Martial Art Movies

[Pulse]

Man, I just plain luvre them. Especially the really bad ones. When I was a kid in the 80s, I just ate them up. I can recall watching the "American Ninja" films one after the other & after that came the "Kickboxer" movies with Van Damme and then Sasha Mitchell. As the next movie in the series was released, the worse the movies became - Now they were the days.

But I'd definitely have to say the best/worst of all the Martial Arts movies were the "No Retreat No Surrender" ones. For cheesesiness alone, they were awesome! I just lurved the second NRNS with Matthias Hues - he was the ultimate Bad Guy. Especially in these two scenes:

NRNS 2 Matthias Hues introduction http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-ABnOYW5fk
NRNS 2 Final Fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szjrbfkXXrA&feature=related

Then again, the final fight scene from the first "No Retreat No Surrender" with the Bruce Lee flashbacks (WTH!) was also filled with all kinds of awesomesauce too http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9_kC8gGW78

I know this may seem like a rubbish thread... but I lurve them & I'm sure there's more people than just me who would call themselves a fan of this genre.

[Pulse]

More great examples

Van Damme vs Atilla from "Wrong Bet" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO9sDcpKh2E

Sasha Mitchell vs Tong Po from "Kickboxer 4" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pItnQFOWZY0

Final Fight Scene from "No Retreat No Surrender 3" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVooqbXQZZ0

[GoktimusPrime]

*extreme shudder*

My recommendations would be:

+ Anything starring Mifune Toshiro <--best screen martial artist ever - and he works brilliantly with Kurosawa Akira
http://wirednewyork.com/forum/images/avatars/men2/toshiro_mifune.jpg
George Lucas had originall intended for Mifune to play the role of Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Battle from Yojimbo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU0lW2_rsEg&feature=related)
Mifune as Obi-Wan Kenobi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4FM6a5VAdQ&feature=related) :p

+ The Last of the Mohicans - excellent display of melee combat against and with pre-submachinegun firearms
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s95/bollywood_movies/TheLastoftheMohicans.jpg
final battle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifHuX3xuCwg)

+ The Lord of the Rings; especially Legolas who is very adept at switching between ranged to melee combat instantly (this is best seen in the Battle of Amon Hen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1y6zwB4OfA))
http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/thumb/c/cc/Legolas_at_Amon_Hen.jpg/250px-Legolas_at_Amon_Hen.jpg

[Pulse]

Thanks Mate. Some great moments of cinematography there. :) But, All in all, I'd have to say I'd rather non-weapon fighting over swords etc. It makes it seem just that much more fake - if you know what I mean. :D

Oh, & I really appreciate your honesty in admitting that you were a fan of these types of film genre too. Judging by the amount of people who opened this thread to take a look at it's content, I can tell there are quite a few whooses out there who just aren't ready to come out of the closet (but not in that sense of what you're thinking).

[springah]

LOTR? If LOTR is a martial arts movie, so is my favourite for now, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children.

Nobody on strings :)

[Tober]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned 'Bloodsport' yet. :D

'No Retreat, No Surrender' and 'The Karate Kid' were up the top when I was a kid too.

[springah]

I'm suprised no one has mentioned 'Bloodsport' yet. :D

'No Retreat, No Surrender' and 'The Karate Kid' were up the top when I was a kid too.

http://threeinchesofbloodsport.ytmnd.com/

[Pulse]

I guess the closet has begun to open up & a small trickle is turning into a river :D

I knew, on the inside, people were fans of these movies but were afraid to show their appreciation without fear of being teased by the so-called "bullies". :p

[springah]

Nah.. I think I'm now old enough to realise that most of what I watch is rubbish :)

[GoktimusPrime]

Oh, & I really appreciate your honesty in admitting that you were a fan of these types of film genre too. Judging by the amount of people who opened this thread to take a look at it's content, I can tell there are quite a few whooses out there who just aren't ready to come out of the closet (but not in that sense of what you're thinking).

Um... I don't think we're into the same kinds of martial arts movies. The kind of movies that you seem to like and have cited I would shudder at. I'm an open critic of Bruce Lee and his questionable theories on martial arts (but I'll leave that discussion for the martial arts thread).

The problem with me is that I look at movies through a martial artist's eyes and I can't help critically examining fight moves and there's this "bulls**t-meter" in my brain where the needle flies off the scale each time I watch most movies with any kind of melee fighting in it.

When it comes to martial arts movies, I tend to go for realism whereas you seem to be going more for... I don't know... fantasy? I'm not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing, but I think we do have very different tastes in terms of what we enjoy in a martial arts movie.

The problem is that the majority of movies with martial arts/melee fighting in it is complete bollocks - as springah says, it's rubbish. That's not to say that you can't enjoy it, but it would be for different reasons.

There are some movies that have completely stupid (in terms of being impossibly unrealistic) fight moves in it, but I enjoy watching them anyway. In such cases it would usually be because I enjoy the story rather than the action.

For me to also enjoy the action of a movie, it needs to be more realistic. That's why I enjoy the action in Transformers - it's messy, gritty, blurry and confusing as hell... like a real fight.


LOTR? If LOTR is a martial arts movie, so is my favourite for now
Martial = war, battle
Virtually all forms of "formalised" personal combat before the advent of the submachine gun are martial arts - armed or unarmed.
There's a scene in 300 which demonstrated the difference between trained martial artists (warriors - i.e.: the Spartans) in battle compared with non-martial artists (brawlers - i.e.: the Arcadians) in battle. Although the actual fighting techniques in this movie is all complete fantasy (it is based on a comic book after all) it does does illustrate at a basic level how martial artists and non-martial artists fare in a fight.

Spartans! What is your profession?!"

http://armchairgeneralist.typepad.com/my_weblog/images/2007_300_016.jpg
Spartans: the Greek equivalent of Samurai - a class of warriors bred for the primary occupation of war


I'm suprised no one has mentioned 'Bloodsport' yet.
I appreciate Bloodsport as the story of Frank Dux (not sure about it's historical accuracy as I've never really done any research about the guy and compared it with the film) - but I just cannot stand Jean Claude Van Damme. :/ And yeah... everything he does in that movie (and all his movies) is complete bollocks.


'No Retreat, No Surrender' and 'The Karate Kid' were up the top when I was a kid too.
Same... then I found out what real fighting is like. :p

"The Karate Kid" is a movie I still thoroughly enjoy though - great story with some home truthes about martial arts.

Daniel: Do you think you could break a log like that?
Miyagi: Don't know. Never been attacked by a tree.

Daniel: Hey - you ever get into fights when you were a kid?
Miyagi: Huh - plenty.
Daniel: Yeah, but it wasn't like the problem I have, right?
Miyagi: Why? Fighting fighting. Same same.
Daniel: Yeah, but you knew karate.
Miyagi: Someone always know more.
Daniel: You mean there were times when you were scared to fight?
Miyagi: Always scare. Miyagi hate fighting.
Daniel: Yeah, but you like karate.
Miyagi: So?
Daniel: So, karate's fighting. You train to fight.
Miyagi: That what you think?
Daniel: [pondering] No.
Miyagi: Then why train?
Daniel: [thinks] So I won't have to fight.
Miyagi: [laughs] Miyagi have hope for you.

Daniel: Hey, what kind of belt do you have?
Miyagi: Canvas. JC Penney, $3.98; You like?
Daniel: [laughs] No, I meant...
Miyagi: In Okinawa, belt mean no need rope to hold up pants.

[Saintly]

do we need to scrutinise jackie chan, jet li & steven segal?

[TheDirtyDigger]

Who's seen 'Musa - The Warrior' here?

Awesome Korean flick with Chinese princess Ziyi Zhang thrown in for good measure.

[Pulse]

Goktimus, I guess you could say that about me. The more impossibly unrealistic/over-the-top/outlandish fighting sequences - the better :D

[TheDirtyDigger]

Who's seen 'Musa - The Warrior' here?

Awesome Korean flick with Chinese princess Ziyi Zhang thrown in for good measure.

[GoktimusPrime]

do we need to scrutinise jackie chan, jet li & steven segal?
Isn't that what fans do? :p (moreso +internetz)

I like Jackie Chan. Jackie Chan isn't a martial artist and never claims to be. He's an acrobat and a great physical comedian in the same vein as Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton, only that his physical comedy is largely based on martial arts as his movies are spoofs of the "chop saki" genre. In interviews Jackie Chan talks about how he set out taking the mickey out of guys like Bruce Lee... when comparing himself with Lee in his movies he would say, "where he jumped high, I jump low," and "where he punch like this" (does a Bruce Lee style strong punch with a mean look on his face) "I punch like this" (does a quick punch before reeling his hand back in pain and nearly crying like a baby). My problem isn't so much with Jackie Chan but his ignorant or stupid fans who confuse his comedic antics for being martial arts - as in, they don't recognise parody when they see it. :/

Ditto Stephen Chow, but his parodies are so over the top that nobody ever confuses his routines for being actual martial arts (not when he's making up crazy kung fu styles like "Sleeping Fist" and "Shaolin Soccer" :p).

Jet Li was a martial artist - and before he became a star, he was pretty good. Mainly practised Drunken Boxing and he was a provincial champion in Shanghai by the age of 12 specialising in whip and flail weapons. I've seen videos of his early Kung Fu demonstrations and practice and it's quite good. Unfortunately I've never seen him do any real Kung Fu in his movies... ever.

For example, the movie Fearless is based on actual history (albeit loaded with historical inaccuracies) where Jet Li played the role of the famous Kung Fu practitioner Huo Yuanjia. In real life Huo practised a very obscure internal form of Long Fist called "Mizongyi" (which I think translates as "silk reeling"). Compare actual Mizongyi with Li's 'fighting' in Fearless...
Mizongyi (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=570&page=2)
Fearless (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_w3yG_l_5Dc) (music video)
Ironically the moves that the singer Jay Chou does in that music clip is more realistic than anything Jet Li does (Jay is performing a few moves from the "Tan Tui" (springing legs) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa8_-BSqgA&feature=related) form from Islamic Long Fist*, albeit modified with his dance form)

I strongly suspect that he's stopped practicing actual Kung Fu and has traded it for Modern Wushu (performance fighting used in movies etc). Not that I blame him - it's garnered him great success. But yeah, he's certainly not a martial artist anymore. Acting-wise Li works well in his native Chinese but suffers when they force him to speak English. Actors and singers seldomly perform well in languages that they're not fluent in - and even if they are, they seldomly perform as well in their second language as in their native tongue -- e.g.: although Jean Reno speaks good English, IMO he performs a lot better in his native French.

Steven Seagal is a practitioner of Aikido and he actually speaks fluent Japanese (he appears in a lot of Japanese TV commercials) and I've seen him do some Aikido demos on TV... not enough for me to gauge whether he's any good or not. The stuff he does in movies doesn't really impress me... and of course... there's his acting... (-_-)


Who's seen 'Musa - The Warrior' here?

Awesome Korean flick with Chinese princess Ziyi Zhang thrown in for good measure.
Yeah, that's another neat epic. The weird thing is that "musa" is Korean for "warrior" so the title is "Warrior the warrior." :p

In Sydney we used to have this Japanese festival every year called the Sydney Fiesta Matsuri Festival -- "fiesta" is Spanish for festival and "matsuri" is Japanese for festival, so it's the Sydney Festival Festival Festival. :p They festival still happens each year but I believe they've changed the name now. :p

____

*Islamic Long Fist: a form of Changquan (Long Fist) Kung Fu created by Muslims in Northern China; Muslim soldiers in Turkey were taught this form during The Crusades.

[Kyle]

Who's seen 'Musa - The Warrior' here?

Awesome Korean flick with Chinese princess Ziyi Zhang thrown in for good measure.

I've seen this one before. Liked it. But can't say I'm a fan of Zhang. :D