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ecl27
30th December 2009, 02:04 AM
Man never thought they had so many KO. Didnt know they had springer, cassettes, Sunstreaker and even Reflector. Damn too scared to buy off ebay these days.

http://stores.shop.ebay.com.au/xwr-1224__W0QQ_armrsZ1

5FDP
30th December 2009, 04:28 PM
The cassettes and Reflector have been around for a while now, however Springer and Sunstreaker are relatively new.

The best advice I can give is to avoid buying loose figures if you can because many of these are hard to spot when out-of-the-box if you aren't aware of the slight differences. If it's something you really want, request additional photos / information from the seller.

heroic_decepticon
30th December 2009, 04:46 PM
The cassettes and Reflector have been around for a while now, however Springer and Sunstreaker are relatively new.

The best advice I can give is to avoid buying loose figures if you can because many of these are hard to spot when out-of-the-box if you aren't aware of the slight differences. If it's something you really want, request additional photos / information from the seller.

good advice. very often you can't even tell they are KO by looking at photos of loose specimens. You'd have to physically hold them to tell, but by then, it would be too late.

GoktimusPrime
31st December 2009, 08:36 AM
Unless the loose figure has some form of minor aging or play wear. But I've heard that some KO sellers artificially age their toys on purpose. :(

1AZRAEL1
31st December 2009, 10:17 AM
Unless the loose figure has some form of minor aging or play wear. But I've heard that some KO sellers artificially age their toys on purpose. :(

I have heard that also, and would not even be suprised if they did that. They just want to sell their cheap cr@p KO's and don't care about who buys it. They would have caught on that people would look for signs of aging, normally that's what I would look for. Even in this day and age we have to be careful of that as well.

heroic_decepticon
31st December 2009, 11:06 AM
so now buyers can't even get a mint toy without feeling secured that its not a KO. They have to settled for an 'aged' toy, which still might be a KO in the end.

Man, this KO BS is f**k up.

1AZRAEL1
31st December 2009, 11:16 AM
so now buyers can't even get a mint toy without feeling secured that its not a KO. They have to settled for an 'aged' toy, which still might be a KO in the end.

Man, this KO BS is f**k up.

Yea, kinda makes me not want to buy figures anymore for the simple fact it could turn out to be fake.

5FDP
31st December 2009, 01:32 PM
I've also heard that dishonest sellers artificially age the KO's to make them look more legit, but this mostly applies with the boxes and cardbacks. If they don't sell, then they are removed from the packaging to make it harder to tell if it's fake or not.

It used to be that I would avoid buying from China, but obviously the more KO's these counterfeiters make and sell, the more chance there is of bootlegged toys making their way into the hands of the unaware, and honest sellers no matter which country you buy from.

heroic_decepticon
31st December 2009, 02:14 PM
yeah, KOs have found their way to most of Asia, the US and surprisingly even the UK. It's appalling the number of "MIB Reflectors" UK sellers seem to be selling when I last looked a couple of months ago.

Skullcruncher
31st December 2009, 02:32 PM
KO's drive me nuts - I think the worst is shockwave so hard to tell, was going to upload a comparison pic but cant find the manage attachments button/icon! When I started collecting I wanted a MIB Refletor but that dream went long ago :(

Hey this is my first post! Awesome!:D

heroic_decepticon
31st December 2009, 02:38 PM
welcome to the Boards!

Yup, I too have shelved my intention of upgrading to an MIB Reflector...

5FDP
31st December 2009, 02:48 PM
Welcome to the boards. You can post a full introduction here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=3).


KO's drive me nuts - I think the worst is shockwave so hard to tell, was going to upload a comparison pic but cant find the manage attachments button/icon!

To post a pic, you can use Imageshack. Just add and before and after the URL so it displays the image. There are other methods as well.

The easiest way to tell if a Shockwave is a KO or not, is the screws. The KO has silver screws while the original has black ones. Also, the hose is shorter on the KO.

Skullcruncher
31st December 2009, 03:00 PM
Welcome to the boards. You can post a full introduction here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=3).



To post a pic, you can use Imageshack. Just add and before and after the URL so it displays the image. There are other methods as well.

The easiest way to tell if a Shockwave is a KO or not, is the screws. The KO has silver screws while the original has black ones. Also, the hose is shorter on the KO.

Thanks will do a shout out shortly. I have come accross old shockwaves that have had there screws replaced with new shiny ones and seen images of the knock offs where the screws 'appear' black or very dark. Hes a comple of comparisons - original in the small square bubbles

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7440/shockwavei.jpg (http://img35.imageshack.us/i/shockwavei.jpg/)

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3697/shockwave2.jpg (http://img707.imageshack.us/i/shockwave2.jpg/)

5FDP
31st December 2009, 03:11 PM
The other obvious tell with the above Shockwave is the purple gun barrel - the original Hasbro release had a grey barrel. Be aware though that there is a grey barrel KO doing the rounds as well.

Skullcruncher
31st December 2009, 03:16 PM
Yeah but how many on ebay come loose without the barrel! Just another case of buyer beware and do your reseach before the last few mins of an auction!

Jetfire
31st December 2009, 03:22 PM
I recently noticed a KO wheeljack sell for a 110 or something , don't have link atm but if you search completed you will see them.. I reported it but nothing will happen, I feel sorry for these people getting duped.. You used to be able to contact the buyer and give them a heads up but with the new privacy changes stopped that.

Many people were very grateful that I contacted them.

eBay are evil Corp headed by Dr. Evil. That became even truer when they tried on their paypal only bs. I remember they had a spokesperson on one of those morning shows and nobody including the presenter was buying into their argument.

langzixinxin
7th January 2010, 06:26 PM
Hey guys, take it easy.

They won't fool anyone, KO is very easy to identify. Just look at these facts:

We take that KO Slag as example,

1, There is no G1 slag reissue, right?
2, If there is one, it wont be in English box right?

3, This slag sells 60AUD, multiply by 6, which is 360 Chinese currency dollar. A same KO toy in China sells 160 Chinese dollars, so if you buy on ebay AU, you pay 200 chinese dollars for shipping (though it says freeshipping). It sounds reasonable 200 chinese dollar is roughly 30AUD. So airmail from HK, china they usually charge 30 bucks. You pay what you got. Of course the seller should tell people this is KO. I noticed he use "remake", but this is vague.

I am in china for holiday, I just bought two KOs, scourge and Sharkticon Gnaw. The quality is alright to play, but lower than original. Gnaw is very cute.

I sent a message to that seller in English to ask whether this is KO, just test his honesty.

My point here is, if you have a G1 slag but missing one leg, just buy a KO to screw his leg on. 60AUD is what you pay for that KO. If it is a re-issue, it won't be 60, and it will be in Japanese box (still, no confusion).


So as long as sellers don't use KO to cheat people, i think it's fine.

5FDP
7th January 2010, 06:42 PM
So as long as sellers don't use KO to cheat people, i think it's fine.

*runs for the hills*

1AZRAEL1
7th January 2010, 08:52 PM
So as long as sellers don't use KO to cheat people, i think it's fine.

Matey, you may open up a can of worms on this topic haha. Numerous times KO's have been discussed.


*runs for the hills*

Funny, I was going to say something similar :p
Though to continue it "run for your livessssss"*

*Iron Maiden reference :p

kup
7th January 2010, 09:17 PM
The cassettes and Reflector have been around for a while now, however Springer and Sunstreaker are relatively new.



When I first got my Reflector, I freaked - I thought that I had a KO as it has some differences to other Reflectors I had seen. Luckily I checked mine in the variations page (which went down when Geocities did) and it was just a variation rather than a KO.

1AZRAEL1
7th January 2010, 09:19 PM
When I first got my Reflector, I freaked - I thought that I had a KO as it has some differences to other Reflectors I had seen. Luckily I checked mine in the variations page (which went down when Geocities did) and it was just a variation rather than a KO.

I don't even know if mine is legit either. I think it is but I can't be sure. It's too late for me to take any photos, but what are the telltale signs?

5FDP
7th January 2010, 09:30 PM
When I first got my Reflector, I freaked - I thought that I had a KO as it has some differences to other Reflectors I had seen. Luckily I checked mine in the variations page (which went down when Geocities did) and it was just a variation rather than a KO.

Is yours the Camera Robo Microx?

I'd be interested to hear what differences you found as an out of the box KO Reflector is difficult to tell apart from a real one.

The only differences that I know of are - factory stickers are not applied, and the missle tree is different.

1AZRAEL1
7th January 2010, 09:43 PM
Luckily I checked mine in the variations page (which went down when Geocities did) and it was just a variation rather than a KO.


Is yours the Camera Robo Microx?

Kup's is just a variant of the original, not a KO. Though you are right that they are hard to tell apart.

5FDP
7th January 2010, 09:57 PM
Kup's is just a variant of the original, not a KO. Though you are right that they are hard to tell apart.

I wasn't referring to the KO Microx but rather this one (http://www.microforever.com/MC05Microx.htm) which is legit.

There is a KO Microx; you are right, but it is only distinguishable with its english text packaging (the real one has japanese text).

Sorry if I wasn't clear :o

1AZRAEL1
7th January 2010, 10:01 PM
I wasn't referring to the KO Microx but rather this one (http://www.microforever.com/MC05Microx.htm).

There is a KO Microx; you are right, but it is only distinguishable with its english text packaging (the real one has japanese text).

Sorry if I wasn't clear :o

Ah, my bad, I did not realise what you meant :o

kup
7th January 2010, 10:05 PM
It's been a couple of years since I did the verification so I can't remember but it is very subtle as the KO is supposed to be of very high quality and a close match. I can't be sure but I think the differences were more to do with screw types and subtle weapons detailing.

From what I recal there were two variations of a legit Hasbro/Takara released Reflector:

- With modified weapons that do not have any gaps like the one here (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Vintage-G1-Transformers-Reflector-Spyglass-Gun_W0QQitemZ150398920345QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Def aultDomain_0?hash=item2304796699)

- With weapons that are identical to the original Microman release like this one (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/REFLECTOR-SPYGLASS-GUN-LASER-RIFLE-G1-TRANSFORMERS_W0QQitemZ200397720569QQcmdZViewItemQQ ptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2ea8a28bf9)

The legit Reflector variations only have their differences in their weapons, I think that the Japanese release of Reflector (for Transformers not Microman) was the one with the unmodified Diaclone weapons variant from what I remember.

The Microx (and KO) has the obvious difference of having a Microman sticker on Viewfinder while the real one says 'Reflector' on it but since its just a sticker it doesn't really count as proper verification.

I wish Geocities had not gone down or we would still be able to directly reference that variations page for more accurate information :(


I wasn't referring to the KO Microx but rather this one (http://www.microforever.com/MC05Microx.htm) which is legit.


As I mentioned, I have one of the two variations of the Transformers G1 released Reflector but I do not have the legit Microx release. However the version that i have is closer to the Microx release due to the weapons not being bloated but that's it.

5FDP
7th January 2010, 10:19 PM
Thanks Kup. I'm a little worried about my shutter gun for Spectro.

I wanted to pose him in my cabinet holding his gun, but changed my mind later and removed it. The 'handle' snapped off into the peg hole :eek:

I bought a replacement on Ebay but the plastic quality seems different to the one I had (it seems lighter).

Any chance that you know how to tell if it is a fake?

1AZRAEL1
7th January 2010, 10:20 PM
I got the frst one, so does that mean I got Hasbro or Takara Version?

True about the stickers, you can't be too careful. But my (middle guy) has the rub symbol that has not been tampered with, so I would guess I got a legit one which is a relief.

1AZRAEL1
7th January 2010, 10:22 PM
Thanks Kup. I'm a little worried about my shutter gun for Spectro.

I wanted to pose him in my cabinet holding his gun, but changed my mind later and removed it. The 'handle' snapped off into the peg hole :eek:

I bought a replacement on Ebay but the plastic quality seems different to the one I had (it seems lighter).

Any chance that you know how to tell if it is a fake?

If it seems lower quality, I'm only speculating, but it maybe a KO.

kup
7th January 2010, 11:56 PM
Any chance that you know how to tell if it is a fake?

I am afraid that without consulting to the now gone Geocities verifications page, all that I can do is speculate.

A broken gun peg can happen to any version of Reflector, both legit and KO since the pegs are very thing while the weapons are very large. However I have dropped my Reflector I don't know how many times from the shelf and the guns have never broken.

After I broke one of my Darkwing gun pegs, I made a rule never to push a G1 gun too far into the peg hole - Only enough for him to hold it firmly. Thankfully I managed to secure a new gun at the Parra Fair.

5FDP
8th January 2010, 07:23 AM
No worries. Thanks Kup :)

I'm not all that fussed about it cause it's only his weapon. The seller told me that it was a legit shutter gun so maybe it's just a little faded after being displayed too close to a window.

The quality seems spot-on as far as plastic used.

The worst thing about KO's is not the toy itself, but when the accessories are sold loose because there is almost no way of telling.

Skullcruncher
8th January 2010, 08:47 AM
I know the Microx flash cube does not sit nice and snug on the peg(whats his names head) and the quality is alot worse than hasbro/takara one. The chrome on the legs is also a bit differnet. Cant compare now as I sold it for $5. lol

Not sure about the KO - touch wood I will never find out in person! :)

There is a reflector on AU Ebay at the moment http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280446746020&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

At the bottom seller said they found him in a garage sale.

5FDP
8th January 2010, 08:54 AM
At the bottom seller said they found him in a garage sale.

LMAO... a "garage sale". That's great :D

I once found one that fell off the back of a truck ;)

DarkHyren
8th January 2010, 09:16 AM
Man never thought they had so many KO. Didnt know they had springer, cassettes, Sunstreaker and even Reflector. Damn too scared to buy off ebay these days.

http://stores.shop.ebay.com.au/xwr-1224__W0QQ_armrsZ1
I reported all this guys fakes just the other day myself, stumbled across him while looking for Grimlock.
It makes me sorta sad that soon at least 5 more people will be getting their dinobot "Bommander" and probally don't even know he's a fake.

5FDP
8th January 2010, 09:28 AM
I'm shocked that Ebay haven't done anything about this seller... or pehaps not.

Check out some of his feedback -


Bought as replacements - they were counterfits! Avoid buying these headphones.

They Are Not Original For My Friend Does Have Them And Mine Is Realy Cheap

very fast delivery but the product was a knockoff broke in a month

This is Not An Original Product This is the Fake Version.

Product seems like B grade than the one I purchased 5 yrs ago.

:mad:

canofwhoopass_87
8th January 2010, 02:27 PM
I've turned to smaller online stores that I can trust for my "knocked off" G1 items. Ebay is getting pretty bad these days.

5FDP can I suggest

http://roboticplanet.com/store/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=b3aced3f040c870c0487967b7a3a9fe3&keyword=shutter

This guy really knows his stuff and sells 100% vintage goods only; I've bought heaps from his store. He's pretty big in the tfw2005 community as well. You could email him and ask a couple of questions if you're iffy though..or maybe even explain your situation :)

Hope that helped

5FDP
8th January 2010, 02:45 PM
I've turned to smaller online stores that I can trust for my "knocked off" G1 items. Ebay is getting pretty bad these days.

5FDP can I suggest

http://roboticplanet.com/store/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&search_in_description=1&zenid=b3aced3f040c870c0487967b7a3a9fe3&keyword=shutter

This guy really knows his stuff and sells 100% vintage goods only; I've bought heaps from his store. He's pretty big in the tfw2005 community as well. You could email him and ask a couple of questions if you're iffy though..or maybe even explain your situation :)

Hope that helped

Cheers mate. That's a big help :)

heroic_decepticon
9th January 2010, 02:28 PM
gosh, with all these Reflector discussion, I'm sure glad I bought mine in 1999 before all the KOs started popping out of the woodwork. Still, I'm pretty pissed that I now will never be able to get an MIB Reflector and be confident its not a KO or has KO parts.

canofwhoopass_87
9th January 2010, 02:35 PM
Yeh reflector makes me really apprehensive about collecting the 84 G1 line. Of all the KO's, this little set has me worried most. High pricetag and crap floating around everywhere. Don't think I'll ever get one of these now

5FDP
9th January 2010, 02:43 PM
Yeh reflector makes me really apprehensive about collecting the 84 G1 line. Of all the KO's, this little set has me worried most. High pricetag and crap floating around everywhere. Don't think I'll ever get one of these now

I resigned myself to that fact too sometime ago and then as fate would have it, my neighbour who I had known for a very short time, told me that he kept all of his old Transformers in a box within his garage. Low and behold, Reflector was one of them.

I told the wife that it was the happiest day of my life... and then I had to quickly retract that statement after seeing the look on her face.

heroic_decepticon
9th January 2010, 03:32 PM
I told the wife that it was the happiest day of my life...

"oops" was what I thought before I finished reading your sentence here...


... and then I had to quickly retract that statement after seeing the look on her face.

Anyway, I saw 2 MIB Jap box Reflectors in Japan if anyone is willing to go there and shell out AU$789 for a MISB C9 Jap box one or AU$500 for a C6.5 Jap box and C9 toys set...

Anyway, I'm back from Tokyo and have lots to report... soon.

Autocon
9th January 2010, 04:17 PM
you dont think theyll ever KO bws do you?

5FDP
9th January 2010, 04:35 PM
you dont think theyll ever KO bws do you?

Sadly, they already are...

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1179/45417181.jpg

heroic_decepticon
9th January 2010, 10:30 PM
KO-ing BWs... that's pretty desperate :eek:

kup
9th January 2010, 11:28 PM
KO-ing BWs... that's pretty desperate :eek:

Don't be so sure, there is a fair bit of demand out there including this board to make them worthwhile, particularly some releases. The thing about BW figures is that despite them being fairly popular, they seemed to had a massive production run as there are plenty circulating in the market and therefore with the exception of a few figures, they aren't overly expensive. The fact that they are by far more durable than G1 figures also acts to their market quantities as many samples are in good condition.

The only BW KOs that I was previously aware of were the original Rattrap. That guy goes for a fair bit of money, specially when complete. Thankfully nobody has KOed X-9 Ravage.

griffin
9th January 2010, 11:45 PM
gosh, with all these Reflector discussion, I'm sure glad I bought mine in 1999 before all the KOs started popping out of the woodwork. Still, I'm pretty pissed that I now will never be able to get an MIB Reflector and be confident its not a KO or has KO parts.

Nor would anyone with a legit MIB Reflector (or any KOed figure) get a good price for something that should be worth 10+ times the value if KOs didn't scare off potential buyers.

1AZRAEL1
10th January 2010, 09:04 AM
Nor would anyone with a legit MIB Reflector (or any KOed figure) get a good price for something that should be worth 10+ times the value if KOs didn't scare off potential buyers.

It did scare me off for a while there, but I was lucky to get one for AU$150 a little while back. Still want him checked out by people on here to make sure he is not a KO. And because of Ebay's stance on KO's being so lacking that alot still gets through, it makes me not want to buy figures off Ebay for the fact that the ones I am missing have all been KO'd. I'd rather buy from people face to face (or people from here as I know they can be trusted)

5FDP
10th January 2010, 09:57 AM
It's the same for me with G1 Devastator. I would love to have all the original Constructicons but they have been KO'd that many times, that the second-hand market is flooded with counterfeits.

It's the reason why I recently purchased my MOSC Scrapper as up until recently, that was the only way I was going to own them all. It gets very expensive as you can imagine.

Luckily I just purchased Scrapper prior to the KO Constructicons being made although there are ways to tell which ones are fake unlike a MIB Reflector with stickers applied.

I've now given up hope of ever owning a legit Devastator :(

kup
10th January 2010, 10:15 AM
It's the same for me with G1 Devastator. I would love to have all the original Constructicons but they have been KO'd that many times, that the second-hand market is flooded with counterfeits.

It's the reason why I recently purchased my MOSC Scrapper as up until recently, that was the only way I was going to own them all. It gets very expensive as you can imagine.

Luckily I just purchased Scrapper prior to the KO Constructicons being made although there are ways to tell which ones are fake unlike a MIB Reflector with stickers applied.

I've now given up hope of ever owning a legit Devastator :(

I collected my Constructicons not through Ebay but the Parra Fair. Loose samples being sold by local second hand toy sellers are very unlikely to be KO and since you can inspect them in person before buying, you can be sure that its legit. The accessories were mostly from trusted sellers like therawhyde.

It took me a long time but I managed to do it.

1AZRAEL1
10th January 2010, 10:25 AM
I collected my Constructicons not through Ebay but the Parra Fair. Loose samples being sold by local second hand toy sellers are very unlikely to be KO and since you can inspect them in person before buying, you can be sure that its legit. The accessories were mostly from trusted sellers like therawhyde.

It took me a long time but I managed to do it.

Plus at Parra Fair, there are alot of us that can help you identify if its a KO or not. But your right, there aren't many there. I did see a full KO set there a while back, wanted 30 for it :confused:

5FDP
10th January 2010, 11:06 AM
Yeah, I've seen a few loose Constructicons at the Parra Fair but the condition of them wasn't all that great.

I too have also seen KO's at the Fair (last November)... there was a loose / bagged Computron and Defensor selling on the main stage for about $20.

1AZRAEL1
10th January 2010, 12:14 PM
Yeah, I've seen a few loose Constructicons at the Parra Fair but the condition of them wasn't all that great.

I too have also seen KO's at the Fair (last November)... there was a loose / bagged Computron and Defensor selling on the main stage for about $20.

Yea those ones were really obvious haha. Wrong limbs, wrong colours. Looked terrible. Havent seen a Dev KO there in a while though. There are a number of G1 Constructicons there, but like you said, they are usually not in great condition. Should get Jamie to track a decent set down for ya.

kup
11th January 2010, 10:39 AM
Yeah, I've seen a few loose Constructicons at the Parra Fair but the condition of them wasn't all that great.

I too have also seen KO's at the Fair (last November)... there was a loose / bagged Computron and Defensor selling on the main stage for about $20.

Hook was a real hard one to find. Most of the ones I came across were snapped or with missing arms. Finally I found one that wasn't too bad and repaired it - The previous Hook I owned had a prosthetic KO arm that stood out badly as it was bright green.

It took me over 2 years to Complete Devastator - I had a KO set and slowly begun to replace limbs and parts of it with real ones bit by bit until I finally managed a legit complete set with legit weapons and accessories. You can see my 'in progress' Frankenstainy Devastator in my earlier collection pics.

Yeah, I haven't seen many legit Constructicons recently at the fair but I haven't really been looking.

5FDP
11th January 2010, 10:44 AM
The previous Hook I owned had a prosthetic KO arm that stood out badly as it was bright green.


Isn't he the guy that killed Richard Kimble's wife? :rolleyes:

GoktimusPrime
11th January 2010, 11:34 AM
Beast Wars KOs have been around since Beast Wars began. It's nothing new. One of the funniest BW KOs I've seen is an oversized KO of Basic Optimus Primal... it's the size of a Deluxe and doesn't even transform properly. The transformation just involves flipping the bat head/robot chest up and down and that's it! The "bat" mode is just the robot mode with a bat head. :eek:

kup
11th January 2010, 11:38 AM
Beast Wars KOs have been around since Beast Wars began. It's nothing new.

Yeah but thankfully they are no where near as common as G1 KOs and not many of them are 'accurate'. It is very unlikely that you will buy a loose BW figure and get a KO instead.

The only KO you really have to watchout for is the original Rattrap, specially if you only have a passing familiarity with the real toy.