TF: Prime - Watch Prime's funny mouth

[kup]

Is it me or did the 14 year old Beast Wars have better mouth animation?

http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-prime-39/transformers-prime-brief-footage-from-hub-commercial-170720/

More movie 'influence' I guess. I wonder if Hasbro still wants to push WFC as being in continuity with this? The more that is revealed, the more different it seems.

[SharkyMcShark]

How are you playing off his poor face animation as being movie influenced?

[kup]

How are you playing off his poor face animation as being movie influenced?

I am guessing that the existence of a mouth is movie influenced.

The "poor" mouth animation is something else.

[SharkyMcShark]

Optimus Primal (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/c/c1/Optimusprimalbw.jpg) called, and (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/f/f2/Nemesis1_Optimus_unhappyface.jpg) he wants a word. (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/3/3e/BadSpark_Optimus_robot_mode.jpg)

[kup]

Optimus Primal (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/c/c1/Optimusprimalbw.jpg) called, and (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/f/f2/Nemesis1_Optimus_unhappyface.jpg) he wants a word. (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/3/3e/BadSpark_Optimus_robot_mode.jpg)

I am aware of Optimus Primal or I wouldn't have mentioned Beast Wars in the first post :rolleyes:

Do do you have an opinion on the subject or not?

[SharkyMcShark]

I'm waiting for more than 2.4 seconds of handicam youtube footage before I form an opinion.

So far I'm reminded why I prefer more visually busy faces as opposed to the shiny liquid metal look.

[kup]

I'm waiting for more than 2.4 seconds of handicam youtube footage before I form an opinion.

So far I'm reminded why I prefer more visually busy faces as opposed to the shiny liquid metal look.

It works when done properly. Beast Wars had that 'liquid metal' look on several character's mouths but they also added more detail and structure in the faces and movement so that it doesn't look as odd as it does here.

[Hursticon]

I'm sorry, but that lip/mouth area looks pathetic.

Why is it pathetic?
- No lips
- no lip/mouth articulation

Given, it is an extraordinarily short clip, but what has been shown is that these animators have achieved less with infinitely more than what the animators on Beast Wars had. :confused:

Molten Metal Mouth or not, Beast Wars' animation is 14 years old and what they were able to achieve just in the lip/mouth area kicks TF:Prime's Prime right in the skid-plate. ;)

I hope the writing will be where this new show shines, coz visually? - for me it's going the same way as Animated. :o

http://aworldtransformed.com/images/op25.jpg 2765

[Tober]

The lack of a nose and other facial detail makes it look really weird. :confused:

It looks unfinished. :o

[Bartrim]

Not really enough footage to warrant this sort of harsh criticism if you ask me. Like I've stated before I kearnt my lesson with animated so I'm waiting until I watch a few episodes before I make up my mind.

[Hursticon]

Not really enough footage to warrant this sort of harsh criticism if you ask me. Like I've stated before I kearnt my lesson with animated so I'm waiting until I watch a few episodes before I make up my mind.

I'm certainly not writing the show off... yet. :p

I still hold good hopes for the show, the voice cast is pretty A Grade, the fact that it has decent CG overall is great - I'm just nit-picking the animating/modelling of the mouth, which is really below a 14y/o par. ;)

Yes there are some minor quibbles that I have, I'm certainly not gonna judge it until I've seen it though - Animated sucked major Catalytic Converters visually but the story/writing I thought was really well done so I hope that TF:Prime at least equals this, for me. :)

[Doubledealer]

Animated sucked major Catalytic Converters visually

Wash your mouth out with Energon soap immedietely!! :p

[kup]

Wash your mouth out with Energon soap immedietely!! :p

I actually agree with him despite liking some Season 2 episodes and much of Season 3.

The style never fully agreed with me. However despite the similarities, I am not that sure if TF:Prime is actually trying to follow the animated style and may be doing it's own thing with movie detailing. Animated Optimus Prime had a more mature look despite being youngish as well as more face detailing such as a nose.

http://kupscigar.com/fun/prime_mouth.jpg

[gekisou]

Look... as an animator, I have to say that I would like to see more before I make a decision. Also, I think its the 'lack' of a nose that's putting me off but this could also not be the final product. It IS possible that there are still some renders to go and that this was 'rushed out' to fill that promo spot.
So, like I mentioned above, I'll make my decision when more comes out.

[Doubledealer]

http://kupscigar.com/fun/prime_mouth.jpg

Movie Prime meets Michael Jackson's surgeon? "Where ma nose at!"

[Tallestblue]

hmm...for some reason...that really creeps me out...

[Doubledealer]

If the first episode is about Prime holding a Minicon out of a tall skyscraper window, we can really start to worry...

[LordCyrusOmega]

It looks a bit like a fishes mouth.
Not really what we expect transformers to look like.
Everything else looks good though

[griffin]

Looks like a cyberman face...

[LordCyrusOmega]

Looks like a cyberman face...

CybermanOptimusPrime: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings...Delete, Delete"

[Hursticon]

Looks like a cyberman face...


CybermanOptimusPrime: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings...Delete, Delete"

Oh Dear Anubis! :D

That's the scariest idea of a Crossover I've ever heard... :eek::p

You thought "Nobody can defeat Starscream!" was bad? :rolleyes:

[5FDP]

*To Optimus Prime* "Got your nose" :p

[LordCyrusOmega]

Oh Dear Anubis! :D

That's the scariest idea of a Crossover I've ever heard... :eek::p

You thought "Nobody can defeat Starscream!" was bad? :rolleyes:

The Cybermen enslave the Autobots and Decepticons and its up to the doctor to free them while maintaining the time stream

[FFN]

I will wait to see more, but I hope this isn't a return to the bad old days of Energon and Cybertron's Japanese CG.

At least the stories will be better.

[gekisou]

The Cybermen enslave the Autobots and Decepticons and its up to the doctor to free them while maintaining the time stream

Man, I would watch a crossover like that. It would be awesome. Throw in the Daleks and it would be awesome. [Exterminate! Exterminate!]

[Towers_Spy]

Hmm. Voldemort Prime?

[LordCyrusOmega]

Hmm. Voldemort Prime?

Harry Potter and Doctor Who size up against Cyberman enslaved Autobots and Decepticons. Suddenly the Daleks arrive and their day goes from bad to worst.

I think we've gone off topic here. Or i have

[Hursticon]

Harry Potter and Doctor Who size up against Cyberman enslaved Autobots and Decepticons. Suddenly the Daleks arrive and their day goes from bad to worst.

I think we've gone off topic here. Or i have

That is, until Voltron: Defender of The Universe steps in to save the day... and this thread, lol. :p:D

[LordCyrusOmega]

I think it's beyond the point of saving.
Is there any money to be paid from a story like that?

[Sleeve]

Movie Prime meets Michael Jackson's surgeon? "Where ma nose at!"

IDW 'Infiltration' Wheeljack has it.

[GoktimusPrime]

How are you playing off his poor face animation as being movie influenced?


I am guessing that the existence of a mouth is movie influenced.

The "poor" mouth animation is something else.

I'm inclined to agree with SharkyMcShark here -- Optimus Prime (and not Optimus Primal) had a mouth long before the movie came along.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/optimusprime_mouthes.jpg
Clockwise from top-left: G1 Optimus Prime, Cybertron Optimus Prime, Machine Wars Optimus Prime, Animated Optimus Prime, Movie Optimus Prime, G2 Gobot Optimus Prime. So as you can see there were several instances were Optimus Prime had a mouth prior to the movie.

But I kinda agree with you too kup -- I do think the head design is certainly heavily influenced by the movie, and it's like they're "cartoonising" the design to make it more 'kid-friendly'. This is mostly evident not so much from the presence of a mouth, but from the colours and head design (e.g. the silver grills on the cheek guards).

And I'm undecided atm whether or not I like these designs (I'm reserving judgment until I see the show) - but I can understand why Hasbro would consider making this move. The movie franchise has proven to be very successfully, but it's M rating kinda restricts it from younger children - who are Hasbro's bread and butter for the Transformers franchise (which is first and foremost a children's toy line). So I understand them wanting to cash in on the movie franchise's success while making it more accessible to younger audiences too. And now would be the best time to make such a move.

Ultimately what I really want to see are some kick-arse toys and a good story for this show.


The lack of a nose and other facial detail makes it look really weird. :confused:

It looks unfinished. :o

I think that's the main difference between what we've seen so far of Prime Optimus Prime and Optimus Primal - Optimus Primal had facial details... like lips!


Looks like a cyberman face...


CybermanOptimusPrime: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings...Delete, Delete"

Does this mean that Prime Optimus Prime's weakness is if we rub toys like Slog, Bristleback etc. against his chest? ;) "Can't... withstand... brittle gold plastic!!" *flop*


Hmm. Voldemort Prime?
lol :D

[King Atlas]

I disagree with what you have pictured. Unless you meant to say prior to TF: Prime, why did you include Movie Prime and Animated? And the go-bot and machine wars prime are both redecoes.

Cybertron Optimus Prime takes heavy influence from Optimus Primal, wouldn't you agree? (the face, not the body)
Sorry, not sure about your first pic, I can't comment on that one.


So yeah, I believe it is movie influenced.

[LordCyrusOmega]

Isn't the whole series movie influence? At least the animation is

[kup]

Common sense can tell you that the decision was Movie influenced.

I seriously doubt that Optimus Primal or Cybertron Optimus Prime were in mind when the TF:Prime character design was made.

[Tober]

The movie designs were given human-ish faces to better convey emotion and interact with the human cast on that level.

It's kinda interesting what they are doing with the TF: Prime faces - just using a cut-out sheet for the eyes and mouth shapes. I guess they will use the eye holes to mimic eyebrows and lids to get the characters to emote.

I still don't like how it looks tho. Having the face pinned on like that looks like something out of Silence of the Lambs or Hellraiser. :eek:

[LordCyrusOmega]

Is this the final product? Maybe they're just base faces that will have more details added to them later

[Tober]

Is this the final product? Maybe they're just base faces that will have more details added to them later

You can see some of the character designs here (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-prime-39/hubworld-official-launch---transformers-prime-character-renders-games-and-more-170643/).

That Prime face is being used for promotional material, so I'm sure it's the final design, even though he wears a faceplate most of the time (apparently).

[SkyWarp91]

If they release toys for this cartoon, I sure hope they'll release a Prime without his mouthplate (or a retractable one at least) because he looks AWESOME!!!

[LordCyrusOmega]

They do look awesome. I just hope if it's decent and they have a good toyline it doesn't get cancelled because of a movie. Like animated did. *glares at ROTF*

[GoktimusPrime]

I disagree with what you have pictured. Unless you meant to say prior to TF: Prime, why did you include Movie Prime and Animated? And the go-bot and machine wars prime are both redecoes.
I made that image like 3 years ago for another discussion - i.e. when people were claiming that movie Prime having a mouth was an unprecedented move. And while Go-Bot and MW Prime may be repaints, they still count as Optimus Primes with mouths.


Cybertron Optimus Prime takes heavy influence from Optimus Primal, wouldn't you agree? (the face, not the body)
Yeah, I'd agree with that.


Sorry, not sure about your first pic, I can't comment on that one.
That's from The Great Car Rally (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/The_Great_Car_Rally), published 1984/85; it may be the earliest example of Optimus Prime with a mouth.

[kup]

Yeah, the closest thing we ever had to that TF:Prime Optimus face is from the Great Car Rally.

http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/e/e1/KidsPrime1.jpg

Naturally this is unintended but nevertheless, something that should have stayed buried in the past.


....If I were Cliffjumper, I would not be able to help myself and bludgeon Spike to death with that trophy. That freaky smile! Kill him!!

[5FDP]

He's a party robot :D

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6158/drunkprime.jpg

[GoktimusPrime]

You should use that image to welcome new members to the board 5FDP ;)

[5FDP]

What a great idea Gok :) It will be done ;)

[MidAge]

Obviously unfinished head sculpt.:mad:

[kup]

Obviously unfinished head sculpt.:mad:

We hope but I doubt it. They wouldn't have made such an upfront close up on an unfinished concept while doing a promo.

[GoktimusPrime]

Judging from the artwork in the TF Prime comic book, the designs certainly do look very movie inspired.

[kup]

Judging from the artwork in the TF Prime comic book, the designs certainly do look very movie inspired.

The 'continuity' with WFC seems ever more distant.

[GoktimusPrime]

The story does begin showing a dystopic Cybertron. I still haven't finished WFC yet so not sure how this would tie in with WFC (if at all) yet.

[SharkyMcShark]

The 'continuity' with WFC seems ever more distant.

The designs in WFC were largely movie inspired too to be fair.

[5FDP]

The designs in WFC were largely movie inspired too to be fair.

Aside from Bumblebee being yellow, I disagree :)

[VERT]

WFC is G1. Well I remember an interview with the Game designers who said that. Dont know what Hasbro are thinking when they said the other. Archer been smoking funny stuff again :D Just look at the characters in WFC they actually look like who they are meant to be. Movie Universe cant say that.

[SharkyMcShark]

Aside from Bumblebee being yellow, I disagree :)

Well on the movie aesthetic side you've got

- The ultra complicated transformations - nothing classical about those, definitely movie inspired (which isn't to say that just any complex transformation makes it movie style, but that these specifically are movie style transformations)

- Bits and pieces of the robot modes whirring and clicking internally even if you're standing still (I actually really liked this touch. Even if you just stand still your character isn't static, there are little bits and pieces all over it moving)

- Everyones forearms becoming weapons instead of traditional rifles and guns as seen elsewhere

- Like in the movie continuity Cybertron is spiky, pointy and angular, unlike the smoother Cybertron seen in other continuities

I can go on. Smiley face.

[kup]

Well on the movie aesthetic side you've got

- The ultra complicated transformations - nothing classical about those, definitely movie inspired (which isn't to say that just any complex transformation makes it movie style, but that these specifically are movie style transformations)

- Bits and pieces of the robot modes whirring and clicking internally even if you're standing still (I actually really liked this touch. Even if you just stand still your character isn't static, there are little bits and pieces all over it moving)

- Everyones forearms becoming weapons instead of traditional rifles and guns as seen elsewhere

- Like in the movie continuity Cybertron is spiky, pointy and angular, unlike the smoother Cybertron seen in other continuities

I can go on. Smiley face.

Actually WFC Cybertron is much more detailed and a more realistic version of the G1 cartoon Cybertron - The Bay Movie cybertron was this desert thing with a few crystal like spikes for buildings.

WFC is indeed much more detailed than G1 ever was but the character models are still much closer to G1 than the movie. It is actually a very nice modernisation of G1 character models. I am not sure if the moving detailing are the direct result of movie influence but if it is, then at least they picked what was good about the Bayformer designs rather than what was not so good.

The transformations in WFC are more complex than G1 but when you watch them closely, they do make more sense and fit into place more logically than the very 'cheaty' Movie transformations.

[Hursticon]

I'd have to agree with Kup and 5FDP on this one, as I don't see any Bay-Movie aesthetic in WFC, figures or otherwise. :o

@SharkyMcShark: On the "Ultra Complicated Transformations" front, I've now got 4 of the WFC figures and in all honesty they're all really quite simple, intuitive, but simple. :)
That is, Megatron, Soundwave and Bumblebee are simple, IMO WFC Optimus Prime was SO intended to be a Voyager Class figure - I'm sure of it :eek:. He is one hell of a complicated and fiddly Deluxe Class figure, perhaps too complicated for a Deluxe Class figure which is why I reckon he was hastily scaled down before release. ;)


I can see and understand why Hasbro is taking this new cartoon in the visual direction it is, it's just smart marketing, but I'd of preferred if they went with the WFC visual style as they originally intended. :(
It is still no excuse for that abysmal attempt at a mouth though, even Abominus would overt his gaze. ;):D

[GoktimusPrime]

I think the WFC designs are more G1 inspired too. For example, a lot of them have G1 style head and body aesthetic which are more humanlike (whereas movie aesthetic looks more alien). e.g. Bumblebee, Starscream, Megatron, Sideswipe etc. have humanoid faces. The helmet and body designs on a lot of characters is very G1 (e.g. Soundwave, Bumblebee, Sideswipe, Ratchet, Optimus Prime etc. have chest/bodies which evoke G1 much moreso than movie). The colours are more G1 than movie too; e.g. Ratchet is red and white not green, Jetfire is red and white not black, Soundwave is blue not silver and so forth.


- The ultra complicated transformations - nothing classical about those, definitely movie inspired (which isn't to say that just any complex transformation makes it movie style, but that these specifically are movie style transformations)
As you said so yourself, non-classical complex transformations alone don't make them movie styled. After all, we could apply the same argument to Binaltech/Alternator or even CHUGUR too (e.g. CHUGUR Optimus Prime's transformation is nothing like original G1 Prime's and is considerably more complex).


- Bits and pieces of the robot modes whirring and clicking internally even if you're standing still (I actually really liked this touch. Even if you just stand still your character isn't static, there are little bits and pieces all over it moving)
Rippling! :D Yeah, I can see how this would be movie inspired. Does lend a nice touch of realism and it's something that you can get away with CG animation. :)


- Everyones forearms becoming weapons instead of traditional rifles and guns as seen elsewhere
Yes, I'd concede to that one too.


- Like in the movie continuity Cybertron is spiky, pointy and angular, unlike the smoother Cybertron seen in other continuities
Parts of WFC Cybertron is smoother though. It also looks more "urban" than the Cybertron we saw in the movie. Although the movie comics did show building structures on Cybertron in the movie universe, it looks more "alien" compared to the architecture seen in WFC. WFC Cybertron has various kinds of tube-tunnels and such which is reminiscent of G1.

IMHO WFC is more predominantly G1-based, although there is a noteable movie influence.