Do we want to be associated with this?

[Bartrim]

Interesting find on facebook.

A industrial/goth dance party with a Cybertron tag. As a transformers fans do we want to associated with this crowd? Is any publicity for transformers good publicity? Feel free to discuss:)


http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=23461687416

Mods. I posted this in the non tf forum because it's not a tf event. However if you think it should be moved feel free (like I could stop you:p)

[jaydisc]

I think it's a non-event (pun intended) as far as TF fans are concerned. It's just a goth party borrowing some TF branding.

[kup]

We could make it the next fan meet just to see what the heck is all about. If they are all Emos then chances are that we will need to bring some tissues.

[roller]

i cant read the site

but remember all those goth girls i kept getting hugs off in Sydney,thankyou optimus prime voice changer


now i have to sharpen my wrist blade

[griffin]

I think the focus is on the non-TFs element here, borrowing a current recognisable theme, without any commitment to that theme. Kinda like the NZ music group Decepticonz (spelling could be off), which even use the Decepticon symbol on their merchandise - I doubt they are TFs fans, but probably just have a related rebelious, non-conformist (Decepticon) theme in their music.

Since you need Facebook registration to access that link, someone who does could probably paste here some of the actual text details to give an idea of how much of a TFs theme this event has.

[GoktimusPrime]

I once wore a white shirt with a Decepticon logo and Kickback on it to Bloodlust (a goth dance club) and of course, a black shirt with a Decepticon logo and Optimus Prime helmet to the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras. :p

And yeah, a Megatron costume on a bus. :)

[Burn]

Since you need Facebook registration to access that link, someone who does could probably paste here some of the actual text details to give an idea of how much of a TFs theme this event has.

Event InfoName:
Shallow Nation : Cybertron
Host:
Shallow Nation
Type:
Party - Night of Mayhem
Time and PlaceStart Time:
Saturday, April 26, 2008 at 9:00pm
End Time:
Sunday, April 27, 2008 at 3:00am
Location:
Coming Soon
City/Town:
Sydney, Australia

There's also a little image which may or may not require you to be logged in to Facebook to see.

http://profile.ak.facebook.com/object2/1792/40/n23461687416_4833.jpg

So far 7 people have confirmed they'll be there, 9 maybes, 10 won't be attending and waiting on replies from 29 others.

As far as TF related, there's really not much about TF's.

They also have a MySpace page

http://www.myspace.com/officalshallownation

[Tiby]

I really don't get why people bad-mouth emos or any other group. While they may be different, that is what makes people interesting. I don't see why conformists should determine what is normal and what is not.

We all like TFs for varied reasons, and "emos" are just people after all. In fact, if we followed the conformist rules, I guarantee you that many of us would never have interacted with each other until we found our common thread: TFs.

[turtle boy]

this cybertron thing is also on some site called vampirefreaks??? i'm not sure if thats correct or not but yeah, its also a dance club.... http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff1/turtleboy411/cybertron_april_s.jpg

[GoktimusPrime]

I really don't get why people bad-mouth emos or any other group. While they may be different, that is what makes people interesting. I don't see why conformists should determine what is normal and what is not.

We all like TFs for varied reasons, and "emos" are just people after all. In fact, if we followed the conformist rules, I guarantee you that many of us would never have interacted with each other until we found our common thread: TFs.
Because being emo is kinda like glorifying or making a sub-culture out of depression. And depression is a serious mental condition which shouldn't be glorified. People who suffer from it need to seek help, rather than revelling in it and taking pride in it (that's right, "Emo Pride").

Is it acceptable for people to belong to a group where people commit acts of self-harm such as cutting themselves? And they do it because they feel that life is so numbingly bad that they need to inflict pain onto themselves in order to remind themselves that they're still alive.

Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGLv3IEL0VI

Although it's a mockumentary, a lot of it's funny because it's true. Emos do tend to act more emotionally rather than thinking logically, and they thrive on presenting themselves as being depressed and upset all the time. It makes them even more irrational than most other kids - and I gotta tell ya, it's bloody frustrating to work with. (-_-)

No matter how irrational most other people get, deep down most people want to do what's right and they want good things to happen for them. Emos don't. They kinda "like" their lives to suck.

And I've spoken to our school counsellor about some of the emo kids at our school and even s/he's at his/her wit's end in terms of what to do with them, because they simply refuse to be helped.

Having said all that, a person who admits to being emo is a LOT easier to work with than an emo in denial. I find that kids are easier to work with when they know that they're having an irrational emotional outburst because they have virtually no self esteem as opposed to those who are in denial of their lack of self image. Mind you, the frustrating thing is that they don't want to or believe that anything can be done to build their self esteem. They see themselves as eternally lost causes.

I find that emo culture revolves around the principle of 'my life sucks, so I'm going to have a life-long sook about it.'

Kids who are known to self-harm are always flagged for priority psychiatric assessment for obvious reasons.

[Tiby]

Thanks Gok. I agree that depression is dangerous, but it is good that it is at least recognised by many of them.

I think it is very dangerous to see rationality and logic as right, and emotion, however expressed, as wrong. I see these people as simply looking for attention in a new way. Unfortunately our society thrives on extremes and where attention is only given to those who stand out, this makes sense.

Of course, people need to want to be helped before they can be helped, but further ostracising them and persecuting them is not justified. Most of these people are teens or young adults, who are already looking for identity in a world that pushes conformity, consumption and excess, and they have found a group that fits them.

I'd be interested to see how many "grow out of it" so to speak, or continue to stay this way their whole lives.

I think if current counselling/teaching etc systems are failing to deal with this new form of expression, then the systems need to develop and learn that this is real.

It reminds me of the baby-boomers and Gen X constantly criticising Gen Y for their "work ethic", failing to recognise they are a product of the generations that have come before, and failing to validate Gen Y's own way of doing things.

If counsellors etc can tap into the groups, that will make it easier to help them, because the groups are a magnet for kids who feel that their life sucks, and the groups recognise and acknowledge depression. This acknowledgement is more than what the baby-boomers and half of Gen X have been able to manage.

[roller]

i agree with Gok

Star treks Mr Spock was right

all hail Mr Spock

Live long and prosper

[kup]

Let's not mix Emos with Goths. They are not the same thing although to the untrained eye they look similar.

Emos as Gok said is a communal glorification of depression. They like getting together with others who feel the same way because naturally, missery likes company. These people refuse to better themselves and just dwell on how everything sucks.

Goths on the other hand are something entirely different. I will quote from wikipedia as my explanation could be a bit clumsy:


The goth subculture has associated tastes in music, aesthetics, and fashion, whether or not all individuals who share those tastes are in fact members of the goth subculture. Gothic music encompasses a number of different styles. Common to all is a tendency towards a lugubrious, mystical sound and outlook. Styles of dress within the subculture range from deathrock, punk, androgynous, medieval, some Renaissance and Victorian style clothes, or combinations of the above, most often with black attire, makeup and hair.

The awful thing is that in recent times the everyday community has begun to mix Goths and Emos into the same subculture when they are entirely different things.

I can respect a Goth but I can't a self destructive Emo.

[kup]

That was a nice video you linked Gok but its very inacurate on what's emo.

As freaky as this may be, I have noticed that this comes pretty close to describing what emo is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nRNYG_xM2U

He is just like a real Emo! (Seriously!!)

[STL]

I tend to find the utter disregard for emos rather distasteful. It can be a focal point of jokes among friends but I find it disappointing when the actual view of emos is overwhelmingly dismissive and condescending. It is manifestly arrogant to stand back and chastise a group w/out considering the reasons why people choose to behave a certain way. I agree w/ Tiby, there is a need to accept diversity, to accept differences.

To quote Optimus, "Were we so different?"

We need to build on that. We need to help these people. They are part of our society and it is saddening that they choose to be self-destructive. But I find tragic and lamentable that we would possess such lassitude in being constructive and helping.

To hide behind a veil of so-called rationality and logic and proclaim those as social vehicles of superiority is arrogant. At the most basest level, all of us possess an immense capacity to be emotional. We are all vulnerable whether we like to admit it or not. If the correct triggers are applied, each and every one of us can be subject to a full ambit of emotions that can encourage the manifestation of destructive tendencies.

I think, Gok, your arguments are inherently flawed and lacking in compassion. To view the matter in such an insular manner is I looking past the greatest attribute and asset that we as a society can have: compassion. Compassion is a cheque that can be presented before the bank of humanity. It can be dishonoured but I would find it tragically saddening if we did so as I would hope that our vaults carry a wealth of compassion that far exceeds our arrogance and contempt for those that are different to us.

[Burn]

I'll admit, when it comes to making fun of Emos, i'm there.

It's not because i'm a heartless prick who doesn't care, because i've dealt with depression myself. It's just that the Emo lifestyle has become so damn stupid.

To me, the current crop of "Emo kids" aren't true Emos, they're just embracing a culture. Sure, a good chunk of them may be genuinely depressed, but I can see the Emo culture being taken over by wannabes, much like Punk and Goth has been, to the point it eventually just becomes a fad or fashion statement.

Do some of the Emo kids need help? Sure. But that's the other thing I never understood. Why, in a group environment, does the depression continue? In my way of thinking (and I will happily be proved wrong on this), this group are friends, while I know depression can be a VERY dark thing and make you blind to the good around you, I really find it hard to believe that a group of people cannot support each other and help each other through the darkness.

It's why I can't help but feel a lot of them CHOOSE to be depressed and CHOOSE the Emo lifestyle because it's "cool".

Another thing I find odd is the rise in "Emo music". We've had Punk and Goth music, now Emo music is on the rise. And the scary thing? I like some of these groups (eg OneRepublic) and had no idea they were "Emo" until some radio announcer said so. Then again, I probably shouldn't listen to radio announcers as the majority of them have the collective intelligence of a dead wombat. :p

[STL]

I'll admit, when it comes to making fun of Emos, i'm there.



Me too. My gripe is more of our overall attitude to them. Hell, we make fun of a heap of things we shouldn't but it doesn't mean they reflect our personal belief systems.

I don't even care about the labelling of music unless it helps me find the right section to look for it.



Then again, I probably shouldn't listen to radio announcers as the majority of them have the collective intelligence of a dead wombat. :p

oooohhh! Wombats. Read this.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/28/2201791.htm
:D

[roller]

if they all listened to Amy Grant and watched Jennifer luv hewitt then the League of Nations would be effective

[Bartrim]

Yeah I'm up there too with making fun of emo's. But like Burn I'm finding that I like the music. Speaking of music I've been watching American Idol and I'm curious would people consider David Cook emo or not. He has certain aspects (painted nails, fringe to the side) but he is quite a happy person.

[Burn]

oooohhh! Wombats. Read this.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/03/28/2201791.htm
:D

It was that which inspired me to use "dead wombat", I was going to throw in something about the rape but figured that wouldn't be in good taste at all.


Speaking of music I've been watching American Idol and I'm curious would people consider David Cook emo or not. He has certain aspects (painted nails, fringe to the side) but he is quite a happy person.

I can't remember which one David Cook is (in fact I only care(d) about Jacuzzi and the Irish chick) but this is my point. Emo is becoming more of a fashion statement instead of a bunch of depressed kids who like to dress in black and cut themselves to "feel".

So he's probably more of a "pseudo-emo". Likes the look, but doesn't embrace the lifestyle.

[Bartrim]

I can't remember which one David Cook is (in fact I only care(d) about Jacuzzi and the Irish chick) .

David Cook is the one who's done the kick ass versions of Elanor Rigby, Daytripper and Billie Jean:)

[GoktimusPrime]

I mostly agree with what Burn's said. :)

[roller]

i have an idea that a certain micromaster once had


We steer these people towards buying lots of tfs, shelfwarmers. Then Hasbro will see that we have a big market place and send more toys here.

it can work!!!

Lets go Tyler!

[Tiby]

I think we need to be careful about claiming that kids have a choice about this. Most teenage kids are desperately looking for identity unconcsiously and often need to experience things before they can choose.

If they are feeling depressed (using their own definition, not ours) and find a group that accepts them for that, they would feel they have little choice in the matter.

I think it is far more disturbing that the media would then turn this into a fashion thing and an accepted mainstream position, rather than acknowledging that these are just kids with a certain view trying to find their way in the absence of proper adult mentoring, initiation ceremonies, manhood/womanhood rites and so on.

[Rampage]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1628/n7219833837834268125ml7.jpg

mocking emo's are we jeez i better get in on this:p