Primal here, though even then Universe seemed to bring him back again...

EDIT - should have said died and then revived, pardon my being so unclear.:o

Golden Phoenix
8th July 2009, 01:21 PM
Serious question: Has there ever actually been an Optimus Prime who hasn't been revived?
I'm not including BM Primal here, though even then Universe seemed to bring him back again...

RID/Car Robots Optimus Prime is the only Optimus Prime I know of who hasn't died

Animated Optimus Prime has the fastest revival though

darockk
8th July 2009, 01:59 PM
i thought it was stupid how when Prime hit the ground, Michael Bay decides to cut to a scene of the Fallen getting out of his couch and his eyes lighting up(even though prime was actually still alive at this point but anyways!)...way to ruin the moment.

Then a few scenes later we see megatron and starsceam on the building saying "that went well.." when really they should have focused more on Prime's death and the autobots/army's reaction. Constant scene/mood shifting ruined this movie for me.

or maybe the down play of primes death was intentional because he going to be brought back to life anyways.:confused:

GoktimusPrime
8th July 2009, 09:14 PM
Serious question: Has there ever actually been an Optimus Prime who hasn't been revived?
Finding an Optimus who's never been martyred is rare! As Golden Phoenix mentioned, there's Fire Convoy (RiD Optimus Prime). There are also:
+ Universe Spychanger Optimus Prime (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(Universe_Spychanger))
+ Shattered Glass Optimus Prime (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(Shattered_Glass))
+ TransTech Optimus Prime (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(TransTech))

"You Optimuses do love to sacrifice yourselves, don't you?" - Megatron (Beast Wars, 'Other Voices Part 2')

Then there was this scene from "Hardware (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7p96aiE32k) Wars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UVVBctvylU&feature=related)":
Fluke Starbucker: "C'mon, Auggie Ben Doggie!"
Princess Anne-Droid: "Get to the ship! Run for it!"
Ham Salad: C'mon! "Let's go!"
Auggie Ben Doggie: "No, you go on without me... I'll be all right... Don't worry about me..."
Ham Salad: "Aw, jeez!"
Fluke Starbucker: "Jeez! What a martyr!"
Princess Anne-Droid: "What a martyr, I can't believe this!"
Ham Salad: "Yeah. See ya later, you martyr!"

Then a few scenes later we see megatron and starsceam on the building saying "that went well.." when really they should have focused more on Prime's death and the autobots/army's reaction. Constant scene/mood shifting ruined this movie for me.
The Megatron/Starscream scene was important for story-plot advancement. It clarified that the Decepticons' primary mission objective: Sam Witwicky, had failed, and thus they escalated their plans to a greater level including hacking into the Earth's communications networks and issuing their 'warrant' on Sam. The only thing we really missed was the army collecting Prime's corpse, which isn't as essential for plot advancement.

We got to see the Autobots and their human allies briefly mourning for Prime when they delivered Prime's body. A lot more mourning than Jazz ever got! And it was interrupted by Galloway who, as Epps said, is an "a$$hole."

Golden Phoenix
8th July 2009, 11:27 PM
Finding an Optimus who's never been martyred is rare! As Golden Phoenix mentioned, there's Fire Convoy (RiD Optimus Prime). There are also:
+ Universe Spychanger Optimus Prime (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(Universe_Spychanger))
+ Shattered Glass Optimus Prime (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(Shattered_Glass))
+ TransTech Optimus Prime (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Optimus_Prime_(TransTech))

They all probably have died or will die and got/get revived. 'Cept for the Shattered Glass one. Shattered Glass Megatron will die and come back to life.
That Optimus Prime will be found by Primus and turned into a Galvatron like Prime

GoktimusPrime
9th July 2009, 04:52 PM
Shattered Glass Megatron will die and come back to life.
Heh, yeah.

That Optimus Prime will be found by Primus and turned into a Galvatron like Prime
Shadow Commander'd! :p