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View Full Version : KO fortress maximus and some KO info



langzixinxin
16th June 2010, 12:30 PM
As I talked to a guy in a Chinese TF forum who has pretty closer with the G1 KO owner, I had the following information:


There is going to be a KO fortress maximus at some stage, targetted price would be 200 USD, so be careful/excited based on your perspective.


Many people think the reason that Takara do not reissue some of the popular toys is because KOer made frontrun. It is not true. According to what I heard, Takara owns fewer moulds than KOers. That is why they release skids over and over time. Those are what they have in hand.

Most of moulds are in KOer's hand. I don't know why.

Even we call them "KO", there is no toys been "knocked off" at all. The moulds that made these G1 KOs are original mother mould giving birth to legit toys.

Why are the moulds not in Takara's hand, I don't know. I guess there must be certain period in the past Takara didn't see the value of TFs and didn't give a sh*t at all and disposed those moulds to anyone who wants it or at least they didn't make reasonable effort to supervise to distroy them.

1orion2many
16th June 2010, 12:45 PM
Takara may never have owned the moulds in the first place, the original companies that produced these toys for them may have owned the mould but not the rights to produce these items legally without Takaras approval. This way Takara most probably thought they were saving money on something that would only have a short production life and not get used in the future for a re-release, saying that they did do RID Maximus so it wasn't that long ago they still had access to the mould.

5FDP
16th June 2010, 12:51 PM
KO are produced two ways - some come from the original moulds which were abandoned in factories that used to be owned by Takara and Hasbro, and some are reversed engineered from complete toys e.g. the toy is used to make a mould, which is why some KO's have parts that don't join together correctly.

US $200 for a Fort Max... serious :eek:

langzixinxin
16th June 2010, 04:09 PM
When that guy talked about KO stunticon, I didn't pay much attention, and it finally came out. So I guess maybe fortress would come true sooner or later.

blackie
16th June 2010, 04:12 PM
ive been hearing all year that fort max is being KO'd
and the timeframe is around the end of the year.

bruticus
16th June 2010, 05:02 PM
are they intending to release the weapons, box, styrofoam and paperwork for only 200USD?? cos thats definitely gonna cause chaos in the community!!

liegeprime
16th June 2010, 06:06 PM
are they intending to release the weapons, box, styrofoam and paperwork for only 200USD?? cos thats definitely gonna cause chaos in the community!!

Lets see if Hasbro will "let this pass" as well;)

griffin
16th June 2010, 06:19 PM
It kinda makes sense - if they took the cheap option and had the factories create and own the moulds, or if they disposed of them after a while (moulds are big, especially for hundreds of toy parts for thousands of different TFs over the years - Takara would need a massive warehouse to keep them all, 'just in case').

Maybe there is a black market for moulds in china, and someone who recognised them as a TFs toy moulds, was able to replicate the materials and packaging required to sell them as complete replicas.

kup
16th June 2010, 06:42 PM
It kinda makes sense - if they took the cheap option and had the factories create and own the moulds, or if they disposed of them after a while (moulds are big, especially for hundreds of toy parts for thousands of different TFs over the years - Takara would need a massive warehouse to keep them all, 'just in case').

Maybe there is a black market for moulds in china, and someone who recognised them as a TFs toy moulds, was able to replicate the materials and packaging required to sell them as complete replicas.

This brings forth a bit of a controversial but interesting conundrum:

If Takara abandoned or disposed of the molds and someone else picked them up and used them - Could we still call it theft or KOs?

It would be as if you pick up a piece of furniture on the side of the road, fixed it up and sold it. You can't be accused of stealing it since it was disposed of by the former owner for anyone to pick up and do as they please.

Now naturally, there is still the Intellectual Property factor but that would only apply to the character model art, trademark names and box art since the Toy itself was disposed of.

So if I create an accurate Fortress Maximus from the disposed molds and call it 'Fort Max' and change the box art enough so that it doesn't match the original box art - Can we still call it a KO??

PascTF
16th June 2010, 08:51 PM
Well, the so-called high-quality G1 KOs I got so far (Gnaw, Cyclonus and Shockwave) have clearly been reverse engineered as tolerances aren't the same. The guy from KOtoys.com told me he could KO any toy he wanted as long he had a good and clean original version of the toy.

gdmetro
16th June 2010, 09:22 PM
are they intending to release the weapons, box, styrofoam and paperwork for only 200USD?? cos thats definitely gonna cause chaos in the community!!

HOly crap...

While i dont know much about this area, can I guess people will buy these just for full weapon sets and box?

So is it even debatable that Takara still has the mould? (Since Brave Max)

And why has there been no reissue till now?

langzixinxin
16th June 2010, 09:58 PM
are they intending to release the weapons, box, styrofoam and paperwork for only 200USD?? cos thats definitely gonna cause chaos in the community!!

As I heard, the whole lot, box, sticker, sword, etc.

Lordy
16th June 2010, 09:59 PM
I have read on some TF sites that Fortress Max is not going to re-issued by Hasbro due to it failing US drop tests. However if it is fine with Japanese safety tests, there shouldn't be any reason why it can't. While I am not desperate for a Fortress Max, a relatively cheap complete one would be nice.

griffin
16th June 2010, 10:43 PM
This brings forth a bit of a controversial but interesting conundrum:

If Takara abandoned or disposed of the molds and someone else picked them up and used them - Could we still call it theft or KOs?

It would be as if you pick up a piece of furniture on the side of the road, fixed it up and sold it. You can't be accused of stealing it since it was disposed of by the former owner for anyone to pick up and do as they please.

Now naturally, there is still the Intellectual Property factor but that would only apply to the character model art, trademark names and box art since the Toy itself was disposed of.

So if I create an accurate Fortress Maximus from the disposed molds and call it 'Fort Max' and change the box art enough so that it doesn't match the original box art - Can we still call it a KO??

If the factory did indeed dispose of the moulds without destroying them first, they are likely to be in breach of contract (our plastic factory had to destroy any moulds after they were no longer needed). It's also a way of making sure others can't profit of the initial investment (creating the mould is one of the most expensive components of the total production process).
I think ownership of the patents on these toy designs should cover Hasbro/Takara if they wanted to chase after replica producers, regaurdless of reverse-engineering or using the actual moulds without authorisation.

1orion2many
17th June 2010, 09:56 AM
:oIf they released Grand Maximus with all his parts and shell I'd be very tempted as I can't afford the $3000+ U.S for this item:o

kup
17th June 2010, 10:36 AM
:oIf they released Grand Maximus with all his parts and shell I'd be very tempted as I can't afford the $3000+ U.S for this item:o

Yeah - This is the sort of thing that proves that KOers are the Devil! They work through temptation.

1orion2many
17th June 2010, 11:10 AM
Yeah - This is the sort of thing that proves that KOers are the Devil! They work through temptation.

Luke come to the Dark side:D

rampagesss
17th June 2010, 11:50 AM
Since i have a Fort Max it doesn't interest me that much but a Grand Max i would buy in a second!:D

Sky Shadow
17th June 2010, 12:36 PM
:oIf they released Grand Maximus with all his parts and shell I'd be very tempted as I can't afford the $3000+ U.S for this item:o

They won't be selling for US$3000+ for much longer if there's a knockoff around. The prices of real Maximi will take a nosedive.

1orion2many
17th June 2010, 04:37 PM
Still wouldn't come down to $200 though:D

optimus1
17th June 2010, 05:00 PM
I'd be tempted by a cheaper version of Fort Max, but shipping costs would be a massive killer :eek:

AussieJason
17th June 2010, 06:26 PM
:oIf they released Grand Maximus with all his parts and shell I'd be very tempted as I can't afford the $3000+ U.S for this item:o

I can see your point.

I have two Fort Maxes (both incomplete :(), but if I didn't I would seriously consider it.

If there is a market for it, and it remains unlikely to see another official release I couldn't blame a TF collector for purchasing one.

My only dislike is the practice of passing off KO's as genuine.

VERT
17th June 2010, 10:32 PM
Good chance I will get the Max. I have him but he is missing a ramp and some bits. So this would be great. But I WOULD GET GRAND MAX IN A SECOND. Please Mr KO man do what you can..... I know you want to :D

reillyd
18th June 2010, 09:44 AM
If there is a market for it, and it remains unlikely to see another official release I couldn't blame a TF collector for purchasing one.


What's the reasoning behind that belief, that Fortress Maximus is unlikely to be reissued (again) by Takara? I'm not arguing, I just don't understand why.
Because Metroplex was a shelf-warmer? Because Hasbro is not going to reissue because of the drop-test (as was mentioned in an earlier post)? Fear that some KO has stolen all of Takara's encore and g1 molds (suggested earlier)?
Or something different, like the extra accessories not part of the RID release?

AussieJason
18th June 2010, 10:39 AM
Because Metroplex was a shelf-warmer? Because Hasbro is not going to reissue because of the drop-test (as was mentioned in an earlier post)? Fear that some KO has stolen all of Takara's encore and g1 molds (suggested earlier)?
Or something different, like the extra accessories not part of the RID release?

Only TakaraTomy and Hasbro would know exactly why, but I would say one of the above; or maybe a combination of the above.

If I had to pick one I would say "shelf-warmer". Even with the interest in this thread and other TF's sites, it may not sell well outside of the dedicated fan market.

I may be wrong, but I would assume the better seller out of say MP Grimlock or a Reissue Fort Max would be the Masterpiece TF.

liegeprime
18th June 2010, 10:58 AM
It prolly an expense thing as well for HasTakTom - Fort max has a lot of Plastic and some metal as well in him - with the oil spill and current high oil prices in the global news. We all know Hasbro's allotment of miniscule budget for each figure thereby maximizing their profits ( as any business would) with very little expenditures. Im pretty sure if even in the remotest they decide to go ahead with a fort max Reissue it would be a very very limited release ( prolly build up a media hype about it too in the various boards) and would prolly cost an arm and a leg still due to its limited numbers... thereby boosting the pre-existing maxiis prices even more.... this KO one will affect the sales of indeed the prexisting ones but up to what degree? We just have to wait and see.

The unscrupulous selling KOs passing them off as originals in the end will be one of the worst case scenarios we are looking forward too....:(:( Just tell em like it is damn sellers, its a freakin KO! :mad::mad:

Eruntalon
18th June 2010, 11:39 AM
Fortunately I just recently received my highly yellowed Fortress Maximus from Japan, so this will have no bearing on me. However I intend to locate the missing components in order to complete it, and this includes Cerebros and Spike unfortunately.

GoktimusPrime
20th June 2010, 11:35 AM
As much as I'm against KOs, I'm seriously tempted to get a KO Fort Max for spare parts as my Fortress Maximus is missing one ramp, Spike and has no weapons or accessories. So I am tempted to get a KO Fort Max just for the parts.

What would I do with the spare body though?? I don't want to keep it - but it's too expensive to throw or give away. :( I would sell it for a reduced price to someone if they want to use the leftover body for kitbashing parts. It would still work well as an interactive playset for other TF toys in city or battleship mode. If noone wants to buy it then maybe I'll use it as a competition prize at meets/fairs where people pay a gold coin to play something like TF Trivia and go in a draw to win it. But I'd make a massive loss cos I wouldn't make much from it. Still better than getting nothing at all I suppose.


However I intend to locate the missing components in order to complete it, and this includes Cerebros and Spike unfortunately.
Spike is a B!TCH to find on his own. Cos let's face it, if you ever did find Spike on his own you'd get an incomplete Fort Max for cheap, then sell them both as a set for an inflated price. So once the KO comes out I'm gonna be mighty tempted to just give up my search for Spike (which has gone on for many years) and just get the damn KO. *sigh*

If I had faith in TakaraTOMY reissuing Fortress Maximus then I wouldn't do it. I bought reissue Metroplex even though I already had an original G1 Metroplex in support of TakaraTOMY to reissue more baseformers. I passed on Omega Supreme though because it came out around the same time as Metroplex and I was already getting the e-Hobby repaint -- both of which set me back a lot (especially considering the Aussie Dollar took a big dive at the time too). But it seems unlikely atm that TakaraTOMY would reissue Fort Max.

But what it they did?

I'd happily buy a legit reissue Fort Max and I would sell the KO -- but I'd make it clear that it is a KO. I think we can all agree that the most annoying thing about some KO sellers is when they try to pass them off as legit.

Man I wish TakaraTOMY would just reissue this toy. :( I might call them during the school holidays and just ask them directly.

kup
20th June 2010, 07:16 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/TRANSFORMERS-FORTRESS-MAXIMUS-HEADMASTER-SPIKE-/320549714443?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa2407a0b#ht_500wt_1154

Much less than the KO - Just convince him to ship overseas.

Not bad and ships overseas:

http://cgi.ebay.com/TRANSFORMERS-CEREBROS-HEADMASTER-SPIKE-WITWICKY-RARE-/290446151942?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionFigures_JN&hash=item439ff09106#ht_500wt_1154

Oilspill
21st June 2010, 04:09 PM
I've replaced my only KO's I previously had (a few cassetticons), but this is certainly a case where I'd be willing to grab a KO instead of the original. I've always wanted a Fort Max but I'm not going to spend $1.5K on one.

I'd prefer that he was done by Takara as an Encore, but I doubt that will happen since it seems like the larger items haven't been selling like hotcakes (who buys hotcakes anyway?).

GoktimusPrime
21st June 2010, 07:26 PM
I'd rather NOT have a toy at all than buy a KO. The only reason I'd consider getting a KO Spike is because I already have an original Fortress Maximus and finding a legit Spike is so damn hard.

But thanks to kup, that's no longer an issue for me! :D My Fortress Maximus will still be missing a ramp and all his accessories, but that's fine. I'd much rather have an incomplete genuine Fortress Maximus than a complete fake one ANY DAY. Besides, I can always play with my Brave Maximus if I want to experience the mould in one piece (although Brave Max doesn't have the gun... not that the Maximus mould NEEDS a gun considering that he has flip out cannons in his hands, arms, torso and legs!! :o)

kup
22nd June 2010, 09:59 AM
I'd rather NOT have a toy at all than buy a KO. The only reason I'd consider getting a KO Spike is because I already have an original Fortress Maximus and finding a legit Spike is so damn hard.

But thanks to kup, that's no longer an issue for me! :D My Fortress Maximus will still be missing a ramp and all his accessories, but that's fine. I'd much rather have an incomplete genuine Fortress Maximus than a complete fake one ANY DAY. Besides, I can always play with my Brave Maximus if I want to experience the mould in one piece (although Brave Max doesn't have the gun... not that the Maximus mould NEEDS a gun considering that he has flip out cannons in his hands, arms, torso and legs!! :o)

With Spike in hand, it shouldn't be too expensive to get the other pieces.

Badger_Mcgee
29th June 2010, 12:33 AM
I paid around $400us for mine and well he is worth it. Though I would get the fake just to complete mine for the mean time as I slowly put the real parts on him and then give the fake to some child that would love the fake and hopefully get him into collecting.

rampagesss
30th July 2010, 11:43 AM
dont know if is a KO or real but
Lucky Draw FORT MAX
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/TheDragonclaw/GOLDCHROMEFORTMAX.jpg

It is on display at Cybertron Con in China alongside many other items including the prototype for Masterpiece Rodimus Prime

1orion2many
30th July 2010, 11:47 AM
SHINY SHINY:eek: That would be a real pain to keep the old fingerprints off of:D

Oilspill
31st July 2010, 01:08 AM
Apparently it was a custom. A guy sent his Fort Max (who knows if it was real or a KO) off to a factory to get goldified. Which is totally a word.

GoktimusPrime
31st July 2010, 08:01 AM
Judging from the fact that the arm ramps are missing, I'm gonna guess it's a real Fort Max - maybe it was a spare that was badly yellowed and missing everything 'cept Cerebros so the owner decided to have it gold chromed. That's my guess, cos if it were a KO then why chrome the toy but not the ramps? I wonder how that thing looks in battleship and city modes. ;) (well, pretty crap w/o the ramps)

hanprimus
31st July 2010, 08:43 AM
Probably just some cheap Korean version Brave Max when it first released....

GoktimusPrime
31st July 2010, 07:33 PM
But that wouldn't explain the absence of the ramps. Why would you get a Brave Max (Korean or otherwise), then remove the ramps to cover it in gold chrome?

kup
31st July 2010, 08:52 PM
But that wouldn't explain the absence of the ramps. Why would you get a Brave Max (Korean or otherwise), then remove the ramps to cover it in gold chrome?

He does have ramps. In some photos you can see them at his feet. They are probably not attached to the arms as the 'snap-in' action and friction would have tarnished the gold.

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/attach/4/0/5/9/7/31ee9606492da4c7b3c1122bd51ee7aa_1280488497.jpg

liegeprime
31st July 2010, 09:12 PM
He does have ramps. In some photos you can see them at his feet. They are probably not attached to the arms as the 'snap-in' action and friction would have tarnished the gold.

Or prolly coz the gold chrome has made the peg stub thicker in cant fit into its peghole anymore.

Eruntalon
22nd September 2010, 01:00 AM
I refer to this auction on eBay. It seems we have a KO Cerebros:

http://cgi.ebay.com/G1-Cerebros-Headmasters-4-Fortress-Maximus-Transformers-/320592956449?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aa4d44c21

The stickers obviously, but look at the join quality on the legs also.

1AZRAEL1
22nd September 2010, 07:36 AM
Man that is one crappy KO.