Quote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
Nah I figured these out all by myself!:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Trent
No it's the fact that they left all the accessory and interaction bits out.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
Nah I figured these out all by myself!:pQuote:
Originally Posted by Trent
No it's the fact that they left all the accessory and interaction bits out.
Oh good! - As they're often parts that people seem to get stuck at, because they're crazy! am I right? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by doublespy
Really? - I've not seen the Hasbro instructions (I've the TakTom version ;):cool:) but am somewhat not too surprised by this :o, in saying that though it's by no means excusable and really needs further passes in the QC department. :rolleyes:;)Quote:
No it's the fact that they left all the accessory and interaction bits out.
it time for a vent hey
1. the majority of the thrilling thirty are the same damn figure and some are just convention exclusives that unless you own your own private jet to just duck off and pick them up then us aussie's get stuck trying to purchase extremely inflated priced products to try and complete collections and where are the Australian exclusive Transformers.
2. Why don't madman have an Australian release on their site I went to supernova for two reasons 1. meet gary chalk 2. purchase Season 2 of transformers Prime which was released 2 months ago in the US. and all of the energon, cybertron, and RID Series are nowhere to be found in R4 GRRRRRR.
3. Generations and timelines/classics seem to sell well so why can't we get a TV Series or something based on the past characters us older fans deserve something to justify Masterpiece and generations maybe some bonus DVD's with MP Figures or something I need a new g1 fix
^Fully agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksaber
Although some Classicsverse toys (and the MP Seekers) appear in the IDW comics. And in Japan there was a Henkei! Henkei! manga series (though written for a young audience).
I think Hasbro underestimate the selling power of G1 just look at w4c and FOC largely based on G1 massive selling power why not create a TV Series based on the Generations toyline around these games?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
That is what Transformers Prime is supposed to be. War For Cybertron, Fall of Cybertron and TF Prime are all part of the Aligned Continuity Family.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksaber
Transformers Prime is shoehorned into WFC and FOC which clearly were meant to be G1. If one uses common sense rather than what hasbro says, it can clearly be seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Why couldn't those games just be 'G1' as they were meant to be? Who knows but I bet it's not a very good reason.
I personally don't recognize 'The Aligned' continuity. To me is utter BS.
Oh, I don't deny that - but officially they're meant to be part of the Aligned Continuity Family. :o I would have no objection if they wanted to make a Classicsverse cartoon and include WFC/FOC figures into it. Heck, IDW have pretty much done that w/ their Ongoing G1 series which has seen FOC and Classicsverse toys appear in it. :D
And Prime (Bulkhead, Vehicons) and Animated (BlitzVing) and Beast Wars (Wapinator, Rattrap) and their own made up characters (Rung, Pharma, etc) and even Kamen Rider (V3 and Den-O)Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
I do however agree that Hasbro should think about doing some kind of series solely for the fans, based around the G1 universe
for me the IDWverse works why not expand on that simple
but it'd have to have a new toy line to go with it, after all the cartoons are made to sell toys, most of the classics verse has already been n gone
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksaber
Consistency is toy sales ;):p
My ROTF Hoist came sans missile when he was described as 'complete' :(
Was only $11 but have still contacted the seller. They have a decent track record but not perfect so will be interesting to see what happens
A very first world problem but all through classics I have refrained from buying the Takara versions despite loving the richer colours.
Now, after buying the more accurate shiny Takara FoC figures I am having a bloody hard time going back to the Hasbro Generations (lack-of) paint schemes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksaber
I'm curious to know why you feel that you "deserve" something from Hasbro. The fact that you are an older fan doesn't entitle you to anything more than any 5 year old out there. You buy TFs because you like them, not because you are doing Hasbro a favour. Conversely, Hasbro are making toys because peopleare buying them, not becuse they want to show you their appreciation for all your years of loyal service.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Adding a DVD in with a MP is a wasted expense. Yeah sure, it would be good for us but you are not going to buy/not buy that MP based off the inclusion of a DVD. So what's the point. Remeber that the goal of Hasbro is not to make you happy. It's to make their shareholders happy.
I don't think Darksabre meant it in a literal sense, but it would be profitable for HasTak to exploit G1 fans (i.e. adult collectors w/ disposable incomes) by tapping into the popularity of G1 characters through MPs and Generations. It would sure make a lot more business sense than more endless shelfwarming repaints. ;) I don't really care about bonus DVD stuff though.
Toys like MP Soundwave are flying off shelves, and yet...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...psc18fac77.jpg :p
It's also worth noting that despite the underlying purpose of Hasbro needing to make money from selling "stuff", Transformers wouldn't be what it is today if it weren't for the support and interaction of the long-term fans... particularly since Gen2, which is when Hasbro designers, marketing managers and various creative bodies, started interacting with the fandom (BotCon, fansites, fan-votes, consultants like Ben Yee and Jim Sorenson, fans who now work for Hasbro and IDW, etc). If it weren't for the long-term fans who "deserve" some recognition from Hasbro, we wouldn't have Classic characters that are fan-favourites being produced as toys or being incorporated into the current Movies and MP line. Hasbro and TakaraTomy would just be like any other toy company and create something new and unique every few years that doesn't borrow or homage anything previously existed.
It's not a selfish entitlement being claimed by long-term fans (as noted in the posts above)... it is a noting that in the last 20 years we have a rather symbiotic relationship with Hasbro/TT, and that they shouldn't dismiss it too quickly when weighing up (or compromising) the profit potential with the fan-focus elements of future products.
After all, they've been profiting off what interests us long-time fans (in mainstream lines that use characters of old that the new fans won't know or would need to know, to enjoy the same toy mould in different colours & name, or even a cartoon/comic that has all new character names and character types for the same story), so why is it deemed selfish to remind Hasbro to keep including our "old fan" interests from time to time... as the new fans and old fans both benefit. (how many people bought MP Soundwave who were NOT around for Gen1? Same with Generations Metroplex, which was inspired by a character from almost 30 years ago, but reborn for the newer generation of fans AS WELL AS the long-term fans who were first interested in that character. That's the sort of thing I'm talking about - Hasbro occasionally looking to what would appeal to the long-term fans, with items that also interests/benefits the newer fans)
Selfish would be older fans demanding product that would not interest the newer generations of fans... and that's not what was being suggested here, as the original poster was asking for something added on.
All good points Griff. But the point I was trying to get across is that no matter what relationship we claim to have with Hasbro, the fact is that they only produce toys for the older fan market because its profitable. They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
Thrilling 30, Classics/G1 updates, MPs, IDW character homages, etc are all done to make money. Acknowledging G1/older fans and making them feel all warm and fuzzy inside is just an added bonus.
The second that catering to G1 fans stops being profitable, or they see some other area to invest their resources that will make them more profit, they will drop us so fast our heads will spin. It's not them being mean, it's being responsible to their stakeholders and I wouldn't expect them to operate any other way (not in a modern capitalist society anyway ;)).
So that sense of entitlement that that fans feel is only an illusion that we have ourselves constructed and perpetuate. It may even be reciprocated in the lower levels of Hasbro, say at the marketing and design management level. But get up to the executive and board level and its all money, money, money.
Considering some of the decisions made within Hasbro (that they tell us at BotCon each year and the Hasbro staff & designers that I know personally), you might be surprised that there's more thought (and compromise) put into fans than you think. So from my own personal interactions with the people involved in Transformers, it's not that much of an illusion. (BUT, it is an illusion if any fan thinks it is ALL being done for them... or should be done just for them)
The over-all budget and focus of the Brand is corporate driven and budget-restrained, but the individual figures, designs, character concepts, story elements... all the minor, individual stuff.... is done by the people who are either fans themselves, or are friends with fans. As such, their first thoughts are, how can I make this something I like as a fan, but make sure it fits within budget and be approved by the higher-ups.
From the designers I've spoken to, they are very passionate about the products because they work on them with the intention of having it appeal as much as possible to the existing fans (new or long-term), but, also know to include "padding" (gimmicks & repetitive characters) to the toyline that appeals to the Retailers and new consumers.
At least half the toys in the last year had some sort of fan-focused element to them. Not exclusively for the long-term fans, but because it can sell to them and their target audience (the new fans and regular consumers who aren't fans).
That's the balance, or compromise, I was referring to in my previous posting.
(It's the same thing I have to do here all the time, for 16 years, which is why I'm familiar with it - I have to balance what interests existing fans/members, with what will capture new members/fans.... both of which are different, but share certain key elements)
What I highlighted above is where I'm coming from. Darksaber's earlier comment that us older fans deserve something is exactly the type of entitlement we're talking about. Gok may be right in that Darksaber wasn't being literal with that comment but regardless it is an attitude that is quite prevalent in the fandom and I can but only shake my head in wonder at how little these people understand about how it all works.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
Oh, I agree. I've seen a lot of people on the global fansites that have a tantrum or mouth off about how Hasbro "should" have done something... just for them. It's disappointing and laughable, but also embarrassing to have that vocal minority try to represent the views of the more common, sensible fans.
If they make it, and I like it, I try to buy it. Simple as that. Buy what I dig, ignore the crap I don't. Botshots and Kreo aren't something I give a damn about, but whatever floats your boat.
That being said, I don't own Hasbro shares. I have no vested interests in the company, and can only buy what I want to succeed and hope others do the same. I personally think that what we're getting (as G1 fans) of late, with the efforts on the Masterpiece line is far better than any DVD that they could throw in, admittedly with a licensing cost tacked on from the rights holders.
Me? I'm just happy with an MP Bee, Wheeljack, and Ultra Magnus on the cards. God bless Takara sometimes.
The majority of fans don't want/expect Hasbro to make toys that won't sell. As griffin said, the ideal are toys that simultaneously appeal to both children of the 80s and children of today. Classicsverse are a great example of this.
Bring on MP Time Warrior! ;) :pQuote:
Originally Posted by millhouse
One really cool thing that Takara has done for over 15 years now is elicit direct feedback from customers. From the mid 90s, Takara TFs came with a self-addressed survey card that allowed customers to tell them what they thought about the toy they bought, and where relevant even nominate which characters they wanted to see produced in the future (e.g. G1 reissues, Binaltechs, MPs etc.). After the TOMY take over they ditched the cards and set up the online survey. Initially they removed the character nomination option (which sucked), but they've since reinstated it. :) I don't see why Hasbro can't set up something like this. Let customers vote and/or nominate which characters they'd like to see done for future Generations toys.
my point is some top shelf fan orientated items do make business sense have a look at MP Soundwave fans have wanted and waited and Hasbro were justly rewarded when they delivered this item.
I do hear what your saying why do this when you can sell new toys to kids holla holla get dollar but there is clearly a market in the g1 fan community just have a look at the comics largely g1 based and they sell well.
and my biggest frustration was that the thrilling 30 a lot of the items repeat and were convention exclusives instead of a worldwide release items like that which are a tribute to transformers over the last 30 years should be marketed world wide.
http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7688f56f.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Darksaber
I didn't this series existed till I got into Quickflix and boy was it a mistake watching the series.
I literally fell asleep watching it and not the animation or action was bad but the damn dubbing. Man I could tear out my hair out. Voice dub, the names and mostly Grimlock dubbed voice is not what i expected... arghhhhhh. Skipping out just after the 1st DVD.
The dubs are famously bad (and weren't made for a USA/AUS audience). You have to watch it subtitled.
Yeah, they're really bad. Sometimes i watch the dubbed version just for laughs :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Paulbot
FOC toys are as poor as Pharmacy or $2 store toys. While transforming FOC Swindle to leg mode, it 'folded' off (plastic too soft to even snap) a tap that is critical for alt/leg mode stability. The plastic in these things are so bad that I can even see that a KO Onslaught I've had for some years as a kitbash project has superior plastic.
It's a shame that stuff like this is given the 'official seal of approval'.
The funniest thing to do is have English subtitles on and the English Dub and watch all of the translation differences they say one thing and write something else pure Gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinnertwin
Hasbro should use these and dub them properly and bring the 3 extra series into the overall fold the general storylines aren't too bad
There's a rumour that the original intention of Transformers: Generations 2 was to do exactly this -- take the Japanese G1 series and dub them over with US series voice actors, e.g. Peter Cullen would play Optimus Prime in the early episodes of The Headmasters etc. The story goes that some genius decided to 'reintroduce' audiences to the cartoon universe by rejigging earlier US episodes with a CGI opening theme sequence and Cybernet Space Cube, then apply the same thing w/ the Japanese series (so they would all have a common theme), but of course the G2 series didn't rate well enough for that to have ever happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksaber
...again, this is pretty much an urban myth... I'm not aware of any actual evidence that shows that there's any truth to this, but it's a fun story anyway. ;)
Could they do it now 20 years after G1 ended? Is the demand there to justify the expense? But then again the expense is relatively low since the animation is all done, it's just a dub job. It also means that the cast don't have to be all together at the same time -- usually dub actors record their lines separately (which is why dubs typically lacks that "interactive performance" that you normally get from proper voice acting where actors can feed off each other's energy). And unfortunately some G1 voice actors are no longer with us, e.g. in the Victory episode where Wheeljack, Perceptor and Minerva rebuild Ginrai as Victory Leo, Wheeljack will need to be voiced by a different actor since the original voice actor for G1 Wheeljack (Chris Latta) is deceased.
Aw heck, let's face it... DrSmoov could pretty much dub the entire series himself. ;) :D
Quite a few are now gone... :(
d Roger C. Carmel - Bruticus, Cyclonus, Motormaster, Unicron (post movie)
d Phillip Clark - Dead End, Tantrum, Abdul Fakkadi, Auggie Cahnay
d Rege Cordic - Menasor, Quintesson Judge (movie)
d Scatman Crothers - Jazz
d Walker Edmiston - Inferno
d Ron Feinberg - Headstrong
d Ron Gans - Dragstrip
d Linda Gary - Chromia
d Ed Gilbert - Blitzwing, Thrust, Shawn Berger
d Jim Gosa - Abominus
d Johnny Haymer - Highbrow, Swindle, Vortex
d Stan Jones - Scourge, Pounce, Weirdwolf, Lord Zarak
d Aron Kincaid - Sky Lynx
d Bert Kramer - Computron
d Chris Latta - Starscream, Defensor, Reflector, Skullcruncher, Wheeljack, Sparkplug, Snake
d Don Messick - Gears, Ratchet, Scavenger
d Jeff McKay - Fireflight
d Tony Pope - Wreck-Gar (post movie)
d Ken Sansom - Hound
d Tony St James - Blot, Brawl, Cutthroat
d Robert Stack - Ultra Magnus (movie)
d Lionel Stander - Kup (movie)
d Orson Welles - Unicron (movie)
I guess it has been about 30 years now, but damn that's a fair chunk of the original cast gone now.
At least all the JP characters can get all new VAs, and very few of the US cartoon characters show up to even worry about.
(from my page here)
A redubbing of the JP series could be a good (and cheap) way to sell some future Generations toys - the Generations line could feature a heap of JP Gen1 characters that were never released by Hasbro to begin with.
I wonder if they could use some of the original g1 dub
but lets be honest with the tech these days anyone could voice them
how bout a new dub to go with the MP Star Saber release?
There is no smily on this bbs that expresses my sadness at seeing that list.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
Forget tech dude... DrSmoov and Dan Didsbury are master Transformers voice emulators! :D It'd be a great way to get fans involved at an official level too. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksaber
Note: Links contain coarse language, parental discretion is advised for children.
SOS Wheeljack
Heavy Metal Fight
Autobot Alert
Shockwave's Burden
The Rude Awakening of Optimus Prime
I would love to rewatch all of the Japanese episodes re-done with talent similar to the original English series (sans the guy they used for Sixshot in Rebirth) and using the same sound effects and background music. One of the nostalgic sounds that really hook me in is the 'sound of Cybertron' - love that robotic alien void.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
So far I have had no less than 7 people either PM or share on my FB wall the Gingerbread Movie Optimus pic that is doing the rounds. I thought it was cool the first time I saw it, but damn! Cant these people see what has come before! The worst part is that they are covering my FB wall with the same pic over and over again :mad:, I have a Transformatorium group page, why do they not think to put it there? :confused:
Heh - talk about your first-world problems :p
Walking into the shops for Boxing Day sales and seeing 50% off handbags, 50% off shoes, 30% off bath towels etc but then seeing Transformers toys still at full price. :mad:
What that shows you is two things:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangermot
1. What the mark-up on those other items are
2. Where our hobby sits in the grand scheme of things
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphim Prime
Maybe I used some bad examples. A better comparison would have been Transformers at full price whilst other toy lines are heavily discounted (e.g. Octonauts 30% off, Iron Man & TMNT 1/2 price).