New PCC - Stunticons, Undertow and Salvage

[kaiden]

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/new-powercore-combiners-stunticons-undertow-and-salvage-revealed-at-bbts/20172/

[SkyWarp91]

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/new-powercore-combiners-stunticons-undertow-and-salvage-revealed-at-bbts/20172/

Whoa Undertow looks SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sharky]

I can see undertow getting a repaint.. Maybe the rotorforce manta ray colour scheme

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Undertow=bought.

[1AZRAEL1]

I can see undertow getting a repaint.. Maybe the rotorforce manta ray colour scheme

I reckon so as well. Looks pretty good though. Even one that I might actually pick up.

[i_amtrunks]

Leadfoot repaint looks good, but Undertow is my pick of the three, it's a different (2 hull?) boat, and who can't say that's something nice and different?

[LordCyrusOmega]

Leadfoot repaint for the Stunticons? Wouldn't Huffer have been better suited for this?

I want all of them anyway

[Golden Phoenix]

Leadfoot repaint for the Stunticons? Wouldn't Huffer have been better suited for this?

I want all of them anyway

They already did the Huffer repaint in wave 3 of the 5-packs

[fatbot]

I saw this at tfsource, the stunticons name is "spastic"

[Sky Shadow]

I saw this at tfsource, the stunticons name is "spastic"

Spastic? What drugs are they taking at Hasbro?

[LordCyrusOmega]

They already did the Huffer repaint in wave 3 of the 5-packs

There's a wave 3?? I haven't even seen wave 2 yet.

[GoktimusPrime]

I saw this at tfsource, the stunticons name is "spastic"
Spastic? What drugs are they taking at Hasbro?
Also on Seibertron: http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/official-inpackage-images-of-pcc-spastic-w-stunticons-salvage-w-bombburst-undertow-w-waterlog/20179/
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/ngsmoov_facepalmconvoy.jpg

[Golden Phoenix]

There's a wave 3?? I haven't even seen wave 2 yet.

Wave 2 of the 5-packs have been out for a while. Seen them at the majors, still see them every now and then.

I don't think Wave 3 is out yet, but they are repaints for Huffer and Smoulder with the drones mixed up and repainted.

Wave 4 is the Dinobots and Contructicons.

The Stunticons must be Wave 5

[kup]

Also on Seibertron: http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/official-inpackage-images-of-pcc-spastic-w-stunticons-salvage-w-bombburst-undertow-w-waterlog/20179/
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/ngsmoov_facepalmconvoy.jpg

Maybe someone at Hasbro doesn't like PCCs or it's Archer on the rampage once again.

[SharkyMcShark]

Spastic? hahahaha!

[kup]

At least the name fits the toy :p

[Tallestblue]

Yeah. I can see armies of Parental Groups being Reeeeeal happy with that.

[Gutsman Heavy]

Spastic!? It's like Slapper all over again...

[Hursticon]

Considering what happened to Jeremy Clarkson when he described James May's Ferrari as having 'Special Needs' :p:D, HASBRO is going to cop a flogging... wait, you can't do that either now!?!...

Hasbro will be fine, the most they'll get is stern talking to and 5 minutes in the naughty corner. :rolleyes:

[griffin]

It might not be offensive in America, but it is still derogatory, so I'm surprised they would name a toy or character in that way. At best it should be a description of a character, not a name.
The three 2-packs have nice vehicle modes.

[1AZRAEL1]

Yeah. I can see armies of Parental Groups being Reeeeeal happy with that.


Considering what happened to Jeremy Clarkson when he described James May's Ferrari as having 'Special Needs' :p:D, HASBRO is going to cop a flogging... wait, you can't do that either now!?!...

Here we go, the parents will complain at some stage, whether it be by the parents in the US, UK, or here.

Hence why the Spastic Centre were trying to change their name. 65 years ago when they started, it wasn't a derogatory thing. Now it is. Now they are known as Cerebral Palsy: The Spastic Centre.

Aside from that, I think is it is a dumb name to call him anyway. Not a bad looking figure though.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Bwahahaha! They even TM'ed it, classic!:D

[kup]

It might not be offensive in America, but it is still derogatory, so I'm surprised they would name a toy or character in that way. At best it should be a description of a character, not a name.

I am not surprised. It's not like if it's the first time something like this has happened.

[Sky Shadow]

I am not surprised. It's not like if it's the first time something like this has happened.

Yeah, Hasbro is full of spastic dropkicks, slags and slappers. ;)

[1AZRAEL1]

I was having a look at PCC Undertow with Waterlog, and Waterlog seems to have googley eyes heh.

[Hursticon]

Yeah, Hasbro is full of spastic dropkicks, slags and slappers. ;)

Though in fairness, they do occasionly cause fan-induced Erectors! :p:D

[FFN]

Makes their politically-correct removal of Slag as a modern character name silly.


That said, if "Spastic and the Stunticons" are somehow released here or even exist with that name, I will try to get it for the novelty.

[Bartrim]

That said, if "Spastic and the Stunticons" are somehow released here or even exist with that name, I will try to get it for the novelty.

Same. I have stopped collecting for a couple of years for financial reasons but if they make their way out here I'll have to get them for the novelty

[Sky Shadow]

The thing is, I cannot see how anyone at Hasbro could use that word to name a toy without knowing its meaning. There's no form of that word that doesn't either refer to the medical condition, or directly derive from the medical condition as an insult. What were they even going for, and how was there no-one in the entire creative process who went, "Hold on... Spastic? WTF?"

[kup]

The thing is, I cannot see how anyone at Hasbro could use that word to name a toy without knowing its meaning. There's no form of that word that doesn't either refer to the medical condition, or directly derive from the medical condition as an insult. What were they even going for, and how was there no-one in the entire creative process who went, "Hold on... Spastic? WTF?"

Tells you how much regard there is for the franchise at some levels over there.

[FFN]

Tells you how much regard there is for the franchise at some levels over there. Actually, this has more to do with the fact spastic (or the more common slang abbreviation, spaz) doesn't carry with it much controversy in the United States. Apparently, it's not used in the US as a derogatory pejorative for people who suffer from cerebral palsy like it is in say, the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spastic#Evolution_of_the_term_in_the_United_States

So it's more to do with Hasbro being an American toy company (and not being aware that term is offensive in some regions), essentially a cultural misunderstanding, than any lack of regard for the Transformers franchise.

[kup]

They couldn't do a US Google search?

http://www.google.com.au/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&q=spastic&aq=f&aqi=g4g-o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=c5d7755179fb1733

[Sky Shadow]

Actually, this has more to do with the fact spastic (or the more common slang abbreviation, spaz) doesn't carry with it much controversy in the United States. Apparently, it's not used in the US as a derogatory pejorative for people who suffer from cerebral palsy like it is in say, the UK.

Yeah, but it's still naming a Transformer after a medical condition. I mean, imagine the uproar if there was a Transformer called "Cancer"...

Actually, never mind. ;)

[FFN]

ゴッドジンライ ・ キャンサーを救う!?

"God Ginrai - Save Cancer!?"

[GoktimusPrime]

Actually, this has more to do with the fact spastic (or the more common slang abbreviation, spaz) doesn't carry with it much controversy in the United States. Apparently, it's not used in the US as a derogatory pejorative for people who suffer from cerebral palsy like it is in say, the UK.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spastic#Evolution_of_the_term_in_the_United_States

So it's more to do with Hasbro being an American toy company (and not being aware that term is offensive in some regions), essentially a cultural misunderstanding, than any lack of regard for the Transformers franchise.

But "slag" is chiefly a derogatory term against women in the UK, and yet Hasbro USA decided to avoid using that name in fear of offending people in their non-American markets.

And also, the word "slag" has other non-derogatory meanings, which makes sense in the context of the character as a flamethrowing robot. The word "spastic" is defined as (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spastic) a person who has spasms (from the Latin "spasticus" meaning "to be afflicted with spasms"). So... in what context does this name suit the character? Is he prone to having violent seizures during mid-transformation? (KREMZEEEEEEK!)

What's next? A character whose Speed is 1 and always runs late... let's call him Retard!

[FFN]

Not somebody prone with seizures, but they are most likely referring to a character who is super-energetic, wound up, rapidly moving and clumsy, possibly in an amusing fashion, like Movie Frenzy. That's likely what they're going for, and generally, what North Americans refer to when they describe somebody being "a spaz".

From what I understand in discussion with (generally left-wing, politically correct) Americans and Canadians, their usual usage of spastic or its slang variety spaz is usually not referring to somebody with cerebral palsy or associated conditions, nor is it meant to be the derogatory term it is in some other countries.


It's an honest mistake, not one of malice or stupidity or, as Kup suggests, a lack of caring for the franchise. Even Gok's own cited dictionary definition doesn't suggest that it is a derogatory term at all. After all, in a culture where the word seemingly doesn't have any negative connotations (and is unrelated to serious illnesses), it would seem to be excessive to check if, on the off chance, it was offensive elsewhere?

With hindsight and coming from a different culture, we can say it's a mistake on their part, but it's not as stupid a mistake as some of you are suggesting.

[GoktimusPrime]

Not somebody prone with seizures, but they are most likely referring to a character who is super-energetic, wound up, rapidly moving and clumsy, possibly in an amusing fashion, like Movie Frenzy.
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz233/twoFirefly/jar-jar-binks.jpg


From what I understand in discussion with (generally left-wing, politically correct) Americans and Canadians, their usual usage of spastic or its slang variety spaz is usually not referring to somebody with cerebral palsy or associated conditions, nor is it meant to be the derogatory term it is in some other countries.
And "slag" isn't derogatory outside of Great Britain, and even in the UK it's still not derogatory when used in the context of referring to metals - and from a male robot character.


It's an honest mistake, not one of malice or stupidity or, as Kup suggests, a lack of caring for the franchise. Even Gok's own cited dictionary definition doesn't suggest that it is a derogatory term at all. After all, in a culture where the word seemingly doesn't have any negative connotations (and is unrelated to serious illnesses), it would seem to be excessive to check if, on the off chance, it was offensive elsewhere?

With hindsight and coming from a different culture, we can say it's a mistake on their part, but it's not as stupid a mistake as some of you are suggesting.
You'd think they'd learn to do a bit more research into names after the Nexus Maximus affair. :p A simple Google search (with safe mode switched off ;)) probably would've let them know that the word could be offensive in some regions.

Also, the issue I have with this justification is that it seems to contradict Hasbro's action/policy when they deliberately avoided using the name "Slag" and called him Snarl -- in the extremely remote off chance that someone would find it offensive, and even if they did find it offensive and tried to take legal action against Hasbro, they wouldn't have a case since in the context of a flame-throwing Dinobot it's a perfectly reasonable word. It would be like say going to a dog show and trying to take legal action against the organisers for having a sign that said "First Class Bitches" (I've actually seen a sign that said this the Royal Easter Show - for a dog exhibit). Since they're using the word 'bitch' in an appropriate context, then they're perfectly safe to do so. Likewise Hasbro would've been perfectly safe to use "Slag" for that character. After all, G1 Slag was still called "Slag" during the 1980s (and Slag made more than half of his appearances in the Marvel Comics in the UK issues).

Ya know, up until Animated Slag came along, I would happily agree with you. When Night Slash Cheetor came out, UK fans had a good laugh, but everyone understood that it was an innocent cross-sociolinguistic faux pas. Then the same thing happened again with Slapper. Then the whole Animated Snarl thing came out, which established a precedent for Hasbro USA supposedly wanting to be more "sensitive" to potentially upsetting people in other regions (even though they totally wouldn't have IMO).

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/animatedsnarl_affliction.jpg

Would it be possible for Hasbro's International division to give this toy a different name in other Anglophone countries? They could easily print off some stickers to put over the names on the packaging and instructions. They've done it before (not necessarily to change names, but other things on packaging).

[Paulbot]

I was just watching the first episode of the new Conan O'Brien talk show, and one of his first guests was Lea Michelle from Glee. She's the sweet, wholesome girl from the show. She talked about herself as a child and described herself as "energetic" and "spastic".

If it wasn't for this thread I would have been quite shocked with such a comment. Even having read that it's not an offensive term in the US it still seemed really odd for someone to use to describe themselves.

[Tallestblue]

For some odd Reason I'd be a lot happier if the character was called "Spazz" rather than "Spastic" Although I don't collect PCCs.

[Hursticon]

See, I dunno maybe it's because I'm from Dapto? :p, but I've never found the word Spastic to be terribly offensive at all - hell as Primary School kids we used to call each other Spastics all the time, I still to this day call my Father a Spastic or a Spaz when ever he flips out over nothing.

You see, to me, this is very much like the 'Gay' description argument in that whilst someone may use the term, they're more often than not never actually calling a person a Homosexual but saying they're crap - All they are doing is swapping out the word for another, much like the way other profane (I call descriptive ;)) words are used.

When I call someone a Spastic, I'm not trying to offend a sufferer of Cerebral-Palsy, all I'm doing is describing someone's actions.
Where I take offence, is if someone actively and knowingly sets out to offend handicapped people i.e. walking up to a disabled person in the street and calling them spastic - that is wrong and atrocious!

Now, if they had gone and called Transmutate 'Spastic'?...

[FFN]

You'd think they'd learn to do a bit more research into names after the Nexus Maximus affair. :p A simple Google search (with safe mode switched off ;)) probably would've let them know that the word could be offensive in some regions. Again, that would be under the assumption that they had any inkling that it was an offensive word in other regions, and logically, if they did have any inkling, they most likely would have avoided the word entirely.

See where this is going? You've already shown that Hasbro tries to be culturally sensitive when they are aware of a problem. If they didn't know there's a problem, how could they respond to it? Why would they do a google search for a word that, to Americans, seems perfectly reasonable?

Additionally, their lawyers and the US Trademark registration office evidently didn't see a problem with trademarking "spastic" either, further demonstrating that generally Americans have no idea that "spastic" is now considered to be an offensive term in some countries.


Is anybody else going to attempt to argue that they did somehow know that spastic was offensive but were too lazy to double check or simply didn't care? Because that would be a ridiculous argument.

[Seraphim Prime]

You see, to me, this is very much like the 'Gay' description argument in that whilst someone may use the term, they're more often than not never actually calling a person a Homosexual but saying they're crap - All they are doing is swapping out the word for another, much like the way other profane (I call descriptive ;)) words are used.

Yes but the argument is:

Gay = Homosexual (although even that is not the original definition...)

Gay = Crap/Stupid/disapproved


Therefore,

Homosexual = Crap/Stupid/somewhat detestable.


By calling someone gay, in the context you describe, you're not saying that they are gay, but you are saying that they are displaying qualities similar to one who is gay, and the offence is in the association of homosexuals with your friends stupid actions/behaviours.



In this case, the issue in UK and Australia will be the association of the term "Spastic" with one of the evil Decepticon characters, thereby associating those who are medically spastic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spastic) with characters that are bad/evil. Although a cleverly written bio that discussed his boundless energy (as the Americans use the term) would go some way to alleviate any negative connotations, but not completely.

[Sky Shadow]

Is anybody else going to attempt to argue that they did somehow know that spastic was offensive but were too lazy to double check or simply didn't care? Because that would be a ridiculous argument.

I can't see that anyone has been arguing that. The point is that when they name any toy, they should do a basic Google search to know they're going to avoid another Slapper or Nexus Maximus scenario. It's common sense.

[Hursticon]

Yes but the argument is:

Gay = Homosexual (although even that is not the original definition...)

Gay = Crap/Stupid/disapproved


Therefore,

Homosexual = Crap/Stupid/somewhat detestable.


By calling someone gay, in the context you describe, you're not saying that they are gay, but you are saying that they are displaying qualities similar to one who is gay, and the offence is in the association of homosexuals with your friends stupid actions/behaviours.

In this case, the issue in UK and Australia will be the association of the term "Spastic" with one of the evil Decepticon characters, thereby associating those who are medically spastic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spastic) with characters that are bad/evil. Although a cleverly written bio that discussed his boundless energy (as the Americans use the term) would go some way to alleviate any negative connotations, but not completely.

I'd actually disagree with that Seraphim, as would one of my mates of 21 years who is a Homosexual.
He himself has told me that people calling each other 'Gay' is not offensive to Homosexuals whatsoever, or at least that's how he and his partner feel, and it is his belief that it is only offensive once you've given it a context.

What you have done is exactly that, you've given 'Gay' the context of Homosexuality and hence associated all the other meanings that the word 'Gay' can have and pinned it to Homosexuals.
You've displayed a clear case of over the top - political correctness, much like the fairy penguins and bah bah black sheep debacle.

[GoktimusPrime]

See where this is going? You've already shown that Hasbro tries to be culturally sensitive when they are aware of a problem.
In one instance. And even then it was completely unnecessary and should never have been done IMO.


If they didn't know there's a problem, how could they respond to it? Why would they do a google search for a word that, to Americans, seems perfectly reasonable?
Apparently they did it for Slag... what gets me here is the seeming contradictory standards from Hasbro. They wanted to avoid using "Slag" in fear of offending people in the UK - even though they really wouldn't have... yet it was fine to use "Night Slash Cheetor," "Slapper" and now "Spastic" without any regard for potential offence.

I'm not saying that Hasbro _should_ care about this sort of thing, because really, in the correct context these words aren't offensive. "Night Slash Cheetor" is called so because he skulks around in the dark slashing people with his swords, not because he likes to go around urinating in late hours. "Slapper" got his name because... erm... he likes to slap people? Or maybe that's the sound he makes when he jumps? (because the original Car Robot name "Gusshar" is the Japanese onomatopoeia for the squishy sound a toad makes when it's stepping about). And yeah, even "Spastic" would be completely acceptable if it's a description of a highly excitable or energetic character. Fine, I get that.

But what I don't get it is how Hasbro wasn't willing to apply the same standards with "Slag." Just as 'spastic' is not an offensive word when used in the context of describing someone hypo (at least in the U.S.), then neither is "Slag" offensive in the context of smelted metal.

See... what gets me isn't so much that they're calling a toy "Spastic." What gets me is that Animated SLAG got totally gipped and was named "Snarl", all for the sake of Hasbro's New-Found International Political Correctness Sensitivity Policy(TM). And now it seems that they've abolished their NFIPCSP in allowing a toy to be called "Spastic." I dunno about yours, but my Animated Snarl is probably gonna be pret-ty Night-Slashed off when I tell him about this. Yup.

But anyway, I think Hasbro's International Division really should think about modifying this toy's name for its non-American Anglophone market.
From wikipedia:
"The word spastic is used differently depending on location which has led to some controversy and misunderstanding..... The word in common speech can also be used in a pejorative context. The level of severity depends on whether one understands it as it is used in the United States or the United Kingdom. In the UK it is considered an offensive way to refer to the disabled..... The current understanding of the word is well-illustrated by a BBC survey in 2003, which found that "spastic" was the second most offensive term in the UK relating to disability (retard was deemed most offensive). In 2007, Lynne Murphy, a linguist at the University of Sussex, described the term as being "one of the most taboo insults to a British ear"."

All they would have to do is print off some stickers with a variant name to stick over the packaging and instruction booklet. It's relatively inexpensive and, IMO, worth the effort in order to protect Hasbro's corporate image/reputation. Also, it might make U.S. completists go nuts and pay premium prices to buy some "foreign exclusive variant"... so maybe local collectors here could buy spares and try to hock them off at inflated prices to Americans. Hehehe... oh, I mean, NO! That's bad... don't do it! :p


I'd actually disagree with that Seraphim, as would one of my mates of 21 years who is a Homosexual.
He himself has told me that people calling each other 'Gay' is not offensive to Homosexuals whatsoever, or at least that's how he and his partner feel, and it is his belief that it is only offensive once you've given it a context.
I agree with Seraphim. The word "gay" when used as a synonym for something undesirable and negative (like "stupid") then makes it offensive because it is implying that gays are undesirable and negative people. Whether gay people personally find it offensive or not doesn't necessarily change that.

From wikipedia:
"When used with a derisive attitude (e.g. "that was so gay"), the word gay is pejorative. While retaining its other meanings, it has also acquired "a widespread current usage" amongst young people, as a general term of disparagement. This pejorative usage has its origins in the late 1970s. Beginning in the 1980s and especially in the late 1990s, the usage as a generic insult became common among young people.

This usage of the word has been criticized as homophobic."


What you have done is exactly that, you've given 'Gay' the context of Homosexuality and hence associated all the other meanings that the word 'Gay' can have and pinned it to Homosexuals.
I think everyone understands that when people use the word "gay" to describe something in a negative context (e.g. "Spastic is such a gay name"), that they are using it in the context of homosexuals as a synonym for negativity.

I think it's fine to use the word "gay" outside of that context though. For example, some people are now challenging the line from "Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree" where it says "How gay your life must be." -- now, to take offense to that is just silly. Obviously they're using the word 'gay' in the context of being happy, and I don't think children should be insulated from it, but simply taught about context - because context is a major part of how languages work.

But having said that, there are some words that, when they become widely taken offensive, that it may be unwise to assign that word to the name of a children's toy. For example, imagine if I made a Transformer character whose tech specs profile describes him as being extremely sociable and a great communicator... so I call him "Intercourse." Contextually I'm using the word in its correct meaning. In reality, I'm probably gonna get complaints from parents. :p ;) A colleague of mine found a school report written around 1900 which described a male student as having "excellent intercourse." The teacher was of course praising his social intercourse... but I reckon if I wrote that now in a student's report, I'd probably end up in a spot of trouble. ;)

[Paulbot]

This thread is probably several pages longer than it needs to be, and although I don't want to make it go longer, I'm not going to let this pass without comment.

Personally, I wince every time somebody uses the word "gay" in a negative and do find it offensive. It's disappointing that so many people think this sort of casual derogatory language.

[Hursticon]

I agree with Seraphim. The word "gay" when used as a synonym for something undesirable and negative (like "stupid") then makes it offensive because it is implying that gays are undesirable and negative people. Whether gay people personally find it offensive or not doesn't necessarily change that.

From wikipedia:
"When used with a derisive attitude (e.g. "that was so gay"), the word gay is pejorative. While retaining its other meanings, it has also acquired "a widespread current usage" amongst young people, as a general term of disparagement. This pejorative usage has its origins in the late 1970s. Beginning in the 1980s and especially in the late 1990s, the usage as a generic insult became common among young people.

This usage of the word has been criticized as homophobic."

I think everyone understands that when people use the word "gay" to describe something in a negative context (e.g. "Spastic is such a gay name"), that they are using it in the context of homosexuals as a synonym for negativity.

I think it's fine to use the word "gay" outside of that context though. For example, some people are now challenging the line from "Kookaburra sits in the old gum tree" where it says "How gay your life must be." -- now, to take offense to that is just silly. Obviously they're using the word 'gay' in the context of being happy, and I don't think children should be insulated from it, but simply taught about context - because context is a major part of how languages work.

But having said that, there are some words that, when they become widely taken offensive, that it may be unwise to assign that word to the name of a children's toy. For example, imagine if I made a Transformer character whose tech specs profile describes him as being extremely sociable and a great communicator... so I call him "Intercourse." Contextually I'm using the word in its correct meaning. In reality, I'm probably gonna get complaints from parents. :p ;) A colleague of mine found a school report written around 1900 which described a male student as having "excellent intercourse." The teacher was of course praising his social intercourse... but I reckon if I wrote that now in a student's report, I'd probably end up in a spot of trouble. ;)

I personally don't understand the argument that a word can still be considered offensive if the people who are supposedly meant to be offended by it, aren't being offended - how does that make sense?

Also I agree that some, if not a lot, of people still use it in a context of negativeness towards Homosexuals - I pity them because obviously they don't know how incredibly normal Homosexuals are, what they choose to do behind closed doors is their own business but I digress.

I'm going to leave it at that because whilst obviously I have differing opinions to others, I don't think this topic of discussion is really in-line with the thread and I don't want to offend anybody any further.


This thread is probably several pages longer than it needs to be, and although I don't want to make it go longer, I'm not going to let this pass without comment.

Personally, I wince every time somebody uses the word "gay" in a negative and do find it offensive. It's disappointing that so many people think this sort of casual derogatory language.

I agree Paulbot, as I am a cause and a contributor to that fact so I'm going to discontinue my discussions on the topic of names, as this thread is becoming incredibly derailed and I'm part of the guilty party.

In a vein attempt to swing things back on topic, I think it is a rather odd choice that they've decided to homage Dragstrip as the leader of these 'Stunticons' as I would love to see a new mold in the visage of G1 Motormaster.
(Scourge/Nemesis has stolen all his thunder and simple repaints suck! :mad::p)

I'm not a huge fan of PCCs really, I am curious to see a Manta Ray repaint of the boat though if someone wanted to photoshop one?

[kaiden]

I personally don't understand the argument that a word can still be considered offensive if the people who are supposedly meant to be offended by it, aren't being offended - how does that make sense?

because you cant account for 100% of the people in this case. there's bound to be someone offended even if their numbers are minor.


Also I agree that some, if not a lot, of people still use it in a context of negativeness towards Homosexuals - I pity them because obviously they don't know how incredibly normal Homosexuals are, what they choose to do behind closed doors is their own business but I digress.

I would say most people don't grow up around homosexuals which is why it is a difficult topic later in life. I didn't actually know any until after the age of 20+


I'm going to leave it at that because whilst obviously I have differing opinions to others, I don't think this topic of discussion is really in-line with the thread and I don't want to offend anybody any further.

It was an interesting read for me.


In a vein attempt to swing things back on topic, I think it is a rather odd choice that they've decided to homage Dragstrip as the leader of these 'Stunticons' as I would love to see a new mold in the visage of G1 Motormaster.

You could replace him with the huffer repaint - crankcase.


I'm not a huge fan of PCCs really, I am curious to see a Manta Ray repaint of the boat though if someone wanted to photoshop one?

I haven't bought a single PCC at all yet, actually leaving that to family to gift me for christmas

[kaiden]

Hasbro's statement about the Transformer product named "Spastic" (http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/hasbros-statement-about-the-transformer-product-named-spastic/20207/)

When they say no longer for europe, does that include australia?

[SkyWarp91]

Hasbro's statement about the Transformer product named "Spastic" (http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/hasbros-statement-about-the-transformer-product-named-spastic/20207/)

When they say no longer for europe, does that include australia?

I thought we were considered part of the Asian market? Isn't that why we're sometimes we're referred to as Australasia? :confused::confused:

[Seraphim Prime]

I thought we were considered part of the Asian market? Isn't that why we're sometimes we're referred to as Australasia? :confused::confused:

Not in Hasbro's eyes. Although I think we may count in statistics as Asia-Pacific, we have our own distributor looking after all releases, wave distribution, etc.


Which for the last few years I have been thankful for, after hearing all of the issues the UK folk now have in actually getting any TFs at all.

[1AZRAEL1]

It's likely we won't get him here as well. Hasbro Australia would know that "Spastic" is a word to not attach to a toy.

[GoktimusPrime]

guh... simply not selling the toy in markets where the name may potentially offend is a rather short-sighted solution. It would not be that hard or expensive to simply produce stickers with a variant name to apply onto packaging and instruction booklets, surely. Hasbro's done it before with other things, like the Beast Machines Deployers (the back of their cards had a MASSIVE sticker) and of course, all the imported Japanese Masterpiece toys that were sold in Australia (Hasbro placed an English language legal blurb sticker over Takara's). *sigh*

I'd consider getting this toy if I saw it in local stores, but I'm just not enough of a fan of PCCs to bother importing it.

[griffin]

We get US (packaged) stock, but have more ties to the English vernacular than the American one, so Hasbro AUS may decide to just not import the assortment cases with that figure in it.
We'll see in a few months time I guess.

[griffin]

The thing I don't understand is, even if it isn't an offensive word in America, how is it a positive term? The context people have given is still a negative one, even if it is for amusement... it is still has negative connotation for a derogatory purpose.
There is no positive spin you can give to the word Spastic or Spaz in America, because it has no positive meaning... so why use a descriptive word that can't be positively defended?
Stupid Hasbro.

[kup]

Stupid Hasbro.

Yep.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/weird-news/2010/11/12/uk-transformers-fans-fury-over-new-character-called-spastic-86908-22711513/

[Hursticon]

This was only a matter of time, I agree with Goki that it is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction by canning it's release to offended markets - surely a simple name change would remedy the issue, they do that quite often with TV shows and Movies. :confused:

[FFN]

The thing I don't understand is, even if it isn't an offensive word in America, how is it a positive term? The context people have given is still a negative one, even if it is for amusement... it is still has negative connotation for a derogatory purpose.
There is no positive spin you can give to the word Spastic or Spaz in America, because it has no positive meaning... so why use a descriptive word that can't be positively defended?
Stupid Hasbro. You're still being influenced by Australia's british roots. Even in what you're saying here, you're putting an angrier, more damning weight on the word than it has in the US.

In the North America, spastic (or spaz) has a similar weight to nerd, dweeb, doof, or dummy (in other words, the word has very little, if any, derogatory weight), then for them, this mildly negative term being used as a product name wouldn't be a big deal. To them, a spaz is somebody who is hyperactive, random, excitable, ie, Movie Frenzy. You are being driven entirely by your Australian/British-derived understanding of the word.

You guys are frothing yourselves up into personal rage and offense on behalf of other people for an oversight.

Besides, spastic has previously been used in Transformers, modified to sound "more transformery", in the past: Spasma.


This was only a matter of time, I agree with Goki that it is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction by canning it's release to offended markets - surely a simple name change would remedy the issue, they do that quite often with TV shows and Movies. :confused: At this late stage, it is likely that the toys are well into production and ready to be shipped. Simply changing the names might mean pulping an entire production run (so far, anyway) of packaging and redoing it for all toys (including any wave/casemates who have Spastic as a cross-sell on the bottom of the packaging), delaying that wave/assortment. It's probably more cost-effective to just restrict that particular assortment to the United States and Canada, where Spastic's name is not a problem.

[Hursticon]

At this late stage, it is likely that the toys are well into production and ready to be shipped. Simply changing the names might mean pulping an entire production run (so far, anyway) of packaging and redoing it for all toys (including any wave/casemates who have Spastic as a cross-sell on the bottom of the packaging), delaying that wave/assortment. It's probably more cost-effective to just restrict that particular assortment to the United States and Canada, where Spastic's name is not a problem.

Hmm...
Fair point there FFN, maybe Hasbro could offer an exclusive UK/EU deal on their online store for those who want it then perhaps?

[GoktimusPrime]

You're still being influenced by Australia's british roots. Even in what you're saying here, you're putting an angrier, more damning weight on the word than it has in the US.
Well yes... Australian English is more closely related to British English (extended rant here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=205033#post205033) :)). But as griffin said, there doesn't appear to be a positive spin on this word even by US English standards.


In the North America, spastic (or spaz) has a similar weight to nerd, dweeb, doof, or dummy (in other words, the word has very little, if any, derogatory weight), then for them, this mildly negative term being used as a product name wouldn't be a big deal. To them, a spaz is somebody who is hyperactive, random, excitable, ie, Movie Frenzy.
I don't know if names like "Dweeb," "Dummy," "Nerd" or "Doofus Dorkimus" would sound cool even to American ears. Sure... 'spastic' may not sound as terribly offensive to Americans, but I don't think it sounds terribly 'cool' or 'awesome' either.

As I understand it, Americans consider the word "damn" to be far more taboo than we do. I've been told that Americans won't say this word in front of polite company, or if a child said it in front of an adult they'd be reprimanded for using profanity. But here it's not considered a profanity... but nor is it considered a terribly good word either. It seems the equivalent Australian English word would be "hypo" (e.g. 'Red cordial makes me hypo.') -- to be called hypo may not be as offensive as being called spastic, but a mild insult is still an insult nonetheless.


You guys are frothing yourselves up into personal rage and offense on behalf of other people for an oversight.
Because it is an offensive word to us. Yes, it's more offensive in the context of Australian English, but guess what - we're Australians. And Australia is a Hasbro market. Hasbro USA may have completely unintentionally done this - fine, I get that... but it doesn't mean they shouldn't do something about. If you were walking in a public place and you accidentally stepped on a stranger's foot, then you'd apologise right? Sure, you didn't mean to hurt them, but you did, so you are obliged something about it (i.e. say sorry). Likewise Hasbro USA have unintentionally made a lot of people feel upset with the choice of this name, thus they are obliged to do something about it, e.g. withhold sales of this toy in non-North American markets (or better yet, change the names for those markets) -- but they are obliged to do something and not just sit back there and say, "We didn't mean it so get off our backs."


Besides, spastic has previously been used in Transformers, modified to sound "more transformery", in the past: Spasma.
'Spasma' is a combination of 'spasm' and 'asthma' - as in when an asthmatic gets so upset that s/he suffers an asthma attack. But I don't think there's necessarily a pejorative or insulting connotation to that word. Not all words used to describe things are necessarily insulting (and as this episode has taught us, the magnitude of the offense can vary in different regions, apparently in American "wanker" isn't taboo as it is here (there's a Transformers voice actor whose screen name - as it appeared in the credits - was WANKUS - a deliberate cross between 'wanker' and 'doofus')). Also Nebulans are really more like accessories. Apeface was the toy, Spasma was his headmaster accessory.

I'm an asthmatic and I don't find 'spasma' offensive.


At this late stage, it is likely that the toys are well into production and ready to be shipped. Simply changing the names might mean pulping an entire production run (so far, anyway) of packaging and redoing it for all toys (including any wave/casemates who have Spastic as a cross-sell on the bottom of the packaging), delaying that wave/assortment. It's probably more cost-effective to just restrict that particular assortment to the United States and Canada, where Spastic's name is not a problem.
...or Hasbro Australia could print stickers with a different name to cover up wherever the name "Spastic" appears on the packaging.

As I said before, there have been precedents of where Hasbro has done this before, e.g. on the back of the Beast Machines Deployer cards and the legal blurb stickers on the Australian imported Japanese Masterpiece boxes. IIRC they even have the address and phone number for Hasbro Australia (I never bought any of them so I'm going off memory). It would be relatively cheap for Hasbro AU to make these stickers and it would allow them to sell the product here without fear of a public backlash (cos can you imagine any parent of a disabled child walking into a toy aisle and seeing a toy on a shelf with a name like "Spastic"??).

Not selling it here would be an option too, but feels more of a cop-out to me. IMO if Hasbro really wanted to try and make this toy work in our market (and other non-American Anglophone markets), then they would consider other alternatives like just making those stickers. Stickers would mean they wouldn't need to actually repackage any of the toys (just as our Deployers and Japanese Masterpieces were never repackaged - hell, other than the legal blurb sticker almost all the text on our imported MPs here were in Japanese!).

[christalcase]

errrr, what happens when people peel off the stickers??? It'll still have "Spastic" behind it and then people will still be insulted

[griffin]

You're still being influenced by Australia's british roots. Even in what you're saying here, you're putting an angrier, more damning weight on the word than it has in the US.

In the North America, spastic (or spaz) has a similar weight to nerd, dweeb, doof, or dummy (in other words, the word has very little, if any, derogatory weight), then for them, this mildly negative term being used as a product name wouldn't be a big deal. To them, a spaz is somebody who is hyperactive, random, excitable, ie, Movie Frenzy. You are being driven entirely by your Australian/British-derived understanding of the word.

You guys are frothing yourselves up into personal rage and offense on behalf of other people for an oversight.

I don't think I was being hostile or agressive in my post, I was simply observing that every example or explination given so far has not had a positive connotation to it. No one has been able to give a positive useage of the term, in any form. Even you yourself admit that it is 'mildly negative'... so if there is no positive useage of the term, my question still stands - why use it? Especially if there are easier alternatives, like homages (why not call it Dragstrip?).
Give an example where calling someone spastic or spaz in american vernacular, has a postive, friendly, supportive or even inspiring meaning.
Mildly or not, it is still used as a derogatory, insulting, chastising word. There is no non-negative use for that word in America, it's just not considered to be 'as bad' as other countries.

I'm certainly not advocating making a fuss about it like English fans have, but I'm definitely questioning the reasoning behind using a descriptive word that is insulting in all countries (mildly in America, majorly in England).

[GoktimusPrime]

errrr, what happens when people peel off the stickers??? It'll still have "Spastic" behind it and then people will still be insulted
They'd probably tear the cardboard. But even if they peeled it really carefully, that's not Hasbro's fault - that's the customer's fault. Hasbro have taken reasonable measures to cover up the potentially offending name. The toy was initially designed/intended for an American market, but Hasbro would have taken reasonable measures to adjust the name for an Australian market. If someone were to go an undo this, then that's not Hasbro's fault.


Especially if there are easier alternatives, like homages (why not call it Dragstrip?)
And that's the name that should appear on the stickers!

How cool would it be (for us) if this toy was called "Spastic" in North America, but then in other Anglophone countries it was called Drag Strip! :D

[kaiden]

New images of Salvage and Undertow

http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/new-images-of-pcc-salvage-with-bombburst-and-undertow-with-waterlog/20293/