PDA

View Full Version : KOs of 1987 Japanese exclusive Headmaster Heads + more


heroic_decepticon
26th June 2010, 09:54 PM
The news of this release came out a few days ago. The following Japanese exclusive and ultra rare and expensive heads has been KO-ed and put in a giftset box:


Karku (Kirk)
Rodney
Loafer
Lione
Trizor
Shuffler
Spike
Grand (Grand Max head)
Lord Zarak (Scorponok); and
Black Zarak's head


The first 6 has also been KO-ed as their Japan store exclusive, prototype white versions.

This is huge news and definitely major news for serious G1 collectors wanting to finish off the Japanese exclusives. Apart from the Dino-casettes, the 6 Headmaster Heads, especially the white versions, were all but unobtainable even if one had money to blow. I have spent many months and many many hours searching for the originals of these heads in the US, HK, SG, M'sia and Japan, but still came up empty. When I did find them, they were selling for in excess of $500 per head. Griffin would agree with how rare for example, Shuffler is.

According to veteran G1 collectors on TFW2005, the KO versions of these are virtually indistinguishable from the real ones except for the Takara stamps. The plastic quality used is also apparently superior to the vintages and the white heads uses a compound that is yellow resistant (apparently).

Only 1 seller on eBay has these and in the span of 2 days, he must have sold in excess of 30 sets. Each batch of auctions of 10 he/she loads up sells out within the hour. Here is the link (http://cgi.ebay.com/TRANSFORMERS-superise-Headmasters-giftset-/180523182376?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a08052928). Some members on TFW2005 was already selling, but has sold out of sets, for US$250 each.

I managed to get 1 coloured set and 1 white set with-very-great-difficulty. These could become just as rare as the fabled Cliffjumper upgrade kit (but don't quote me on that).

Some pictures here (not my pictures).

10 heads set giftset box

http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/45468/2484525140100811158S500x500Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2484525140100811158ZKpEMX) http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/46785/2631227720100811158S500x500Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2631227720100811158AQowHV)

http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/45967/2198718560100811158S500x500Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2198718560100811158QzrYLQ) http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/36812/2764886710100811158S500x500Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2764886710100811158vWlvBw)

http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/24393/2587610160100811158S500x500Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2587610160100811158LliQEh)

The white "prototype" versions.
In the 80s, these were only available on a very exclusive basis in certain retail stores in Japan and by far rarer than the already rare coloured versions. It's so rare that even Transformers: Generations only pictured the white Shuffler but not all the other 5 white heads. According to the seller I bought from, there are only 100 sets of white prototypes KO-ed and once sold out, that's it (if that can be believed).

http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/47844/2881245380100811158S500x500Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2881245380100811158Hlqahn) http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/23033/2835429710100811158S500x500Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2835429710100811158fDWmsU)

FFN
26th June 2010, 11:20 PM
80 dollars is comedy.

The REAL ones are rare and "worth" what they cost. These are just mass produced fakes.

Eruntalon
26th June 2010, 11:49 PM
HD, please please please post up some photographs of the KO versions of the Headmaster Warriors where the date stamps are meant to reside, as well as the rivets on both sides.

I've been doing some research of my own into these and I've been following the sales of these sets on TFW2005 myself. I think Griffin was going to post some photo's for me in this older thread related to KO Headmaster Warriors. (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=6314)

heroic_decepticon
27th June 2010, 12:55 AM
i will certain post pics when I receive them. I just checked my original Spike, Zarak and Black Zarak and these do not have stamps on them. So they would have to be identified in other ways.

I read from TFW that the other 6 have stamps. So, we'll see. All of the ones from other auctions like Italy and all that were sourced from China it appears. A few sellers here and there were selling loose ones separately but now the 'manufacturer' have decided that they will sell it as a giftset.

jop
27th June 2010, 11:37 PM
I just bought a set from this guy too (I think). He also sells them on ioffer, if anyone is trying to get any. I think he still has some white gift sets left there too.

heroic_decepticon
28th June 2010, 12:08 AM
80 dollars is comedy.

The REAL ones are rare and "worth" what they cost. These are just mass produced fakes.

Pretty harsh there.

Skullcruncher
28th June 2010, 01:32 PM
Pretty harsh there.

Na I think its fair, it will be mass produced no one is going to be naive enough to think a KO maker is going to produce a limited run!!! Give it some time and price will come way down. Look at the devastator KO giftset and others boxed KO's.

The guys that produce them will be laughing all the way to the bank, and the lucky ones who own originals will be very pi55ed.

5FDP
28th June 2010, 01:59 PM
Na I think its fair, it will be mass produced no one is going to be naive enough to think a KO maker is going to produce a limited run!!! Give it some time and price will come way down. Look at the devastator KO giftset and others boxed KO's.

The guys that produce them will be laughing all the way to the bank, and the lucky ones who own originals will be very pi55ed.

There have been many KO's that have had limited production runs e.g. G1 minibots, G1 cassettes (+ clear versions), Reflector, so there is good reason to suspect that these will be limited as well.

KO makers have the same limitations that Hasbro / TakTom have such as mold degradation and production costs. Given that most KO makers operate on a smaller scale with limited funds, there is no such thing as an endless supply of toys.

Your other point perplexes me - if someone already owns the originals, why would they care about KO's being produced? I know I don't because I'm not looking at resale value, however in most cases, original toys hold their value even more due to being original. I only feel for those that have yet to track down original toys and have to be especially careful when making a purchase because of so many dishonest sellers looking to flog-off KO's as legit toys.

Skullcruncher
28th June 2010, 02:25 PM
Your other point perplexes me - if someone already owns the originals, why would they care about KO's being produced? I know I don't because I'm not looking at resale value, however in most cases, original toys hold their value even more due to being original. I only feel for those that have yet to track down original toys and have to be especially careful when making a purchase because of so many dishonest sellers looking to flog-off KO's as legit toys.

Well say if you bought a transformer for $400 and for health reasons or whatever you need to sell it - would you mind if you got $300 because of KO's being freely available decreasing the amount of demand or $500+ which is its actual worth. You could advertise it as a buy now but with KO's vitually the same quality you could be advertising for a very long time.

1AZRAEL1
28th June 2010, 02:37 PM
Well say if you bought a transformer for $400 and for health reasons or whatever you need to sell it - would you mind if you got $300 because of KO's being freely available decreasing the amount of demand or $500+ which is its actual worth. You could advertise it as a buy now but with KO's vitually the same quality you could be advertising for a very long time.

But there are still those out there (myself included) that would rather have an original than a KO. The value of an original won't necessarily go down.

5FDP
28th June 2010, 02:59 PM
The value of an original won't necessarily go down.

Correct. In fact there is no supportive evidence whatsoever to suggest that KO's have any adverse effect on the price of original toys.

Skullcruncher
28th June 2010, 03:48 PM
Correct. In fact there is no supportive evidence whatsoever to suggest that KO's have any adverse effect on the price of original toys.

And until there is some evidence either way I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

I can still see people getting caught like even with the obvious KO's (MIB Prime, Devestator Giftset) some still go for way to much.

5FDP
28th June 2010, 07:25 PM
And until there is some evidence either way I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Put it this way, if KO's did effect the cost of original G1 toys (in that they went cheaper) I would have bought them all by now ;)

I can still see people getting caught like even with the obvious KO's (MIB Prime, Devestator Giftset) some still go for way to much.

Agreed. However if they already have them, then there shouldn't be a problem.

reillyd
28th June 2010, 07:38 PM
Well say if you bought a transformer for $400 and for health reasons or whatever you need to sell it - would you mind if you got $300 because of KO's being freely available decreasing the amount of demand or $500+ which is its actual worth. You could advertise it as a buy now but with KO's vitually the same quality you could be advertising for a very long time.

I actually HAVE had to sell part of my collection to pay for health treatment, and it really IS quite distressing. My experience has been though that you loose SO much trying to sell a MIB item that you purchased MISB..... or because Takara decides to reissue a toy that was really left of field and not expected, like Seacons, or Skylynxs.

*no*person in their right mind should seriously consider buying plastic toys that age and crack as "investments"

Comics, maybe, if you're talking gold or silver age, but any collectible that's only a few decades old? I mean we may pay a small fortune for a SDCC exclusive toy, but in our hearts we know its really NOT worth that amount for a toy.

heroic_decepticon
28th June 2010, 08:43 PM
relliyd, sorry to hear about that.

Interesting discussion about whether KOs will affect the price of vintages. I think it depends on lots of factors, the basic ones being supply and demand.

Having KOs flood the market means an increased supply and if demand remains constant, would decrease the price of the toys. However, this must also be seen in light of how many people (from the existing demand pool) are willing to buy the KO substitute for the real thing. In terms of percentage, I think its not large (but I could be wrong, as I often am). Looking at it from the sellers' perspective, the supply for genuine toys may actually decrease because they are not willing to sell their wares for fear of it being mistaken for KOs and thus fetching a much lower price than its worth. Less supply, demand constant = price for vintages actually goes up! (did I say I've been known to be wrong). Certainly the evil-bay trend over the last 4 to 5 years have shown that vintages still register a strong demand with correspondingly high prices, despite the deluge of KOs and "reissues", both legit and not-legit.

In that regard, I think 5FDP seemed to touch on the right note. There may, however, be the odd auction here and there that goes for a very low amount or a very high amount, but those are the exceptions rather than the rule.

heroic_decepticon
28th June 2010, 08:50 PM
*apologies for double post, but talking about different stuff*

Back on topic.

Just checked out the seller's iOffer sales thread and he has as of today already sold about 40 sets (just based on the number of unique buyers). However, most buyers buy more than one set. Notably, some guy from Netherlands bought 6 sets each; some guy from Singapore bought 13 sets, all no doubt to scalp.

Over the course of today and yesterday, there have been a number of Australian buyers. They are from Ferntree Gully, Victoria, Glebe, Wiley Park and Sydney.

True to his word that he is doing it for the fandom, the seller has not marked up his selling price and has also kept his shipping constant and modest at US$25 to ship anywhere in the world, despite the craze in demand.

Na I think its fair, it will be mass produced no one is going to be naive enough to think a KO maker is going to produce a limited run!!! Give it some time and price will come way down. Look at the devastator KO giftset and others boxed KO's.

The guys that produce them will be laughing all the way to the bank, and the lucky ones who own originals will be very pi55ed.

You could be right, but I guess only time will tell. However, I tend to agree with 5FDP. Some KOs and repros indeed do have a very limited run.

There have been many KO's that have had limited production runs e.g. G1 minibots, G1 cassettes (+ clear versions), Reflector, so there is good reason to suspect that these will be limited as well.

KO makers have the same limitations that Hasbro / TakTom have such as mold degradation and production costs. Given that most KO makers operate on a smaller scale with limited funds, there is no such thing as an endless supply of toys.

+ 1

GoktimusPrime
28th June 2010, 09:08 PM
Regardless of how KOs may affect the cost of originals, it doesn't change the fact that they're just counterfeit imitations.

liegeprime
28th June 2010, 09:13 PM
That Netherlands guy - gerrutcamaro is an ebay seller of TFs - I just recently bought from him - AM G1s. Hmmm guess if it shows up in his list I know Im not buying originals then..:)

kup
28th June 2010, 09:13 PM
I can only imagine accurate KOs devaluing legit toys when they are very common and competitively priced. I don't think the KO Headmaster heads apply as they are not common nor competitively priced.

The reason why reissues devalue the vintage article is because they are competitively priced and easily available but as the reissue 'ages' and becomes less common, it eventually balances out with the legit article as the reissue begins to increase in price.

Sky Shadow
28th June 2010, 10:18 PM
I can only imagine accurate KOs devaluing legit toys when they are very common and competitively priced. I don't think the KO Headmaster heads apply as they are not common nor competitively priced.

They will when people no longer bid high amounts on genuine heads out of fear that they might be knockoffs.

If this was a legitimate reissue set it would be awesome, by the way.

heroic_decepticon
28th June 2010, 10:35 PM
That Netherlands guy - gerrutcamaro is an ebay seller of TFs - I just recently bought from him - AM G1s. Hmmm guess if it shows up in his list I know Im not buying originals then..:)

yup, I bought from gerrutcamaro before too. Actually, I can recognise a lot of the IDs of the people buying this set as matching sellers' IDs on eBay. I think rule of thumb is that if its a loose Headmaster head, there is a good chance that its not the real thing.

Like Kup said, I don't think these repros will actually devalue the actual heads, the problem with the actual heads are that no one can actually find any!

liegeprime
28th June 2010, 10:44 PM
hmmm wonder when are they getting around to the JApan only dino cassettrons? bet those would sell like original priced and faster than you can blink...KO notwithstanding:o

heroic_decepticon
29th June 2010, 06:15 PM
hmmm wonder when are they getting around to the JApan only dino cassettrons? bet those would sell like original priced and faster than you can blink...KO notwithstanding:o

I did hear that they are. Maybe the people the bid the highest on the Dino casettes on eBay are actually KO-ers intending to reverse engineer them :eek:

liegeprime
30th June 2010, 08:48 AM
I did hear that they are. Maybe the people the bid the highest on the Dino casettes on eBay are actually KO-ers intending to reverse engineer them :eek:

hmmm guess they have money to burn... but also if you think about it, they're gonna surely slug it price wise( to recuperate the loss they paid for the dino cassettrons;))

TheHandsomeCrab
2nd July 2010, 12:03 AM
Having handled these at BotCon I'm very tempted to buy a set - the quality is excellent, but you can instantly tell they aren't original from the rivets, let alone the lack of copyrights, which is something I greatly appreciate.

Eruntalon
2nd July 2010, 12:06 AM
To this date does anyone know of any KO headmaster warriors that include the date stamps?

TheHandsomeCrab
6th July 2010, 03:33 AM
He's listed another 10 sets at $80 a go, I caved. I feel bad about it, but at least they aren't trying to pass them off as genuine figures. If they were I would've passed.

llamatron
6th July 2010, 09:26 AM
It's an awesome set, easy to tell apart from the legit ones too. For rare items like this a KO will have zero impact on value of originals.

TheHandsomeCrab
6th July 2010, 05:47 PM
It's not the value I'm worried about, I just don't like KOs that try to look genuine out of principle.

heroic_decepticon
7th July 2010, 01:59 AM
He's listed another 10 sets at $80 a go, I caved. I feel bad about it, but at least they aren't trying to pass them off as genuine figures. If they were I would've passed.

I know the feeling. I caved too. I still feel bad about it. I'll see how it goes.

griffin
7th July 2010, 01:28 PM
Seems that there is a flood of them on ebay now, with some sellers charging the 'recommended' cost (about $80 for the set of 10), while other sellers are hoping to suck in buyers who don't yet know that the individual heads aren't worth $100+ each, but would be thinking they are getting a good deal compared to the originals.
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/featured-ebay-auctions-japanese-headmaster-heads-piranacon-scorch-transformers-art-and-more/19139/

heroic_decepticon
7th July 2010, 10:30 PM
The flood gates are opening on evil-bay...

Trizer (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320558334880&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123)
Lione (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320558334219&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123)
Kirk (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320558333119&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_2462wt_1139)
Loafer (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320558331523&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_1658wt_1139)
Shuffler (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320558330594&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123#ht_2480wt_1139)

liegeprime
7th July 2010, 11:12 PM
Sigh, oh noooooooo.....:(

Eruntalon
8th July 2010, 01:01 AM
It's good to see that none of these KO's are emulating the date stamp though.

jaydisc
9th July 2010, 09:06 AM
That seller has put up another ten (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/705-53470-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5574719522&toolid=10001&campid=5336433113&customid=&icep_item=180530620451&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229515&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg). They seem to go quick, so get' em if you want 'em.

jaydisc
10th July 2010, 09:58 AM
Review (http://kapowtoys.blogspot.com/), including differences to original Spike

liegeprime
10th July 2010, 04:48 PM
That seller has put up another ten (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/705-53470-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5574719522&toolid=10001&campid=5336433113&customid=&icep_item=180530620451&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229515&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg). They seem to go quick, so get' em if you want 'em.

and they're gone :(... again, sigh, wonder what time he posts it:o:o

heroic_decepticon
10th July 2010, 05:54 PM
and they're gone :(... again, sigh, wonder what time he posts it:o:o

dude, what not do the iOffer thing. They don't go so quick there because there technically isn't a BIN option. Also, payment is through paypal which means you're covered (to the extent PayPal covers such transactions).

blackie
10th July 2010, 09:19 PM
dude, what not do the iOffer thing. They don't go so quick there because there technically isn't a BIN option. Also, payment is through paypal which means you're covered (to the extent PayPal covers such transactions).

no
paypal wont cover you on ioffer
trust me, been there done that

heroic_decepticon
10th July 2010, 09:36 PM
ok, I stand corrected then. Apologies liege.

Anyway, I got mine from iOffer as did many people from TFW (in excess of 20+ I'd think) and so far they've all got their stuff. Seller provides us with an EMS number and all. This seller (Headmaster1987) is pretty reliable and according to what I've seen in TFW, we think that its the one and the same guy who's selling it on eBay (fantasy toys).

I'll post more feedback here when mine arrive next week.

jaydisc
10th July 2010, 10:46 PM
If you use your credit card to fund your paypal transaction your credit card will cover you.

What's iOffer anyway?

liegeprime
10th July 2010, 11:09 PM
If you use your credit card to fund your paypal transaction your credit card will cover you.

What's iOffer anyway?

Same as Ebay but, its more of making an offer and the seller approving it rather than making a bid like ebay does. Also there's a BIN option if you dont wanna go thru the hassle of being out offered.

@HD: I was going to go for the iOffer, but procrastinated and the ones I have on watch list there has been bought out already :(..... Ill get one soon prolly onoce the hype has gone down and all those buyers in TFW finally get sated :p I just hope they still do production of it and not stop when them Tfw guys stop as well.

heroic_decepticon
11th July 2010, 01:18 AM
some of the TFW guys have been in contact with this seller since before he sold on an open market basis. They got pieces from him and then sold each set for US$250, which pissed the 'manufacturer' off. So now he's selling them himself and will only sell 1 set to one person so that he can keep the price low at US$80.

These same guys also know that only 2000 coloured sets and 80 white sets were made. He/she may make more, but its anybody's guess.

Don't know how accurate all the above info is though. It's just what people said. :p

PS: on iOffer, you can't do a straight BIN although it looks like you can. You can offer the "BIN price" but the seller still has to accept or counteroffer. At least that's what happened to me. :D

liegeprime
12th July 2010, 08:05 AM
some of the TFW guys have been in contact with this seller since before he sold on an open market basis. They got pieces from him and then sold each set for US$250, which pissed the 'manufacturer' off. So now he's selling them himself and will only sell 1 set to one person so that he can keep the price low at US$80.



That's mighty nice of him then:), still hoping to get one set hehehe, but browsing thru IOffer I kinda segwayed into other goodies I found there heheheh:o:o

jaydisc
12th July 2010, 08:53 AM
some of the TFW guys have been in contact with this seller since before he sold on an open market basis. They got pieces from him and then sold each set for US$250, which pissed the 'manufacturer' off. So now he's selling them himself and will only sell 1 set to one person so that he can keep the price low at US$80.

It's good to see validation that not all KO manufacturers or sellers are attempting to profit from deceit and/or inflated prices.

jaydisc
13th July 2010, 12:19 PM
Speaking of ethical sellers, he released another 10 this morning, and when I got the alert, there were 4 left. I bought all 4 for board members that had asked me to keep an eye out for them. eBay automatically calculated a US$16 savings in combined shipping, bringing the shipping total to $72. 30 minutes after I make the payment, I get a PayPal partial refund for another $22 with this message:

Message from merchant: Hi,Thank you for your payment,I accept combined shipping.The 4 Sets Shipping to Australia is 50 USD,I return for you 22 usd.thanks

What a class act.

I've never had a non-"KO dealer" do that for me.

kup
13th July 2010, 12:42 PM
All this talk about the heads are making them tempting :)

Sharky
13th July 2010, 02:01 PM
All this talk about the heads are making them tempting :)

indeed they are, even for the fact that i know i will never own the originals... tempting oh so tempting....

heroic_decepticon
13th July 2010, 10:11 PM
Speaking of ethical sellers, he released another 10 this morning, and when I got the alert, there were 4 left. I bought all 4 for board members that had asked me to keep an eye out for them. eBay automatically calculated a US$16 savings in combined shipping, bringing the shipping total to $72. 30 minutes after I make the payment, I get a PayPal partial refund for another $22 with this message:



What a class act.

I've never had a non-"KO dealer" do that for me.

good on you jay! If he hasn't already approached you, can by proxy I request that you "hold" 1 set for liegeprime?

Seller just shipped out my sets again today after they were returned because of an error in the address PayPal provided to him. He never charged me extra and even posted them EMS this time with the EMS number lodged with PayPal. A class act indeed.

STL
14th July 2010, 12:01 AM
I'm very impressed too by the fact the seller actually gives a damn on inflated prices. Instead of profiting himself, he's gone to making sure that no douchebag fans try and capitalise on this and accessibility remains high which I suspect is why he produced these in the first place. Tip of the hat to the kind fella.

jaydisc
14th July 2010, 01:17 AM
good on you jay! If he hasn't already approached you, can by proxy I request that you "hold" 1 set for liegeprime?

They were all requested before I even purchased, so no spare I'm afraid. I recommend everyone else does what I did and make an eBay saved search. Each time he put up a new one, I've gotten the email alert and been able to get in in time.

TheHandsomeCrab
14th July 2010, 03:47 AM
Just got an e-mail from eBay saying the item had been pulled due to being counterfeit - somewhat surprising given the amount of KOs I've reported that *are* trying to pass themselves off as authentic which get ignored.

5FDP
14th July 2010, 11:51 AM
Just got an e-mail from eBay saying the item had been pulled due to being counterfeit - somewhat surprising given the amount of KOs I've reported that *are* trying to pass themselves off as authentic which get ignored.

I'm not really surprised with the amount of international attention these things are getting and how quickly the sets are selling out.

heroic_decepticon
19th July 2010, 08:10 PM
For buying "reproductions", I have made my wife displeased , I must have pissed a few people on this board off as well, I have endured the set being shipped to limbo (Singapore-Australia, deet, error address), re-shipped back to me, and have waited an eternity for them to arrive.

But here they are, the iOffer "superise Headmasters"... in both coloured and white.

I'm going to cower in my basement now.

http://inlinethumb47.webshots.com/44590/2328596300100811158S500x500Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2328596300100811158ZwcHwu)

http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/47001/2884888200100811158S500x500Q85.jpg (http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/photo/2884888200100811158VqiGEv)

liegeprime
19th July 2010, 08:59 PM
Well I just bought one from Ioffer just a few moments ago...:o:o. Hopefully it doesnt get sent to the wrong address like your did HD...

heroic_decepticon
19th July 2010, 11:35 PM
Well I just bought one from Ioffer just a few moments ago...:o:o. Hopefully it doesnt get sent to the wrong address like your did HD...

good stuff. you're welcome to join me in the basement. My white ones does not have a box. Come to think of it, I should have bought 2 coloured sets and swapped out the coloured ones with the white ones... oh well.

Eruntalon
20th July 2010, 12:46 AM
Eruntalon waits to see if anyone is ever going to do a comparison between the authentic headmaster warriors and the KO's
.

liegeprime
26th July 2010, 11:15 AM
good stuff. you're welcome to join me in the basement.

We wont be alone HD, Im bringing NOt headmasters in NOt Teletran with NOt Spike and Sparkplug to have some tea and NOt energon cubes :D:p ..... in the basement:o:o NOt Arcee and NOt Springer ( keeping my fingers crossed , Kyle) will join us soon....... in the basement

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb313/liegeprime/2010%20Acquisition/JulyAcquisition007.jpg

@ Eruntalon: I can only do a comparison of one headmaster though - Lord Zarak, all the rest I dont have em... at all hence why I wanted this set. I have a Brave Max Spike but certainly not a Grand Max Spike. Perhaps shots with other original headmasters (e.g. Duros et al, not the ones in the set:p) I can make heheheh.

kup
26th July 2010, 11:17 AM
You guys are making it real hard to not to give into the Dark side :p

liegeprime
26th July 2010, 11:43 AM
You guys are making it real hard to not to give into the Dark side :p

Ooh but there's plenty of good things you can do in the dark, kup hehehehe:D

I wonder if Ill be shot if I start a "Non-official Products Acquisitions thread":p

heroic_decepticon
26th July 2010, 01:52 PM
Ooh but there's plenty of good things you can do in the dark, kup hehehehe:D


"The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."

bruticus
26th July 2010, 08:13 PM
HD, do you want to post up comparison pics with the original headmasters or shall i?

however, i can only post up grand max, fort max, black zarak and zarak for comparison as i dont own the other 6 exclusive jap headmasters.

heroic_decepticon
26th July 2010, 09:25 PM
HD, do you want to post up comparison pics with the original headmasters or shall i?

however, i can only post up grand max, fort max, black zarak and zarak for comparison as i dont own the other 6 exclusive jap headmasters.

hi sir,

Happy for you to post since I've packed up much of my stuff already and its not readily accessible. I don't own the 6 exclusive HMs too, but will get them when I next go to Japan (I know where to get at least 4 of the 6). I will post pics when I do have them on hand but might not be soon. :D

bruticus
27th July 2010, 06:03 AM
These are a great set and definitely value for money. its pretty hard to tell if its a KO just from picking one up, unless you have a few of the originals to compare against.

but for those that were interested to know how to tell the difference between fake vs real, here is a comparison (i.e. collecting using a microscope). I'll do my best to spot some for you and hopefully the larger pictures will allow others to pick up those that i have missed.
KO versions are always on the far left of the pics, Legit figure(s) are on the right.
(Click on thumbnails to view larger detailed pics)

Black Zarak:
KO on the left has
-dull gold plastic (not just camera or lighting effect)
-poorly painted face
-blue face instead of purple.
-better mould-flash clean up job on the thighs (i.e. more cleaner)
-Darker red headmaster eyes
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/4831764120_e19fbabbc1_m.jpg
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4092/4831764120_e19fbabbc1_b.jpg)http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4130/4831153443_bf158ac668_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4130/4831153443_bf158ac668_b.jpg)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/4831763194_a2b4d1650b_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/4831763194_a2b4d1650b_b.jpg)

Lord Zarak:
KO on the far left has
-poorer detail on face (e.g. no outlines to distinguish eyes, but could be due to too much paint?)
-better mould-flash clean up job on the thighs (i.e. more cleaner)
-poorly painted headmaster eyes
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/4831767980_0060331d56_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4149/4831767980_0060331d56_b.jpg)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/4831766490_4c5f5dae5f_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4129/4831766490_4c5f5dae5f_b.jpg)

Spike / Fortress Maximus
KO on far left has
-slightly darker blue plastic
-better mould-flash clean up job on the thighs (i.e. more cleaner)
-matt finished plastic chest (the 3 originals on the right have a semi gloss plastic finish)
-less prominent details on the chest
-there are some differences in the right knee rivet joint
-poorly painted headmaster eyes
-less prominent details on the headmaster head
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/4831157183_798848e18b_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/4831157183_798848e18b_b.jpg)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4090/4831157941_d722532a03_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4090/4831157941_d722532a03_b.jpg)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/4831770464_9125c6647c_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4113/4831770464_9125c6647c_b.jpg)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/4831771488_11f3457d24_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/4831771488_11f3457d24_b.jpg)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/4831772624_5fb00eb2a1_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/4831772624_5fb00eb2a1_b.jpg)

Gran / Grand Maximus
KO on left has
-slightly darker red plastic
-square mouth detail (original does not have this)
-better mould-flash clean up job on the thighs (i.e. more cleaner)
-matt finished plastic chest (the original on the right has a semi gloss plastic finish)
-less prominent details on the chest
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4105/4831773454_34cda30103_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4105/4831773454_34cda30103_b.jpg)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/4831774254_5de53965a3_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4152/4831774254_5de53965a3_b.jpg)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4147/4831775050_3ce6a56c8f_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4147/4831775050_3ce6a56c8f_b.jpg)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4090/4831164163_231c444b03_m.jpg (http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4090/4831164163_231c444b03_b.jpg)

kup
27th July 2010, 10:27 AM
Thanks for the pics, Bruticus. They are very informative.

Naturally the biggest difference is with Dark Zarak as the gold plastic has different shades. That is understandable otherwise the KO would suffer from GPS too!

But the differences are so very subtle, specially in photos. Even an experienced collector would easily make a mistake on a loose figure.

hanprimus
27th July 2010, 11:00 AM
I also got this set but I don't have any original (only Zarak) so thanks for the review Bruticus, also you got 3 Spike?!? :eek: awesome....I need oneeee....

5FDP
27th July 2010, 02:15 PM
Great comparison pics and write-up bruticus. I believe you are the first person to do this on any forum.

bruticus
27th July 2010, 02:36 PM
I also got this set but I don't have any original (only Zarak) so thanks for the review Bruticus, also you got 3 Spike?!? :eek: awesome....I need oneeee....

huh? why do you need an original spike when you already have the KO set? :confused:

i have a spare legit spike on its own and have been thinking about selling it, but when i think about it from a buyers perspective, why would anyone want to pay market price for a legit spike when the KO spike is a pretty good substitute and about 1/20th of the price?
You are better off buying some other transformer with the huge savings that you would have made. just MHO.

Great comparison pics and write-up bruticus. I believe you are the first person to do this on any forum.

Thanks buddy. However, i suspect that may be the case due to the fact that not everyone has an unbroken black zarak headmaster.
Actually, to be honest, im quite relieved that nothing bad happened to my one whilst i was taking photos. :p

Skullcruncher
27th July 2010, 02:48 PM
Great comparision work - also on the spike and grand max on their upper chest the 5 sided(oddly shaped) shape has a square top edge on the KO's. Its angled on the originals.

Hope that makes sense! Best photo to see it is in 2nd Grand Max comparision pic.

hanprimus
27th July 2010, 04:03 PM
Yes you're right, I certainly won't pay $200 but as long as there's chance to replace the KO with a legit one (reasonable price :p) why not...

huh? why do you need an original spike when you already have the KO set? :confused:

i have a spare legit spike on its own and have been thinking about selling it, but when i think about it from a buyers perspective, why would anyone want to pay market price for a legit spike when the KO spike is a pretty good substitute and about 1/20th of the price?
You are better off buying some other transformer with the huge savings that you would have made. just MHO.



Thanks buddy. However, i suspect that may be the case due to the fact that not everyone has an unbroken black zarak headmaster.
Actually, to be honest, im quite relieved that nothing bad happened to my one whilst i was taking photos. :p

griffin
5th March 2011, 01:09 AM
Be aware - this seller (http://shop.ebay.com/retrozone2005/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562) is listing several of the KO heads, and it isn't being made obvious in most of the listings that they aren't originals. The single use of the word 'reissue' in the very short descriptions is all you get to tip you off that they aren't originals.

pheonix83
5th March 2011, 07:59 AM
does anyone know where i can get a set of these at a realistic price, not the inflated ones im finding ?

liegeprime
5th March 2011, 08:23 AM
does anyone know where i can get a set of these at a realistic price, not the inflated ones im finding ?

try www.ioffer.com ....youll need to make an account - its like ebay except the seller can counter offer ( sometimes they offer even less -discounted price:Dthat what is stated in the BIN price)

to help you out, this one I have in my watchlist which I really dont need anymore since I already have my set.

http://www.ioffer.com/i/154673761

blackie
5th March 2011, 05:57 PM
maybe i should sell mine......

griffin
6th March 2011, 05:43 PM
does anyone know where i can get a set of these at a realistic price, not the inflated ones im finding ?

A small request - try to prioritise internet searches for certain KOs, or ask someone here privately about where to get one... so that we don't have a proliferation of trades/sales/support for KOs here. An unrestrained policy could eventually lead to people buying/selling KOs of current figures, which could get Hasbro off-side.

reillyd
12th March 2011, 11:53 AM
Is it just headmaster heads that are being reproduced?
Its just that with all the new 3rd party heads, it got me
interested in headmaster bodies, and I came across an odd
listing for the japanese Minerva/Minelba

http://cgi.ebay.com/Transformers-MINELBA-MINERVA-Nightbeat-headmaster-/260750101448?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cb5eacbc8#ht_5372wt_1139

If the legs weren't damaged, I would have bought it instantly, but I wasn't
aware of any whole headmaster + body reproductions. I remember buying a Nightbeat once from a seller with dozens of them, and at the time I thought it might just have been one of the 90's China reissues.

Hursticon
9th September 2011, 04:14 PM
Knock-Off - Headmasters :eek::

Head-On!
(http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TRANSFORMERS-superise-Headmasters-giftset-/150659574848?pt=AU_Action_Figures&hash=item231402ac40)
Head-On! (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TRANSFORMERS-superise-Headmasters-giftset-/150659603339?pt=AU_Action_Figures&hash=item2314031b8b)

Head-On! (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TRANSFORMERS-superise-Headmasters-giftset-/150659635498?pt=AU_Action_Figures&hash=item231403992a)

Plus 1 more (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TRANSFORMERS-superise-Headmasters-giftset-/150659681579?pt=AU_Action_Figures&hash=item2314044d2b), Seller has 0 Feedback though...

kup
9th September 2011, 10:21 PM
I have been watching the auctions and I have a feeling that the dude is chill bidding.

Hursticon
10th September 2011, 12:37 AM
I have been watching the auctions and I have a feeling that the dude is chill bidding.

Honestly, as we've seen these sets go for way more than what was on them earlier today, I wouldn't be surprised but I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt... Until proven otherwise at least. ;):)

reillyd
13th September 2011, 12:51 PM
I have been watching the auctions and I have a feeling that the dude is chill bidding.

What is 'chill' bidding?

kup
13th September 2011, 01:21 PM
What is 'chill' bidding?

When the seller (or relation to the seller) using another account make bids on
their item to artificially increase the the bid price.

gamblor916
13th September 2011, 01:45 PM
That would be shill bidding :p

kup
13th September 2011, 03:19 PM
That would be shill bidding :p

lol yeah

jaydisc
20th September 2011, 04:23 PM
Chill bidding is when you bid from a relaxed position, like lying back on your couch. :D

Those auctions have been pulled. What were they up to? I've seen a couple pop up over the past 6-12 months, but they seem to have gone unsold.

e.g. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/360394709785?ssPageName=STRK:MEW…

iamirondude
20th September 2011, 05:32 PM
hursticon i actually won one of the auctions and i payed with paypal but then paypal cancelled the trans before the dude got the money and refunded it no reason was given.i got the shits now cause i need h/masters and now i know im not gonna get them for the price of the auction.

Hursticon
20th September 2011, 05:53 PM
Chill bidding is when you bid from a relaxed position, like lying back on your couch. :D

Those auctions have been pulled. What were they up to? I've seen a couple pop up over the past 6-12 months, but they seem to have gone unsold.

e.g. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/360394709785?ssPageName=STRK:MEW…

hursticon i actually won one of the auctions and i payed with paypal but then paypal cancelled the trans before the dude got the money and refunded it no reason was given.i got the shits now cause i need h/masters and now i know im not gonna get them for the price of the auction.

I believe what you'll find guys is that eBay must of noticed how dodgy the whole thing was, especially considering the other items the Seller was auctioning were all multiples of the same totally unrelated products - It all looked really odd to me which is why I didn't bid on any. :o

Sorry to hear about those who've been affected by this, glad to hear that your payment was returned to you Irondude. :o

liegeprime
20th September 2011, 07:11 PM
hursticon i actually won one of the auctions and i payed with paypal but then paypal cancelled the trans before the dude got the money and refunded it no reason was given.i got the shits now cause i need h/masters and now i know im not gonna get them for the price of the auction.


Pm'd you

griffin
9th November 2011, 11:24 AM
In light of the recent increase in interest, and the positive comments towards KOs in this section, I need to remind people of the purpose of this section:

KOs and counterfeit/replica items must not be promoted/sold here - only post about them to help others know how to avoid getting fooled by them. If you want KOs, search google for them.

That also means that if you want to talk favourably about them, or talk about any that you recently (intentionally) purchased, please take it to a messageboard that solicits discussion of counterfeit Transformers.
If you want to help out other fans, post up ways of identifying the fakes (without promoting it of course).

reillyd
15th November 2011, 02:56 PM
KOToys has posted early photos of Headmaster Weirdwolf (before Christmas)
and that they will be making single packs of the headmaster heads.

The boxed set was so obviously NOT an original, but the single packs..... well looking at what they've done with the single packs of cassettes, I'm thinking an awful lot of people are going to be very very sad they can't complete their collection. Unless they put something in that obviously distinguishes real from fake.....

I could never afford Japanese headmasters, and frankly don't have a lot of interest in them (I don't remember them as a kid, so there's no nostalgia).
But for those who collect them, it may not come as great news.

ALSO Given that there are a lot of new (3rd party) headmaster compatible heads coming out at the moment, I think its pretty likely that they will continue to KO the headmaster bodies (at least the main Hasbro/Takara line)...... Some people might appreciate this early heads up, to collect mib or loose headmaster toys now, before they are released.

Hursticon
15th November 2011, 05:42 PM
ALSO Given that there are a lot of new (3rd party) headmaster compatible heads coming out at the moment, I think its pretty likely that they will continue to KO the headmaster bodies (at least the main Hasbro/Takara line)...... Some people might appreciate this early heads up, to collect mib or loose headmaster toys now, before they are released.

For the fact that I'd really like to get my hands on a Mindwipe, Weirdwolf, Apeface and Snapdragon? - Yes, I definitely appreciate this heads up Reillyd, cheers mate. ;):cool:

reillyd
16th November 2011, 11:14 AM
Well get them fast. It takes a few months for these early mock ups to finally be available, so you have time.

I've been buying up junker bodies, or quality ones sans their heads.
"New" mib style stuff is out of my price range, but the bodies are really cheap, and work great with third party products. Just like "Kre-O" doesn't infringe on Lego (because the patent has expired) I don't see third party heads like the Cobra as morally dubious. The ones molded to look like G1 characters might be though.

I can't remember the characters, so to me a Mindwipe works just as well with a cobra head master as it would with his original.

GoktimusPrime
16th November 2011, 11:59 AM
I've been buying up junker bodies, or quality ones sans their heads.
"New" mib style stuff is out of my price range, but the bodies are really cheap, and work great with third party products. Just like "Kre-O" doesn't infringe on Lego (because the patent has expired) I don't see third party heads like the Cobra as morally dubious. The ones molded to look like G1 characters might be though.
The ones moulded to look like G1 are outright counterfeits, plain and simple. The third party heads are at least original creations (AFAIK) that just happen to be compatible with G1 Headmasters. :)

I can't remember the characters, so to me a Mindwipe works just as well with a cobra head master as it would with his original.
Whether or not it works "just as well" is subjective... IMO Mindwipe needs Vorath. But I would agree that using a 3rd party head like the Cobra is a definitely a more ethically preferable option than a counterfeit. :cool:

If I saw a Mindwipe with a Cobra head and a Mindwipe with a KO Vorath, I would personally have loads more respect for the collector with Mindwipe + Cobra.

Hursticon
16th November 2011, 12:26 PM
In that lies my problem Goki, the only thing preventing me from purchasing just the Transtectors is the fact that I find it hard to guarantee the legitimacy of the lone Headmaster but also that the asking prices for the lone Headmasters are often as much as the body itself, and in some cases a head + body combo of slightly lesser quality. :o

I don't expect to be as lucky as I was with Skullcruncher (from Skullcruncher :D) with regards to price for both the body and head, but I would certainly prefer to get both in the one transaction rather than trying to piece-meal one together; that being said though, with regards to the 3rd Party Headmasters and Cobra, getting just the bodies seems like a no-brainer to me. ;):)

Indeed you're right though Reillyd, I should indeed try to get them in the next couple of months before the KOs start hitting the market; I really don't want to get caught with a fake body or head. ;):cool:

kup
16th November 2011, 06:59 PM
I bought a couple of extra headless transtectors just so that I can display my Cobra heads :)

liegeprime
16th November 2011, 07:36 PM
I bought a couple of extra headless transtectors just so that I can display my Cobra heads :)

just how many cobra heads did you buy?

GoktimusPrime
16th November 2011, 08:31 PM
I don't expect to be as lucky as I was with Skullcruncher (from Skullcruncher :D) with regards to price for both the body and head, but I would certainly prefer to get both in the one transaction rather than trying to piece-meal one together; that being said though, with regards to the 3rd Party Headmasters and Cobra, getting just the bodies seems like a no-brainer to me. ;):)

Then I strongly recommend you take reillyd's advice and complete your Headmasters before the KOs come along (thankfully my 1987 Headmasters are all complete - I'm missing a few 1988 Headmasters but AFAIK they haven't been KOed *knock.on.wood*) -- failing that, as hard as it sounds, maybe avoid collecting Headmasters piecemeal... just be patient and wait till you find them as Transtectors with Headmasters and avoid collecting headless Transtectors/bodies.

Even if you have some headless bodies, it might be easier to just find the complete toy with the head and sell the extra body off later. In 1988 I stupidly lent my Snapdragon to a classmate of mine who returned it without Krunk (he lost it :mad:). So many years later I couldn't find Krunk on his own - at least not for a price I was willing to pay. It worked out to be easier/cheaper to get a second Snapdragon with Krunk - the body was a bit scratched, but that's okay cos I only wanted Krunk. I kept Krunk and sold/traded Snapdragon off. :)

But yeah, I'd try to complete them ASAP before the KOs come out if I were you. Makes me wanna hate counterfeiters even more (if that's even possible) :mad:

kup
16th November 2011, 10:08 PM
just how many cobra heads did you buy?

Two, the original green and the Exclusive 'Cobra Commander' one.

I have a spare Weirdwolf with the green Cobra head. I also have a spare Mindwipe with the Blue 'Ol'Snake' head.



But yeah, I'd try to complete them ASAP before the KOs come out if I were you. Makes me wanna hate counterfeiters even more (if that's even possible) :mad:

Would the Headmaster KOs proliferate that much? I don't think the Japanese headmasters and the KO 'Headmaster box set' is prolific enough to be mixed up with the thousands and thousands of headless transtectors out there in any significant quantity. It may not be economically feasible either for the seller as the KO heads aren't exactly cheap and may be more valuable in their 'original' KO set given demand.

liegeprime
17th November 2011, 07:32 AM
@ kup: ah ok so you did buy the variant as well.


@ Gok: aaaahhh so that's why you have a spare Snapdragon body......