Transformers IDW discussion thread [SPOILER WARNING]

[STL]

Post spoiler based discussion here:

I'll start. What are the pros and cons of the mini-series format? And why the delay?

Pros:
- new #1
- the delay helps to stimulate demand for a new #1

Cons
- Kills pacing for what really is an ongoing. Makes it a frustrating experience.
- Less TF in the loop
- Means Spotlights get left further and further behind, again affecting the larger universe
- People lose patience, might drop the book

The data definitely doesn't seem to suggest this course of action being a great idea either:
http://tfarchive.com/comics/idw/sales.php

In fact, IDW is doing far worse than Dreamwave ever did. Sure they're managed better but they are in no way reaching fans to the same degree. With Dreamwave, you had the non-hardcore TF fans reading which I myself was at the time. I only came back to collecting 3 years ago. If Dreamwave had been bad, I'll tell you now, I would never have even started collecting again. Not even the movie would've compelled me too.

IDW in my opinion have it screwed up pretty badly.

[i_amtrunks]

I think the 2 benefits from doing 6 issue miniseries are as such:
1: New #1 every year
2: Easier to put into a trade.

I prefer this IDW stuff to DW's work, the art is not so vibrant, but it has a soul, something the DW stuff severely lacked.

Interest is being lost due to the stop start nature of the series, and all the excess lines (G1 reprints, Evolutions, Movie stuff, Beast Wars), even Spotlights are very hit and miss for casual fans.

However I think IDW know they are mainly catering to a niche market, an d as such are relying on them to hold up the franchise until bigger events (like the All Hail Megatron and Movie Sequel comics) bring more casual readers to the fore.

Having Furman as their mainline writer is a double edged sword, having the one writer writing everything means there is more cohesion in the IDW Furmanverse, on the other hand he is a very popular writer nad must spread his time across multiple frnachises, meaning the 6 month or so gap between the main book titles is almost necessary for him to do his other works.

As long as IDW do not start royally stuffing up their release schedule (like tehy did with the BW stuff) I think they will survive. They may struggle time to time, but they will survive.

[Paulbot]

There's too many subplots in these series with no sense of closure. Prime's news in the latest issue (Devastation #5) made me wonder if it was supposed to be set before the Optimus Prime Spotlight but a quick look at that comic showed me it wasn't.

Already in Devastation there's been two subplots linking back to older Spotlights that have had no purpose except to link into the Spotlights:

In the first issue of Devastation, Optimus Prime ordered Sideswipe and Hound's squad from Spotlight: Galvatron to prepare for immediate travel to Earth. Now the Autobots are leaving the planet before they've even arrived?

In the second issue of Devastation, Hot Rod had a call from Dealer from Spotlight: Hot Rod, asking to get him transferred to Earth. He hasn't shown up yet nor do I think he will.

I think they'd be better off to have a monthly series but with two issues every second month: 18 issues a year. Some comics run on this pattern already. This would allow each (shorter) story to have a consistent artist (instead of a six parter with fill ins). This could incorporate the Spotlight stories among the other stories as well. Each trade could still reprint 6 issues and they could put out 3 new trades a year.

A problem the IDW series have is that to the casual TF fan they won't recognise the Transformers they know (from G1 or the Movie, or Animated). At least with Dreamwave G1 comics you pick one up and it looks familar.

The Spotlights work a bit better but say your a comic reader who remembers Blaster from the cartoon, the cool Autobot that turned into a tape player. Flicking through the Blaster Spotlight would you be inclined to buy it? Long time fans would but the casual one wouldn't.

For someone to come in to the story now a lot wont make sense unless they've read the previous 20-odd issues of the ongoing series (Notice the real numbering of the series is hidden down by the bar code) and all the spotlights. It's not accessible to new readers so I don't think sales can rise very far.

[STL]

TRANSFORMERS: INFILTRATION
N/A - OCT05 #0 >100,000
030 - JAN06 #1 45,468
053 - FEB06 #2 35,828
074 - MAR06 #3 30,344
068 - APR06 #4 28,835
083 - MAY06 #5 27,264
088 - JUL06 #6 25,303

TRANSFORMERS: ESCALATION
138 - NOV06 #1 20,625
139 - DEC06 #2 16,363
129 - JAN07 #3 15,616
127 - FEB07 #4 14,737
131 - MAR07 #5 14,932
148 - MAY07 #6 14,446

TRANSFORMERS: DEVASTATION
148 - OCT07 #1 15,704
161 - OCT07 #2 13,854
164 - NOV07 #3 13,334

The sales are emphatic. Look at those drops between mini-series. They're jaw dropping. If you are catering to a niche market, it'd mean you'd probably be able to maintain more consistent sales levels. IDW isn't doing the franchise justice from a sales and marketing perspective.

I agree with Paulbot especially on the accessibility issue. You have new mini-series with #1s but none of them start off with a jumping on point. You jump and go WTF? Pretty dodgy storytelling. And then you go, oh so there's some Spotlight this came from. Makes sense but... Damn those bastards trying to get me to buy more.

I also agree with I_amtrunks. Furman as headwriter can be good or bad. But it's the equivalent of putting all your eggs in one basket. I think it's going the wrong way.

I think they need two G1 titles. One with more flash and zip with recognisability; one for Furman's world. I may be a critic of Furman but the primary issue is his pacing and shoddy story-telling at times. The universe he is crafting is unique. And I want more.

Another possible path is having two artists on alternating mini-series. This allows them to have less breaks between mini-series. They could have a one month gap between the mini-series, drawn by different artists. They've got a stable of motivated creators who are also fans.

If anyone knows comicbook sales, there is only one trend. Down.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=12917

Looking at the present sales figures, by the start of the next arc, IDW could be selling only 10,000 units. A severe decline. Especially at a time when fandom is experiencing an influx or returning fans and new fans.

"All Hail Decepticons" or whatever it'll be called is due this year. And it's supposed to be big and invigorating. There's very little buzz around it though. Ryall needs to do more. Unlike independants, IDW has the fan communities where they can get exposure. They aren't maximising their penetration in the markets. They can talk straight to the fans. They can create buzz on the internet. It isn't happening. Me, I only care b/c I don't want to have no TF comics. They're the pinacle of my collecting b/c they're the only places I can really rely on a consistent basis to give me stories about the characters I care most about. G1. I just don't want to see it disappear.

[i_amtrunks]

I think they need two G1 titles. One with more flash and zip with recognisability; one for Furman's world. I may be a critic of Furman but the primary issue is his pacing and shoddy story-telling at times. The universe he is crafting is unique. And I want more.

Another possible path is having two artists on alternating mini-series. This allows them to have less breaks between mini-series. They could have a one month gap between the mini-series, drawn by different artists. They've got a stable of motivated creators who are also fans.

I like both of these ideas, DW may have been largely fanwank and badly written, but there was that element of "fun" to it, somewhat similar to the G1 cartoon, it was more or less a light hearted romp, with the occasional darker element.

Having the dark and complex Furmanverse and another lighter "pick up and read" style series wouldnt hurt at all. An ongoing "Hearts of Steel" style story would be ideal.

And thanks for the actual numbers, I knew that between Infiltration #0 and #1 there was over 50% decline, but I didnt realise that it was down to under 15,000 sales.

[STL]

Speculation time:

What does everyone think about the two dead humans. If Furman's dialogue is anything to go by, I'm thinking with the severe mental damage, the two of them are very likely to become Headmasters.

Does anyone think that the double solicitation of Spotlights in March might have anything to do with the fact that Furman doesn't have enough room to work with in Devastation? Arcee and Grimlock seem to be the best candidates here to give perspective on the outcomes from the two key encounters.

Could Arcee be the psycho trying to destroy Monstructor? That'd be a very interesting twist. The rest of thee Autobots seem to be in her way according to what's been said about the issue.

And Grimlock might be teaming up with Megatron? If the Autobots are abandoning Earth, he might have no choice. Especially with his fellow Dinobots still in stasis. He's got the type of character that could forge an alliance with Megatron too of all the Autobots.

Another possibility I'm giddy at is what if Megatron and Starscream defeat the Reapers and as a result are viewed as heroes by the Earth population. The bigwigs in Skywatch might know otherwise but to the public they're adoring the big new alien robots. And with that adulation, Megatron gets more Ore-13 and precious Earth energon to lead into the All Hail Megatron event this summer? It's a bit far fetched but that would be an awesome twist. The Autobots then would be seen as villains by Earth. IDW's version of Megatron seems savy enough to do this. Recall his lines in #5 when he sees what Astrotrain, Blitzwing and co. were doing behind his back? I think it'd make Megs all that more sinister and creepy.

And I assume Optimus has instructed Hound's team to no longer to go to Earth. I'm interested whether Sideswipe will defy those orders and go to Earth anyway. Also would love to see his reaction to Sunstreaker.

[i_amtrunks]

Another possibility I'm giddy at is what if Megatron and Starscream defeat the Reapers and as a result are viewed as heroes by the Earth population. The bigwigs in Skywatch might know otherwise but to the public they're adoring the big new alien robots. And with that adulation, Megatron gets more Ore-13 and precious Earth energon to lead into the All Hail Megatron event this summer? It's a bit far fetched but that would be an awesome twist. The Autobots then would be seen as villains by Earth. IDW's version of Megatron seems savy enough to do this. Recall his lines in #5 when he sees what Astrotrain, Blitzwing and co. were doing behind his back? I think it'd make Megs all that more sinister and creepy.

And I assume Optimus has instructed Hound's team to no longer to go to Earth. I'm interested whether Sideswipe will defy those orders and go to Earth anyway. Also would love to see his reaction to Sunstreaker.

That's almost the same thinking as myself. Except I expect Hot Rod and maybe even Nightbeat to hang back on Earth, Sideswipe, and even Grimlock will probably team up with them.

I am not sure what Arcee will be doing, but I agree, breaking Monstructor out (perhaps as another Jhiaxus experiment) makes sense. I'd love to see Springer and the Wreckers introduced in the next "-tion" book helping Prime out.

I expect Galvatron to team up with the Decepticons, in an effort to overthrow Nemesis Prime.

[STL]

Thoughts on this? It's supposed to be incontinuity... just feels like a bad move to me.

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/viewtopic.php?t=35867

Nice to see Steve Buccellato doing some pencils, I only ever recalled him as a colourist on the Uncanny X-Men book.

[Paulbot]

Yeah it's very odd for Furman to spoil maybe 6 months(?) worth of comics.

[i_amtrunks]

I think its a good move, we all had guessed at least some of the plot points that are mentioned.

Also Hunter never mentions the outcomes of any of his experiences. All we really know is that Hunter/Sunstreaker fight Scorponok, see the Dead Universe, ally with Grimlock and fight a full Decepticon alliance, and survives.

We know no details, outcomes, or consequences. Hell at the end of the "-tion" series it could very well be Sunstreaker vs. the Decepticons!

All it's done is spell out all the future plot points that have had plenty of clues and hints left around beforehand.

[STL]

Well I have thoughts but they are potential spoilers...

The Autobots leave Earth (as per Devastation #5)and the Decepticons conduct that "full scale invasion" mentioned in the Furman Mosaic which the new Headmaster Sunstreaker combats

And STL, Megatron holding the USA flag might be a clue... :)

I did miss that. But if it's a full scale invasion with Scorponok and Megatron combining forces I'm a bit disappointed. I was hoping they'd show a bit more ingenuity and go with the unusual route of Megatron manipulating the humans. Drat.

I dunno, it seems though that we don't have many twists to expect. Which I think is really disappointing. That image and the Mosaic were badly timed imo and it makes me realy annoyed. There's no guessing game for me at all now; it's just an issue of "when". Does anyone else find that frustrating?

It's the equivalent of being spoilered about key plot points in a movie.

[Paulbot]

I think the Sunstreaker vs Scorponok thing could be separate... establishing Sunstreaker as a proper Headmaster.

I think Furman's Mosaic was very badly timed. They should have waited at least until Devastation was finished.

It's still very broad strokes of the plot but I agree it's annoying.

[roller]

The first series was good but this ongoing Arc seems to be taking forever and to me does not have any closure whenever you reach issue 6, i find it a bit hard to follow sometimes because i dont get the spotlights or subtle references from long ago issues, i liked DW story lines and arcs better

IDW art lately has started to look cheaper, varity is no longer as hot as she was b4

[STL]

The first series was good but this ongoing Arc seems to be taking forever and to me does not have any closure whenever you reach issue 6, i find it a bit hard to follow sometimes because i dont get the spotlights or subtle references from long ago issues, i liked DW story lines and arcs better


I do like DW much better too. Much more closed. I didn't have to read Micromasters (even though I did) or Armada or War Within to have an idea of what was going on. Can't say the same for IDW.

I don't think your predicaments helped either by the fact that the Spotlights are collected much slower than the ongoing mini-series (doesn't that sound stupid?). For instance, the Optimus Prime Spotlight which was quite essential to the awfully convenient twist at the end of Devastation #5 is in the Spotlight that was just out this week.



IDW art lately has started to look cheaper, varity is no longer as hot as she was b4

:confused: Was she ever?

[bassbot]

verity hot? heh heh.

wow. being new here i didn't realise the vocal negativity with idw's run.

i'm quite the opposite. It took 3 volumes for DW to get to an ongoing tf comic remember, and that only went for about a year.

IDW have put out 3 volumes (including Dev #6 to come) plus a mini-series and will have 15 spotlights that add to the bigger picture but focus on individual characters more-so.

If you look at the few yrs we've had a great spell of comics. yes there's been some small gaps and delays. but all to be expected with a small independent publisher.

Other positives that shouldn't be discounted -
1. Huge fan-interaction, q & a's, discussion, previews, etc from Chris Ryall and Simon Furman (I have organised two q & a's with Simon personally in the last year where IDW forum members pose questions and he answers!)

2. Furman leading his vision for a transformers universe, with others really adding to that, namely Nick Roche (Kup Spotlight), and others coming.

The mini-series deal is really because of IDW nature, they're a small independent publisher. Regular mini-series that then easily translate into trades seems to be the modus operandi.
Maybe sales are less (as the figures seem to clearly show) but imo the quality has not changed.
And not all questions have been left unanswered, by the end of Infiltration and Escalation things were set up and concluded and moved into different arena's.

Simon's mosaic is great. It is EVERYTHING that we fans of the comics have been discussing - what will happen if the autobots leave earth? what's with the dead universe? will sun-hunter survive? these and many more things that we've been discussing and pondering and theorising, i don't know why so many people think it spoilerish (here and elsewhere).
anyhow, just some random thoughts.
can't wait to see the end of Dev!

[Paulbot]

There's plenty to like in IDW and a lot done better than Dreamwave, but the fact that it's so fan-friendly makes it a bit inaccessible to non-fans hurts it's chances of going on forever (as I'd like!). Dreamwave had two limited series before the ongoing which only got axed because of Pat Lee's dubious business practices.

The Mosaic confirms (some of) what happens, which is spoilerific. We know certain plot points now, although not the specifics. As I said I think the timing is bad and should have come out after Devastation #6.

[i_amtrunks]

IDW is a more serious (and more fluent) series, which does make it harder to get into (and somewhat intimidating to start if you missed out on Infiltration #0). Dreamwave never really had that problem, even though it's universe had some serious questions and inconsistencies after only a dozen issues.

It would be nice to have had the two running alongside one another at the same time, one serious series, one more laid back and reader friendly, but it wasnt to be.

[STL]

verity hot? heh heh.

wow. being new here i didn't realise the vocal negativity with idw's run.

i'm quite the opposite. It took 3 volumes for DW to get to an ongoing tf comic remember, and that only went for about a year.


Maybe I should post more on the IDW forums. :p

Joking aside, it's not that I don't appreciate the IDW run. I do. I recall remarking at fan meets how this universe is so unique. The whole way the universe is set up makes this feel like a real war. Every run prior (Marvel and UK) had the war in the background but it never felt like a war. This does. And I love that part of it. It's a real take on the Transformers. It redefines them so that they are more than the adventure/sci-fi genre. They are at war.

My quibbles with IDW generally are:
- pacing
- release schedule
- art

The pacing has been horrible within the comics and within the wider IDW universe. It's not that I'm impatient but plot elements take so long to manifest and they require you to have read certain Spotlights. That I find detracting for other readers. I myself may not mind since if it's G1, it's bought in my book. However, for the casual reader it makes them wary. To them it appears like sloppy storytelling.

What ultimately it does is that it makes the stories inaccessible unless you've been reading from day 1. That's damaging in my opinion for any series.

I'm in the process of re-reading Infiltration at the moment and I actually like a lot more in TPB form than I did originally. The slow pace and delays really killed my momentum in those early days. I dropped the series for several issues in fact. The humans were really annoying and overbearing. But reading it as a whole; the humans are far more negligible.

That said, with the benefit of hindsight and the anecdotal evidence in the sales, IDW has flopped the franchise. They took it below chartered territory. The zero issue was awful. You could not read it and feel inspired. That I feel was a terrible way to try and generate buzz. The Transformers didn't even appear!

Dreamwave weren't perfect, just as IDW aren't, either. I like DW. Very fun, it harkens back to a more fanboyish, if I may say that, era. It had an immense amount of "Gwun" charm and allure.

IDW feels gritty and real. It's a struggle and burden between two rivalling factions. It doesn't have that same sense of fun but that's not a fault. That's its strength. It takes the concept and elevates it to mature level.

I agree with i_amtrunks. Two series concurrently would be awesome and give the best of both worlds. I do believe though that IDW have dropped the ball. They don't create the buzz they really need to. Each DW title, good or bad, received coverage in the form of interviews with writers and artists in Newsarama or CBR forums. IDW struggles to even get a voice there and create real buzz.



Simon's mosaic is great. It is EVERYTHING that we fans of the comics have been discussing - what will happen if the autobots leave earth? what's with the dead universe? will sun-hunter survive? these and many more things that we've been discussing and pondering and theorising, i don't know why so many people think it spoilerish (here and elsewhere).
anyhow, just some random thoughts.
can't wait to see the end of Dev!

The problem with the Mosaic is that the question is no longer will Sunstreaker and Hunter survive. It's a given. It's supposed to be in continuity. We know exactly how it all unfolds now. He fights Scorponok, joins the Dinobots and face down a full-scale Decepticon invasion.

That's telling us everything that's going to happen. That's the payoff of any story. That creates the buzz and the speculation. Having told us, what do we have to look forward to?

What are we left with now? Only a "are we there yet?" vibe. That I find incredibly disappointing. We're going to read and go, "oh yeah that was supposed to happen."

That's uninspiring.

And to me, there's just so much that could be managed better. But hey, I'll keep reading after all. There are very excellent character moments.

[GoktimusPrime]

We know exactly how it all unfolds now. He fights Scorponok, joins the Dinobots and face down a full-scale Decepticon invasion.
What-?! When did that happen?? Did I miss something?

[STL]

What-?! When did that happen?? Did I miss something?

It was several posts up. Here's the direct link.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/2844/hailandfarewellwebam2.jpg

It didn't happen in the comics but the Mosaic reveals how events will unfold.

[GoktimusPrime]

Meh... that's a relatively minor spoiler IMO... especially considering that it hasn't been published yet. I can deal with that.

[STL]

I just read Spotlight Arcee. And I felt a pang of excitement. My guess is the Autobots' first gestalt will be Computron! They've all been damaged and it makes only sense that Skyfire as a close friend of theirs will have to find a desperate way of keeping them alive.

WooT! They're my favourite team.

Liked the spotlight a heap but the colouring is way too dark and detracting.

[GoktimusPrime]

You mean Jetfire. Skyfire is his G1 cartoon name, but in every other medium he's called Jetfire, and that includes IDW (which actually uses Classics Jetfire). :) :)

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/transformers/images/thumb/1/1e/Jetfireclassics.jpg/180px-Jetfireclassics.jpg

[i_amtrunks]

I just read Spotlight Arcee. And I felt a pang of excitement. My guess is the Autobots' first gestalt will be Computron! They've all been damaged and it makes only sense that Skyfire as a close friend of theirs will have to find a desperate way of keeping them alive.

That was my thinking from Spotlight Prime.

But there may be another Decepticon Gestalt will be created before Computron,seeing as how Arcee stuffed up some Combaticons!

I'm interested to see if Sunstreaker, Hot Rod and the Dinobots will fare in the "All Hail Megatron" Series, or even if they will appear at all.

[STL]

That was my thinking from Spotlight Prime.

But there may be another Decepticon Gestalt will be created before Computron,seeing as how Arcee stuffed up some Combaticons!


Good thinking. That's a really good point too. They make the perfect test subjects too for the new process too.

I'm interested to see if Sunstreaker, Hot Rod and the Dinobots will fare in the "All Hail Megatron" Series, or even if they will appear at all.[/QUOTE]

Most likely they will, I reckon. The series is supposed to depict a world w/out heroes but it's inevitable that some Autobot resistance must appear. Otherwise the whole 12 issues is a lost cause.

[i_amtrunks]

The way I see it is that the Combaticons and Monsterbots stay in their dimwitted, slow gestalt forms, while Jetfire refines the process to create the Computron we all know and love.

I was wondering if in "All Hail" whether or not the main opponent to Megatron may be human, or perhaps even other Cybertronian Decepticons; perhaps Banzaitron, Shockwave or (heck, why not) Straxus?
I expect that Sunstreaker and co will participate in the series, but I very much doubt they will have too much focus on them, I really feel the story will be told from either the Decepticons point of view, or perhaps even a human point of view, observing helplessly as the Decepticons take over the world.

[GoktimusPrime]

Bring on Lio Kaiser!!

[bassbot]

I gotta say STL that I quite enjoy the journey and process, spoilers are a fact of life with comics and the internet, and with TF fans we're always discussing and theorising what's coming - I know that on other boards conclusions have been made quite early that have been close to actual story points.

I though with some early pacing issues, I totally loved Infiltration, but for a larger audience it was a bit slow in general senses. Escalation picked that up.

One more thing - I don't agree in general that the spotlights are required reading. Yes they add more to the whole IDWverse, but there's only been a couple that are wholly needed to the big picture - actually, maybe only Spotlight: Galvatron.

Anyhow - Revelation and AHM are gonna be mind-blowing from everything I can see.

[GoktimusPrime]

Spotlight Optimus Prime and Sixshot are also required IMO. Spotlight Nightbeat may prove to be 'essential' in the future too. That's rather typical of Furman - he's been doing that since G1. ;) Although G1 was one continual series whereas Spotlight is a separate sub-series, so yeah, in that regard it's kinda annoying. (-_-)

I don't mind people making speculations - that's different from actually dropping spoilers. Making a speculation is more like, "I think this could happen" whereas a spoiler is when you know something is going to happen and you tell others about it. Like the time someone told me that Megatron was frozen and captured by humans and that Jazz would die in the live action movie. He didn't tell me any more movie spoilers after I gave him a sharp kick to the janglies.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transfandom%20Comic/transfanmeet14.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCuSYWnHZ6E)

If people want to discuss spoilers - fine, but it's courtesy to give a prior warning and give people a choice as to whether or not they want to be exposed to spoilers.

[i_amtrunks]

Don't forget Spotlight Shockwave Gok, I think of any Spotlights it is a must read, seeing as it is the start of all the Earth related stories.

Prime, Galvatron, Arcee are also must reads, with Sixshot, Soundwave and Magnus being helpful, while Nightbeat and Hot Rod will probably become very much more important in the future.

Kup, Blaster and Mirage are about the only throw-away Spotlights thus far, yet Kup still remains my favourite of the lot.

[bassbot]

well. I just simply buy all of them, and I've only been majorly let down by Mirage so far.

[STL]

I agree w/ i_amtrunks. There's too much happening in a lot of the "peripheral" Spotlights to make it okay to read the main line without them.

Examples:
- Sixshot's appearance in Devastation would be even more meaningless if you hadn't read the Spotlight. Why is he all of a sudden questioning his loyalties in issue #4-5? And those aliens that were the "major" threat in 6 would be a bigger joke than they already are if you hadn't read the Spotlight.
- The Optimus Spotlight is really essential. It's setting up heaps of other threads, why the Autobots have to leave Earth, the combiner technology, the Dead Universe, Nova Prime etc.

Those are just some of the examples. I've enjoyed the Spotlights more than the main line generally w/ the exception of Escalation. I think that's in large part to the fact that Furman feels he can get from point A to point B in a Spotlight whereas in the ongoing limited series he has to drag it out.

[i_amtrunks]

I've enjoyed the Spotlights more than the main line generally w/ the exception of Escalation. I think that's in large part to the fact that Furman feels he can get from point A to point B in a Spotlight whereas in the ongoing limited series he has to drag it out.

I have to agree with you on this too. While I still anticipate issues of the main book line, I always am more excited about upcoming Spotlights. Even when the issue is not really a spotlight, but a telling of a story from a certain perspective (Arcee) it still feels stronger and better paced than the -tion series.

[GoktimusPrime]

I'm gonna hijack this thread into a Revelations Spotlight discussion thread! Y'arr! :p
(cos I can't be stuffed starting a new thread for it) :D

Anyhoozles, just some quick thoughts about the final issue of Revelations (note: spoilers ahoy matey).

I'll just insert this random image to create some spoiler space... don't scroll beyond this pic if you're avoiding spoilers

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/tfworld.jpg



Right.

A few quick thoughts:

+ The colouring was fantastic! I really liked the exquisite painting which I guess must've been done by Su! Phwoar! I liked some of the "spatter effects" used in some of the action shots. :)

+ One colouring anomaly I picked up though - Groundbreaker's Pretender shell is correctly orange when you first see it, but then it's red like Cloudburst's for the rest of the comic! Buh?! Not only is it non G1-accurate, but it also makes it hard to discriminate between Cloudburst and Groundbreaker without taking a close look. Bah. Landmine's shell switches from yellow to amber, but I can deal with that. ;)

+ The Magnificence = deus ex machina! G1's Underbase was way cooler IMO. :p

+ The plot twist on Sideswipe's motivation and relationship with Sunstreaker was a surprise to me! I must admit that until now I always thought his frustration with Sunstreaker's situation and overall asshattery was related to a deep fraternal bond with Sunstreaker... I couldn't have been more wrong. So that was a nice surprise for me.

+ The Darkness turning on Nova Prime and Optimus Prime choosing "both" was neat.

+ Damn this Arcee is HAWT! She's a knife-wielding psycho-maniac, but I'd http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/Quagmire.gif her. ;)

+ The fate of Gorlam Prime was interesting... kinda similar to the origins of Gobotron is it not?

[kup]

I haven't read the spoilers since I still need to find a copy of Spotlight: Sideswipe.

Has that been released yet?

[GoktimusPrime]

I picked it up today. I think it came out on Thursday. :)

[reillyd]

+ The plot twist on Sideswipe's motivation and relationship with Sunstreaker was a surprise to me! I must admit that until now I always thought his frustration with Sunstreaker's situation and overall asshattery was related to a deep fraternal bond with Sunstreaker... I couldn't have been more wrong. So that was a nice surprise for me.


Not having read it yet, what was the actual relationship. I'm hoping its not a freaky incest thing going on, because he's pining away for his brother like a lost love.

[GoktimusPrime]

nah, nothing like that...

(spoilers)
Sideswipe suffers from a really bad "little brother" complex and feels that he's forever living in Sunstreaker's shadow - desperate to break out of it and prove to Sunstreaker (and the universe) that he is an Autobot warrior in his own right. Sideswipe was always a rookie compared to Sunstreaker. He didn't want to save Sunstreaker as an act of brotherly love, but because he wanted to prove to him that he was no longer a rookie. It's kinda similar to the friendly rivalry that Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi had going between them where they kept score of how many times they'd saved each other's lives. But whereas Kenobi and Skywalker had nearly equal scores and saw each other as peers by Episode III, it was very one sided with Sideswipe and Sunstreaker, with Sunstreaker always outclassing Sideswipe and leaving Sideswipe desperate to one day out-do Sunstreaker. Saving Sunstreaker was his one chance to outclass him - whether he rescued him dead or alive was irrelevant... he just wanted to opportunity to outdo him! So yeah... this Spotlight issue does focus on Sideswipe's inner demons, namely his insecurity and low self-image which he tries to address in combat

Now go buy the darn comic! :)

[FFN]

We'll probably see Sunstreaker and Hunter in Maximum Dinobots. I hope.

Furman kinda had to drop a lot of stuff to finish up Revelations so AHM could take center stage.

[GoktimusPrime]

I think he did pretty well for a "quick wrap up" story. Better than the way he finished off G1 and Beast Wars... comparable with the way he finished G2. I liked it. :)

[heroic_decepticon]

Read my BotCon report (the IDW panel), and it will make sense. (not gonna spoil it here)
http://www.otca.com.au/bc08/bc08idw.html

Griffin, where does this reside now? Link doesn't work. :p

***

I think the way he finished Revelations was a little rushed. Overall, I still loved the Revelations arc because it does tie up threads from the Infiltration, Stormbringer, Escalation and Devastation arcs (and of course Spotlight). And I feel it was rushed if only because this is a story years in the making, built up over so many separate arcs, but finished quickly in 4, not even 6, issues.

[i_amtrunks]

Got to order Sideswipe from Kings online store thing today. (plus the Animated comic).

Didnt even bother checking out Phantomzone at Chatswood, they sell out of issues of the main IDW books, and none actually make it to the shelves.

[heroic_decepticon]

Got to order Sideswipe from Kings online store thing today. (plus the Animated comic).

Didnt even bother checking out Phantomzone at Chatswood, they sell out of issues of the main IDW books, and none actually make it to the shelves.

I was at Kings on last Thursday and there were 3 copies of the EJ Su cover left (I bought 1). There is a stack of around 15 or more issues of the Nick Roche cover though. Don't think you'll have a problem securing it in any case.

[i_amtrunks]

The plan was to get all of Su's lovely covers, but a mate nabbed me the Roche cover for DoubleDealer (not that I mind, I've loved all of Roche's covers for this series), so either cover is fine by me.

With $3.50 flat shipping, it's cheaper for me to order online than buy a ticket to the city and drop in on my way home from work.

[heroic_decepticon]

hmmm... that means that the comic is going cost you $11 total ($7.50 + $3.50). Kind of sucks that it has to be so expensive. heh.

[i_amtrunks]

Ordering a number of comics for me and a mate, so the additional cost is negligible.

So far the Magnificence McGuffin has a been a necessary evil, but I wonder if the Magnificence was used in Spotlight Hot Rod as a back-up device for Furman to use if ever this situation occurred? It would be mighty clever if he did. (then again he may have learnt his lesson from his G2 comic).

I'd love to know what Furman actually had planned before his series was trimmed down, if not a proper full story, just some dot points would be great.

[heroic_decepticon]

I'd love to know what Furman actually had planned before his series was trimmed down, if not a proper full story, just some dot points would be great.

I'd love to know that too.
I should probably know this but i havnt been reading up on comic news lately- why was the series trimmed down in the first place?

[i_amtrunks]

There are plenty of posts about this in other comci threads, so I'll be brief:

Sales were not what IDW had wanted, they were constantly dropping, I think they were down to the 15,000 or so.

So All Hail Megatron was pitched and accepted to take the place on the "-tion" series as the #1 Transformers book by IDW.

[kup]

Cool, thanks.

I always have a hard time finding these comics as the shops that sell them are not exactly close nor on the way from where I live or work. I guess that I will need to wait till the next Parra Fair to get Spotlight: Sideswipe.

[FFN]

Got to SPOOM!



I'd love to know that too.
I should probably know this but i havnt been reading up on comic news lately- why was the series trimmed down in the first place?There are plenty of posts about this in other comci threads, so I'll be brief:

Sales were not what IDW had wanted, they were constantly dropping, I think they were down to the 15,000 or so.

So All Hail Megatron was pitched and accepted to take the place on the "-tion" series as the #1 Transformers book by IDW. Exactly, and Furman's story, being pretty complex, serialised (you needed to have read since Infiltration to fully understand it), and the fact the characters weren't written like their most well-known classic G1 personalities likely contributed to normal comics fans and more casual TF fan not picking up the books. People like the safety of familiarity and simplicity, it seems.

Hence All Hail Megatron.

[heroic_decepticon]

I've read very little interviews and background material as to the whys and wherefores of the all the series' and its direction, but I've read every Transformer comic published by IDW since Infiltration and in terms of complexity and characterisation I think these are some of the best TF comics ever written- especially the Furman/ EJ Su combination (and I'm secretly glad the Su pencilled the entire Revelations arc).

[FFN]

Su only penciled Spotlights Cyclonus and Sideswipe. Nick Roche did Spotlight: Hardhead (and will also do Maximum Dinobots) while Dan Khanna did Spotlight: Doubledealer.

[STL]

SPOOM!

Exactly, and Furman's story, being pretty complex, serialised (you needed to have read since Infiltration to fully understand it), and the fact the characters weren't written like their most well-known classic G1 personalities likely contributed to normal comics fans and more casual TF fan not picking up the books. People like the safety of familiarity and simplicity, it seems.



It's not the safety of familiarity. It's the fact that you expect certain archetypes to develop of a character. For instance, if Batman started acting like the boyscout that Superman s or Wolverine quipped like Spider-Man and Spider-Man growled like Wolverine, you could certainly understand why people would hate such a move.

I'm not as conservative as most but what Furman has done horribly is given little time to make these changes in the characters work and give them time to blossom and become expected. As a result, we're left with this sucky piece of rushed excrement.

Furman is out of touch with the fandom. He's being ambitious but where he's failed with his run this time is that he hasn't kept the fandom at heart and that's why its deserted him. Say what you will but I'll just point you to the sales figures. They do not die. Furman is responsible for the decline of the TF brand comic wise. Period.

I'm all for what he tried to do but it was convoluted and choppy. His worst crime was the poor pacing of the series and breaking it up between Spotlight and mini-series. That's where this title feel apart. Ryall and Furman so frequently towed the line that "oh they can be read independently and it wont' affect your enjoyment one iota." Right.

They're a joke. What they produced was a joke. But the worst misdemeanour was that the victims of this joke were TF fans.

Furman's IDW run will be remembered for it's promising direction with new interesting concepts. But promise alone is not enough. You still have to deliver. And that they did not.

[FFN]

The responses in this thread seem to disagree with you. As do I.

[GoktimusPrime]

His worst crime was the poor pacing of the series and breaking it up between Spotlight and mini-series. That's where this title feel apart.
Yeah, I also haven't enjoyed the breaking up of the story into multiple mini-series. DW did the same thing and I didn't like it all that much either. I miss the old days from G1/G2 when there was just one single continuous comic run - no pressure to hastily wrap up story arcs until the very end when G1 was unexpectedly axed (ditto G2 - and Furman showed his frustration for that through the introduction of the character name "Jhiaxus").

But was it Furman's decision to do all this or was it Ryall's or someone else's? My suspicion is that it was IDW's decision and Furman has been simply following his orders and writing stories according to this designated format. Furman has been writing Transformers stories since 1985 and this format really doesn't seem to be his style.

Either way, I prefer his writing style back in the old Marvel days when it was just one continous run where seemingly insignificant events would later resurface much later! DiTillio and Forward did the same thing in Beast Wars too which I really enjoyed.

[Paulbot]

Yeah, I also haven't enjoyed the breaking up of the story into multiple mini-series. DW did the same thing and I didn't like it all that much either.

I think Dreamwave was a bit different. Both the first and second G1 series, and both War Within series, were primarily self contained stories (with some teases for the future).


It's not the safety of familiarity. It's the fact that you expect certain archetypes to develop of a character. For instance, if Batman started acting like the boyscout that Superman s or Wolverine quipped like Spider-Man and Spider-Man growled like Wolverine, you could certainly understand why people would hate such a move.

Yep. And it's called Bendis' New Avengers/Mighty Avengers where every character is now a Smart-Alec.


As a result, we're left with this sucky piece of rushed excrement.

I agree Revelations is rushed but in general IDW's various series as a whole has been good. It would have been nice for the four Spotlights to have been their own comics and the main plot to have taken place in a six parter but twas not to be.

It is good for others authors to get a run on Transformers, as in All Hail Megatron, or Dreamwave's Generation One Vol 3 (which is my favourite of the revamps). Between the IDW books and the UK ones, Furman is simply responsible for too much of TF fiction at the moment and a break could be good. (These comments also apply to Bendis and the Avengers :rolleyes: )

[heroic_decepticon]

It's not the safety of familiarity. It's the fact that you expect certain archetypes to develop of a character. For instance, if Batman started acting like the boyscout that Superman s or Wolverine quipped like Spider-Man and Spider-Man growled like Wolverine, you could certainly understand why people would hate such a move.

and some examples would be...?


I'm not as conservative as most but what Furman has done horribly is given little time to make these changes in the characters work and give them time to blossom and become expected. As a result, we're left with this sucky piece of rushed excrement.

Furman developed the story and characters over what is close to 3 years now. There were also character spotlights which in many cases focused on developing 2 or more key characters (eg: Spotlight Hot Rod developed Hot Rod and Doubledealer). It takes time. 500+ Transformers cannot be scripted to blossom over the term of just 3 years. G1, including Marvel UK ran for 9 years, 3 times the length of the IDW-verse.


Furman is out of touch with the fandom. He's being ambitious but where he's failed with his run this time is that he hasn't kept the fandom at heart and that's why its deserted him.

Some justification needed to convince me.


Say what you will but I'll just point you to the sales figures. They do not die. Furman is responsible for the decline of the TF brand comic wise. Period.

The appeal of something should hardly be gauged by sales figures. Transformers: The Movie performed dismally in 1986, but look at its longevity and potential to still sell and outsell its rivals in terms of dvd sales (for example).


I'm all for what he tried to do but it was convoluted and choppy. His worst crime was the poor pacing of the series and breaking it up between Spotlight and mini-series. That's where this title feel apart. Ryall and Furman so frequently towed the line that "oh they can be read independently and it wont' affect your enjoyment one iota." Right.

I'm with Gok regarding your comments on this.


They're a joke. What they produced was a joke. But the worst misdemeanour was that the victims of this joke were TF fans.

Furman's IDW run will be remembered for it's promising direction with new interesting concepts. But promise alone is not enough. You still have to deliver. And that they did not.

Don't agree. Not one bit.

[Paulbot]

Mod note: Reviews of the latest books added here instead of in the old News thread about the covers.

[Hereticpoo]

[Spoliers]


I' finally sat down and read IDW's REVELATIONS TPB after getting it when it first came out.

I've have Infiltration, Escalation, Devastation, and all of the Spotlight TPB's.

A question for the well read IDW guys;

What the hell is going on?

I missed something major, coz at the end of Spotlight Sideswipe the planet that Nightbeat was investigating turns out to be Cybertron? And what was Nightbeat's dark mission that Nova Prime declared to be pivotal? Hardhead turned Nightbeats head into an exploding watermelon and that was that.

Im totally confused. Did I miss some timemachine stuff? The Dead Universe is destroyed but Jiaxus (whose power comes from said universe) is still immortal?

Galvatron was a prime? And did he merge and explode with Nova Prime, at the confrontation with Optimus and both matrix's?

I dunno about buying any more of IDW's stuff, the pictures are pretty but the story is.....bizarre? And i can't begin to see how AHM fits because I'm waiting for the Second AHM TPB.

Oh and Arcee as a psycho murder = Awesome.

[Paulbot]

It seems like all the questions you have relate to the final four Spotlights.

Simon Furman had to wrap up most of his ongoing storylines in four issues after IDW decided All Hail Megatron would be a better direction for their comics.

So instead of being character focused, everything got crammed into these four issues rather than these four spotlights plus a six-part Revelation series.

At least some of the earth-bound plots got to be resolved in Maximum Dinobots, but even that had problems in the final issue trying to completely clear the slate for AHM.

[GoktimusPrime]

I missed something major, coz at the end of Spotlight Sideswipe the planet that Nightbeat was investigating turns out to be Cybertron?
Here (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Gorlam_Prime)


And what was Nightbeat's dark mission that Nova Prime declared to be pivotal? Hardhead turned Nightbeats head into an exploding watermelon and that was that.
He was an unwitting sleeper agent for Jhiaxus.


Im totally confused. Did I miss some timemachine stuff? The Dead Universe is destroyed but Jiaxus (whose power comes from said universe) is still immortal?
Jhiaxus is in a limbo between the living and dead universes where everything is virtually immortal, allowing Arcee to 'kill' him over and over and over again ad infinitum. A realm of eternal torment... sounds familiar. ;)


Galvatron was a prime?
No, but he was part of the Autobot crew of the first Ark mission under the command of Nova Prime (aka Nemesis Prime).


And did he merge and explode with Nova Prime, at the confrontation with Optimus and both matrix's?
His fate is further revealed in the latest issue of AHM.

[Hereticpoo]

Thanks Gok ;) That makes more sense. :)