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Tober
30th March 2008, 07:26 AM
One of the best episodes so far setting the scene for the return of Megatron.

Highlights include featuring every Transformer character except Lockdown and Soundwave. None of the characters are too annoying either except for maybe Optimus struggling to control his subordinates.

GoktimusPrime
30th March 2008, 09:51 AM
SPOILERS AHOY




Sari treating the key like a toy again was really annoying, and also counteractive against previously established development for this character - it's like she just returned to square one. While I could sympathise with Sari's point about having successfully defended the key thus far and about how Optimus Prime should respect her more as part of the team, the fact that she'd just used the key to create toy planes really didn't help her case much. I thought that she was over the whole "key = toy" thing, but evidently not... and that really sucked IMO.

Optimus Prime being so flawed was simultaneously frustrating and interesting to watch. He's was cracking under the pressure/burden of leadership and really didn't cope well at all... but what annoyed me was his sheer stubbornness, which I found was quite out of character for Optimus Prime who'd previously had never been portrayed as being so hard-headed and unwilling to listen to others. So unfortunately he came off as being more irritating than interesting. G1 comic Prime and Optimus Primal were far more interesting as flawed leaders because when they made mistakes it wasn't out of character. There was a lack of decent exposition to explain why Prime felt the need to chew everyone in his team out. It was almost like he was having PMS. (o_O)

Bulkhead was pretty good in this episode, I must say. For once he wasn't portrayed as being moronic. I liked the way he settled the tension between Prime and Prowl and also backed Prowl up when he was dealing with the Dinobots - it showed that Bulkhead was thinking... something which he hasn't done a lot of up till now. I really hope that Bulkhead will get further developed as a thoughtful character.

Sadly I can't say the same for the Dinobots, who once again were portrayed as being stupid savages. *SIGH*

Ratchet was good. It was good how he acted as a kind of moral counterbalance for Prime when he was freaking out, even though Prime didn't heed his advice. His heroic stand against Blitzwing and Lugnut was really cool.

Bumblebee was also interesting... his attitude toward authority is very Generation Y-esque. ;)

The Decepticons in this episode reminded me of most of the Decepticons from the live action movie - lots of cool fighting, but not much character focus. The exception to this was Blackarachnia, who was the best written Decepticon character in this episode IMO.

The scene where Starscream thought that Lugnut was being subservient toward him was amusing. :)

The animation sequence for Megatron's reformatting was really nicely done. "Teeeeetttssssuuuuooooo!" ;)

Not a fantastic episode, but not bad either. It is one of the better episodes in this series... but erm... that's not saying much. ;p

Pulse
30th March 2008, 10:25 AM
I just plain lurved this episode. IMO, These Decepticon episodes are 1000% better than the Human-Villain episodes. Megs being reborn - Awesomeness re-defined! :D Of all the characters, Blackarachnia is my favourite by far & this episode just re-affirmed it (Are they suggesting all she needs is the key & she'll become Elita One again?).

Great Episode = 10/10 :p

kup
30th March 2008, 11:12 AM
I liked this episode, something that this series has proven is that it can handle Decepticons very well (with the exception of the first Blackarachnia episode which was crap IMO). Its a real shame that the Decepticon episodes are fairly rare and the bulk of the series are these really absurd and stupid episodes which bring down the overall series into lame territory.

I have taken a bit of a habit of skipping down to Decepticon episodes since they are well done and most of the narrative happens in them since the rest are mostly realy dumb filler episodes.

I mostly agree with what Gok said in his review but having Prime portrayed as an incompetent leader didn't affect me as much because this version of the character is something else entirely different to previous Prime/Primal incarnations. However strangely enough this is the first time that his character was properly explored and it didn't come out too good as this is the first time we get to see inside him as leader and it was portrayed negatively.

i_amtrunks
30th March 2008, 11:27 AM
Anyone else here think that BlackArachnia has a very big part to play in part 2?

It was a good episode, other than the Sari and key issue Gok already raised, the writing was strong, Prime cracking, Ratchet being the voice of reason, as well as his stand against far stronger opposition, Starscream being Starscream, Bulkhead and Prowl made for a good episode.

Prowl not telling Prime about the Dinobots was odd, I thought for sure that he would have told him already.

Bumblebee still irks me though, but at least his little hissy fit was true to his character as well.

GoktimusPrime
30th March 2008, 06:26 PM
These Decepticon episodes are 1000% better than the Human-Villain episodes.
Yeah, but that's not hard. Lame human villains from G1 like the Robot Master and Lord Chumley are a lot better than the human villains in Animated! :p

having Prime portrayed as an incompetent leader didn't affect me as much because this version of the character is something else entirely different to previous Prime/Primal incarnations. However strangely enough this is the first time that his character was properly explored and it didn't come out too good as this is the first time we get to see inside him as leader and it was portrayed negatively.
What gets me about Prime in this episode has nothing to do with G1 Prime or Optimus Primal - the problem is that it seemed out of character for Animated Prime. In no other episode do I recall Animated Prime being so short-fused, stubborn and hard-headed nor hostile toward his comrades. He was a lot more forgiving with Sentinel Prime, who's an absolute jerk.

Optimus Prime's characterisation in this episode seemed quite out of character and all this angst seemed to have appeared out of nowhere. The concept of Prime freaking out under pressure like this isn't a bad idea, but I thought that the execution wasn't well done.

Compare this with the time G1 Prime flipped out - it was something that was steadily building with Ratchet's reported death being the straw that broke the camel's back, pushing Prime over the edge. In Beast Wars we once saw Optimus Primal having a tantrum and smashing his fists against the Maximal base doors - again, due to mounting pressure against him and triggered by Megatron's acquisition of the Nemesis and the death of Tigerhawk (especially so soon after losing Depth Charge). Or even in Beast Machines when there was tension built between Optimus Primal and Cheetor shortly after Cheetor's stint as acting commander and resolved by the turn of the season. All of these Optimuses (Optimi?) flipped out during times of very heightened stress with something acting as a trigger to provoke the flip-out.

Animated Prime was faced with a bunch of largely ineffectual human villains and two active Decepticons - he knew that Starscream and Blackarachnia were at large, but the others are presumed to be inactive - Lugnut and Blitzwing were thoroughly trounced by the Ark's weaponry and would've probably died if Starscream hadn't repaired them, which Prime was not aware of. And Starscream and Blackarachnia had been unheard of in a long time, so it wasn't as if there was an immediate mounting threat from them at that time - not enough that justified him totally freaking out IMO.

The idea of Prime feeling frustrated and showing/venting that frustration is fine - but I thought that in execution it was really over the top, especially considering that Prime allowed his emotions to sever the Autobots' friendship with Sari and also lose some respect from Bumblebee. His stubbornness thwarted Prowl's plan to recruit the Dinobots (although being so dim-witted I'm unsure if Prowl's plan would've worked - but Prime's interference certainly didn't help) and essentially allowed the Decepticons to seize the key and ressurect Megatron.

The basic idea is sound, but I just feel that Prime needed greater justification for his emotional breakdown. It just felt like Prime suddenly became a d**kwad just because the plot needed him to be one, but failed to provide sufficient justification for him being one.

MV75
30th March 2008, 06:46 PM
Seemed pretty much in character to me.

Sari wasn't cooperating and couldn't really understand as well as prime does the absolute danger she was in while holding the key. He had to step in and act as the "parent" instead of the "friend" to resolve the situation.

The dinobots existence and goings on behind his back without being informed totally mowed down his authority.

And bumblebee disobeying direct orders and thus ignoring him as a leader added to it too.

So he's got the weight of saving the galaxy from the decepticons while in charge of the all spark on his shoulders, while surrounded by insubordination.

I think it was very in character for Animated Prime.

Oh yes, and seeing cybertron mode megatron again, man, that is awesome beyond awesome. I'm really liking megatron the most. Now we just have to wonder what causes him to get an earth mode. My guess is that dinobots turn up at the last second.........
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Pulse
30th March 2008, 06:59 PM
Animated Prime questioning his leadership really brought back comparisons to Rodimus. It's like they've taken Animated Optimus & channelled the spirit of Rodimus within him.

Not a great move writers, not a great move at all.

MV75
30th March 2008, 07:04 PM
I thought it more like that noone was taking him seriously as a leader.
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GoktimusPrime
30th March 2008, 08:17 PM
The problem is a clash of mindsets. Animated Prime - in this episode (and I've not seen evidence of it in previous episodes) was going by the old school authoritarian model of leadership that was common amongst pre-Generation Xers (e.g.: Baby Boomers) - how often have we heard stories about "when I was your age we never spoke back to parents/teachers etc" - and that was true. People in authority were given absolute respect without question. This is the kind of respect that Ratchet, the old timer, was willing to give to Prime. Prowl was trying to be respectful to, in line with the kind of "oriental" martial culture that the character is set in - yes, he kept Dinobot Island a secret, but he was never openly insolent toward Optimus about it.

Sari and Bumblebee are more representative of the attitudes towards authority that we see amongst Generation Y where respect toward authority is not automatically endowed but must be earnt. The whole "that's an order!" line just doesn't work in a post Vietnam War & Watergate western culture.

Sari wasn't cooperating and couldn't really understand as well as prime does the absolute danger she was in while holding the key. He had to step in and act as the "parent" instead of the "friend" to resolve the situation.
And Sari's selfishness was something else that really annoyed me. I thought that we had moved on from Sari being the selfish brat that treated the key as a toy. Her moment of selfishness felt like a massive step backwards in Sari's character growth.

But Prime ordering Ratchet to forcibly confiscate the key from Sari was a mistake - something that Ratchet wanted to tell Prime, but knew that Prime wasn't in the mood to listen, so he just bit his lip and followed Prime's order. I can understand why Prime wanted to confiscate the key, but forcibly removing it wasn't good. The Animated Prime I know would've counselled Sari and verbally convinced her to surrender the key to him without humiliating her.

The dinobots existence and goings on behind his back without being informed totally mowed down his authority.
Not if he listened to Prowl's motives for doing it. Prime had ordered the Dinobots to be destroyed because he wasn't aware that they had been imbued with sparks and had become living Transformers. I can totally understand Prime being upset with Prowl for not confiding in him with the secret of the Dinobots sooner, but I think it was over the top for Prime to go so far as to undermine everything Prowl was saying just because of that.

It reeked of, "I can't believe you didn't tell me this before, so from now on I'm not going to listen to anything you have to say! Nyah nyah nyah!" Yes, Prowl should have told you sooner, but that doesn't mean that his opinions are completely invalid and don't warrant being heard! It was like his decisions were being clouded by his anger at Prowl for having wrong him... he took it so personally, and it effected his leadership.

It's fine for Prime to express his anger at Prowl and reprimand him for not having consulted with him about the Dinobots before - I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is how Prime allowed this anger to interfere with his actions, something which I find entirely out of character for Animated Prime. How many times has Bumblebee annoyed the crap out of Prime and he never allowed that to cloud his judgement? And as I mentioned before, Sentinel Prime was a complete A-hole during that flashback with them and Elita-One, yet Prime remained cool and collected, particularly when it came to saving Sentinel jerk-face. And when he met Blackarachnia, who blamed Optimus for her predicament, despite the fact that Optimus didn't intentionally mean to abandon her and wouldn't have if he'd known that she was still functional - he remained collected and offered to help Blackarachnia.

Prime's anger and frustration in this episode just seemed unnecessarily over the top with no seeming series of events to trigger it.

Oh yes, and seeing cybertron mode megatron again, man, that is awesome beyond awesome. I'm really liking megatron the most.
...man Dr. Sumdac is such a freakin' moron. Even when the Decepticons busted into the lab he kept working on Megatron's body and didn't even begin suspecting a thing until Lugnut stated that Megatron was the leader of the Decepticons. (-_-) Now I really understand Meltdown's beef with him - he's a dumb@$$ who just got a lucky break.

As for Animated Megatron... he's been a fairly interesting villain thus far. Having a body gives him potential to be a far more deadly villain, but time will tell in terms of how menacing the writers will make him. I'm hoping that he's going to be a more intelligent villain (like Beast Wars/Machines Megatron) rather than just being a big thug.

I really like Animated Megatron's voice - even more than I like BW/BM Megatron's voice! BW/BM Megatron is still my favourite Megatron, but Animated Megatron has my favourite Megatron voice.

Corey Burton manages to do a far better English accent than David Kaye (whose attempt at giving BW/BM Megatron a "British" accent frequently slipped all over the place - although the actual voice itself was still very cool). Burton also voiced Shockwave in G1 who had a rather English sounding accent iirc - and I think Burton has carried that accent onto Animated Megatron, but given it a far more menacing tone.

Saving Megatron till this point and gradually introducing him as a villain has been interesting to watch and there's obviously a lot of expectations from fans now that he's going to be really cool. Here's hoping that he can live up to our expectations. :)

kup
30th March 2008, 08:24 PM
Gok,

Please hide the Beast Wars spoilers as a couple of people here are still watching it for the first time such as STL.

autobreadticon
30th March 2008, 10:25 PM
i really liked it, any nods to the g1 series. Good story and action. cant wait till part 2

Tetsuwan Convoy
31st March 2008, 01:16 AM
Yeh, I LOVE Animated Megs Voice. Its so creepy and kind of "nice" and yet has a sound of menace behind it. Yes, I will settle for Menace as my preferred word for that jumbled sentence. Love it to bits.

I have atheory on Black arach. She and Prowl will get it on Silverbolt and B.A style. My evidence? In home is where the spark is Prowl goes on and on about how fab organic stuff is. B.A being a bit organic will cause his fule pump to burst with "hot-n-sweaty-Ninja-love(tm)!"

Pulse
31st March 2008, 02:21 AM
I have atheory on Black arach. She and Prowl will get it on Silverbolt and B.A style. My evidence? In home is where the spark is Prowl goes on and on about how fab organic stuff is. B.A being a bit organic will cause his fule pump to burst with "hot-n-sweaty-Ninja-love(tm)!"

Ahhh, Yeahhh.

Um, no comment :D

goro
31st March 2008, 08:51 AM
oh and tyhat clearly isnt cybertron mode megatron.. he seems to be a cross between earth megs and cybertron megs...

have a look at his shoulders and ankles.. the body and face itself is clearly earth megs ...

have a look at the following -

http://photos-b.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sctm/v204/52/98/513175871/n513175871_654905_1668.jpg

leader mode toy (earth megs) -

http://www.tfw2005.com/resources/attachment.php?do=fullview&attachmentid=4966

MV75
31st March 2008, 10:17 AM
Hey, you're right. :)

I also just looked back to the first episode, and yea, he doesn't have the "blitzwing" shoulders then like he does now.

Looks awesome in robot mode still though. :) Which is good because I really didn't like the earth vehicle mode that much in the toy.
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GoktimusPrime
31st March 2008, 01:21 PM
Yeh, I LOVE Animated Megs Voice. Its so creepy and kind of "nice" and yet has a sound of menace behind it. Yes, I will settle for Menace as my preferred word for that jumbled sentence. Love it to bits.

It's cruel but civilised - the sophisticated villain, like Magneto or Grand Moff Tarkin. ;)

http://www.x-mencharacters.com/images/magneto2.jpghttp://www.artandeth.com/Gallery2/ActorsC/4039-18163.gif

sifun
31st March 2008, 03:12 PM
Kinda boring that episode. nothing really happens, but I guess thats because its a part 1.

Gutsman Heavy
31st March 2008, 04:55 PM
I loved it. I really am a sucker for this show, I need part 2 now!

i_amtrunks
1st April 2008, 09:00 AM
It's cruel but civilised - the sophisticated villain, like Magneto

Exactly, the kind of villain who can talk their way to an advantage, as well as fight. Someone who very very rarely does not get what they want.

STL
1st April 2008, 10:35 AM
I thoroughly enjoyed this episde. The best to date. In a BW-esque type of way, many plot threads came together and gave us some of the payoffs we've been anticipating. It really succeeds b/c it brings together many levels of conflict. From Black Arachnia to Starscream to the Dinobots to they key itself, we have a tale that is very well constructed. It preserves the humour and fun yet gives us a story crafted with delicacy that is rife with engaging conflicts and struggles.

It gets us to take sides and adopt allegiances and look down on others. This creates a wonderful tension. BB and Sari are for instance frustrating in their departure and blatant disregard for the strategic weight of what Optimus is suggest. But you can feel for Optimus while you also hope Sari and BB don't get into too much trouble.

Prowl is independent. He has refused to tell Optimus about the Dinobots until now. You can appreciate why he has done so, but you can understand Optimus' anger at finding out. I think it gives an extra layer to Prowl to have not so willing to fall into line.

Starscream and Megatron's exchanges are delightfully intense. The duality there really makes the episode all the more engaging.

There are plenty more of those type of things and that's why this episode has me on the edge of my seat waiting for next Sunday.

The Dinobots were perhaps the only low point of this. I wish they were smarter.

I liked this episode, something that this series has proven is that it can handle Decepticons very well (with the exception of the first Blackarachnia episode which was crap IMO). Its a real shame that the Decepticon episodes are fairly rare and the bulk of the series are these really absurd and stupid episodes which bring down the overall series into lame territory.
.

Agreed. I think it's because all the Decepticon episodes help to give significance to the larger Transformer universe. It's a constant reminder that the Autobots will have to come to terms with the bigger issues in the universe. I think that's why they work. It reminds that this insular city of Detroit is not the be all, end all of this conflict.

Anyone else here think that BlackArachnia has a very big part to play in part 2?


Definitely. I really enjoyed the twisted way the writers drew a parallel between her and Sari's plight. It made Black Arachnia seem a twisted and torn enough character while being evil and resentful.


Bumblebee still irks me though, but at least his little hissy fit was true to his character as well.

I agree. He's annoying but he's performing his function. I don't like him but little sister loves him. She wants one more than she wants a G1 Jazz now! *sigh* He's not the kind of character I'd like my sister to identify with but I guess to little kids his snappy repartee is rather alluringly amusing.

As for the issue regarding Prime, MV75 sums up my pov:

Seemed pretty much in character to me.

Sari wasn't cooperating and couldn't really understand as well as prime does the absolute danger she was in while holding the key. He had to step in and act as the "parent" instead of the "friend" to resolve the situation.

The dinobots existence and goings on behind his back without being informed totally mowed down his authority.

And bumblebee disobeying direct orders and thus ignoring him as a leader added to it too.

So he's got the weight of saving the galaxy from the decepticons while in charge of the all spark on his shoulders, while surrounded by insubordination.

I think it was very in character for Animated Prime.



I find it rather amusing whenever a new leader exhibits a high degree of doubt or frustration. Our fickle fandom is very quick to cast labels of "Rodimus" or "whining/annoying" on said character. Animated Prime here is a new character. He's never been a leader in the war. He was just in charge of a Space Bridge repair crew. That's nowhere near as significant as protecting the All Spark from the mighty Megatron.

TFA Optimus Prime is a noob for all intents and purposes. He is coming to terms with the role he must play. With more Decepticon numbers on Earth, the tension is visibly rising. He knows well enough that Transformers don't get destroyed. Lugnut and Blitzwing are out there somewhere. Starscream will be back. Lockdown has been here already. He's been entrusted with safeguarding one of the things that if in Decepticon hands could see the universe under the heel of evil. His frustration is understandable.

He's put up w/ BB and Sari, He's encouraged them to have fun. But crunch time is now and he's got to start questioning himself. He's angry b/c he can't bring the team together. And face it, he's right. They're not a team. They couldn't handle Starscream or Lugnut and Blitzwing. They're in big trouble. The pressure is on him to try and get them to fall into line at a very important juncture.

I think what TFA is doing is grooming Prime. They're going to make him Prime. Too often, versions of Prime has fallen into the role of leadership too easily. I think this Prime is serving the hardest apprenticeship yet. He's not the commander of the Autobot army. He's just a space bridge repairbot who has to assume responsibility. And I think it'll be entertaining to watch this Prime grow in stature.

kup
1st April 2008, 11:11 AM
Agreed. I think it's because all the Decepticon episodes help to give significance to the larger Transformer universe. It's a constant reminder that the Autobots will have to come to terms with the bigger issues in the universe. I think that's why they work. It reminds that this insular city of Detroit is not the be all, end all of this conflict.


I still think that the 'filler' episodes (which are the mayor bulk of this series) could have been done, much, much better. There shouldn't be such a massive contrast between the Decepticon episodes and the regular ones.

I would be a fan of this series if most of the episodes were similar in quality as the Decepticon episodes but most of them are well..not so good (I am trying to be diplomatic here as I actually think they are crappy beyond believe :p)

I know that they are supposed to be filler episodes but fillers doesn't mean its alright for them to be bad. Look at the 2003 TMNT series, not all episodes are about the Shredder but many of their filler episodes are of similar quality as the main ones too.

GoktimusPrime
1st April 2008, 03:10 PM
I find it rather amusing whenever a new leader exhibits a high degree of doubt or frustration. Our fickle fandom is very quick to cast labels of "Rodimus" or "whining/annoying" on said character. Animated Prime here is a new character. He's never been a leader in the war. He was just in charge of a Space Bridge repair crew. That's nowhere near as significant as protecting the All Spark from the mighty Megatron.
I'm not critical against Prime in this episode for getting angry and frustrated - it's just that I felt that it was over the top and kinda sprang out of nowhere. This is different from say when Optimus Primal was yelling at Silverbolt when he discovered his secret liaisons with Blackarachnia - the Maximals at that point in a very precarious position. And ditto when G1 Prime despaired after Ratchet's "death." These things were triggered after a series of events that led up to it - i.e.: events simmering to a boiling point until the character exploded.

I'm just not seeing it with Animated Prime. There was no immediate threat to the Autobots as far as he was aware of. As far as he knew:
+ Megatron: KIA
+ Lockdown: KIA
+ Blitzwing: KIA
+ Lugnut: KIA
+ Soundwave: KIA
+ Starscream: MIA
+ Blackarachnia: MIA

So at worst there are two Decepticons who might unite against them. And they have five Autobots. (-_-)

...actually, I forget why Prime doesn't just call Cybertron and tell them that they have possession of the AllSpark and request reinforcements for retrieval and extraction.

I don't dislike Prime in this episode at all - I just thought that the whole anger/frustration thing was overdone, to the point where he did things that were out of character for him, like outrightly refusing to listen to his comrades and simply not caring about Sari's feelings.

The_Damned
1st April 2008, 03:27 PM
i dont know why everyone thinks the dinobots should be smarter as they are robotic dinosaurs which have been imbued with a spark and would be the equivalent of babies or children.

GoktimusPrime
1st April 2008, 03:36 PM
...Soundwave was a mindless drone who was imbued with a spark but became self aware and decided that humans were inferior to machines and declared war on humans.

I find the Dinobots to be just really disinteresting characters. Even Noble/Savage was a far more interesting character, despite being savage.

iceburn
1st April 2008, 04:11 PM
Gok, Soundwave wasn't really KIA...

Tober
1st April 2008, 05:02 PM
Nor were the others...

I think you need to read what he wrote a little more closely. :P

------------------------------

The Dinobots were daft in G1 so they are daft in TFA. Like the way some people are just born naturally stupid.

GoktimusPrime
1st April 2008, 05:38 PM
As far as he knew:

I know that most of them aren't KIA, but look at it from Optimus Prime and the Autobot's POV:

+ Megatron: caught in explosion on the Ark's hull, crashed on Earth. Presumed dead (even by the Decepticons until Megatron made contact with Lugnut)
+ Lockdown: actually, yeah, he's more MIA.
+ Blitzwing: blasted to smithereens by the Ark's guns.
+ Lugnut: also blasted to kingdom come by the Ark's guns. Both of these Decepticons would've died if they hadn't been saved by Starscream, which the Autobots had no knowledge of.
+ Soundwave: only the audience was shown a small portion of Soundwave surviving.
+ Starscream: MIA
+ Blackarachnia: MIA

STL
1st April 2008, 09:00 PM
What I believe is missing is the fact that to Prime, he feels like he's facing an onslaught. One after another, the Decepticons keep rolling in. To him, the situation seemed only to be escalating.

Put yourself in his shoes. That many Decepticons keep knocking on your door, you're bound to be agitated, frustrated and worried. Who will be next? Hence why he shows the signs of cracking under pressure. Even worse, he's not even a fully fledged warrior. He's had training and then spent cycles as a space bridge repairbot before facing down Decepticon after Decepticon. If I were him, my pants would be rather brown and not very aromatically pleasing.

All around him he sees, quite fairly, is a lack of discipline. When times are tough he needs to run a tighter ship and his inability to do so is really getting the better of him.

MV75
2nd April 2008, 06:46 AM
I don't dislike Prime in this episode at all - I just thought that the whole anger/frustration thing was overdone, to the point where he did things that were out of character for him, like outrightly refusing to listen to his comrades and simply not caring about Sari's feelings.


Dude, as a teacher you've been a "friend" to kids too long to understand that with sari he had to be the "parent". That is a command role which is too often confused with the friend (wrong) role of trying to gain compliance and teach socially acceptable behaviour. And of course the kid will then drop the "you don't love me" bomb to try and regain their past freedoms.

As for his comrades, he's simply pissed at being left out of the loop and disobeyed by his charges.

I thought I already explained that to you. ;)

And I've also highlighted it before, maybe I need to make the font bigger:

Animated Prime.

This is not BW/machines/rid/g1 prime at all. He's not even currently in the same league of command as those previous primes were, so there is no comparison.
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GoktimusPrime
2nd April 2008, 10:07 AM
(OFFTOPIC)
Dude, as a teacher you've been a "friend" to kids too long to understand that with sari he had to be the "parent". That is a command role which is too often confused with the friend (wrong) role of trying to gain compliance and teach socially acceptable behaviour.

Being a teacher and/or parent of children are absolutely command roles! As a teacher or parent you can be friends with the child(ren) under you, but your primary role is to be their teacher or parent, which means that you are the authority figure.

(/OFFTOPIC)

And of course the kid will then drop the "you don't love me" bomb to try and regain their past freedoms.

Having freedoms is fine, but freedom is power - let's all do the Spiderman mantra now: "with great power comes great responsibility"! In Sari's case, being the key's custodian is a priviledge, one which comes with great responsibility - and part of which is not playing with it like a toy. Prime was right to reprimand Sari for mucking around with the key, but I thought the execution was out of character for Animated Prime and could've been handled gooder.

As for his comrades, he's simply pissed at being left out of the loop and disobeyed by his charges.
And that's fine, but why let your emotions cloud your judgement? As the Jedi teach, allowing your emotions to conquer you is the path to the Dark Side. http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h236/brettben1/Emoticons/yoda.gif

I thought I already explained that to you.
I'm not asking "why is Prime so angry" - explain it all you like, that was never my question.

And I've also highlighted it before, maybe I need to make the font bigger:

Animated Prime.

This is not BW/machines/rid/g1 prime at all. He's not even currently in the same league of command as those previous primes were, so there is no comparison.

*sigh* re-read what I've written and try again.

I was comparing the way that the other Primes/Primals were written in terms of character development - I was never saying that he's the same as those other Optimi.

The whole over the top anger/frustration thing that Prime had in this episode was conceptually good but I felt that in execution was overdone making it feel kinda out of character for Animated Prime. In previous episodes of Animated, Optimus Prime has never come across to me as being someone who would be so passionately and recklessly out of control with his emotions and allow those emotions to consume him, as it did Obi-Wan's appre--, uh, Animated Prime in this episode.

Look at Darth Vader (now please don't accuse me of suggesting that TF Animated is in the same continuity as Star Wars - this is just another character development comparison!!!) - we saw that Anakin Skywalker has always been a creature of passion and great emotion. In Episode I he had great compassion (selflessly wanting to help Qui-Gon Jinn & Co) and fear (for his mother). In Episode II we see that Anakin is frequently thinking more emotionally than logically in several situations, which cost him his right forearm at the hands of Count Dooku and of course, fostered the forbidden love between him and Padmé. His slaughter of the Tuskens was a sign of his anger and rage. But in spite of that, we do see Anakin always making a conscious effort to contain and control his emotions - even though it's an increasingly difficult challenge for him. After he killed the Tusken village he broke down and cried - admitting that it was wrong for him to do it and confessed his sin to Padmé (he later confessed it to Palpatine and a Tusken Jedi who advised him to confess to Yoda, but he never did) - "I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this."

In Episode III Palpatine seduced him to kill Dooku, but even then he instantly regretted it when he said, "I shouldn't have done that." - but finally he was consumed by his passion which of course allowed him to fall to the Dark Side of the Force. His passionate self, which came to be known as Darth Vader, betrayed and murdered his more rational self, Anakin Skywalker - hence why Obi-Wan told Luke that Vader killed Anakin.

So this is an example of an in-character character development. The story justifies Anakin "coming of rage." Obviously Prime's anger is no where near at the same level, but I felt that there was a lack of substantial development to build him to that level of anger and frustration, and the way that he coped and dealt with his anger and frustration just seemed out of character for him.

It's like, "WWAOPD" - "What Would Animated Optimus Prime Do?" ;)

Gah, sorry, bell just rang so I don't have time to conclude this post well. :/

griffin
3rd April 2008, 02:40 AM
I see quite a few parallels between Animated Optimus and BW Optimus. Both are new to the leadership role, and as such, are only in command of a small team on one exploration/maintanance vessel. Both Optimus' are still yet to earn the loyalty of teams at the time of their arrival on Earth. Both tend to rely on a veteran of the team as a crutch, while having trouble in getting the rest to follow his orders.
The main difference though, is that Animated Optimus actually had military training (the amount is still yet to be disclosed), which should make him a more capable warrior, but his lack of military experience (like BW Optimus) is his flaw, so he doesn't yet have the confidence to tackle the Decepticons, or have the reliability of his subordinates following his orders without question.
I think the flaw of the Animated series is that it is being written too heavily for 5-8 year olds, so the behaviour and characteristics of the cast reflect the behaviour of that age-group, to make it easier for them to relate to what they are watching. Misbehaving, disrespectful, sneaky - concepts young kids can relate to, so unfortunately the 'integrity' of the Autobot name is being corrupted by the Animated writers just to get ratings.
I'm disappointed that Animated Optimus hasn't yet 'got a pair' after 15 episodes, and don't hold out much hope that he ever will if the upcoming storyarc pertaining to 'other Autobots' has him running around as a subordinate himself (I'm guessing this - it is not a spoiler).
At least BW Optimus had his moments when he would just snap, take charge, kick butt, and save the day.
It's not surprising that Animated Optimus hasn't really had this sort of moment, since most episodes so far haven't involved more than one Decepticon (if any), to threaten them.