How do us as collectors grade figures?

[blackoptimus]

Evening everyone, I make this specific post for us all to share our ways of grading our vintage toys.

C-10 MISB
C-9 MINT, clean fresh just outta the box
C-8 Minor wear good shape not damages slightly dusty
C-7 Dusty 40%-65% wear okish (Still unbareable in my opinions)
C-6 Any condition below the form of C7 but no broken bits
C-5 Junker
C-4 Worser than C-5 junker
.........
Now how would we consider minor damages such as minor tire cracks from autobot cars? Small cracks in slots of scramble city combiner bots? Completely scratched out windows on figures with transparent windows E.G A car or Prime or seekers? Figure with plenty dirty/grim? etc. Lets continue this discussion as we go in depth of just the minorest damages....

[kup]

That's a good question since we all have our own standards on what makes a figure worth keeping or not. Some follow a pre stablished system similar to the one you listed, others have their own standards and some can be very forgiving.

For me, I would happily take in something that would otherwise be considered a junker if I see prospect of possibly completing or restoring the toy.

My G1 Prowl and Jazz were pretty borderline junker and my Red Alert was pretty much one but I managed to restore them to a dispayable condition as seen in my collection pics.

Another thing that some people consider a big factor if a toy is worthwhile or not are stickers - some people demand good quality vintage stickers on their toys. Personally I don't care for vintage stickers since I see them as being of poor quality to begin with as they are too vulnerable to damage/fading over time and see no value in them since I can always get reprolabels. I would happily choose the good condition toy with faded/damaged or no stickers if its reasonably cheaper than another of the same toy with good stickers.

[blackoptimus]

That's a good question since we all have our own standards on what makes a figure worth keeping or not. Some follow a pre stablished system similar to the one you listed, others have their own standards and some can be very forgiving.

For me, I would happily take in something that would otherwise be considered a junker if I see prospect of possibly completing or restoring the toy.

My G1 Prowl and Jazz were pretty borderline junker and my Red Alert was pretty much one but I managed to restore them to a dispayable condition as seen in my collection pics.

Another thing that some people consider a big factor if a toy is worthwhile or not are stickers - some people demand good quality vintage stickers on their toys. Personally I don't care for vintage stickers since I see them as being of poor quality to begin with as they are too vulnerable to damage/fading over time and see no value in them since I can always get reprolabels. I would happily choose the good condition toy with faded/damaged or no stickers if its reasonably cheaper than another of the same toy with good stickers.

Ohh... I see, so your more of a medic and enjoy the thrill of repairing. But what if the figure has worn chrome crap joints and major paint chipping as a junker? What would you do in that situation if it's dirt cheap, but as I said in really bad shape?? How would you come across repairing that? BTW how do factory's manage to make chrome paint? How come we can't make chrome paint?

[Defcon]

This is an interesting topic.
I like certain toys to be in near mint complete condition.

while others I don't mind incomplete as long as the plastic is in good shape ie. preferably no ageing or yellowing, sometimes this can't be helped.

Stickers can be really annoying especially when they have been applied incorrectly which is the worst! or if they are crooked. Worn stickers are tolerable, it dosen't hurt if a few are missing, the toy looks the better for it especially if the plastic is in good nick. I find the so called grading system to be inconsistant and vague. All I want to know is, tight joints yes or no. Rusty screws yes or no. Yellowing plastic yes or no, chrome wear if so how bad. Paint chips, plastic wear etc. To keep it simple how about

The following is ok for my collection.
Mint - Boxed never opened.
Near mint - fresh, almost never played with, tight joints
Played with -still good but has minor to moderate wear, loose joints

I prefer to not touch toys that have yellowing or rust, only if its minor and the price is right. I'm not into restoration. I have thought about customising but only on repaints, not the original character. I'm referring to cybertron repaints in particular. I would never customise a g1 figure!

[GoktimusPrime]

"C10" is something that seems to exist more in theory than in reality as it represents a toy that is utterly flawless. Not only must it be MISP but the packaging itself must if _flawless_; and not just to the naked eye. Many toy collectors will probe around a toy packaging with a magnifying glass to ensure that the packaging is free of even the smallest defects like miniature warping, bending, scrapes, scratches etc., meaning that even the most slightest defect means that the toy doesn't count as C10. Consequently the odds of finding a true C10 toy is like winning the lottery because virtually every toy has some kind of micro-flaw on the surface of its packaging. Remember that these toys are manufactured, assembled and packaged in a factory in China. It is then exposed to the rigours of shipping and handling from the factory to warehouses, shipped overseas and then domestically housed and distributed to stores. Then there's further handling by store staff when they unpack stock from palettes and shelve them. Then some stores will defile the packaging by putting a price sticker on it. The adhesive glue from the sticker leaves a residue... even if you can carefully peel the sticker off without damaging the package (and again, it often does more damage than is immediately noticeable to the naked eye) it does leave a residue. Some collectors will attempt to slowly and carefully remove this residue with a gentle alcohol/solvent rub but I've heard that it's nearly impossible to completely remove the residue entirely. Depends on how recently the sticker was attached and when you've unpeeled it I suppose.

This is why when you get a toy AFA graded (http://www.toygrader.com/), a really fantastic MISB or MOSC toy is usually given a C8 grading. C8 is a bloody GOOD rating. C9 is just fantastic... and as you might imagine, finding a true C10 is almost a pipe-dream. Usually when people refer to a toy as "C10" it's really C7 or C8.

Now having said that, it's important to note two things:
1/ Grading a sealed toy is different from grading a loose toy.
2/ The "C" grading system is highly subjective. As I've just pointed out, people have different definitions of what counts as "C10"; there's no universal standard.

So really, without a universal consensus, the C-grading system is bollocks. I personally don't pay attention to it when people use it since everyone has a different definition of what it means. I prefer to just look at photographs.

Here are some links about toy grading:
http://www.antiquetoys.com/adzoid/gradingguide.php3
http://www.toymania.com/resources/gradingguide/gradeintro.shtml
http://www.brianstoys.com/store/custom.aspx?id=4
http://texastoyman.com/vintage-toys/want-to-know-how-to-grade-your-%E2%80%98modern%E2%80%99-toys-as-well-as-future-toy-purchases/
http://www.rebelscum.com/wedge/grading.asp
http://www.howtodothings.com/hobbies/action-figure-collecting-an-introduction-to-action-figure-grading

...as you can see, everyone has a different opinion about what these grades mean!

[jgon2098]

For MISB/MOSC:

AFA: 3 subgrades - Box, Window (bubble), Figure. 2 Subgrades for no window MISB.

The overall grade is typically (not always) the lower of the 3 Subgrades.

The way they evaluate the overall grade is based on what the grader feel the item deserves on an overall basis. Not mathematically formulated. Needless to say, there exists a high degree of subjectivity and inconsistency as a result of this.


CSG: 6 Subgrades - Card quality, card colour, bubble quality, bubble transparency, figure quality figure colour. Clearly subjectivity still exists on the sub-grade level evaluations, but is removed for the overall grade. 2 Subgrades for no window MISB.

The overall grade is an average of all the subgrades.

If the card is unpunched. That will also be accounted for in the labeling, and yes it matters to some people.

There is another grading company in the UK, but its not very well-known so I'm not gonna bother discussing their methods.

Regardless of who grades what there will always be subjectivity. Its inevitable. However many MOSC/MISB collectors have chosen a certain standard to go by, they feel that there is a greater sense of objectivity and the confirmation of non-tampering/double-taping/factory tape sealing is worth paying the extra dough for.

Similarly to an extent when you are contemplating on purchasing a "non-misb/mosc" figure/mib. The buyer presents his standard, and you as the buyer decides wether its believable or not, pictures dont tell everything. i.e. looseness of joints, ink-tampering etc. Smart-photography can be very very deceiving. Sometimes without downloading the pic yourself and increasing the brightness of the picture, often you cannot see many significant wears to a box or flap.

[kup]

Ohh... I see, so your more of a medic and enjoy the thrill of repairing. But what if the figure has worn chrome crap joints and major paint chipping as a junker? What would you do in that situation if it's dirt cheap, but as I said in really bad shape?? How would you come across repairing that? BTW how do factory's manage to make chrome paint? How come we can't make chrome paint?

Loose joints - Ridiculously easy to fix at a point that I don't even consider them a factor. A 2 minute job.

Repairing chipped paint - easy fix on most figures unless its on a large metallic surface (like binaltech). My Sunstreaker was severely chipped and now I cannot even notice where the chips were.

Chrome wear - The only thing that cannot be properly restored, only improved upon from a worn look by using silver paint but it will lack shine. However that magical chrome paint could be a solution to that.

[GoktimusPrime]

If the card is unpunched. That will also be accounted for in the labeling, and yes it matters to some people.

That's a good point. Although most carded TFs seem to have "J-hook" holes now so punch v. unpunched may not be as relevant for more recent toys. Although the part of the card which is in contact with the peg is susceptible to damage; I frequently come across carded toys where that part of the card has been damaged or destroyed and stores have to replace them with a plastic tab with a hole so it can be re-pegged.

[TheDirtyDigger]

I find the so called grading system to be inconsistant and vague. All I want to know is, tight joints yes or no. Rusty screws yes or no. Yellowing plastic yes or no, chrome wear if so how bad. Paint chips, plastic wear etc.

I agree with this.

[1orion2many]

Grading is very ambiguous as demonstrated when you buy things off ebay. The variation with an honest person I find with my opinion isn't that great but the dishonest dealer can really stray off the mark and only take pics showing the item so the faults are hidden. C10 is a straight forward pristine condition like new but anything below that can vary. I in general don't grade my items as such I'm just happy if they are complete with no sun damage or chrome wear, after that I can always get replacement stickers if needed on quite a few figures nowadays;).

[kup]

On Ebay everything is a C8 or above even if it has no accessories and sometimes missing limbs!

It's common to read descriptions like this: "It has worn chrome, chipped paint and no accessories but its otherwise in C8 condition."

Of course sometimes they don't even offer a description and just dump you with a 'As pictured - C8'

[GoktimusPrime]

haha, yeah so true. It's like saying that my entire collection is C10, except for all the flaws, fading, damage, missing accessories, worn stickers etc. Ignoring all that they're in pristine mint condition! :p :D

In my personal TF collection spreadsheet I have one column for condition and I just have MOSC, MISB, Excellent, Very Good, Good, Fair, Poor. That's it. ;)

[blackoptimus]

Do people keep figures with hair line cracks?

[GoktimusPrime]

Depends on how much was paid for it and whether it was purchased sealed or loose.

[blackoptimus]

Depends on how much was paid for it and whether it was purchased sealed or loose.

$20 G1 rewind, I only noticed the hair line crack today.

[blackoptimus]

On Ebay everything is a C8 or above even if it has no accessories and sometimes missing limbs!

It's common to read descriptions like this: "It has worn chrome, chipped paint and no accessories but its otherwise in C8 condition."

Of course sometimes they don't even offer a description and just dump you with a 'As pictured - C8'

I made my self a policy, All screws and pins intact with no rust. Not a repaired figure, Clean and crispy condition, no paint chips and overall C8.5+.

[GoktimusPrime]

Meh... toys are for playing with and they'll eventually sustain some damage. Wounds of war to be worn with pride!

[liegeprime]

Do people keep figures with hair line cracks?

yep especially if that figure is hard to come by, or is expensive to replace but still works... my Dreadwind has a crack on its knee but was glued horrendously by the previous owner, and I still keep it coz the rest of it is good condition. I will eventually replace it , if I do find a reasonably priced better, unbroken piece but not on top of my priority list. I consider it, well sort of a part of the toy's charm of being a vintage piece... battle scar as Gok puts it. its not a junker piece but its not a perfect one at that as well..... Im not so strict with myself in my G1 collecting figures as long as it functions, not fully dilapidated, nothing extremely broken or bothersomely parts missing, Im good with it. So mine ranges from a C6-C8 I guess but hey Im not fussed.:D

[kup]

I made my self a policy, All screws and pins intact with no rust. Not a repaired figure, Clean and crispy condition, no paint chips and overall C8.5+.

I am sure that will eventually change just like no reprolabels and must have paperwork.

Dude, if you are going to collect loose vintage toys you have to learn to compromise and be flexible about it by balancing out acceptable level of condition, rarity or level of completeness. If you don't then you will constantly find yourself breaking your self imposed rules unless you are only buying MISB or MISC toys.

Example: A Dreadwind and Darkwing set complete and loose costs a large amount of money or a freaking fortune if in box with all paperwork and flawless stickers. What I did: I bought Darkwing and Dreadwind with powermasters but no weapons for very cheap. Later on I secured the set weapons because I knew that it was possible to do so as I did my research and had foresight.

Overall I paid like less than half of the usual going price of a complete Dreadwind and Darkwing set by being flexible, knowing how to compromise and be smart about it otherwise I would have passed on a great opportunities and ended up paying $200-$250 for a set.

Another example of a good compromise I made is Horri-bull, the bastard goes for like US$150 for a complete piece. I got mine for $30. Why? It had a repaired Bull neck which is hardly noticeable. I also got Bumblejumper for like $30 (typical cost over $100) because he had rusted wheels which I was able to fix.

You have to learn to be flexible about collecting loose figures based on rarity and market cost otherwise you will miss out on a lot of opportunities in your collecting. Don't make predefined rules to judge all figures you get but judge each individual piece by its own merits based on the factors mentioned. Another thing to take into consideration is that realistically, second hand toys are not going to be flawless unless they are sealed in box/card.

Personally, the condition of a figure only affects me if there is something broken off or missing. I can deal with repaired, cracked, rusted or discolored as that you can work with since the figure is otherwise intact.

[GoktimusPrime]

...unless he's willing to pay through the nose for all those perfect mint complete G1 toys with tech spec decoders. He's gonna need a high paying job for that so he might wanna start now (places like Maccas, Dominos etc. will hire kids his age) and aim to get into a high paying profession.

[blackoptimus]

I buy complete toys now, I gave up the all paperwork thingy because it's all easily found at tfland.com so yeah.

[TheHandsomeCrab]

The C-system is utterly worthless because 1) everyone makes up their own levels (like in this very thread - "C-9 MINT", I'm sorry, what? Nothing below C-10 should ever be called mint. Very few people in this fandom seem to understand what mint actually means), 2) When you get down to C-1 and C-2, what the hell is the difference? and 3) Nobody ever grades anything below C-7 anyway.

I use pretty much the same system as Gok in my own collection Spreadsheets (We're nearly as anally retentive as each other! Who'da thunk it?), with this Legend at the top of every worksheet:

MISB - Mint In Sealed Box
MIB - Mint In (unsealed) Box
MOSC - Mint On Sealed Card
M - Mint: Never transformed, flawless.
NM - Near Mint: Handled by a collector only, no signs of wear
E - Excellent: Slight signs of wear only
VG - Very Good: Mild wear to paint/stickers, no damage
G - Good: Shows mild to moderate signs of wear but unbroken
F - Fair: Moderately worn, may be damaged but not severely

My personal rules are no repro stickers or parts, original only. I don't give a damn if something's complete or not. With boxes/paperwork, they have to be in excellent condition - Nothing cut out, no rips, dents etc., maybe a slight flap crease if the flap stands straight but even then preferably not. With loose figures if it's not above VG (preferably E) I won't bother. The only time I make exceptions is if it's something exceptionally hard to find like a Diaclone/Pre-TF, Milton Bradley or Latin American release.

Edit: As an example, the red-faced Canadian Slag I picked up at BotCon (in-YOUR-endo) is only in Good condition at best, but do you have any idea how hard they are to get? Especially if you don't live in North America. Shut up Griffin it's not a bootleg goddamnit.