What is the greatness of Transformers UK?

Alright. In fandom, I'm constantly reminded by how great Furman's run on the Transformers UK books were. I've never really read them though they did come into my possession at one point. I jumped on the IDW reprints of these tales and quite honestly have been dumbfounded by the inadequacy of these UK stories.

Mind you, I have high expectations of them b/c of fan affection for them. However, given all my reading of Target: 2006, Dinobots thus far (two frequently mentioned storylines), I've thus far only be greated by sheer mediocrity. I'm not saying it's worse than stuff of it's time. What I'm saying it isn't much better than the US Marvel Transformers or G2 (which though had some good moments were never quite any good)

Looking in terms of characterisation, I see glimpses here and there of the base G1 characters but really the plots are loopy and the other Autobots are almost background generic with the odd comment showing their individuality. Even the Dinobot stories aren't showing much... I mean, Sludge head over heels over a woman...

Oh and the art sucks majorly but that's a personal preference thing and I can appreciate people have different preferences.

What's disappointing is where are these high and mighty complex tales that I keep hearing about that are the highpoint of Transformers fiction. I can't see it. As far as I'm concerned, Furman's run on the US G1 Marvel series was far superior in terms of story.

So can anyone show me where the greatness is?

I'm not sure what IDW is reprinting in the Dinobots series? I assume it's Dinobot Hunt? That's very early on but has it's moments (like the Autobots questioning former Decepticon Jetfire's loyalty whereas in the US he was just welcomed into the ranks no questions asked). The later Dinobot story "In The National Interest" is a great story and my favourite Dinobot story.

TF UK's main difference was that the focus was on the Transformers. Most of Budiansky's run the stories were about humans interacting with Transformers whereas Furman had no problems telling stories that were soley about Transformers at times.

After Target 2006 the next 100 issues had an ongoing plot centred around Galvatron interspersed cleverly between the US stories (and 98% of the time not contradicting them!). This was a far longer, bigger story than anything the US produced. This is where the greatness comes from.

While the US continued to have stories designed to introduce the new toys, the UK comic simply told good stories about the Transformers. Forget Carwashes, used car lots and space carnivals, the UK gave us the Predacons vs the Dinobots, robot zombies(!) and an all-out Quintesson invasion of Cybertron.

The later UK stuff, the black and white five pagers, is not as great, but worth it for the character of Carnivac who Beast Wars Dinobot owes a lot to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

The later UK stuff, the black and white five pagers, is not as great, but worth it for the character of Carnivac who Beast Wars Dinobot owes a lot to.

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The Wreckers/Survivors stuff is gold.

The Earthforce stuff was alright for a bit of stand-alone fun, had a lot more humour in it than anything else released around the same time.

The Titan trades are worth the $10 or so they'll set you back, otherwise Time Wars is a good read. Furman really did do some great character work, especially for Grimlock, but the stuff for Nightbeat, Thunderwing, and even Rodimus far surpasses anything ever seen in the US comics.

Paulbot and i_amtrunks have summed up the differences in the quality of story telling quite well. :)

As for the artwork...

Here's a comparison of the US and UK covers of...

"The Human Factor!"
US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us68.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk303.jpg UK

Underbase Starscream
US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us50.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk209.jpg UK

Marvel US' José Delbo - "Thunderbirds are go!" (his TFs tend to look like puppets)
http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us42.jpg

Marvel UK's Andrew Wildman
http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk199.jpg

Marvel UK's Geoff Senior
http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk224.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/planetsabretron/bludgeon.jpg

And differences in colouring between same artworks...

UShttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us24.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk106.jpg

US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us71.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk311.jpg UK

US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us72.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk314.jpg UK

US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us74.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk318.jpg UK

US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us75.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk319.jpg UK

In the US comics Xaaron was always completely yellow http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/tr...npossessed.jpg
Whereas he had more colours in the UK comics http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/tr...ratexaaron.jpg

The UK comics had better print quality too - US Marvel Comics in the 80s used a very cheap and "pixelated" print format which didn't look nice. :/

Does this mean that in the comic world US = Hasbro and UK = Takara? :p
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Pissing Mature

Yes. All the best creators of the G1 US comics came from the UK comics first. :)

Thanks, Paulbot. I guess I'll have to keep following IDW's reprints to see if they get better. It sounds like they do with things like Dinobots vs. Predacons.

One thing I think the UK comicshad the advantage with was that they didn't have the constraints the US version did. The US one was the main marketing vehicle as Hasbro is a US company after all.Hence the drive was more to sell toys in more kid-like situations.

I don't necessarily agree on the art, Gok. UK was as ugly as UK at times. I think today's artists are far better. But as I acknowledge, art preference is a personal thing. Stories on the otherhand tend to be good or not.

Okay, taste preferences aside, here's why I think the UK art was better on a technical level...

1. Colouring - look a the comparative shots between US and UK colouring. UK colourists had a better execution of lighting. The colouring in the US comics were often relatively more simplistic and stark, whereas the UK colouring employed a wider palette and had a better use of gradients creating better textures - just look at the colouring difference between US and UK Emirate Xaaron. In the US comics, Yomtov just splashed yellow on him, whereas in the UK comics the colourist uses a combination of yellow and orange in a manner which makes him look like he's actually made of metal! When light strikes off a surface, especially metal, it will reflect in different shades and gradients. Look at Unicron's hand... the lighting is a lot better done in the UK version, which even includes optical flares reflecting off the hand, again creating the image that it is made of something shiny like metal! See the image of Optimus Prime kneeling? Look at the shadows beneath each picture and you'll see that again the shadow work is done a lot better in the UK version.

2. Visual narrative - generally it was crap in the US comics. One key element of modern comic book art is the cinematic technique; contemporary comic book art pioneers like Jack Kirby and Tezuka Osamu paved the way for what we now refer to as the cinematic technique that is used in comic books today. Long gone are the days where entire scenes occur in a single frame or panel, but instead action is split up into several frames - much like the storyboard for a movie (hence the name of this technique). The cinematic technique lends comic books "animation" in what is really a static form of art - these images are really not moving, but a good comic book artist will create the illusion in the reader's mind that they are. Now part of creating a good cinematic technique is being able to draw dynamic poses - poses that look more like the characters were photographed in mid-action and thus the image was frozen rather than intentionally posing for a shot. I find that the US artists were generally not as good as the UK artists in drawing dynamic action - especially José Delbo (and much worse still, Dwayne Turner *shudder*) - in the US comics they often looked like "Thunderbirds" marionettes; puppets dangling off strings and posing for shots, rather than giant f***ing robots who have been caught in mid-tumble! And that's what the UK artists tend to achieve better in. Look at the US version of Underbase Starscream... he's got his left foot in and his left foot out - what's he doing, the Hokey-Pokey?! Oh look at all those other Transformers around him fall from Starscream's Square-Dance of Doom! Now look at the UK version - Starscream is stepping over those Transformers who are flying about everywhere cos Starscream is blowing their asses up with his eye beams! Look at Rodimus Prime and Galvatron going at it... and Bludgeon with his katana up ready to decapitate Jazz... you can almost "feel" the tension. Now look at that image of Shockwave taking that king hit from Scorponok! That's got to hurt! Compare this now with the image of Prime getting shot by Megatron... umm... yeah? Relatively far less impressive - Prime gets shot and he leans to one side... Scorponok is hitting Shockwave so hard that his body has turned leaning inward toward Shockwave because his body is following his claw - which shows that your strike is delivering so much power that the arm is dragging the body along with it! Been watching the recent tennis coverage? Notice how good tennis players will actually have their body dragged along behind their rackets as they hit the ball, whereas crap tennis players will move their body behind the racket (and tend to rely more on their arm and racket string tension to hit the ball rather than driving any real power into their hits). The same goes with cricket - a good batsman will have his body move up with the bat whereas a poor batsman will do the opposite. There is power in that hit. And poor Shockwave's body is just totally keeled over from the ferocity of that strike!

Action scenes in the US comics was a lot like action scenes in "Team America: World Police", whereas in the UK comics it was literally a case of "let the bodies hit the floor!"

For example, one of my single favourite action shots was in The Matrix Quest when Jazz was trying to reason with Thunderwing and Grimlock just strolls up to the Decepticon and says something like, "No talk - hit!" and drives a punch into Thunderwing so hard that Thunderwing literally flew across the room and into a pile of crates... mech fluid dripping from the corner of his mouth where Grimlock's fist had connected (of course this was immediately followed by Thunderwing replying with, "Interesting... I almost felt that." ;D)

You know in the Transformers live action movie when the Transformers fight and they literally throw each other all over the place? That happens in the comics and it looks a lot more impressive in the UK comics. In the US comics they look more like rag dolls being thrown about whereas in the UK comics it's more similar to what you see in the Michael Bay movie - wanton destruction and hurtage!

But it's not all just about fighting... there are also some great emotional moments which the UK artists handle better IMO... such as the moment when Optimus Prime mourns over Scorponok's death. There's no words in that frame... just a silhouette image of Prime hunched over Scorponok, cradling the fallen Decepticon - almost as if he were weeping.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kup

Does this mean that in the comic world US = Hasbro and UK = Takara?

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Actually the artwork in the G1 manga craps all over the UK comics! It craps all over Dreamwave and is comparable with E.J. Su's art (depending on the artist - some of them are better than Su). A lot of the artwork in the Transformers Visual Works book was done by G1 manga artists.

But having said that, the G1 manga had terrible stories - worse than the G1 cartoon... it was aimed at kindergarteners or pre-schoolers. (-_-)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Okay, taste preferences aside, here's why I think the UK art was better on a technical level...

1. Colouring - look a the comparative shots between US and UK colouring. UK colourists had a better execution of lighting. The colouring in the US comics were often relatively more simplistic and stark, whereas the UK colouring employed a wider palette and had a better use of gradients creating better textures - just look at the colouring difference between US and UK Emirate Xaaron. In the US comics, Yomtov just splashed yellow on him, whereas in the UK comics the colourist uses a combination of yellow and orange in a manner which makes him look like he's actually made of metal! When light strikes off a surface, especially metal, it will reflect in different shades and gradients. Look at Unicron's hand... the lighting is a lot better done in the UK version, which even includes optical flares reflecting off the hand, again creating the image that it is made of something shiny like metal! See the image of Optimus Prime kneeling? Look at the shadows beneath each picture and you'll see that again the shadow work is done a lot better in the UK version.

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How Yomtov managed to keep his job for all the years never ceases to amaze me, he did such a substandard job, and never improved or changed his style.

+1

Nel Yomtov had this nasty habit of colouring Soundwave purple...
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/tr...e_uscomics.jpg
...and yes, for some reason US artist José Delbo liked to draw Soundwave with a mouth (which isn't even emoting well...)

Then there was his persistent habit of drawing all characters not in the main shot some common plain colour - usually purple. He must've sure loved purple...

...then there was the front cover of US#58...
http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us58.jpg...wtf?!
Yeah okay, I understand that Prime is meant to be mightily urinated there, but why is he completely red?!