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Warning! This thread contains spoilers for Avengers Endgame
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I'll get the ball rolling with one question - why didn't Nebula cease to exist after she killed her past self?
Also for anyone wondering, the Japanese text in my current sig pic says, "I love you 3000." <sniff>
Because that’s not how time travel works! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
They stated that time travel in these films that you cannot affect your past self (and cause the grandfather paradox) because your future self in the past is still your future (or present) self.
You cannot be killed by yourself until you have lived long enough to come back to the past to kill yourself...
I cannot express how excited I am for guardians three now, the “hunt for Gamora” or whatever it’ll be called. Thor better still be with them.
On a side note, I am glad that marvel put the female charge in, even if all those characters were woefully under utilised.
My question is (and I have theories about this one as well but want other opinions) how come the avengers did so well against thanos in Infinity War when he had the gauntlet but struggled so much when he came back without the gauntlet? I know they’d just survived the complex falling on them, and Thor was waaaaaay out of shape but still, they really should’ve been able to keep him on the back foot more.
I can’t wait to see this movie again, but maybe in a few weeks when I am emotionally ready, this movie is draining!
Exactly this regarding the time travel.Quote:
Originally Posted by i_amtrunks
I actually felt like the female charge was quite forced, there were no male heroes in the vicinity of all these females? I preferred the scene in Infinity War where the three females fight Proxima Midnight, that felt more natural while still making the point.
I think you answered your own question re Thanos. Really, only Thor could match him with the Gauntlet in Infinity War, so given he was a shadow of his former self I think it was believable that they each struggled with Thanos.
I'm going to watch it again tomorrow, this time with my son. I'm hoping I will take in a few extra things.
It was a different movie to what I was expecting, which isn’t a bad thing really, and although it wrapped up main character arcs in the MCU to date nicely, it leaned a bit too heavily on nostalgia. A lot of the plot seemed to centre around nostalgia. It was an enjoyable movie, but I wouldn’t rank it as the best of the MCU, which means for a sort of climactic finale, it failed in the climactic part for me.
Regardless I don’t think we will ever see something of the kind of cinematic experience the MCU achieved again. It was a great ride. The only thing I think is left to say as a movie enthusiast is Thank you for the experience and Well done.
Hhhmmm... so this means that when Further Future Steve Rogers went back in time to live with Agent Carter, the they must have been secretly married or whatever so as to not alert his existence to others, especially to Steve Rogers Prime. So, when Future Steve Rogers travelled back to 1970 and saw Carter, she was already married to Further Future Steve Rogers. And when she was "reunited" with Steve Rogers Prime... Further Future Steve Rogers was already an old man too and was probably hiding in the garage or something? :eek: Whoa!
I do like how this movie dealt with time-travel as a means of changing the future and not the past. Because otherwise it would've been another Days of Future Past, and TBH I would've been fine with that too. But seeing them deliberately avoid this trope was pretty awesome. It also means that they're not rendering the events of previous films useless or non-canon etc. - it's not that easy "reset" switch that a lot of time-travel movies do. And yeah, the fact that Gamora Prime and Black Widow were permanently gone was something I did not expect. And it was bitter sweet seeing Past Gamora arrive, especially when she met Star Lord.
I'm expecting to see more regular nerd-sized fans cosplaying as Endgame Thor! :D Who needs a six-pack when you can have a keg! ;)
Saw it yesterday. Not a big fan of the time travel thing. Just feels like a cop out. Was hoping for some surprise new characters to pop up like what Red Skull did in Infinity War. I feel like Black Widow should of been there in that final battle.
And when Tony snapped his fingers, why did only the baddies turn to dust?
Saw it last night and I really enjoyed it, mostly as a fitting way to send off the phase 1 MCU characters. The actors’ sign offs in the end credits was a great touch. The movie was really 3 hours of fan service, bringing back characters and actors (Robert Redford, Tilda Swinton among others) which added a special feel to the movie. That elevator scene with Captain America was absolutely sublime.
It was good to see Captain Marvel wasn’t the ace in the deck who saved the day. It really was a Avengers movie through and through. I honestly admit the “women of Marvel” scene smacked a bit of tokenism (as did my wife), but I’m not going to go “reeeeeeee feminism!” or anything. Expect some triggered people though.
I acknowledge the time travel aspect was a little difficult to swallow. Still trying to get my head around how fucking around with the past doesn’t affect the future. Or are they simply saying as long as all the stones are in the “present” then nothing changes? Eh, I’d say Back to the Future does it better.
Still, I couldn’t ask for much more from this film. There won’t be anything like a MCU for a long time. Nor should other studios try it, and those who tried unsurprisingly haven’t had the same success.
Because the stones implement the will of whomever wields them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Metro
Hence why Thanos’ snap wiped out half of sentient life. He’s smart enough to know that nature tends to balance itself out over time, and that intervention is only required for the species which overpopulates without regard or control.
Hence why Banner’s snap brought back the vanished, because that is what he wanted.
Tony only snapped to stop Thanos and his army, and that is what happened.
I felt that it was less of a cop out than the "Days of Future Past" option. At least here by adhering to the grandfather/boostrap paradox they actually cannot alter the past but only the future. And we all knew that time travel would have to be the solution because how else are you going to bring back characters that have sequels coming out (e.g. Spider-Man Far From Home etc.)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Metro
I would've preferred it too, but objectively speaking sacrificing Black Widow was the more logical choice since Hawkeye has a family. Black Widow's death leaves sad friends in the wake; Hawkeye's death would do the same but also leave a grieving widow and three orphans. Black Widow wasn't just thinking about her friend, she was also thinking about his family; and we know that she's a good friend of the Barton family.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Metro
From a story perspective the loss of Black Widow and Iron Man (and the continued loss of Gamora Prime) gave the story more gravitas. It reminds the audience that this is a consequential war. And it makes the ending less of a "cop out" than it otherwise would have been with a time travel story. Yeah, the loss of these characters suck. It hurts. It's meant to hurt. And while Iron Man orphaned his daughter, he did ensure that she has a future to be orphaned in.
Because it's what Tony Stark wished for; he can bend reality to his will. This is what Thanos did when he supposedly wiped out half of all life in the universe, but in Tony's case he wished for wiping out Thanos and all of his forces. Thanos' new plan was to wish for the universe to be reset with the population reduced and never knowing any other reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega Metro
Another interesting point in the movie was when Captain America took time to notice the benefits of Thanos' plans; when he mentioned how clean the ocean was and how he saw a pod of whales (suggesting that the whale population is recovering). This was always the thing that made Thanos such an interesting villain; while the idea of murdering half the population of the universe is abhorrent, the idea of saving the environment for the sake of future generations makes a whole lot of sense. Of course, Thanos could've just wished for more resources and cleaner environments (e.g. wishing away pollution, patching up the ozone layer etc.) instead of killing people, but then it wouldn't make him much of an antagonist. :p
Interesting suggestion of Thanos wishing for more resources/cleaner environments as an alternative. Sadly though I’m inclined to think that this will inevitably lead to the same problem in the future and Thanos will end up with the same problem, and multiple snaps are a no-no. Although not explored in the movies, I wonder if the Thanos snap also sends a message to the survivors to get their shit together and build a more sustainable population.
His change of mind at the climax of the movie to wipe out all sentient life was a good touch though.
So when Captain America goes back to Vormir to return the Soul Stone, does he have a punch on with Redskull?