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View Full Version : KO: Gentei Skywarp/Thundercracker/Mirage + Botcon 2007 Mirage+ Ghost Starscream



gdmetro
5th November 2010, 06:33 PM
Culprits: http://www.kotoys.com/forum/index.php?topic=1113.0

We already knew about skywarp, but confirmation of thundercracker- guess it was inevitable.

Henkei Clear Mirage KO- so far its sold loose, so be wary of any loose ones being sold. Anyone who wanted, but haven't gotten it should jump on it now before KOs with replica boxes flood the market. Most online retailers have em in stock at about $80.

KO Ghost Starscream- Same as above, except sold with packaging.

KO Botcon 2007 Mirage- This is sold loose aswell. I don't know much about this figure- did the original fig have any packaging?- if not, then pretty much destroys any chance of these being sold- if the actual figure is indistinguishable.


Can't say I'm pleased about this news.

The clear exclusives don't affect me that much since I didn't care for them or the price.

I was looking to save up for authentic seekers, but I'm not going to even bother now since I can never be sure of authenticity, especially for a $150 price tag- can't take that risk.

GoktimusPrime
5th November 2010, 09:13 PM
Perhaps it'd be easier to track down a regular Classics Skywarp (t'was sold in regular stores). And I really hope Hasbro releases Generations Thundercracker.

gdmetro
5th November 2010, 10:53 PM
Perhaps it'd be easier to track down a regular Classics Skywarp (t'was sold in regular stores). And I really hope Hasbro releases Generations Thundercracker.

Yeah, the classics skywarp is not cheap too since it came in the 2pack with ultra magnus. There was a 2 pack at the parra fair months ago for $120 and I didn't get it since I thought it was a rip off- beats ebay prices though.

Im just going to wait for hasbro to release thundercracker/skywarp or eventually learn to paint and get 2 spare acidstorms or something.

____

The actual pics of the stock of KO seekers looks so freaking real. Although I don't have authentic in hand, from the pics I can't see any discernable difference.

tinyJazz
6th November 2010, 12:28 AM
:mad::mad: Argh! This is terrible!
I'm relieved I've already got the originals of these, but for anyone who hasn't, and wanted genuine tfs, this sucks!!
Does this mean we're going to see more KO henkei figures? :mad:

There's a comparison shot of the original botcon Mirage and the KO (http://www.kotoys.com/forum/index.php?topic=1110.0).
Mirage was the attendee exclusive so it was packaged in a baggy with the bio card and instructions. I guess the only way to be sure might be to buy MISB.
The KO seems to be missing the rub sign though - which you can probably buy off reprolabels. :/ The other figures look identical though.

I hope at least the print quality on the KO boxes is telling when compared to an original.

Also, gekisou, you could try checking bbts, Classics skywarp sometimes appears sold loose.

GoktimusPrime
6th November 2010, 02:05 PM
I already sold my Classics Skywarp to kristofferer... I think I sold it to him for $20 iirc. I wouldn't expect someone to pay much more than that for a loose Deluxe toy really.


:mad::mad: Argh! This is terrible!
I'm relieved I've already got the originals of these, but for anyone who hasn't, and wanted genuine tfs, this sucks!!
Ditto... but yeah, it's terrible news. I tell ya what, if Hasbro gives us Generations Thundercracker, I'm gonna buy one, even though I already have Gentei Thundercracker. I'd do it just to show my support for Hasbro. I'd probably give my Generations Thundercracker away as a prize (like I did with Generations Thrust). :) Hopefully if enough Generations Thundercrackers sell they might consider releasing Generations Skywarp.

gdmetro
6th November 2010, 09:26 PM
I already sold my Classics Skywarp to kristofferer... I think I sold it to him for $20 iirc. I wouldn't expect someone to pay much more than that for a loose Deluxe toy really.


Ditto... but yeah, it's terrible news. I tell ya what, if Hasbro gives us Generations Thundercracker, I'm gonna buy one, even though I already have Gentei Thundercracker. I'd do it just to show my support for Hasbro. I'd probably give my Generations Thundercracker away as a prize (like I did with Generations Thrust). :) Hopefully if enough Generations Thundercrackers sell they might consider releasing Generations Skywarp.

What's the quality of the gentei seekers? Ive heard stories about the fragility of the figure and the holes being too large to fit the missiles?

Classics Skywarp goes for about $40USD LOOSE from the ebay BINs Ive seen. That is exclusive of postage- which is sky high- and most listings only cater to the US. I don't want to jump through all those hoops just to still be lacking a thundercracker and a loose skywarp. I'd also prefer the gentei ones since my collection is 95% henkei- I love the henkei/gentei boxes so much. MISB/MIB henkei are just so beautiful - second only to g1/encore boxes. Sadly dropping $300+ for 2 deluxes is just too rich for me now- I'd rather use it for the upcoming united releases.

Even so, it is not realistic to get em anyway due to these KOs so unless Takara does a re-release- which is highly doubtful- I don't think I'll be getting a Skywarp/Thundercracker.

The more realistic option is to wait for skywarp/thundercracker from Hasbro. I'm sure they will release em' eventually.

I'm quite tempted just to order the KOs and join the dark side right now. someone persuade me from doing so! :rolleyes:

GoktimusPrime
6th November 2010, 10:06 PM
What's the quality of the gentei seekers? Ive heard stories about the fragility of the figure and the holes being too large to fit the missiles?
Yeah, the missile launchers fit loosely on the arms and the wings aren't as stiff (thus more susceptible to flopping down). But IMO the Gentei looks nicer but Classics Skywarp is by no means bad either). I took comparison pics of my Classics and Gentei Skywarp before I sold my Classics Skywarp...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/skywarp_comparison.jpg


Classics Skywarp goes for about $40USD LOOSE from the ebay BINs Ive seen. That is exclusive of postage- which is sky high- and most listings only cater to the US.
<nearly falls off chair> :eek: (o_O) :eek: have sex and go away!!


The more realistic option is to wait for skywarp/thundercracker from Hasbro. I'm sure they will release em' eventually.

If I were you I'd just wait and see if Hasbro releases Thundercracker and Skywarp for Generations (or even if TOMY will release United versions of them). After Generations and United winds up and if they haven't released them, then I'd bite the bullet and pay those stupid prices for them online.


I'm quite tempted just to order the KOs and join the dark side right now. someone persuade me from doing so! :rolleyes:
A couple months ago I was really tempted to get the KO Headmaster heads cos I wanted Spike and I my Zarak broken an missing an arm. In the end I decided against it and bought myself a real Spike - and I'm really glad I did. Cos if I'd gotten the KO it'd continually bug me every time I look at him that he's NOT real - nothing more than just a counterfeit. I remember at the time I was thinking about getting the KOs, when I spoke to other people who already owned the KO Headmaster set, they were _really_ surprised that I was even contemplating buying a KO. And it was those conversations that made me realise that if I'd caved in and bought those KOs, I would have sacrificed my integrity as a collector (given my strong views against unlicensed toys). Ironically it was other collectors of unlicensed toys that persuaded me against following them and starting the road down the "dark side"! Look, it's really up to you and your personal standards. But I'd personally pay more money for a legit toy rather than lower my standards and buy a cheap KO. "Quality over quantity" if you get my deadloc--, uh, drift. ;)

jaydisc
7th November 2010, 07:34 AM
What's the quality of the gentei seekers? Ive heard stories about the fragility of the figure and the holes being too large to fit the missiles?

Thundercracker is definitely flawed in that his shoulder holes are too big. There are workarounds, but it's basically a defect. Skywarp is a little bit better and the others are perfect. Reports of fragility are false.

I stand by the belief that Hasbro will never release a G1-painted Thundercracker, so unless gaudy G2 is going to satiate you, you need to find another option, and probably quickly if you're price sensitive.

gdmetro
9th November 2010, 07:33 PM
A poster named Sizzle at TFW boards posted a review with pics of Thundercracker in comparison to the official Henkei version:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-feedback/336764-ko-henkei-thundercracker-pictures-how-tell-difference.html#post5366906

Summary of differences:
-Very hard to tell its a KO while MISB. The only way is to judge from the alignment of the decepticon symbol on the wings, which differ from the official one.
-In robot mode, the knees and shoulders on the official one have a slight notch compared to the KO which has none.
-Another difference is that the missiles actually fit - although one side is slightly loose.

Having said that, I am weak and ordered a set of the seekers. :o

kup
11th November 2010, 10:55 AM
Overall it seems that the KO is of superior quality than the legit item.

GoktimusPrime
11th November 2010, 08:33 PM
All things considered, I recommend this KO to people who don't have Thundercracker and can't afford him. And I hope this review helps those of you who want to know the difference.
Bugger that... I'd rather NOT have the toy than accept a knock off.


Overall it seems that the KO is of superior quality than the legit item.
Doesn't change the fact that it's a fake. I'd rather have a not-so-well made legit toy than a 'superior' counterfeit.

Oh well, that review does point out quite well the differences between the KO and legit figures and help consumers make an informed purchase decision. :)

Hursticon
11th November 2010, 09:12 PM
Bugger that... I'd rather NOT have the toy than accept a knock off.

Doesn't change the fact that it's a fake. I'd rather have a not-so-well made legit toy than a 'superior' counterfeit.

Oh well, that review does point out quite well the differences between the KO and legit figures and help consumers make an informed purchase decision. :)

I agree with Goki here, I too would rather not own the toy than knowingly purchase a knock off - to me it's just as bad as theft, maybe over cooking it a little but that's how I feel. :o
Now, that being said I appreciate the review as it's a really good resource to have - knowing what to look out for is always a hand and I'd actually like to see more reviews of KO figures. ;)

kaiden
11th November 2010, 09:31 PM
at the im trying to get a ultra magnus vs skywarp pack and waiting on hasbro to release a generations thundercracker.

thankfully i managed to get generations thrust and dirge for $20 each.

strafe i paid $70 for which probably at most i would want to pay for these exclusives but i really dont see myself buying wildrider at those insane prices on ebay - which is also the reason why i havent been able to buy the gentei seekers because once again, scalpers want $100+ for each of them and then there's american sellers who don't want to ship to australia so really trying to buy exclusive Transformers off the secondary market is really heartbreaking sometimes.

it would have been nice if they weren't exclusive and just released normally.

so personally, if hasbro hadn't release the generations toys, i'd have bought these KO's and if people cant afford those stupid ebay prices they should go for it if they want to

if you buy these, you shouldn't feel like they're fake everytime you see them - its just a toy in the end.

Hursticon
11th November 2010, 09:45 PM
if you buy these, you shouldn't feel like they're fake everytime you see them - its just a toy in the end.

I totally agree with you Kaiden, if people want to buy the KOs then they should - don't let other's opinions influence your own.

For me though, if I was to buy a KO, I know myself that I could never look at it without thinking "It's Fake" - that's just me and I'm the same with regards to Reissues.
I also agree though that financially some may only have the option of KOs or Reissues, hence why I've got a couple reissues myself, the rarity of a particular figure is also a factor but anyway. :rolleyes:

So if any one does decide to purchase a KO figure of any type - Please consider reviewing it and post pics or post a link to a review if you know of one.
Even those who'll never knowingly choose to buy a KO will appreciate it as we'll know what to look out for. ;):D

kup
11th November 2010, 10:40 PM
Bugger that... I'd rather NOT have the toy than accept a knock off.


Doesn't change the fact that it's a fake. I'd rather have a not-so-well made legit toy than a 'superior' counterfeit.

Oh well, that review does point out quite well the differences between the KO and legit figures and help consumers make an informed purchase decision. :)

I am just pointing out that it's a sad day when the KO is superior to the real deal. :eek:

I would actually feel a bit annoyed as a customer who has spend so much money and time on Takara-Tomy products to see a 'cheap rip-off' being better than their own limited release exclusive product.

jazzcomp
12th November 2010, 01:14 AM
the problem i have with KO is they're getting pricey as well. It's a fake. It should be at least half the price of the orig release (not the raised prices).

Look at the chinese counterfeit shoes, it's like $30-40 versus $100 or more. If a KO is priced high as well just because their originals are at an insanely high value now on ebay, I wouldn't buy it.

5FDP
12th November 2010, 08:08 AM
So if any one does decide to purchase a KO figure of any type - Please consider reviewing it and post pics or post a link to a review if you know of one.
Even those who'll never knowingly choose to buy a KO will appreciate it as we'll know what to look out for. ;):D

The best online resource is http://www.highendtfs.com. This also has links to reviews for most KO's.

There are a few active members that dabble in the 'black art' of KO collection (I have a couple myself) who would be able to answer most questions not covered by highendtfs. The Transformer Variants (http://www.oocities.com/futuristgroup/vquanda.html) site is also useful to some degree when trying to ID a KO.

EDIT: Just noticed that TFW has revamped their site to include a KO and Third Party (http://www.tfw2005.com/resources/3rd-party-and-knock-off-transformers-429/page5.html) section.

Hursticon
12th November 2010, 10:44 AM
The best online resource is http://www.highendtfs.com. This also has links to reviews for most KO's.

There are a few active members that dabble in the 'black art' of KO collection (I have a couple myself) who would be able to answer most questions not covered by highendtfs. The Transformer Variants (http://www.oocities.com/futuristgroup/vquanda.html) site is also useful to some degree when trying to ID a KO.

EDIT: Just noticed that TFW has revamped their site to include a KO and Third Party (http://www.tfw2005.com/resources/3rd-party-and-knock-off-transformers-429/page5.html) section.

Cheers 5FDP for the links mate, very helpful indeed.
It's a pity that OTCA doesn't have a front end site like TFW2005 - I can understand why though as it would be quite costly and would require constant and heavy maintenance. :(
I like their new look, much more efficient loading too, I'll have to give their KO section a good perusing. :D

GoktimusPrime
13th November 2010, 07:33 PM
it would have been nice if they weren't exclusive and just released normally.
+1 QFT!!

Hasbro... Takara... for failing to release all the Classicsverse Seekers as regular store figures, see me in my office after school.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/jasper2.jpg


so personally, if hasbro hadn't release the generations toys, i'd have bought these KO's and if people cant afford those stupid ebay prices they should go for it if they want to

if you buy these, you shouldn't feel like they're fake everytime you see them - its just a toy in the end.

I totally agree with you Kaiden, if people want to buy the KOs then they should - don't let other's opinions influence your own.

For me though, if I was to buy a KO, I know myself that I could never look at it without thinking "It's Fake" - that's just me and I'm the same with regards to Reissues.
I also agree though that financially some may only have the option of KOs or Reissues, hence why I've got a couple reissues myself, the rarity of a particular figure is also a factor but anyway. :rolleyes:

So if any one does decide to purchase a KO figure of any type - Please consider reviewing it and post pics or post a link to a review if you know of one.
Even those who'll never knowingly choose to buy a KO will appreciate it as we'll know what to look out for. ;):D
Just because it's "only" a toy, doesn't make the counterfeit any less illegitimate. A high quality fake is still a fake.

I wouldn't go so far to say that people "should" buy KOs if they want to (because it is still a form of theft of intellectual property). People can buy KOs if they want to, but I personally wouldn't go so far as to say that they should (because saying "should" implies that you're endorsing/recommending it - whereas "can" sounds more neutral).


the problem i have with KO is they're getting pricey as well. It's a fake. It should be at least half the price of the orig release (not the raised prices).

Look at the chinese counterfeit shoes, it's like $30-40 versus $100 or more. If a KO is priced high as well just because their originals are at an insanely high value now on ebay, I wouldn't buy it.
As much as I may not agree with it, I can understand why people would want to buy a KO where it's a lot cheaper than the original. But paying for a KO that's more expensive than the original? (and I've heard that there are quite a few TF KOs that are dearer than the original) -- that's kuh-razy!

1AZRAEL1
14th November 2010, 09:38 AM
I have no real interest in the exclusive figures like Ghost Starscream and Botcon Mirage, so they are an easy pass for me. As for TC, I bought a Gentei version a little while back. Set me back $110, but it was worth it to have the final Classic seeker. I'd previously bought Thrust and Dirge for $150 for the pair. I can see the draw to buy KO's, but just like with Hursty, I will always look at it and know it's a fake. I'd rather have a legit figure.

And the whole "this TC is of better quality than the official release" is just crap to me. Yea mine had a problem with guns falling out of his arms, but that was an easy fix. Shouldn't have to do that, but I am willing to with an official figure.

KaRNiV8L PRiME
14th November 2010, 06:37 PM
2949

Just received my KO Thundercracker from KOTOYS.

+ Cosmetically he looks fantastic
+ Paint apps are great
+ Will sit nicely with his mates Starscream, Ghost, Skywarp, Ramjet, Dirge, Thrust and Acid Storm
+ Both missiles fit correctly in launchers unlike video review

- Left wing is loose and does not sit up against his back well
- Neither of his guns stay on his arms but are both tight on wings and in hand
- Back panel does not sit "flush" in robot mode
- Left hand/wrist is limp
- Both feet fold down too far and can cause figure to fall backwards
- He is not the real thing

Final Opinion: Look, I'm not a fan of KO's (at all) however my urge to complete my seeker collection forced my hand. Thundercracker IMO is a good alternative to any collection that is missing that elusive last seeker however I was left a little disappointed. It seems (not surprisingly) that there are some QC issues with these as there are differing defects between mine and the video review. Hard to say I would recommend this KO to anyone when there is an actual REAL figure available. If a Sunstorm or Retooled Female slipstream were KO'd i'd probably buy them however I still hold hope that Hasbro will release a classics version of Thundercracker in the RTS line

kaiden
15th November 2010, 07:21 AM
Review and Identification Guide for Knock Off BotCon Mirage

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/review-and-identification-guide-for-knock-off-botcon-mirage/20199/

1AZRAEL1
15th November 2010, 08:08 AM
Just received my KO Thundercracker from KOTOYS.
*snip* Review

By the judge of things, he is worse than my real figure. So much for it being better than the actual release.

Also, if you want to fix the problem of the launchers not fitting in the arms properly, you could use nail polish or super glue to increase the size of the peg a bit. But if it fits snuggly into the hands and wings already, it may be better to put the nail polish or super glue into the shoulder hole instead, if you like to play with the figure.

KaRNiV8L PRiME
16th November 2010, 09:20 AM
Just found these.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290500848360 seller says these are remakes

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290494866203&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com.au%3A80%2F%3F_from%3 DR40%26_npmv%3D3%26_trksid%3Dm570%26_nkw%3D2904948 66203%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1 same seller says these are real.

Very difficult to tell

1AZRAEL1
16th November 2010, 09:28 AM
He says this in the description


Great remake set! Limited! Can't tell the difference!

But sadly, if one were to not say it, and sell it as legit, I can't see a way of knowing.

I'd be very careful in buying them on ebay.

gdmetro
16th November 2010, 10:02 AM
This is crazy- they actually made instructions/bio cards for botcon mirage

http://www.kotoys.com/kotoys.php?id=1386&cat=Henkei&name=BIO+CARD+for+07+blue+mirage

AZRAEL:

I seriously would not risk getting any of these off Ebay misb - chances are they are kos. The only way would be the seller having take very nice HQ close up pics of the fig in packaging for one to verify authenticity.
Other than that, a loose/mib where the fig is out of package would be easier to tell from close ups, although to untrained collector one could still very easily be fooled.

____

So if i bought a fig off Ebay under assumption it was genuine, and it turned out to be a KO, what would Ebay do? What would be the remedy? Does it make a difference if the seller said "reissue" in the description?
What evidence would I have to show Ebay that it is indeed a ko in such a situation?

1AZRAEL1
16th November 2010, 10:33 AM
I seriously would not risk getting any of these off Ebay misb - chances are they are kos. The only way would be the seller having take very nice HQ close up pics of the fig in packaging for one to verify authenticity.
Other than that, a loose/mib where the fig is out of package would be easier to tell from close ups, although to untrained collector one could still very easily be fooled.

Which is why I am glad I bought my Henkei TC a long while ago. Now it is just too hard to tell on a MISB.


So if i bought a fig off Ebay under assumption it was genuine, and it turned out to be a KO, what would Ebay do? What would be the remedy? Does it make a difference if the seller said "reissue" in the description?
What evidence would I have to show Ebay that it is indeed a ko in such a situation?

Ebay would probably do squat, unless you could provide pictures, and even then you have to jump through hoops to prove that you are correct to get a refund. If the listing says reissue, then most likely the seller will get away with it. IMO Ebay are useless when it comes to stopping people from selling KO's.

GoktimusPrime
16th November 2010, 11:18 AM
As I understand it, it's a violation of eBay's Terms of Service policy for anyone to sell counterfeit items. If so, then these sellers ought to be reported to eBay staff.


Ebay would probably do squat, unless you could provide pictures, and even then you have to jump through hoops to prove that you are correct to get a refund. If the listing says reissue, then most likely the seller will get away with it. IMO Ebay are useless when it comes to stopping people from selling KO's
You could provide links to comparative reviews with comparative photos etc. eBay would do more if HasTak bothered to get off their butts and actually press them to do something about these pirates.

But anyway, whether eBay staff do something or not, at least as users you would have done the right thing by reporting it. Beyond that there's nothing you can do. It's like say seeing a crime and reporting it to police - the cops may or may not be able to catch the criminals, but that doesn't mean one shouldn't report the crime. If nothing else if other users are persistently reporting the same seller for allegedly selling KOs then it puts that seller on eBay staff's radar.

jaydisc
16th November 2010, 11:19 AM
There have been members here who have gone through the process of disputing a KO. It involved getting a "professional" assessment I think. Hopefully, whoever that was can chime in.

kaiden
16th November 2010, 06:03 PM
So if i bought a fig off Ebay under assumption it was genuine, and it turned out to be a KO, what would Ebay do? What would be the remedy? Does it make a difference if the seller said "reissue" in the description?
What evidence would I have to show Ebay that it is indeed a ko in such a situation?

Ebay and paypal do shit all.

I bought a pair of DSLites from china/hongkong (i cant remember which) and they were described as brand new. So when I received them, I noticed some of the screws weren't in place properly so googled it and found that counterfeits were being sold online. Further googling, I figured out they were refurbished units and not new as they were telling me.

So I reported this to ebay and paypal and then had to send them back. The seller agreed to pay for the return shipping upon receiving them back (which they ended up reneging on - and paypal said they could not force them to do anything other than refund the original amount.)

In the end, Ebay would not update me on what happened with the seller citing privacy and such crap.

As for evidence, you would just link them to the website that has those comparison pics.

So if you buy them know, that evilbay will do nothing in your favour if it turns out to be a counterfeit. You'll have to foot the return shipping like i did.

Basically I don't recommend it.

GoktimusPrime
17th November 2010, 08:46 AM
leave scathing negative feedback for the seller? Ultimately it's cavaet emptor I suppose. :/

kup
18th November 2010, 09:30 PM
.

And the whole "this TC is of better quality than the official release" is just crap to me. Yea mine had a problem with guns falling out of his arms, but that was an easy fix. Shouldn't have to do that, but I am willing to with an official figure.

Although this by no means justifies getting a KO, it does annoy me greatly that the KOers are better at QC than the legitimate piece in which we have paid Takara-Tomy good money for.

I think that as a loyal customer who buys legit products from Takara-Tomy despite hefty prices and avoids Knock offs , that I have every right to be peed off at this.

Forking out $80-$120 for defective figures from the 'Big Name' manufacturer and then have a greedy a$$ KOer come around later and do it much better at a cheaper price from some hole and I am supposed to just be happy with my defective purchase just because it's legit? :confused: I was under the impression that the real deal, specially an exclusive was supposed to be better than the 'cheap a$$' KO :rolleyes:

Anyway rant over.

1AZRAEL1
19th November 2010, 08:15 AM
Although this by no means justifies getting a KO, it does annoy me greatly that the KOers are better at QC than the legitimate piece in which we have paid Takara-Tomy good money for.

True in some cases, but even Karnival Primes KO was worse than mine. It is probably not true across the whole board, but he got a bad one.


Forking out $80-$120 for defective figures from the 'Big Name' manufacturer and then have a greedy a$$ KOer come around later and do it much better at a cheaper price from some hole and I am supposed to just be happy with my defective purchase just because it's legit? :confused: I was under the impression that the real deal, specially an exclusive was supposed to be better than the 'cheap a$$' KO :rolleyes

Is that how much they were charging when he came out? I don't know, I had to buy mine after market, which cost me a bit.

That being said, I still prefer to buy a legit figure, even if the KO is cheaper and of better quality than the legit. I just don't like buying KOs.

kup
19th November 2010, 09:16 AM
True in some cases, but even Karnival Primes KO was worse than mine. It is probably not true across the whole board, but he got a bad one.



Is that how much they were charging when he came out? I don't know, I had to buy mine after market, which cost me a bit.

That being said, I still prefer to buy a legit figure, even if the KO is cheaper and of better quality than the legit. I just don't like buying KOs.

If I had know this scenario was going to play out, I wouldn't have gotten neither. It kind of feels dirty to have bought the real thing now after this.

1AZRAEL1
19th November 2010, 09:25 AM
But you just never know how it plays out until it's too late.

Anyhow, my only QC problem is with the peg not fitting. Fixed how I normally fixs things that are too loose. Minor problem for me to have the set of seekers.

jaydisc
19th November 2010, 09:42 AM
Forking out $80-$120 for defective figure

I don't think it's fair that you judge the Big Name manufacturer based on your aftermarket price. The figure was intended for domestic only release in Japan and if my memory serves, was priced at approximately US$30-35.

kup
19th November 2010, 10:27 AM
I don't think it's fair that you judge the Big Name manufacturer based on your aftermarket price. The figure was intended for domestic only release in Japan and if my memory serves, was priced at approximately US$30-35.

Doesn't change the fact that they got it wrong while the KOers got it right.

gamblor916
19th November 2010, 10:39 AM
Not necessarily. All this is based on someone else's opinion, and I'd rather have them side by side to judge.

jaydisc
21st November 2010, 09:48 PM
Doesn't change the fact that they got it wrong while the KOers got it right.

I'm not commenting on that (I don't have the KO), but since the item's price was part of the complaint, I just think the actual price of the item should be known.

And unless I've misunderstood, Karnival Prime seems to suggest the KO didn't get it right (bolding mine):


Just received my KO Thundercracker from KOTOYS.

+ Cosmetically he looks fantastic
+ Paint apps are great
+ Will sit nicely with his mates Starscream, Ghost, Skywarp, Ramjet, Dirge, Thrust and Acid Storm
+ Both missiles fit correctly in launchers unlike video review

- Left wing is loose and does not sit up against his back well
- Neither of his guns stay on his arms but are both tight on wings and in hand
- Back panel does not sit "flush" in robot mode
- Left hand/wrist is limp
- Both feet fold down too far and can cause figure to fall backwards
- He is not the real thing

Actually, it seems the KOers got a lot wrong.

griffin
30th November 2010, 01:22 PM
Looks like all the versions of the Classics Mirage are getting KO-ed now that they have created the mould to do it in any colour - Walmart Fracture (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-toys--products-30/decepticon-fracture-knockoff---buyer-beware-171008/)is the latest appearing.

kaiden
30th November 2010, 01:47 PM
also the normal henkei starscream

SkyWarp91
30th November 2010, 03:21 PM
also the normal henkei starscream

I assume Universe SS is the best bet to buy now to avoid KOs?


Looks like all the versions of the Classics Mirage are getting KO-ed now that they have created the mould to do it in any colour - Walmart Fracture (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-toys--products-30/decepticon-fracture-knockoff---buyer-beware-171008/)is the latest appearing.

That article said that the packaging was right on the spot; but there were no photos. Does anyone have any photographic links to confirm that the KO packaging matches the real thing?

kaiden
10th December 2010, 11:27 AM
I assume Universe SS is the best bet to buy now to avoid KOs?

i guess so. but its easiest to just avoid ebay and buy from a trusted source like RK, TFS, BBTS

and now KO Sunstorm

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/ko-classics-henkei-sunstorm-released/20359/

snaketales
12th December 2010, 02:58 PM
Having just opened my KO Henkei Thundercracker, here's my observations.

The back of the pack is a colour montage of Starscream transforming, with little profile pics at the bottom of other Henkei figures available. The picture looks a little bit off, like a first generation copy.
The plastic of the shell feels a bit more brittle/thin than legit shells.
This is weird, but it smelt different. Not bad, but different than the usual 'just opened' plastic smell.
The stats on the back don't match the stats on the card inside. I would presume the stats on the back are Starscream's but don't have a Henkei pack to compare.
The instructions inside are for Universe Acid Storm.
His left cannon sits loose in his left shoulder. It will stay in position when standing, but move it at any angle and it will fall out. No problems with the wing holders though.
His knee pads do not have a notch like legit models. His shoulders do have a notch but they are about 3/4 of the way down, compared to about 1/2 down on legit models.
In jet mode his top can't go flush with his belly. Sticks out 1-2mm
In robot mode his back can't go flush with his chest (same gap again). It looks like the rod that the cockpit folds in on is too wide for the cavity under the cockpit (hope that makes sense). This means that his nose cone is at about a 80-85 degree angle instead of 90 when in robot mode.
His right wing wont go flush with his back either. It sticks out about 1-2 degrees.

Overall there's several niggly little defects with this, but I wouldn't think it'd be anything for a casual collector to worry about.

I just picked him up to check and the left missile launcher promptly fell out.

Here's a pic comparing the KO (on the left) to my custom Thundercracker.

3072

3073

KaRNiV8L PRiME
12th December 2010, 03:09 PM
and now KO Sunstorm

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/ko-classics-henkei-sunstorm-released/20359/

I have ordered. Will have review up when he arrives

Vector Prime
12th December 2010, 03:21 PM
I have ordered. Will have review up when he arrives

Wow...I'm almost tempted to get a Sunstorm - but at (USD) $28 + $10 shipping puts me off the whole thing - would rather buy a used genuine Screamer and get it custom painted for not much more money (at least that way I know it's the real deal)

VERT
12th December 2010, 03:56 PM
You cant get a real deal Sunstorm anyway. If its as nice as Thundercracker is he will be mine after all this X Mas horror is over :D

jaydisc
12th December 2010, 07:39 PM
His left cannon sits loose in his left shoulder. It will stay in position when standing, but move it at any angle and it will fall out. No problems with the wing holders though.

In robot mode his back can't go flush with his chest (same gap again).

1. When you say left, do you mean his left? Or our left while facing him?

2. With that gap, I have that problem on one of my Henkei Starscreams. It's the only seeker I have that exhibits it.

snaketales
13th December 2010, 09:55 AM
1. When you say left, do you mean his left? Or our left while facing him?

2. With that gap, I have that problem on one of my Henkei Starscreams. It's the only seeker I have that exhibits it.

1. His left. A couple of coats of nail polish on the missile connector appear to have resolved this.

2. my custom Thundercracker has the same problem, but I always figured it was because of the coats of paint.

Also, I got the pliers out and squeezed KO Tcracker's cockpit rod, so now his chest is a bit more flush.

It's better than a KO seeker I got earlier this year for a custom project. It arrived with two right hands :confused: and bad mold degradation on the face.

kaiden
13th December 2010, 08:42 PM
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/buyer-beware-update-on-ko-henkei-seekers/20380/

they've improved the old mold x_x

jaydisc
13th December 2010, 09:34 PM
That's pretty crazy. Also, of great interest is that the packaging has the KO manufacturer's name on it. To me, that demonstrates an intention on behalf of the manufacturer to not have their goods be sold deceptively as originals.

Tallestblue
14th December 2010, 01:00 AM
Was there ever a Gentei Sunstorm? I don't think there was....

jaydisc
14th December 2010, 09:54 AM
Nope, but all of the updated version of these KOs (including ones that were released as Henkei/Gentai) now sport this new logo.

KaRNiV8L PRiME
14th December 2010, 08:56 PM
I was very suspicious of this new KO update

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/buyer-beware-update-on-ko-henkei-seekers/20380/

when I found this on ebay

http://i.ebayimg.com/01/!B971mNwBmk~$(KGrHqV,!lMEy+jC5UHtBM7Nvve5sQ~~0_12. JPG

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140486195300&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Note the notch on his knee cap, I thought this was the real deal. The seller states "Hasbro Original" however I have sent 2 emails to the seller to confirm this and they have not yet replied. For only $29 delivered I was very suspicious

Vector Prime
14th December 2010, 09:24 PM
The same seller also has Henkei Ghost Starscream (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/G1-GHOST-CRYSTAL-STARSCREAM-HASBRO-TRANSFORMERS-/140486195128?pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionF igures_JN&hash=item20b5a137b8#ht_1983wt_1276) for a couple of bucks more - they're definitely KO's!

The funny thing is that he has Acid Storm (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HASBRO-TRANSFORMERS-ROTF-2010-DELUXE-ACID-STORM-/140487500165?pt=UK_ToysGames_ActionFigures_ActionF igures_JN&hash=item20b5b52185#ht_973wt_1276) and Universe Starscream (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Transformers-Universe-Deluxe-25th-STARSCREAM-/140471013838?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b4b991ce#ht_711wt_1220) listed too... but they're dearer than the Henkei's :p

1AZRAEL1
15th December 2010, 08:25 AM
Damn. That's really hard to tell the difference, doesn't look like there is a difference. Sad day indeed. I'm just glad I got mine before they started making these. Yea I paid a fair amount for it, but I know it's legit.

KaRNiV8L PRiME
21st December 2010, 04:31 PM
Came in mail yesterday

3090

3091

Key Points
+ Much tighter joints than the thundercracker
+ Feel it's a better quality of plastic
+ Has indent in knee like official Seekers
+ Missiles fit both great in upper arms, very tight in wings
+ It's Sunstorm
+ Feels more solid than other KOs
+ Seeker army is complete????
- Yellow paint apps ontop of silver paint apps are little messy but not really noticable
- Missiles/Guns don't fit in hands

Will take more pics if requested when I get home tonight


Overall a great figure!!!

snaketales
22nd December 2010, 10:21 PM
Came in mail yesterday

3090

3091

Key Points
+ Much tighter joints than the thundercracker
+ Feel it's a better quality of plastic
+ Has indent in knee like official Seekers
+ Missiles fit both great in upper arms, very tight in wings
+ It's Sunstorm
+ Feels more solid than other KOs
+ Seeker army is complete????
- Yellow paint apps ontop of silver paint apps are little messy but not really noticable
- Missiles/Guns don't fit in hands

Will take more pics if requested when I get home tonight


Overall a great figure!!!

Mine arrived today and I echo these comments. Except that my Sunstorm's right missile launcher was a tad tight for the wing and shoulder joints.
I would have preferred a brighter yellow than the mustardy colour it has, but it is still acceptable.
All the little faults the KO Thundercracker mold had are gone.
At least now with the packaging you can tell it's a KO. On the top right corner of the pack it has "CHMS" and the blister has "CHMS" embossed on it instead of "Transformers".

Vector Prime
22nd December 2010, 10:28 PM
I would have preferred a brighter yellow than the mustardy colour it has

So he's more of a yellowy mustard instead of an orange colour? :confused:

Hmm, not sure that he's meant to represent Sunstorm (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sunstorm_(G1)) then, maybe he's the one of the three 'Rainmakers (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/a/a4/DivideandCon.gif)' in the G1 episode "Divide and conquer (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Divide_and_Conquer)"

gdmetro
22nd December 2010, 11:55 PM
Was thinking of getting sunstorm.. but the yellow is too bright compared to what I consider should be more orangey?

Might pick this guy up if they have other stuff I want eventually.

KaRNiV8L PRiME
23rd December 2010, 09:49 AM
Here is a comp of the diff yellows

3092

His colours are probably closest to WFC bee

griffin
23rd December 2010, 02:14 PM
I can understand if Hasbro doesn't bother about shutting down KOs of figures that are no longer in release, but this is a mould still in use, and since they haven't acted against it, it just encourages more KOs and deceptive ebay listings of other current (and rare) figures for us fans to be weary of.

kaiden
23rd December 2010, 02:23 PM
I can understand if Hasbro doesn't bother about shutting down KOs of figures that are no longer in release, but this is a mould still in use, and since they haven't acted against it, it just encourages more KOs and deceptive ebay listings of other current (and rare) figures for us fans to be weary of.

probably because china is immune to the rest of the world.

King Atlas
9th August 2011, 08:44 PM
Ok thread resurrection.

Add Henkei Mirage/ligier to this list.

Against my better judgment and after others told me not to buy it, I did.

I heard no news that it was K.O.ed yet, and I asked another person who bought this if it was real.
They said yes. I'm guessing they have no experience with this mold or were more likely, decieved(it looks like a perfect clone from afar).

Ok, so I knew about the two exclusives and fracture being K.O.ed (add that to the list too).
And the price was too good to be true. And it was loose. And the seller has tons of KO's. And he used photos from Siebertron. Lesson learnt :) (refund ahoy)

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/344841-warning-ko-tftm-fracture-loose.html

It cannot hold the weapon and the ball joints pop off very easily.
The plastic quality feels inferior when compared to my original mirage and fracture, almost like....a Knock-off!!! :p

I may add a photo later....

gdmetro
9th August 2011, 08:52 PM
Ok thread resurrection.

Add Henkei Mirage/ligier to this list.

Against my better judgment and after others told me not to buy it, I did.

I heard no news that it was K.O.ed yet, and I asked another person who bought this if it was real.
They said yes. I'm guessing they have no experience with this mold or were more likely, decieved(it looks like a perfect clone from afar).

Ok, so I knew about the two exclusives and fracture being K.O.ed (add that to the list too).
And the price was too good to be true. And it was loose. And the seller has tons of KO's. And he used photos from Siebertron. Lesson learnt :) (refund ahoy)

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/344841-warning-ko-tftm-fracture-loose.html

It cannot hold the weapon and the ball joints pop off very easily.
The plastic quality feels inferior when compared to my original mirage and fracture, almost like....a Knock-off!!! :p

I may add a photo later....

Did you buy it misb?

Can you go into more detail + pics?

If what you say is true, would be quite alarming :(

King Atlas
9th August 2011, 09:18 PM
Loose. Check out the link. Mine has all the symptons/changes. Ok. I will take some pics.

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-news-rumors/344841-warning-ko-tftm-fracture-loose.html

King Atlas
19th August 2011, 01:17 PM
Kept forgetting to upload these. Not the best pics ever, but all I could do at the time. Some are cropped. Can't take anymore since its back with the seller.

Larger ball joints for the toes/spoiler is the most obvious giveaway.

And yeah, it might look good but as I mentioned, the plastic quality is craptaculerŽ

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4262.jpghttp://
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4260.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4263.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4264.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4263.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4265.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4274.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4268.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4268.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4270.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4273.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4271.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4278.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4279.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4280.jpg
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq164/octane123456/SAM_4275.jpg