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View Full Version : More KOs to be careful of - G1 Sideswipe, Red Alert, Defensor



griffin
26th February 2010, 09:36 PM
Coming very soon are counterfiet Gen1 Red Alert, Sideswipe and Defensor gift set.

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/generation-1-1/buyer-beware---three-more-generation-1-knockoffs-169228/

Each is apparently easy to spot as a fake when in packaging because the factory stickers are not applied, but once they hit ebay by the more deceitful sellers, they might be hard to spot out of packaging with all stickers applied.

Comments at that link raise a sad point - there is so much demand for these fake toys now that they are often being sold for more than a genuine reissue (just because of the packaging I guess).

blackie
26th February 2010, 09:48 PM
prowl has been out for ages.
people just forget cause hes crap

griffin
26th February 2010, 09:51 PM
Oops, I meant Red Alert, like in the title. (have fixed the post now).

liegeprime
26th February 2010, 10:54 PM
:(:(:(:(. Ive gotten these guys already thank goodness. This will make it harder for those still trying to collect the G1 stuff. they might end up buying loose Ko's of these guys , Aaaaw. Bad bad bad!

5FDP
27th February 2010, 04:53 PM
Don't understand the need for a KO Sideswipe and Red Alert :confused: They've been reissued quite extensively.

Sky Shadow
27th February 2010, 05:44 PM
Aarrggh! I instinctively started reading the ensuing discussion on TFW2005. My eyes! MY EYES!

...

Anyway, those pictures made me think of something. I have a MOSC Streetwise that I've never opened because I thought he was yellowed, but what colour is he supposed to be anyway? He's not white compared to First Aid and Groove, certainly. Maybe mine's not yellowed like I thought.

Sky Shadow
27th February 2010, 06:01 PM
And is that 'authentic' real polystyrene that they've used for Defensor? Being environmentally unfriendly in the eighties was due to ignorance, doing it now would just make these knockoffs even more evil.

1AZRAEL1
28th February 2010, 07:07 AM
Ah bloody hell. I still need Red Alert, and parts for Defensor. It is becoming less likely that I will ever own them for fear of getting a KO.

kgb2005
28th February 2010, 02:36 PM
I actually have a KO of the robotech valkyries from the first generation of Macross. The funny thing is as I have a almost complete G1 jetfire that I found in my parents garage filled with other of my old toys. Well back to the funny part, the KO is identical in diecast well everything to the G1 jetfire :eek: Like I am talking size even the landing gears it's amazing. The only real difference which I can see maybe an improvement is the fact that the KO actually has gun holes in both hands. Even though I am planning on using the KO to repair my old jetfire I still find it remarkable just how close in detail these things are. Of course you can tell this one is a KO by the jet mold of parts that are on him lol but the in side parts that hold the arms and back all together is remarkable it's exactly the same. You would think that for a KO they would make it out of inferior parts.

jgon2098
28th February 2010, 03:04 PM
Yup, already saw these first hand in china. All I will say is that the reproduction is getting pretty good...

kgb2005
28th February 2010, 05:42 PM
I know some of these parts are the exact same, does this mean that if the KO's keep going on like this that it will be harder to tell the real G1's from the fakes?

kgb2005
28th February 2010, 05:43 PM
Ohh sorry about the double post. I forgot to tell you guys that the bot I have funny thing it is called "Griffin-System":D

kup
1st March 2010, 12:01 PM
Aarrggh! I instinctively started reading the ensuing discussion on TFW2005. My eyes! MY EYES!


I did the same and now I have total contempt for humanity.

5FDP
1st March 2010, 12:13 PM
I also read the article on TFW and noticed a comment that I found very interesting...


Well, the reason I collect them is this:

I am 34 years old with 2 kids. I have had TFs in my life since 1984. Although my wife and I both work, I don't have the cash to go throw around on an orignal G1 toy. The reissues provide me with a cheaper alternative for getting the collection back that I had as a kid. In cases where I know they won't/can't reissue a figure, then I will get the KO, BUT...it has the be the high quality look-alike version, otherwise it just isn't worth it to me. It's a nostalgia thing for me I suppose. Only ones I have are Shockwave, Sunstreaker, Mirage & the Devastator giftset.

I've always looked at both sides of the KO argument and have wondered what makes someone want to 'collect' KO's. From the above perspective, I can kind of understand 'why'.

I'm not trying to open this up to debate whether it's right or wrong (cause God only knows, it's been done to death), but having a wife and kids myself I can relate somewhat.

kup
1st March 2010, 03:50 PM
I also read the article on TFW and noticed a comment that I found very interesting...



I've always looked at both sides of the KO argument and have wondered what makes someone want to 'collect' KO's. From the above perspective, I can kind of understand 'why'.

I'm not trying to open this up to debate whether it's right or wrong (cause God only knows, it's been done to death), but having a wife and kids myself I can relate somewhat.

But the 'KO reissues' aren't cheap and can even cost more than a complete loose sample.

5FDP
2nd March 2010, 07:29 AM
But the 'KO reissues' aren't cheap and can even cost more than a complete loose sample.

You're right, they aren't cheap, but in some cases they are 'cheaper' than an original plus they 'look' brand new. Some well known KO websites sell them with the option of buying them MISB or loose to cut down on shipping costs.

*Disclaimer* I do not condone the making, selling, or distribution of KO products for the sole purpose of deceiving unknowing buyers and collectors :)

Kranix
19th April 2010, 08:55 PM
I am very new to collecting G1 transformers and have been looking for a new Re-issue Sideswipe (plus a couple of others) in OZ with no luck :( Even the overseas versions of Sideswipe are rare and very expensive. Would I be a ostracised forever if I bought a knock off? :eek:

liegeprime
19th April 2010, 10:54 PM
I am very new to collecting G1 transformers and have been looking for a new Re-issue Sideswipe (plus a couple of others) in OZ with no luck :( Even the overseas versions of Sideswipe are rare and very expensive. Would I be a ostracised forever if I bought a knock off? :eek:

No, but deep in your heart whenever you look at it and play with it, you'll always have that niggling feeling, "its a fake , its a fake!" Plus if your gonna spend money on it anyways go for the original. The figure is worth it, for you to waste your hard earned cash on Fakes, isnt.

griffin
19th April 2010, 11:00 PM
People can buy what ever they want, just as long as they don't try to resell it as an original, or try to convince others that it is better to buy replica toys instead of legit ones.
People who have limited funds, or affections with certain rare toys, sometimes buy a counterfeit toy, as a substitue until they can afford the real thing.

And I wouldn't have any problem with someone using a counterfeit toy for customising, so that it doesn't take a real (and sometimes rare) toy out of circulation.

GoktimusPrime
22nd April 2010, 03:33 PM
I'd rather not have a toy at all rather than substitute what I don't have with a counterfeit.

There's a thread where the morals/ethics of collecting knockoffs was extensively debated here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=5212). :)

1orion2many
22nd April 2010, 04:59 PM
If the originals are out of your price range then it's up to you, I'm sure no one on here will give you dirty looks if you have one;):D. It's a catch 22 situation, the reason the KO's are around is because all of the sclapers trying to screw all the money out of you, if people were fair on their pricing then people would be less inclined to lean towards the KO's. I must admit I don't have any KO's myself but that is because I bought a lot of my items off the shelf when they were new :D

Sky Shadow
22nd April 2010, 05:16 PM
I am very new to collecting G1 transformers and have been looking for a new Re-issue Sideswipe (plus a couple of others) in OZ with no luck :( Even the overseas versions of Sideswipe are rare and very expensive. Would I be a ostracised forever if I bought a knock off? :eek:

If you're patient, it's not hard to find a shipped MISB Sideswipe reissue for $100 or less (and you should be able to get a loose one for half that.) I don't know how much the knockoffs are, but it would be well worth the difference.

kup
22nd April 2010, 05:32 PM
I have seen Knock offs go for as much as vintage figures which is ridiculous. You are better off buying a reissue or good condition complete vintage figure off ebay and the price won't be much different.

VERT
22nd April 2010, 08:51 PM
I have a KO Swoop to replace my crusty G1 Swoop. Nothing wrong with it. Well made and is a perfect copy. All the story's about the bad quality etc... Well none to find with this one. Best part is you have to know a good place to get them. $40 was a good price :D Just dont look on ebay.

I dont care if its right or wrong I just wanted a NEW complete Swoop end of story. :D

kup
23rd April 2010, 03:36 PM
I have a KO Swoop to replace my crusty G1 Swoop. Nothing wrong with it. Well made and is a perfect copy. All the story's about the bad quality etc... Well none to find with this one. Best part is you have to know a good place to get them. $40 was a good price :D Just dont look on ebay.

I dont care if its right or wrong I just wanted a NEW complete Swoop end of story. :D

Yeah I always suspected that they were every bit as good as any official reissue when it comes to quality - And that's the problem.

There is no way to tell this thing from a real one in loose condition on an ebay auction.

5FDP
23rd April 2010, 04:12 PM
There are some differences between a legit G1 Swoop and the KO, but it all depends on what the individual is happy with or willing to accept.

Below are the main differences -

* Factory applied stickers are not applied. They come on a sticker sheet instead.
* Toy itself is relatively low quality. Soft plastic was used, the toy doesn't fit together well, and it's generally lose.
* The red paint on the diecast chips very easily.
* The head it comes assembled with is not painted. Subsequent runs included an extra painted head in the package that can be swapped out with the unpainted head.
* Some of the initial run comes with Grimlock's sword instead of Swoop's sword.
* The launchers do not fit on one of the wings.

The above does not include comparisons made between a legit MIB Swoop and a MIB KO. See here (http://highendtfs.com/images/idguide/swoopidguide.jpg) for a detailed guide.

Personally, I do not care how someone goes about their collecting or make any moral judgements about anyone.

VERT
24th April 2010, 09:41 PM
There are some differences between a legit G1 Swoop and the KO, but it all depends on what the individual is happy with or willing to accept.

Below are the main differences -

* Factory applied stickers are not applied. They come on a sticker sheet instead.
* Toy itself is relatively low quality. Soft plastic was used, the toy doesn't fit together well, and it's generally lose.
* The red paint on the diecast chips very easily.
* The head it comes assembled with is not painted. Subsequent runs included an extra painted head in the package that can be swapped out with the unpainted head.
* Some of the initial run comes with Grimlock's sword instead of Swoop's sword.
* The launchers do not fit on one of the wings.

The above does not include comparisons made between a legit MIB Swoop and a MIB KO. See here (http://highendtfs.com/images/idguide/swoopidguide.jpg) for a detailed guide.

Personally, I do not care how someone goes about their collecting or make any moral judgements about anyone.

Think things have changed since then.
* Factory applied stickers are not applied. They come on a sticker sheet instead.

Yep thats true and I had the Joy of putting them all on myself. LOVE THAT :D

* Toy itself is relatively low quality. Soft plastic was used, the toy doesn't fit together well, and it's generally lose

Nope, Only the sword and missiles are softer plastic. But it matches up perfect with my G1. Fits together every bit as well as the original. Nice tight joints. Even the wings dont flop around.

* The red paint on the diecast chips very easily

Nope no paint troubles as of yet.

* The head it comes assembled with is not painted. Subsequent runs included an extra painted head in the package that can be swapped out with the unpainted head.

Well my one had a painted and assembled head. But I did remove and replace with a original Swoop head just for fun :D

* Some of the initial run comes with Grimlock's sword instead of Swoop's sword.

Came with Swoop sword

* The launchers do not fit on one of the wings.

Mine fit just fine.

The differences are so small between the two. You actualy find more changes in any Hasbro or Takara reissue.

Again not licensed Bad KO BAD. But I love my Swoop :D and I will be getting more even if I have the original and trust me I do. Its like I have found a long lost 1980's toyshop. :D

5FDP
24th April 2010, 10:17 PM
Congrats Vert. Sounds like you were fortunate enough to get yourself the third release (http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-feedback/128432-ko-swoop-review-comparison.html) of Swoop with the corrected launchers and painted head.

I know quite a few other people that haven't been so lucky and have suffered the poor QC issues mentioned above. Oh well, it is after all a KO and like any other facsimile, it will never be as good as the original product but it can sometimes make a decent substitute. Like I said before, it's up to the individual on what makes them happy :)

VERT
25th April 2010, 07:53 AM
Guess the trick is not to get them as soon as they come out so they can work the bugs out. But like I said its better than a Hasbro reissue thats for sure :p

Oh and I dont have the problem with the red Dino foot sticking out. Guess they fixed that too :D

I also see these as a great supply of new parts for restoring my originals. he,he,he

bboy-toransufoma
27th April 2010, 12:03 PM
Yeah I always suspected that they were every bit as good as any official reissue when it comes to quality - And that's the problem.

There is no way to tell this thing from a real one in loose condition on an ebay auction.

I don't agree, There is ONE way. That's age wear. If there's a loose swoop that has a few paint dings, and lifting (if not removed stickers), or some chrome missing from the wings then it's gotta be real. However if you're after a mint condition one...then it gets a lot harder. Not impossible, but since you only got photos to go by, it makes it a lot harder

1AZRAEL1
27th April 2010, 12:12 PM
I don't agree, There is ONE way. That's age wear. If there's a loose swoop that has a few paint dings, and lifting (if not removed stickers), or some chrome missing from the wings then it's gotta be real. However if you're after a mint condition one...then it gets a lot harder. Not impossible, but since you only got photos to go by, it makes it a lot harder

That's true in some respects. Whats to stop KOers from "creating" playwear on their figures? I can see some unscrupulous sellers going to those lengths, but I hope not. Besides, you could be really lucky and get a near mint figure with little to no playwear that could be legit. All I can say is you have to be careful when buying anything off ebay. Just my opinion.

kup
27th April 2010, 02:19 PM
I don't agree, There is ONE way. That's age wear. If there's a loose swoop that has a few paint dings, and lifting (if not removed stickers), or some chrome missing from the wings then it's gotta be real. However if you're after a mint condition one...then it gets a lot harder. Not impossible, but since you only got photos to go by, it makes it a lot harder

It's not that easy to notice playwear in a photo. How many times have one of us bought a seemingly 'mint' toy from ebay only to find that it wasn't so mint in person?

5FDP
27th April 2010, 03:19 PM
The moral of the story would be - when it doubt, ask for more photos (close-ups). If they're an honest seller, I'm sure they would be willing to oblige.

Jetfire
28th April 2010, 12:17 AM
I don't agree, There is ONE way. That's age wear. If there's a loose swoop that has a few paint dings, and lifting (if not removed stickers), or some chrome missing from the wings then it's gotta be real. However if you're after a mint condition one...then it gets a lot harder. Not impossible, but since you only got photos to go by, it makes it a lot harder

Either real or purposely aged. You could probably simulate a couple of decades of wear on your lunch break. And bash that KO box around a bit for that authentic G1 look :p

Skullcruncher
28th April 2010, 09:30 AM
Either real or purposely aged. You could probably simulate a couple of decades of wear on your lunch break. And bash that KO box around a bit for that authentic G1 look :p

Yeah but the seller has to be pretty desperate to do that - there are plently of guides out on the web - plus some buyers are totally unrealistic(and highly paranoid) - unless an item is MIB or MISB how many loose items are going to be mint(c9+)?, these are toys and they are over 20 years old, all are going to have some sticker wear or the odd scuff/scratch.

Be an informed buyer and if you are happy with KO's then so be it!

Kranix
6th May 2010, 09:20 PM
Thanks for the responses guys. I think I will hold off and try and source a genuine G1 Sideswipe. He is one of my favourite transformers and worth the wait. I was surprised how hard it was to find him considering most people say he is common. I have already bought 5 G1 Transformers this month so probably should be good :D

LordCyrusOmega
17th May 2010, 11:03 AM
Now i run a greater risk of buying ko's. It's bad enough to think i may have knock off cassettes without being paranoid i might buy others.
Not Good..

VERT
17th May 2010, 12:39 PM
You know the KO Springer is so good it even has a Die Cast front end. That one is actually better than my 2 G1 Hasbro Springers

Eruntalon
17th May 2010, 12:57 PM
Now i run a greater risk of buying ko's. It's bad enough to think i may have knock off cassettes without being paranoid i might buy others.
Not Good..

Just in case you have a Ravage that you may suspect is KO:
http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=2881

LordCyrusOmega
17th May 2010, 01:48 PM
I'm confident that my rumble (red) and Ravage are real. It's my Frenzy and Ratbat i'm concerned about. I saw a review of a knock off one on TF arachive and it resembled mine. Ratbat was ok but Frenzy had terrible stickers that fell off and arm joints that were splitting. it was ages ago when i first started buying online. We live and learn

Kranix
1st October 2010, 01:41 PM
Thanks for the responses guys. I think I will hold off and try and source a genuine G1 Sideswipe. He is one of my favourite transformers and worth the wait. I was surprised how hard it was to find him considering most people say he is common. I have already bought 5 G1 Transformers this month so probably should be good :D

Sorry to dig up an old thread but even though it took me a while I got him! He is a reissue but genuine. Quite pleased with this figure :D I must have been nuts even considering a KO.

Amazing that genuine Sideswipes dont seem to pop up that often. I now cant believe how many different G1 reissues I have bought since! The Wallet is much lighter... I also think RK must love me ;)