Should the movie series change directors?

[SilverDragon]

Considering how Revenge of the Fallen turned out, do you think that Bay should be replaced, and if so, with whom?

Despite overall enjoying the movie, I'm inclined to say yes, someone else should take over as director of the movie series. My main reason for this is the various superfluous elements of RotF (e.g. Devastator's balls, Simmons' underpants), which were apparently there because Bay wanted them in. I suppose one could also count the Twins, but I didn't find them particularly annoying-just screen-stealing from the other robots, mainly the new ones like Sideswipe.

If he did in fact have those parts put in because he wanted them, then I'm seriously wondering what he thinks about how a film should flow. The tacked on humour bits served only to pull me out of the film.

Also, there was apparently a lot of conflict between him and the writers (Orci and Kurtzman, fyi)-he wanted the Twins in, etc, and they had to push for a lot of things from the original script to be kept it. I don't think conflict is a good sign.

As for possible replacements...I'm not entirely sure, really.

(Note: I wanted to put a 'Yes/No' poll in here, but I forgot to tick the option to enable one.)

[kup]

Considering how Revenge of the Fallen turned out, do you think that Bay should be replaced, and if so, with whom?



Frak Yeah! and at this point I don't care with whom!

[shokwave2]

For the fans yes, for the rest of the world no. If Bay has made this much money from such a crappy movie, then i dont' see the big bosses changing directors anytime soon. They see that Bay can bring in the dollars and they'll want more next time.

[GoktimusPrime]

I nominate Irvin Kershner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYljerEsrKc) to replace Michael Bay. Though I fear that he may be too old to direct something like Transformers (and most likely now retired) which has been more suited to a hyperactive director like Bay.

Michael Bay himself isn't fundamentally a bad director for Transformers, but he really should remember that he a _director_ and NOT a story editor. He should just let the writers do their job and get on with his own task of directing the film.

I wouldn't mind seeing Peter Verhoeven or George Lucas directing Transformer - or heck - STEVEN SPIELBERG! He's already producing! :D

[shokwave2]

Even Peter Jackson could make a mature, darker film than Bay. But it wouldn't make the money if didn't include the teenage toilet humour to attract teenie boppers.

[Trailer Park Ninja]

For the fans yes, for the rest of the world no. If Bay has made this much money from such a crappy movie, then i dont' see the big bosses changing directors anytime soon. They see that Bay can bring in the dollars and they'll want more next time.

Unfortunately, you make a valid point. As long as the box office money keeps flowing in, the powers that be (who have no heart about the characters/property and look at it from a business point of view) will be happy with Bay until the cash cow dries up.

After ROTF, I'm inclined to think of any subsequent sequels similar to the crappy Police Academy series, with hokey plotlines mixed with stupid T & A and corny jokes until thank god the thing died.

If Transformers goes this way, the big movie bigwigs will leave the property at the side of the road like roadkill and move onto the next big licence to milk.

The problem is will there be a reboot/remake down the line? I know the movie isn't really catering for the old fans, but for the general movie going audience so the answer may be no.

However, when you compare Transformers to something like Batman or Superman which has 60+ years of history and is pretty much universal for all generations, I don't see another Transformers movie when the next one completely tanks it and the studio execs lose money on it.

You look at how Batman and Robin was completely abysmal at the box office and horrific to watch, thanks to the script, casting and campy direction of Joel Schumacher. It took a couple of years but the studio execs and DC comics were always going to do another Batman movie.

The comic book fan and movie audience response to that steaming pile of crap made them rethink their approach and so they abandoned that franchise to start anew.

They realised they had to get back to the basics and the heart of the character, mythos and go back to the drawing board.

The reboot they did and the results they got speak for themselves. They got a fantastic cast, a proven writer in David Goyer and a great director in Christopher Nolan and they used the wealth of history and stories to make a great movie.

With Transformers I don't see that happening but I hope I'm wrong.



I wouldn't mind seeing Peter Verhoeven or George Lucas directing Transformer - or heck - STEVEN SPIELBERG! He's already producing! :D

George Lucas who gave us Jar Jar Binks? We already got a taste in ROTF with the Twins, do we really need more?

[Lord_Zed]

Frak Yeah! and at this point I don't care with whom!

While I'm no Bay fan, he did do an ok job on the first movie. Anyone seems a bit drastic.

Replace Bay with Mel Gibson, Roland Emmerich, George Lucas or Uwe Boll and where back were we started.

Ofcourse if they got someone good who knows what this acting is thing is, that would be an improvement.




I wouldn't mind seeing Peter Verhoeven or George Lucas directing Transformer - or heck - STEVEN SPIELBERG! He's already producing! :D

The only difference if Lucas directed Transformers would be a thankfull abscense of Bay humour, and an increase in unecesary cgi sequences. Although at least Optimus would never shoot first then. :p

Verhoeven would be interesting, though I worry he'd put a scene in where Arcee flashes her crotch at Deception interogators. :D

[kup]

My reason for saying "anyone" is mainly because we know exactly what we will get with Bay. Another director will add an element of surprise as Bay's methods may be formulaic and repetetive but pretty unique to him.

[Gutsman Heavy]

James Cameron, Peter Jackson or Sam Raimi. I'd also suggest Ridley Scott, but wouldn't want him distracted from the new Alien film :D

[Tabias Prime]

Jerry Bruckheimer:p:p

[AussieJason]

Yes, I think they should replace him.

Something is wrong if the cartoon has better storylines than the movies.

But as others have said, they won't replace Bay; and he will potentially end up damaging the Transformers brand.

[kup]

Agree, Bay will not be replaced so we will have to endure another Bayrrific movie.

[Defcon]

The first movie was a decent flick, the ROTF just has its priorities wrong. I don't think it has done anything respectful for the brand and the brand's target audience (children). Yeah sure we can have humour and a love interest, but I think we can leave the crude humour out. It should only be about the transformers and their human allies, with a story people can relate to. And make it enjoyable for adults, include realism, action and suspense, and this stuff is still ok for children as well. No more military, Let the autobots be the heroes for a change. If the autobots are represented as trully awesome heros, that is all that is needed to save the next sequel in my opinion. And if the decepticons are not treated as cannon fodder this is also win! Humans are cannon fodder :D 'evil'. If michael bay wants to regurgitate the same crap, then yes change to someone else.

[TF76]

I'm happy for Bay to continue.

Yeah some stuff is annoying as a fan but the films were popular and because of them we get all the extras, merch toys etc...

They have been worth watching, some cool scenes and designs... so whatever.

I guess if anything I would like the movies to be more sutable to the age I was when the G1 cartoon was on TV.

But I know unlike the Movies the cartoon was never actually the product so I guess it needs to be a totally different thing.

[kup]

I think that the first movie was ok because Bay was restricted by Spielberg - You do see a fair bit of Speilberg in that movie (positives not negatives).

However Bay was given full reign on this flick and it couldn't of been more Bayish. Now that such a film has made such a huge Box Office return, Bay is likely to have free reign on the next movie.

We can look forward to lots and lots of impressive action and explosions but zero plot and characters with lost of soft p0rn shots and more 'genitalia' or human waste humor.

[Robzy]

I never really liked the first film much either... having said that it was waaaayyy better than ROTF! I consider Michael Bay to be a very poor director... he has no understanding of pace and has demonstrated that in every film he's ever made!

As for new directors... James Cameron would be great, but let's face it he's not gonna touch TFs... especially with Avatar coming out (a film he's devoted the last 14 years of his life to making - Bay could take a lesson here... don't hurry a film because you're stubborn).

I reckon Christopher Nolan would be great! I loved the Dark Knight!

[Defcon]

As for new directors... James Cameron would be great, but let's face it he's not gonna touch TFs... especially with Avatar coming out (a film he's devoted the last 14 years of his life to making - Bay could take a lesson here... don't hurry a film because you're stubborn).


Thats a valid point. Bay could of taken longer to make the movie and not rushed it. It was a given that it was going to make a huge amount of money. What's the point of having a team of creative people working on something, and the boss has free reign and dosen't utilize his team. They could of hired a bunch of monkeys and got the same result in the end. Bay dosen't really care, he just says the things people want to here sometimes and every now and then he lets slip a comment like 'how he hates the dinobots' and yet he likes big balls on devastator, Alice the species/terminator rip off sprayed with a yellow liquid over her face, and having simmons dack himself so that his posterior covers almost the entire screen! ok he never said he liked those things, yet the fact that they are in the movie indicates that is what he likes.

[liegeprime]

We can look forward to lots and lots of impressive action and explosions but zero plot and characters with lost of soft p0rn shots and more 'genitalia' or human waste humor.

It should be "impressive action", kup.....somehow , running in slow motion with explosions at the background which actually made me almost fall asleep in the moviehouse gets pretty boring for me. Somehow while watching I was waiting actually for the movie to end, not a good thing. I kept thinking at the back of my mind, man I want my $17 back....

Erm who directed the LOTR series... he could prolly make a more decent job.?

[dirge]

Erm who directed the LOTR series... he could prolly make a more decent job.?

Peter Jackson (a kiwi), whose name has come up in this thread already, I believe.

[fatbot]

i firmly belive the series should be handed over to BRUCE CAMPBELL! He can write, produce, direct and star, that way the execs will make even more money and we get a better movie!

[1AZRAEL1]

i firmly belive the series should be handed over to BRUCE CAMPBELL! He can write, produce, direct and star, that way the execs will make even more money and we get a better movie!

Bruce Campbell Fanboy? Bruce is awesome haha, but I dont think he would be a good replacement.

That said, I will go against the grain of this whole thread (if not whole forum :p) and say that Bay should stay. Personally I loved both movies, and liked the second one better. To me it was easy to follow, loved the Twins.

And as mentioned earlier, this movie has made massive amounts of money from it, they won't replace Bay anytime soon.

[RageOnTheRoads]

I actually liked the first TF movie, still do. Its a regular Dvd watch, thats for sure. The Second was just damn atrocious though, like others said, severely lacking the Spielberg touch. Just one of Bay's mindless romps, and I don't want to sit through another like ROTF thats for sure.

I reckon TF will suffer from the infamous trilogy syndrome. The first makes the lowest amount at the boxoffice, but builds a big cult following in the DVD release. The second makes big bucks off the firsts following, but sucks as a movie. Then the third makes significantly less than the second but more than the first.

As for director, someone a tad more emotionally and mentally mature for the third one would be nice. *Sits and fantasizes of the James Cameron TF that could have been*

What exactly is the standing with Michael Baysplosion? I know said he wanted time off from the franchise. Do we know how long? I get the impression Bay's wafer thin patience is done with transformers. It's no secret he's a pretty arrogant, determine sod, so if he gets board with TF (not like his heart was in it to begin with) he's the kind of guy that would categorically refuse to return unless the studio exec's offer him an ungodly amount of money. The execs may want to push the release of TF 3 before Bay decides he wants to return to the franchise. It will be interesting to see how TF3 pans out.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Yes, he should no, he won't, and he's already confirmed he's not walking away from it.
Having already given up on this reimagining I'd hope they get whoever they've got doing the live-action Ghost in the Shell adaption so they can't maul that too.:(

[GoktimusPrime]

Peter Jackson... he'd be okay. Better than Bay... maybe. Sure, Lord of the Rings was awesome, but I still remember "Meet The Feebles"! ;) That movie makes any of Michael Bay's lewd moments look tame. And it was with Muppets!

[dirge]

I still remember "Meet The Feebles"!

I saw that film. Feeble was such an appropriate name. Like a bootleg Fraggle Rock. There's 25 minutes I'll never get back again :(

[kup]

I liked meet the Feebles - It was supposed to be awful that's the point of it.

[1AZRAEL1]

I liked meet the Feebles - It was supposed to be awful that's the point of it.

Reminds me of how bad Bad Taste was (that was dreadful, but classic at the same time :confused:)

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I liked meet the Feebles - It was supposed to be awful that's the point of it.+1. I still can't get over that barfing muppet - how on earth did they clean that thing afterwards?:eek:

[Hereticpoo]

It'd be cool to see how other directors would do the live action TF movies.
Hopefully Speilburg steps in on TF3 and pulls the reigns on Bay.

Or

Maybe they could give you 12GB of RAM to stab directly into your frontal lobe with your TF 3 Cinema ticket so you can process the speed of the action sequences and the mashup plot.....:D

[Deonasis]

Clint Eastwood for something gritty, real and epic. He can also do humour it's just more subdued.

[SilverDragon]

Peter Jackson... he'd be okay. Better than Bay... maybe. Sure, Lord of the Rings was awesome, but I still remember "Meet The Feebles"! ;) That movie makes any of Michael Bay's lewd moments look tame. And it was with Muppets!

The thing is, though, Jackson seems to know what belongs in a film/scene and what does not. Hence why King Kong didn't have random testicle jokes that detracted from what was occurring on-screen.

Sure, if Jackson directed a TF movie, it'd be like 3 hours long-but it would be an AWESOME 3 hours.

[AussieJason]

I agree. As already mentioned Peter Jackson or Christopher Nolan would be equally good choices.

The LOTR triology speaks for itself, and The Dark Knight should be compulsory study for everyone in the movie industry.

And while we are at it, how about a script by Simon Furman ?

[1orion2many]

:confused:Who directed the Dark Knight, he might be a good choice for the third installment:cool: just looked it was Christopher Nolan, he couldn't get any worse than MB's second effort:rolleyes:

[Robzy]

:confused:Who directed the Dark Knight, he might be a good choice for the third installment:cool: just looked it was Christopher Nolan

lol...




I reckon Christopher Nolan would be great! I loved the Dark Knight!




I agree. As already mentioned Peter Jackson or Christopher Nolan would be equally good choices.

The LOTR triology speaks for itself, and The Dark Knight should be compulsory study for everyone in the movie industry.

[AussieJason]

lol...

He got there in the end :D

[SMHFConvoy]

How about McG? HA! Look I thought the 1st movie was good. It had stupid moments. ROTF was just a bad experience for me.

If Bay's directing the 3rd instalment I'm out. Unless someone reigns him in and has the stones to say, "No that's a dumb idea." Speilburg, I'm looking at you, or your Mexican counterpart...

Hmm... When you think about it... Robert Rodriguez would deliver something interesting to the franchise. It'd either be Planet Terror with giant robots or Spy Kids with giant robots...

[GoktimusPrime]

Unless someone reigns him in and has the stones to say, "No that's a dumb idea."
Indeed. I reckon this was George Lucas' problem with Star Wars Ep I. With the original trilogy there were 20th Century Fox execs often telling him to make changes whenever they thought something may not have been a good idea... Luke Starkiller --> Luke Skywalker, Revenge of the Jedi --> Return of the Jedi etc. But after over 20 years of Star Wars becoming deeply entrenched in pop culture, by time Lucas started making The Phantom Menace he would've been surrounded by people who grew up loving Star Wars and would've worshipped the ground that he walked on. You think about it, hardly anyone ever said anything bad about George Lucas before The Phantom Menace. Everyone was probably like, "Yes Mr. Lucas." "Great idea Mr. Lucas!" etc. -- he would've been surrounded by yesmen who thought that the sun shone out of his rear.

But to Lucas' credit he did quickly take onboard a lot of the criticisms from the first movie. He hired someone to co-write Attack of the Clones and other people who were willing to tell him straight when something wasn't such a good idea; and you can see it. One of the biggest criticisms against Phantom Menace was Jar Jar Binks, particularly because he had such an overwhelming presence in the movie that wasn't matched by his contribution to the story (or lack of). Similar to the way that TF fans complain about Wheelie and Daniel. But by Attack of the Clones Jar Jar Binks had a far different presence (i.e.: only appeared in the movie when he _needed_ to, like to push for granting supreme executive power to Palpatine in the senate instead of snapping food with his tongue or sniffing animal farts) - and in Revenge of the Sith he only appears once (at Amidala's funeral) and has _no_ dialogue!

Whenever I ask most people, "Which is your favourite Star Wars movie?" most people answer either "Empire Strikes Back" or "Return of the Jedi" -- the two Star Wars movies that George Lucas did NOT direct! :D

[fatbot]

Bruce Campbell Fanboy? Bruce is awesome haha, but I dont think he would be a good replacement.



I don't think we've met, if we had, you'd have seen the bruce campbell tattoo i have on my left arm. make no mistakes, Bruce is a god.

[Jhiaxus]

A little late to the game -- but I'd like to come in and point out some of the things we'd lose if we lost Bay. They're pretty big things for me -- and things I think would be REALLY bad for the series.

1) MILITARY HARDWARE.
Michael Bay has an INCREDIBLE relationship with the American military. Whatever else you might say about him, he loves the American military and they love him. Good *GOD* the Transformers movies have benefited from this.

Take a look at other contemporary movies with lots of hardware. So much CGI, often UGLY-arse CGI. Hulk, and IRon Man both had to use CGI versions of vehicles that Bay got FOR REAL in both movies. Transformers is SO MUCH about the hardware, you GOTTA appreciate that Bay actually gets that hardware up on screen for us.

2) HE KNOWS HOW TO FILM A CAR.
Bay knows how light should reflect on a car. His influence on the special effects simply can't be denied. The wonderfully realistic look REEKS of Bay's influence -- the way the light sits PERFECTLY on the car parts even when they're moving. That is Bay.

Bay *LOVES* cars and military hardware and vehicles and he KNOWS how to film them. I wish he'd slow his camera down a bit, but still... it would be sad to lose his eye for cars.

3) BAY BELIEVES TRANSFORMERS SHOULD HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOUR.
I don't AGREE with Bay's sense of humour all the time. I think he went far too crass in the second movie with certain bits and pieces... but god damn it's a relief that he lets you have laughs while you're watching your giant robots. There's so many fanboy films with NO SENSE OF HUMOUR AT ALL. Take a look at Terminator IV, or X-men 3, or Wolverine, or... hell even the SPIDERMAN TRILOGY. They're so lacking in a sense of fun humour that when they DO make jokes it's kinda jarring.

The fact is that Transformers is absurd -- and Bay sorta revels in that.

4) BAY LIKES TO DO THINGS FOR REAL INSTEAD OF JUST USING CGI.
Sure there, is a LOT of CGI in Transformers... but... in the first movie BAY ACTUALLY BLEW UP A BUS. Any other director would have just made the entire Bonecrusher sequence CGI and it would have SUCKED. BAY ACTUALLY BLEW UP A BUS.

I cannot repeat that often enough. MICHAEL BAY ACTUALLY BLEW UP A GODDAMN BUS.

5) COLOUR.
It's funny -- the Transformers toyline for the movie looks so bleakly MONOTONE compared to other TF toylines... not so the movie.

Modern blockbusters LOVE colour correction, large, important films will colour-correct the HELL out of things. One of my BIGGEST complaints about the Lord of the Rings films was that they were SO DAMNED GREY. There wasn't the rich sense of a COLOUR FILLED world like you got from the books. The new Terminator film, the Batman films, the X-men films. So many movies sapped of all colour.

A different director might have made all the TFs stock grey and shot nearly everything at night to hide the CGI effects. Bay didn't. Bay EMBRACED the colour -- the environments are colourful, the characters are colourful, the whole movie is ALIVE and VIBRANT with colour.

Could you imagine how bleak Transformers could be done by Peter Jackson in his horribly monochrome Lord of the Rings style? Eeeeeyuck.

--Jhiaxus
(Don't get me wrong -- I think that Revenge of the Fallen was deeply flawed, but you know what? A lot of the things I *LOVED* About it were only there BECAUSE we had Bay as a director.)

(BAY ACTUALLY BLEW UP A GODDAMN BUS.)

[Gutsman Heavy]

Make Bay the DP and get a REAL director who can handle a little (but important!) thing called "characters"

[1AZRAEL1]

I don't think we've met, if we had, you'd have seen the bruce campbell tattoo i have on my left arm. make no mistakes, Bruce is a god.

I don't think we have met officially no maybe in passing at Parra Fairs?
I dunno I have a terrible memrory sometimes.

But yes, Hail To The King.
Not to derail the thread or anything, but Bubbahotep is awesome, so is Alien Apocalypse, total crack up haha.

[Jhiaxus]

Make Bay the DP and get a REAL director who can handle a little (but important!) thing called "characters"

I dunno if I can think of a director who'd do much better, honestly. I think what he really needs is:
a) A better editor
b) To work from a full script.
c) Spielberg to keep his heavy hand as producer.

That's what the real problem is -- it's that the movie was clearly started without a finished script. I think if Bay actually had a finished, well-refined script in his hands when he started Transformers III there would be no better director.

Spielberg's heavy hand also wasn't as present in Transformers II to its detriment.

And damn it all to hell we need a better editor.

[kup]

I dunno if I can think of a director who'd do much better, honestly. I think what he really needs is:
a) A better editor
b) To work from a full script.
c) Spielberg to keep his heavy hand as producer.

That's what the real problem is -- it's that the movie was clearly started without a finished script. I think if Bay actually had a finished, well-refined script in his hands when he started Transformers III there would be no better director.

Spielberg's heavy hand also wasn't as present in Transformers II to its detriment.

And damn it all to hell we need a better editor.

Given Bay's standard style of work and priorities - Without someone's heavy hand he would still butcher a well written script into what we saw in ROTF. For Bay, plot and characters come distantly after Action, SFX and explosions. In the minuscule instances when he did care for story and characters, he did it very poorly or gimmicky.

Bay was infamous for the things we have seen in ROTF well before he even did TF1, the difference being that before he was more restrained by several factors in the movie industry (studio, producers, etc) but now he has been given full reign and it truly shows what a hack director he is and where the flaws of the first movie actually came from as here they are the same but x10000.

[kup]

You know, this explains a lot:

http://www.lilformers.com/index.php/2009/08/10/lil-formers-158-devastated/

[GoktimusPrime]

Note - for anyoen asking why Movie dev has 2 yellow legs (instead of one yellow, one green as int he movie) I was using the original character concept art as reference, which does have 2 yellow legs. I don’t think this is available online anywhere, so I can’t post it up to show you guys.
Heh, I was wondering why Long Haul was yellow. Perhaps his concept version is French, cos he's-a-peein'! :p (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpza0xsjWys)

[1AZRAEL1]

Heh, I was wondering why Long Haul was yellow. Perhaps his concept version is French, cos he's-a-peein'! :p (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpza0xsjWys)

It's you're-o-peein' :p

[SilverDragon]

And while we are at it, how about a script by Simon Furman ?

YES.

Now that would be something I'd watch.

[AussieJason]

You know, this explains a lot:

http://www.lilformers.com/index.php/2009/08/10/lil-formers-158-devastated/

Sure does. This says it all for me... (http://www.lilformers.com/index.php/2006/10/27/lil-formers-16-lithone/)

[Dylbot]

It's you're-o-peein' :p

Such a retardicon:p

[Gutsman Heavy]

But yes, Hail To The King.
Not to derail the thread or anything, but Bubbahotep is awesome, so is Alien Apocalypse, total crack up haha.

If you havent seen My Name is Bruce, make sure you do its a total Campbell fan wank, and actually good to boot!

[1AZRAEL1]

If you havent seen My Name is Bruce, make sure you do its a total Campbell fan wank, and actually good to boot!

I still havent seen it haha, typical kinda movie for him though haha.

[Robzy]

Hail to the King baby! :cool:

[Bartrim]

Purely based on how spot on Watchmen was I'd nominate Zack Snyder. But then I've enjoyed the movie franchise thus far so either way is fine for me.

Just as long as it's not Sam Raimi after that abortion that was Spiderman 3:mad:

[Gutsman Heavy]

Sam would do a great job, on the first 2, then in the third he'll make Bumblebee emo and be forced into having Nemesis Prime as the villain by Hasbro!

[Beast_Wars_Superior]

I don't think Bay needs to be replaced. However, I do think Spielberg needs to have an active role in the third film, like he did in the first. Bay is spot on for the huge action scenes that the franchise requires, but they need to bring back Spielberg to refine the in-between stuff. :p

[GoktimusPrime]

I think it's fair to say that overall I've been fairly supportive of Michael Bay and his role as director for the Transformers movie franchise. However two things have recently elicited me to reconsider my opinion of Director Bay.

#1: ROTF DVD special features and audio commentary. It seems to me that Bay really isn't taking the Transformers franchise as seriously as he could be and is willing to sacrifice the integrity of the story/movie just for the sake of making it "fun" (in a juvenile sense).

#2: I recently purchased Star Trek on DVD. The movie was written by the same writers as Transformers (Kurtzman & Orci) but with a different director (J.J. Abrams); and what a huge difference that seems to have made. Now I'm one of those "Star Wars is so much better than Star Trek" kind of nerds, but in spite of all that I really liked the Star Trek film and have even bought the DVD! Watching the special features I could see that Abrams really cared about the Trek franchise and wanted to do it justice with his film, which like Bay's Transformers films, is a new continuity (Transformers is a continuity reboot and Trek is a continuity splinter).

So it's got me wondering... would Transformers be better with a different director who genuinely cared about Transformers?

Michael Bay has openly admitted that before he was hired to direct Transformers he did not like the franchise, and that when Steven Spielberg asked him to direct he hung up on him. Hasbro since put him through what Bay calls "Transformers school," but I don't know how much "Transformers education" would make him truly care about the franchise. I am now wondering if it wasn't enough.

Now to be fair, Star Trek didn't succeed purely because of the director. It was pointed out that one of the writers (Roberto Orci) is a massive Trekker himself, so that would immediately make him a better writer for Trek over Transformers. Orci knows Trek lore back to front like most of us know Transformers lore. But I don't think he knows all that much about Transformers. Both Orci and Kurtzman have said that their experience of Transformers before the movie was just watching the G1 cartoon as kids... a fairly superficial level of understanding (certainly compared to Orci's knowledge of Trek).

Bay has described fans like ourselves as "Transformers head geeks" who know Transformers lore inside out... but do they have any such "head geeks" on their creative team? I am beginning to think that this is why Star Trek was a better movie; because they had a head geek as one of their writers!

So I think that if they want to make Transformers 3 a better movie, then what they need to do is recruit the assistance of a head geek! That's what Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio did with Beast Wars, recruiting the aide of fans like Benson Yee, James Hooks etc. They knew nothing about Transformers before writing the show and enlisted the help of fans to educate and guide them.

Does Transformers need to change director? Not necessarily. Michael Bay still brings a lot of good things to the table for Transformers, as eloquently pointed out by Jhiaxus in post #39 (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=121242&postcount=39); but I do think that the movie franchise would greatly benefit from directly enlisting the assistance of someone who has thorough and in-depth knowledge of Transformers lore and act as a story consultant. Of course, Bay needs to be willing to accept feedback from a story consultant and not simply fob off any undesirable suggestions as "kill-joy" (which is how he describes people who criticise his infantile humour). (-_-)

[5FDP]

I'd love to see James Cameron directing Transformers. In fact, when it was first announced that they were going ahead with a live action Transformers movie (back in '02), there was a petition by the fans to get James Cameron on board.

David Wise should write the story in conjunction with Simon Furman.

Hey... I can dream.

[Prime_217]

I don't think Bay needs to be replaced. However, I do think Spielberg needs to have an active role in the third film, like he did in the first. Bay is spot on for the huge action scenes that the franchise requires, but they need to bring back Spielberg to refine the in-between stuff. :p

^^^ THIS

[Robzy]

I remember Bay saying (back when he was first asked to direct Transformers) that he was forced to sit down and watch TF:TM. He said he couldn't watch it - he thought it was crap and after 15 minutes he wanted to put a gun to his head!!

Well, I can hardly believe that this same person can than think that ROTF is "better"! I mean, seriously, there's more character development in the first 30 minutes of TF:TM then there is in the whole boring 2 1/2 hours of ROTF. Even the "action" scenes are laborious to watch... and the so called "comedy"... well, let's not even start on that one. :rolleyes:

I agree with Goktimus - Bay doesn't take Transformers seriously at all! And he seems like he doesn't respect or like people (ie fans) who do! :mad:

[SMHFConvoy]

Geez just change the GODDAMN director. I'm so sick of hearing what the man thinks of TF. Obviously he hates it. I hate the 1st movie (2007) because I decided to listen to Bay's commentary. Here's a news flash he's a wind bag who claims that he invented the protoform in TF. Why are we evening discussing this TF2 was a rotting, pustle ridden limb in dire need of amputation.

I don't care that the character design is busy or that the bots aren't blocky. What I want is a TF movie that is a decent story, shot well, the audience can tell which characters are which, characters who turn up for a reason not just to fill the screen and can be enjoyed without resorting to juvenile jokes that stereotype people. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

[AussieJason]

Geez just change the GODDAMN director. I'm so sick of hearing what the man thinks of TF. Obviously he hates it. I hate the 1st movie (2007) because I decided to listen to Bay's commentary. Here's a news flash he's a wind bag who claims that he invented the protoform in TF. Why are we evening discussing this TF2 was a rotting, pustle ridden limb in dire need of amputation.

I don't care that the character design is busy or that the bots aren't blocky. What I want is a TF movie that is a decent story, shot well, the audience can tell which characters are which, characters who turn up for a reason not just to fill the screen and can be enjoyed without resorting to juvenile jokes that stereotype people. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

My thoughts exactly. For TF3 why not have a director who wants to be involved, instead of one who was convinced to ?

[kup]

The way I feel about Bay's attitude is that he hates the franchise and in turn us.

He has ridiculed Transformers and made fun of the fans almost any chance he gets so that speaks volumes on his attitude. I personally feel that he 'injects' the bad humor, characters and butchers the scripts on purpose in an attempt to further ridicule the fans because he knows that it doesn't matter if he has a Transformer dancing in a tutu, people will still go to watch by the masses bringing back a massive box office success.

Bay has repeatedly proven to be an egotistic jerk and antagonistic as well as an arrogant preak so I am inclined to believe the above based on his own behaviour and work.

[Lord_Zed]

That's going a bit to far. I can't imagine why he'd bother working on the film and making these despised allterations if he hated the franchise. He'd just do a half assed job, or hire some lackey to do it.

I can't really buy this Bay Hates Transformers conspiracy theory.

He is arrogant and egotistical though, of that there's no doubt. Though I'd be more inclined to say the atitude he displays toward the franchise in interviews and commentaries is more likely due wanting to always potray himself as some sort of mega cool director dude, he probaly has nightmares about being called a nerd. Much like all the big Hollywood stars when they get cast for these films (and not just TF's, the other franchise's too) Just seem to laugh off thier role as a bit of fun, or try to redirect the conversation to some other movie they've been working on.

[5FDP]

I tend to agree with Lord_Zed.

We all know and acknowledge Bay has made several questionable decisions in regards to the portrayal of the franchise, but there is no doubting his dedication.

I don't see him deliberately sabotaging Transformers and getting fans offside - I mean why would he when this is something that puts food on his table and petrol in his Lamborghini :D

If I were a director, I would want to make a film that appeals to the average consumer and fans alike to maximise my investment and return. Unfortunately, as with most things, you can't please everyone all of the time.

If the intent was to make a film targeted at the fans, you run the risk of segregating the casual moviegoer as the themes and mythos portrayed might not appeal to everyone.

I just accept the movies for what they are and appreciate the fact that without them, there would not be a renewed interest in the franchise potentially meaning no new product. For this, we should be thankful.

[kup]

I tend to agree with Lord_Zed.

We all know and acknowledge Bay has made several questionable decisions in regards to the portrayal of the franchise, but there is no doubting his dedication.

I don't see him deliberately sabotaging Transformers and getting fans offside - I mean why would he when this is something that puts food on his table and petrol in his Lamborghini :D

If I were a director, I would want to make a film that appeals to the average consumer and fans alike to maximise my investment and return. Unfortunately, as with most things, you can't please everyone all of the time.

If the intent was to make a film targeted at the fans, you run the risk of segregating the casual moviegoer as the themes and mythos portrayed might not appeal to everyone.

I just accept the movies for what they are and appreciate the fact that without them, there would not be a renewed interest in the franchise potentially meaning no new product. For this, we should be thankful.

He is not sabotaging as the movie is still a monumental success from a Box office return point of view and it has massively elevated his status in hollywood - The issue is that he simply doesn't care about the franchise and is willing to put in crap despite knowledge that it degrades the franchise and if fans get annoyed - well too bad you cry babies as I am doing it for the money and if I can annoy you its a bonus - That's how his attutude comes off like.

Replacing Sunstreaker and Sideswipe in the original draft of the script with the retard twins is an example of that.

His head lacky - Nelson is an embodyment of all that and the attitude really comes out through him too when dealing with the fans directly.

No one can deny that Bay has shown contempt in the past towards fans and dislike for the franchise.

I think that there are better ways to appeal to the general audience and fans alike than the 'explosions, sex appeal and no plot' bay method.

[SGB]

Not only should there be a change of directors, the movie franchise should be rebooted and given a fresh start.

[Sky Shadow]

Not only should there be a change of directors, the movie franchise should be rebooted and given a fresh start.

Personally, I just don't care anymore. I don't care about the Movie franchise's films, toys, comics, merchandise, etc. There has been no 'era' since 1984 that I've bought fewer Transformers off the shelf than this one. The only way it could rekindle my interest would be a Beast Wars or Masterforce style reboot: something that is theoretically in the same universe, but is otherwise a reimagining with a new core cast and a new status quo. My ideal film would have a new director, great writers (writing about the robots and not the humans), unhideous robot designs, and about fifty fewer bodily-function jokes per film. It's not going to happen, so I'm sure I'll continue to not care while Bay and Hasbro rake in the money - at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter one way or the other. :)

[Lord_Zed]

He is not sabotaging as the movie is still a monumental success from a Box office return point of view and it has massively elevated his status in hollywood - The issue is that he simply doesn't care about the franchise and is willing to put in crap despite knowledge that it degrades the franchise and if fans get annoyed - well too bad you cry babies as I am doing it for the money and if I can annoy you its a bonus - That's how his attutude comes off like.

Replacing Sunstreaker and Sideswipe in the original draft of the script with the retard twins is an example of that.

His head lacky - Nelson is an embodyment of all that and the attitude really comes out through him too when dealing with the fans directly.

No one can deny that Bay has shown contempt in the past towards fans and dislike for the franchise.


I still don't see this as an attack though, Nor do I think he dislikes the franchise per-se. I think it's more about his ego and about him wanting to create his own Bayverse. I don't think there's anything there to suggest he personaly adds stuff in because he know fans will hate it. I think rather he's just got such a big head that he come up with ideas that are great in his mind, and ofcourse his yes men certainly aren't going to stop him.

Kinda like when George Lucas decided it would be great if Greedo shot first, or someone in Hollywood decided that George Clooney would make a great Batman.




I think that there are better ways to appeal to the general audience and fans alike than the 'explosions, sex appeal and no plot' bay method.

There are, but they tend to be riskier gambles for rich Hollywood execs, and Bay certainly doesn't know what they are.