Martial Arts Poll

[GoktimusPrime]

This poll is for anyone here who has practised or is currently practising a martial arts style/system.

The poll is ANONYMOUS so the names of people voting will not be publicly displayed. This has been intentionally done because a lot of MA practitioners are wary of identifying what styles they do in fear of "style discrimination"

All martial arts related discussions can be found here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=129) (mods: feel free to merge this poll/thread with the existing Martial Arts Discussion thread if possible)

Unfortunately this board poll system only allows me to add up to 10 poll options which isn't nearly enough to cover all the various styles of martial arts out there. So I know that some martial arts will be lumped under one big category. If you want to be more specific and don't mind publicly stating what style you do, then feel free to do so. :)

Thankfully there's never been any precedent of "style discrimination" on this board. :D

Now as for the 10 categories I've selected... I must admit that there is some personal bias here. I'm a traditionalist, so I've only included traditional martial arts (i.e. those created BEFORE the advent of sub-machine guns). I remain quite skeptical of styles that were created after that era since it's impossible to accurately test them in battle anymore. The only exception to this is Taekwondo (just 'cos it's too widespread to ignore IMO), and even then I've specified the older version of Taekwondo usually under the International Taekwondo Federation (ITF) -- if you practise the modern form of Taekwondo (under the World Taekwondo Federation or WTF (I'm not making this up!)), which is also an Olympic Sport, then please select "Sport Martial Art."

I've included Muay Boran, but not Muay Thai -- the latter is more of a sport which is derived from the former. If you practise Muay Thai then please select "Sport Martial Art."

Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) is also "Sport Martial Art" for this poll (because it was developed as a competitive combat sport (e.g. UFC etc.). If you're not sure, then feel free to ask (feel free to PM if you don't want others to suspect what style you do).

Judo is a Sport Martial Art, but Jujutsu is not. Note I'm using the more Japanese phonetically accurate spelling of "Jujutsu" -- I know that in English it's commonly called "Jiu Jitsu", but as a Japanese speaker that bugs me. :p

[autobreadticon]

you left out Stephen Chow style , how dare you b

[SharkyMcShark]

Between the age of 11 and 17 I did shitoryu style karate, gojukai (sp?) style karate, and muay thai kickboxing.

[autobreadticon]

geezz just a joke, no need for a technical

[Kyle]

Would have been good if we can select multiple arts.

[GoktimusPrime]

Between the age of 11 and 17 I did shitoryu style karate, gojukai (sp?) style karate, and muay thai kickboxing.
Gojukai is an Okinawan Style of Karate. I don't know much about Shitoryu, but after a quick read on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit%C5%8D-ry%C5%AB) it appears to be a Japanese style.

Hrmm... I probably should've allowed for people to post multiple votes. In the case where you may have trained in multiple styles, please vote for whichever you feel is your "primary" or "main" style.


Would have been good if we can select multiple arts.
I agree. It's something I only realise now in hindsight. But I find most people have one preferred style over others. So please choose your most preferred style that you have trained in. :)

----------------

Here's some information that might help to clear things up if anyone is unsure of where their style belongs to -- and also for the purposes of this poll. Classification is inherently quite subjective as usual. ;)

+ Eskrima: This is a difficult art to classify/categorise as it was originally practised by illierate commoners and its history isn't well documented (passed on orally). It's possibly derived from several different styles, but it's impossible to be sure. Anyway, this refers to traditional Filipino stick/staff/knife fighting and should NOT be confused with modern Arnis (which is defined as a Sport martial art for this poll) or Kali, which is a form of fencing/swordsmanship and quite different from closer range stick fighting.

+ Jujutsu: for the purposes of this poll both Japanese and Brazilian Jujutsu fall under this category. Judo does NOT (see Sports Martial Art).

+ Karate, Japanese: Chitoryu, kyokushin, seido, shotokan, et al. Gokanryu is an Australian style of Karate, but for the purposes of this poll we'll classify it as Japanese since it was derived from Japanese Karate.

+ Karate, Okinawan: Goju(ryu/kai), isshinryu, shorinryu, uechiryu, wadoryu, et al.

+ Kung Fu, Northern: Baguazhang, Bajiquan, Eagle Claw, Northern Praying Mantis, Taijiquan (Tai Chi), Changquan (Long Fist), Piguaquan, Liuhebafa, et al. Modern Wushu does NOT count (see Sport Martial Art). Note: "Shaolin" is a collection of Northern styles and isn't actually a style itself.

+ Kung Fu, Southern: Chow Gar, Choy Li Fut, Hung Gar, Lau Gar, Lee Gar, Mok Gar, Wreck Gar (sorry, couldn't help myself :p), Fujian styles (e.g. White Crane, Five Ancestors etc.), Southern Praying Mantis, White Eyebrows (Pak Mei), Dragon, Wing Chun, Nanquan, et al. Jeet Kune Do is an American martial art, for the purposes of this poll it is classified as a Sport martial art.

+ Muay Boran: This ONLY refers to the traditional Thai martial art. Muay Thai does NOT fall under this category (see Sport martial art).

+ Taekwondo, ITF: This refers to the original form of Taekwondo as founded by Choi Honghi and governed by the International Taekwondo Federation. It should NOT be confused with the more modern version of Taekwondo governed by the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) which is also an Olympic Sport. For WTF Taekwondo see Sport martial art.

+ Sport martial art: also includes dance and performance martial arts. These include;
Boxing, modern
Capoeira
Cossack
Fencing
Jeet Kune Do
Judo
Kendo
kickboxing
Maasai moran
Mixed Martial Arts (MMA)
Muay Thai
Taekwondo, WTF/Olympic
Tai Chi (non-combative styles; Taiji styles like Wu, Yang and Chen are combative)
Wrestling, Entertainment
Wrestling, Olympic
Wushu, Modern

+ Other: Any other combative (non-sport) martial art not included in the poll categories, which may include:
Aikido
Boxing, Marquees of Queensberry Rules or older
Kempo
Kenjutsu
Krav Maga
Silat
Spanish Rapier Brawling
Wrestling, Greco-Roman
...etc.

[5FDP]

I am, and have been for a quite a number of years, practising Hapkido. Just listed it as 'other'.

[GoktimusPrime]

Coolies. :)

I just had a quick read about Hapkido on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hapkido) - interesting to see that it was derived from Daitoryu Aikijutsu. I always knew that Hapkido was written in the same Kanji as Aikido (合気道) - but didn't know why. Sometimes two entirely different martial arts or techniques can have the same name, for example Shorinji Kempo is actually written in the same Kanji as "Shaolin Boxing" in Chinese (少林寺拳法), despite the fact that Kempo is an entirely different martial art from Kung Fu, Shaolin or otherwise. According to wiki the founder of Hapkido had training in Aikijutsu - precisely how he came by this knowledge is apparently open to debate, but the core principles of Hapkido (i.e.: redirecting the opponent's power against them) is the same as Aikido, which indicates that Hapkido evolved from Aikijutsu. If Choi Yong Sool did have Aikijutsu training, then it would mean a direct lineage between Hapkido to Aikijutsu -- much like how there's a direct lineage between Okinawan Karate and Southern Fujian Kung Fu (e.g.: there's a Fujian Kung Fu style called "Goroquan" which is written in the same Kanji as "Gojuken" (剛柔拳; Goju Fist). Kempo doesn't have this direct lineage - its founder based his techniques on copies of the fresco wall paintings of the Shaolin temple... I don't think he ever actually travelled to Shaolin or was trained by someone from Shaolin (even Wikipedia acknowledges this, here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorinji_Kempo#The_relationship_between_Shorinji_K empo_and_Song_Shan_Shaolin_Temple)).

I did some Aikido when I was living in Japan. One interesting theory is that Aikijutsu itself may have been derived from (or at least significantly influenced by) Baguazhang (Eight Trigram Palm) Northern Kung Fu. We know that Ueshiba lived in Japanese occupied Manchuria during 1940-42 (reference (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morihei_Ueshiba#Onisaburo_Deguchi.27s_spiritual_in fluence)) - and Baguazhang originated from Hebei, which is practically next to Manchuria.

The following is from Bruce K. Frantzis, who actually trained with Ueshiba between 1967-69:

It is my opinion, based upon personal memories of (Ueshiba) and my technical analysis of his films twenty-five years after his death, that it is completely reasonable to assume Ueshiba studied Ba Gua while he was in China. The opponent, as well as the hundreds of subtle energy projections of Aikido are fundamental Ba Gua techniques that existed long before Ueshiba's birth. Because of this, I beleive that Ueshiba learned Ba Gua while he was in Manchuria, China. Before and just after World War II, it would have been extremely politically incorrect and counterproductive for Ueshiba's organisation to have credited the Chinese with part of his "new" martial art, given the chauvinistic military and nationalistic bent of Japan in that era.
(Frantzis, B. K., "The Power of Internal Martial Arts: Combat Secrets of Ba Gua, Tai Chi and Hsing-I")

So if you get the opportunity, you might want to consider checking out Aikido and Baguazhang (if you haven't already), if you're ever interested in examining the Hapkido's historical roots. :) All internal styles employ the same core principle of redirecting energy (what the Chinese call "Qi" or what the Japanese and Koreans call "Ki"). Of course, in reality there are internal and external elements in all martial arts.

As I've mentioned on the MA Discussion Thread, I quite like the internal arts and I think they're particularly useful for modern day civil self defence due to their more passive and defensive nature.

[5FDP]

As I've mentioned on the MA Discussion Thread, I quite like the internal arts and I think they're particularly useful for modern day civil self defence due to their more passive and defensive nature.

Agreed. Hapkido is definitely more practical as it is a practice that teaches the individual to use the energies of their attacker rather than relying on flashy kicks and punches.

The best way of describing Hapkido to someone that doesn't know the style is to compare it to Taekwondo. Taekwondo is mostly about the big 'circle' movements and kicks whereas Hapkido is more about smaller circles and redirecting your oppponents energies e.g. grapples, holds, breaks etc.

Anyway, I won't go into much detail as it should probably go in the MA thread and not here.

[GoktimusPrime]

Replied here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=159487#post159487) :)

[Oldschool78]

Ive put me down under Northern kungfu. Its the closest to my style. Ive been training for 10 years plus change. (about the same as collecting tfs)
It can be described as a modern interface between Shao Lin Chuan and Tai Chi Chuan.

[GoktimusPrime]

It can be described as a modern interface between Shao Lin Chuan and Tai Chi Chuan.
Which specific style(s) of Shaolin and Taiji is your style descendant from?

[Oldschool78]

Which specific style(s) of Shaolin and Taiji is your style descendant from?


Now i wouldnt pretend to know too much about its history.
Im not too sure about the exact Shaolin style. I have yet to start Tai chi thats really advanced.
I know our style has had input from many styles over the years. Some of the most intresting coming from small circle JJ. I particularly enjoy that.
Your training in Kungfu?

[GoktimusPrime]

Now i wouldnt pretend to know too much about its history.
Im not too sure about the exact Shaolin style.
I strongly advise that you do. There are a lot of martial arts schools - especially Kung Fu - and even more especially those that use the name Shaolin - who aren't authentic. I've seen a few schools here that use the name "Shaolin" but when you cross reference their claims it turns out that they have nothing to do with Shaolin whatsoever. Some of them don't even have a background in Kung Fu!

Some tips:
#1: Ask your teacher about your style's lineage. A good teacher should be able to provide you with a comprehensive list of references that you can cross check (just like a bibliography in a book).
#2: Do your homework. Go to the library or bookstore and check up the web. Do other independent sources support your teacher's claims? If not then their claims are suspect.

My teacher often says, "Don't just take my word for it. Go do your research."

Some things to be aware of:
+ Kung Fu history is shrouded in mystery because a lot of historical information was either poorly recorded at the time and/or since been lost. A lot of information was lost during China's Cultural Revolution when they burnt books, destroyed temples, executed monks etc. Most of that knowledge can never be recovered.
+ Most of the ancient history of Kung Fu today - especially the origins of certain styles, are based more on word-of-mouth legends rather than actual historical facts. As a historian you can only rely on what _facts_ tell us. Anything else you need to regard as simply myths (as romantic and wonderful as they may sound).
+ See here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaolin_Kung_Fu#List_of_styles_currently_taught_at _the_temple) for a list of Kung Fu styles that originated from Shaolin (e.g. Xingyi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o5iR2obHGQ), Six Harmony (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmYYo6TgCOw) etc.). Note that it _is_ possible for a style to contain the name "Shaolin" even though they didn't originate from the Shaolin temple. This is often because they were influenced by Shaolin Kung Fu even though they are not direct descendants of it, e.g.: Shaolin Wuzuquan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEQY1h_PX68) (Five Ancestors Fist), Shourinji Kempo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqKSAIue7Tg) etc.


I have yet to start Tai chi thats really advanced.
The main styles of fighting Taiji are Chen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0tc8IGYpfU), Wu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSqfKRJotW4) and Yang (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFZUIgaxlsI), although there are variants of each (e.g. Long Fist Chen Taiji (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjfw0GzwK2w)).


I know our style has had input from many styles over the years. Some of the most intresting coming from small circle JJ. I particularly enjoy that.
Well, Juujutsu is obviously Japanese in origin. I'm not saying it's bad - but from a style authenticity POV it's obviously not part of Kung Fu.


Your training in Kungfu?
Already answered here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=175131&postcount=92). :)