lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvTxH...feature=fvwrel
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*mega face palm*Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
anytime your up Brisbane way your more than welcome to join me for a spar or swap techniques/ideas Gok :)
Just be carefull starting up a 'fight club'... as in don't call it a fight club lol. That sort of name will attract unwanted attention and has negative connotations. Forming a training group can be great though, I have been part of one in the past and learnt some interesting concepts and techniques that I wouldn't have normally been exposed to. One thing to watch though is if people get hurt. I would hate to see you on the end of some nasty litigation if one of your training buddies get's injured and decides to sue (may never happen but in today's day and age you have to consider it). As the organiser you may be held responsible? Maybe someone here who has legal knowledge could advise??
After watching that previous youtube vid I found this one. All I can say is HADOUKEN!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z0_n...eature=related
feel free to reply with any facepalm images you think are worthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
+1. That would be an awesome idea if we lived in the same locale (or had teleportation devices :p). :) It's so hard to discuss this kind of stuff in text, whereas when you talk about this stuff with people IRL it's much faster and more efficient! I find it's a case of "a move speaks a thousand words." :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
Thanks dude, and likewise. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rodimus
I've organised and participated in informal training gatherings before too, and I did look into the legality of it. My understanding is that it falls under third party public liability - which means that whoever hurts someone else is legally liable. It's pretty much the same liability that happens for any other sport activity run by private individuals. For example, we could form say a cricket team and play/train in the park. If say Bartrim were to hit me with a cricket ball and I sustained injury, then he may be liable. This is why martial arts schools take out insurance which covers them in the event of injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Rodimus
But I think that within reason it would be possible. If anyone here is thinking about starting up such groups in your local area, here are some suggestions:
+ Agree that everyone participates at their own risk.
+ Only allow people who have a prior martial arts training/experience participate.
+ Agree to a set of rules for the sake of safety. If someone doesn't agree, then don't train with them. For example, the last group I was involved with was with MMA and MT fighters. After I badly hurt one of them in the groin, I purchased an external groin guard for my partners to used, but at the next training session, they refused to wear it -- more concerned about just not targetting the groin rather than wearing it for safety. So I refused to continue training with them and left the group.
...basically, you just use common sense. Train hard, but keep each other safe. :)
I would also consider purchasing training equipment too. I personally have chest protectors, head protectors, groin guard, shin guards, mitts, focus pads, kick shield, boxing bag, gym mat etc. -- so I'm equipped to practise with other like minded MA enthusiasts. I guess I just gotta build some contacts around my area. I know one guy near who lives near me that I used to train with. And I've started forming a rapport with some of the people I'm training with at GKR, so I might be able to get some of them on board (particularly one brown belt who seems promising and has expressed his frustration to me about his training).
Another thing I've enjoyed about these informal training groups is that you get to meet a variety of people of different MA backgrounds... you don't get that so much in MA school settings where most people are trained in the same style. So it's a good way to test your own training/style against others too... cos often you see people fight a certain way and think to yourself, "I wonder what I'd do against that?" :) You can theorise all you like, but you'll never know unless you try. The worst injury I've sustained from training outside a school was a bruise near my rib after trying out some European Broadsword! I totally suck at weapons. :p
mutual training is awesome if organised and controlled well. some of my best experience come from this type of setting :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
I spent a bit of time hunting around reading and watching vids online of bogus martial arts and had quite the laugh at these no touch knock out people. Here is another one, who actually trained under that George Dillman goose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar1yXYOsxQk
Notice UFC fighter Stephan Bonnar at 3:32:D After not being able to knock out any of the BJJ fighters he claims that this will only work on 40% of people and it is very hard to use it on pro-athletes because of their training... but he couldn't even use it effectively on the reporter:rolleyes:
For me I prefer to use the sonic boom over the hadouken:p
I'll check that vid out when I get home. :) But yeah, I've definitely heard stories about these kinds of schools. Also, because my MA experience has predominantly been in internal MAs, I've seen these kinds of people before IRL. There was a guy in a group that I used to train with who absolutely believed in this sort of thing... that he can expel his chi energy and kill you without touching you blah blah blah. Trying to argue with these kinds of people is like trying to argue with people who are extremely supersitious or religious to the point that they block out logic and common sense. Like any time I'd ask him to demonstrate this power to me, the excuse would be, "I can't, otherwise I'd badly hurt you or might end up killing you." I'd say, "Yeah, I'll take that risk. Try me." but he'd repeat the same thing and say, "I won't use my power unless I'm under a real attack," and of course, I'm not about to assault the guy to prove a point, so he wins. :rolleyes:
Then I'd ask him what he'd do to defend himself if he were attacked, but the attacker wasn't presenting him with lethal force. Like say if someone had grabbed his shoulder in a threatening way... most of us would physically do something to escape and/or counter that grab, but then we'd quickly assess the threat before choosing what an appropriate response would be. Like if someone's trying to grab shoulder so they can swipe your bag, you can't deliver a lethal blow... then you'd be up for manslaughter charges. But he was like, "If someone attacks me then they deserve to die. I can't be held responsible for that." And again, repeatedly headbutting a brick wall was less painful than trying to argue against that with this guy! He thought the rest of us were being stupid and foolish for training in tactile self defence.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...imeratchet.jpg
He was just completely delusional and completely convinced about his ability to project energy to defend himself and kill people. :rolleyes: The rest of us in the group distanced ourselves from him (he'd just stand several metres away from us and do solitary form practice all the time) and just laugh at him... and not just about his conceptions of combat, but also because he wore this super-tight see-through shirt that showed off his ... erm... "radio dials" <shudder>... and he frequently had his fly undone. :p But nobody was gonna tell him that. ;) We all just kept telling each other that any one of us would just so love to be a fly on the wall if he ever found himself in a situation where he had to defend himself! I can just imagine him holding his hands out imagining that he's projecting his chi energy to kill his attacker... yeah. Maybe the attacker would laugh so hard or take pity so he wouldn't bother continuing the attack (in which case this guy would be totally convinced that his powers worked... like a Jedi Mind Trick).
I've heard of this one school that teaches students to fight like this. The teacher charges his students some ridiculous amount of money for each class (like $100/lesson?) ... and he even has students who regularly fly in from interstate just to train with him! Someone told me that he visited this school and saw the teacher "Force Pushing" the students around. He'd make a gesture, and the students would throw themselves back, falling down as if they'd been shoved by an invisible force. When he spoke to the students, they absolutely believed that their master had pushed them with an unseen force. He asked the students if any of them could do it, and they said, "Oh no, it takes a lifetime to achieve this." He then asked the master if he could demonstrate some of this force, and he said, "Oh no, without proper training you would die!" :rolleyes: But he told me that these were the kind of people who just wanted to be conned into something... like they're desperate for some kind of emotional crutch. And he said that quite honestly, if this bogus MA school weren't ripping them off and giving them false hope, then somebody else would be. It's like that scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian where the big crowd keeps chasing Brian and won't leave him alone. :)
Ive been to a small circle jiu jitsu Seminar that Leon Jay took. The most memorable part was being moved by Qi.
I was extremely skeptical and starting thinking about the Roof i was working on the next day, Just to take my mind off it.
I was facing away from him and it was like being pulled backwards off balance.
So I can vouch personally that its real (I also learnt some awesome locks that I still use today)
Ive never seen a no touch KO so won't comment on it, but in the clip where Dillman was trying to affect the skeptic guy, all I could think was, Meh just hit the points and wipe that smug look off his face.
Dillman's no mug, he looks silly in that clip but didn't it say he's 8th dan karate? Thats a lot of training.
Thats what I can't believe. Dillman is 8th Dan so he must have some skills. He really doesn't need to resort to this BS.
BTW I'm not disputing the pressure point stuff because we do some pressure point work and I love it. So simple yet effective. It's the no touch knock outs that I think is rubbbish.
Ahahaha, aw man, I just saw those vids. :D
I've never heard of this guy until now, but I wonder what the authenticity/lineage of his style/training is. After a brief online search it appears that he claims that he trained under Seiyu Oyata, but neither Oyata nor his associates have ever endorsed or sanctioned Dillman's Ryukyu Kempo. There appears to be a lack of evidence that Dillman ever received authentic training... especially when the Ryukyuan head branch flatly deny it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
I agree. Pressure points still require tactile contact too! For anyone who doubts the existence of pressure points, there's a very simply pressure point attack that is commonly used even in schoolyard and street brawls, or even accidentally in sports... and many of us have may have experienced it -- getting winded. I remember my Chen Tai Chi teacher demonstrating it once... all you need to do is fight the right point in the solar plexus, and push it. He did this with his thumb, and the person he demonstrated it down dropped down gasping for breath. The force applied to that point causes the diaphragm to spasm, which of course makes it difficulty to breathe. Now of course, in a real fight it's jolly hard to hit a pressure point with accuracy... so it's best just to aim at that general area with a large surface area, like your fist (instead of a finger tip). For instance, if you punch someone in the solar plexus, there's a fair chance that some part of your fist will impact on the exact pressure point that causes the diaphragm to spasm and wind the opponent. ;) But yeah, whether you're using finger tips or fists... either way you do need to touch someone to activate a pressure point! I remain an unbeliever in the idea of projecting invisible energy through the air at people. Unless you have extremely powerful farts (especially if they're silent but violent ;)) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
It was funny watching those guys make excuses for why their techniques didn't work on skeptics. :rolleyes: In comparison, I find a kick to the nards has a much higher chance of success considering:
+ It still works regardless of the opponent's tongue or toe positions!
+ 40% of the population are not susceptible to no-contact? (that's a lot btw) 100% of the male population are susceptible to being smashed in the groin!
+ Natural athletes are the toughest? So you'd better hope that if you get attacked by someone that they're not going to be physically fit! :rolleyes: Also... a kick to the nards still works on fit people. :)
You know what's really flawed about all these demonstrations? NONE of the participants are trying to fight back! They're all just standing there waiting for the attacker to expel energy at them! Cos in a real fight your attacker is totally gonna just stand there and let you do your voodoo! And even if it pushes you off balance... so what? The first thing you learn in martial arts is to stand in a solid stance; absorb the energy from the push (as you would from a physical attack)... or take another step out to catch your balance. Or do a breakfall and get up again. Losing your centre of balance isn't the end of the world. It's almost as if these guys are spending a lot of time and money trying to learn how to do something with their chi energy when you could achieve the same result from just tackling someone! :p (odds are the tackle would have a greater success rate... regardless of tongue misalignment ;))
Because its interesting. Well i find it interesting that i can be moved without being touched.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
In a "real fight" your going to do what your trained to do aren't you? Be it Grapple, Strike, Grab nuts if want, ok.
Thats what you train, be it forms, katas, sparring, MMA, Thats what your going to have when fighting.
Everyone knows your attacker isn't going to be compliant, and if you don't you will find out pretty smartly
I don't know much about Dillman either, but he was a karate national champion four times.
http://www.dillman.com/about.asp
Well that may be a cool parlour trick (for lack of a better word), but is it self defence/martial arts? I mean, there are people who can levitate themselves and walk in thin air without any wires or supports etc. (only they openly claim that they are illusionists - it's just that they won't tell you how their illusions are performed). Some people can make objects/people disappear or produce objects/people out of thin air. These are all really cool things, sure... but when you start teaching it as a martial art and give people that you're teaching the impression that it can be used in self defence, then there's an argument that you could be giving people dangerous false confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldschool78
I mean, if someone says, "Wanna see a cool trick? I bet I can move you without touching you." and that was effectively it... then fine. But to do the same thing and then say, "Now I'll teach it to you, and you can use it to protect yourself in real life from attackers," now that's potentially putting people's safety and lives in danger. Like that guy I mentioned before whom I used to train with who believes in this stuff... he absolutely believes that if someone were to try to hit him, that he could stop the attack just by projecting his chi energy. That's why the rest of us in that group just shook our heads in disbelief and always speculated about what would happen to this guy should he actually be viciously attacked IRL and he tried to defend himself with no touch. I'll tell you now, he'd get the crap beaten out of him!
The real problem I have hear isn't just that these people are mucking around with these tricks, but instilling people with the steadfast belief that learning these tricks can keep them safe and possibly save their lives in a self defence situation. Now I find this whole 'no touch push' thing highly dubious and I remain skeptical. You say you've experienced it... fine. But that's anecdotal hearsay testimonial from a single individual. It's not what would be acceptable as actual evidence from an academic POV.
There's a lot better research out there on how fights work, such as those conducted by Darren Laur and his studies into how fear affects fights, because in his research he actually established:
+ The independent variable: Augmenting standard riot police training with cyclical breathing/meditation training.
+ The controlled variable: one group of riot police did not undergo cyclical breathing/meditation training. There was no alteration to their standard riot squad training. They were the control sample.
+ The dependent variable: the study found that the 'test sample' (officers who underwent the breathing/meditation training) saw a massive improvement in their defensive skills as opposed to control sample who saw only a small/marginal improvement.
Conclusion: cyclical breathing/meditation (an element of traditional martial arts training) greatly increases one's ability to control fear and recall learned techniques in a highly stressful/frightening fight scenario.
What I've seen in these videos are merely these people performing these tricks on their own students -- who are unlikely to be skeptics and I have no idea what their previous martial arts training may be. If someone wants to gather dependable evidence on 'no touch' fighting, then they need to do a proper experiment like what Laur did with cyclical breathing/meditation. Also remember that a phenomenon needs to be dependably repeatable in order to demonstrate that it does work and it wasn't just a freak occurance. What these guys have done in these videos is establish confounding variables, i.e. "variables that the researcher failed to control, or eliminate, damaging the internal validity of an experiment." (reference)
And thus training should attempt to simulate such conditions. Which I'm not seeing in these videos (nor similar people that I've met IRL) who claim to be practising/teaching self defence. If there were NO claim of fight/self def applicability, then fine... I wouldn't object. I'd see it just as another "parlour trick" alongside all the cool stuff that magicians like David Copperfield or even Penn and Teller, who often tell the audience how their illusions are done and often go around debunking myths in their documentary series Penn & Teller: Bullsh!t! -- including one episode where they debunked martial arts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldschool78
In all seriousness, if someone wants to be able to defend themselves without touching an attacker there is a way. Carry pepper spray. :)
I agree with you Gok. These should not be taught as self defence. I know of a guy (I worked with his cousin) who had learnt self defence at a non touch McDojo and thought he was tough. He got confronted outside a club one night by three guys. Instead of trying to avoid or de-escalate the situation like we are taught (violence is the last measure) he believed he had the skills to take all 3 of these guys on. Short version basically this guy is now on a disability fund:( I'm not sure if there were any legal ramifications regarding the martial arts club he learnt at but I always thought they should of been liable in some way.
BTW I like in the second video how UFC fighter Stephan Bonnar is one of the guys that they try to knock out with chi energy. If I was the reporter I would say "Alright you tried to knock Bonnar out now lets see him try to knock you out":p See if his chi protects him then.
Look at the half moons!!!!!Pfffffft:p:p:p
Thats were I'm coming from too, its interesting stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Okay, you ready? This time I'm going to avoid saying anything negative or critical about tonight's GKR training. I'm only going to focus on the positive aspects! :)
We did some endurance training and resistance work at the beginning of the lesson. Then contact punching/blocking. No comment about the rest of the lesson.
The end. ;)
Just for some laughs, here are some martial arts memes. Most of these I found off the internet, so I didn't make them. But I couldn't find a meme for Kung Fu, so I made that one. :)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...artialarts.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...eme_aikido.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...s/meme_bjj.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...eme_boxing.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...eme_euroma.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...eme_karate.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...meme_kendo.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...eme_kungfu.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...s/meme_mma.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...eme_taichi.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...s/meme_tkd.jpg
I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO over those memes:mad: There is seriously one for everything. It is past the point of being funny.
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...rtrim/meme.jpg
This is more in my taste:)
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...rim/tapout.jpg
Aaah yes... the new martial arts fashion trend with TapOut shirts etc. My Chen Tai Chi teacher never enforced uniform, but even for students who chose to wear it, he always told us to never wear the uniform anywhere in public other than in class. If we were to travel straight from home to training and back again, then no probs with wearing the uniform. But if we were to make a pitstop at a supermarket or something, then he told us to either change out of it, or at least throw a jacket on top to hide the school logo (our uniform was otherwise just a white Tee-shirt/jumper with small crest and black track pants; so unless you see the logo it doesn't look like a martial arts uniform). The reasoning is that you just don't want to advertise to strangers that you do martial arts, because there are just some idiots out there who are looking for an excuse to make trouble, and seeing a MA uniform or logo may just be the trigger that makes them want to challenge you to a fight.
Thankfully the vast majority of martial artists I've met do the sensible thing and avoid wearing their uniforms outside of classes/events, but every now and then I see someone walking down the street or in a supermarket or shopping centre wearing a martial arts uniform or, more recently, martial arts "fashion." Yeah... it's all fun and games until some idiot calls your bluff and decides to "test" your skills in a fight. :rolleyes:
When I signed up for GKR, the sales rep gave me two GKR stickers and suggested that perhaps I could stick one on my car! :eek: Erm... no thanks. I see enough road rage every week without having to worry about some violent moron being provoked by some martial arts imagery on my car, thank you very much. :rolleyes: If anyone would like some free GKR stickers, LMK. :p And another thing about these martial arts fashion shops I see popping around; all their fashion is geared toward the commercialised fighting sport images, like TapOut etc.
Well watch out Gok. I'll be wearing a TapouT shirt tomorrow:p
Interesting. We have found that most adults drop out of our classes (be it karate, Muay Thai or MMA) because they can't handle the pace or the pain. They think they are fit and strong but as soon as they get a sprained finger, a shot to a pressure point or even a hard kick through a pad they freak out. The usual response is "I didn't sign up for this" I always get puzzled when I hear that. You do realise this is a martial arts academy right? My belief is a good martial arts session should be like a game of footy. After it you should feel sore but not hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Chi Energy Pawaaaaaaah!! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
LMAO:DQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Yet another counter-intuitive lesson. :/ I'm not sure if this Sensei knows what she's doing... because a lot of times she tries to teach us something, she has to stop and think -- struggling to remember what she wanted to show us. Then when she remembers, she has to stop and think again, struggling to remember how the move goes. Then she teaches us to do something, and sometimes realises that she's just taught us wrong and shows us a whole new way which is supposedly right, but she doesn't sound too sure. This doesn't happen once in a while, it happens almost every lesson.
And I'm talking about really _really_ basic stuff. Like which leg to step forward and which arm to punch with, which arm/leg to step back and block with... nothing at all complicated... and she's a black belt Sensei who's struggling to recall these techniques and teach them to us. Like... she'll pause and you can literally see her eyes rolling up while she thinks hard to remember. W h a t ? ? :eek: This is a clear sign that she herself hasn't even learnt these moves properly because if she had, then she should be able to execute them instinctively/reflexively ... she might struggle with how to articulate an explanation, but she should be able to do it without having to think about it.
It doesn't matter if it's martial arts or mathematics or languages or whatever the subject matter is. If you still need to consciously think to recall knowledge, then you haven't really learnt it. There's no deep knowledge, only superficial understanding... which is - surprise surprise - what you usually get with rote teaching/learning! That's why educators try to avoid using rote as much as possible in preference of associative learning! In the context of martial arts, associative learning would be learning through application and usage. Which we never really do. And I can actually feel that my GKR training is actually making my skills worse; especially in sparring. Because of the no contact thing, I just don't bother even trying to block most hits... because I'm not going to block something that isn't going to contact me - because if it's not going to contact me, then it's not a threat! This in turn is making me lower my guard... a lot. Basically, I'm actually picking up some bad habits from GKR training which, rather than enhancing my fighting skills, is actually making me worse. :(
Before sparring we did partner work. I got partnered up with the dude who's done another style of Karate before GKR... and he was equally confused by a lot of Sensei's instructions. Like Sensei wanted everyone to practice attacking and blocking from the same side over and over and over again, whereas my partner and I both come from a MA background where we've NEVER done this before... we're used to either having our partners alternate left and right sides, which is we were doing instinctively before we paused and realised that nobody else was doing it; or random side alternation.
There's nothing random in GKR. No surprises. Even in sparring everything's so rigidly controlled and sanitised. And if you do anything surprising - people freak out (like contact). :rolleyes: My partners did NOT like to be grabbed -- despite the fact that we practice it in basics and partnerwork (mawashi uke). And all I was doing was grappling wrists and forearms... that's it. Again... I'd reeeaaally love to see a BJJ fighter come into our Dojo sometime and spar with these guys. ;)
After my first spar, I was puffed out because I was trying to push myself. Sensei told me I was going too fast and too hard, and that's why I was puffed out, and told me to slow down and take it easier. Not really -- I was puffed out because I'm unfit! I'm not going to make up excuses for myself... nor am I going to necessarily "soften up" my training because of it. If anything, I need to push myself harder.
Another sparring partner kept moving around with two massive flaws (aside from not reaching in to contact me):
(1) He oftened leaned backward in his stances - something that Sensei had corrected him on when we did basics. I noticed he was doing this during sparring, so I charged at him and placed my left hand on his sternum while I pushed him backward. Not forceful enough to make him fall backwards, but enough for him to back pedal. I wanted to show him _why_ it was important to keep an upright posture. Then Sensei told me no contact -- then she told my partner not to lean backward. I told Sensei that I was trying to show him this... she said that he's still learning. Umm... yes... that's why I was trying to help him learn this by directly letting him feel why leaning backward made him off balance. All Sensei ever does is verbally tell you why you're doing something wrong and show you the correct method, but NEVER allowing you to experience a mistake. We learn from our mistakes. I'm hoping that after I pushed him backward, this guy is reflecting and thinking, "Oh right, I see why leaning back is bad now." But I doubt it. This guy's more concerned about maintaining rules rather than actually learning anything useful for self defence. :rolleyes:
(2) Groin w i d e open! I kept telling him over and over and over again, "Your groin's open." "Cover your groin." -- and I'm trying my best not to hit him in the groin, but a couple of times I had some near misses and I kept reminding him that his groin was open. I honestly lost count of how many times I told him this... then the inevitable happened, and my foot made contact with his janglies. Thankfully it was only a light tap... but as every guy knows, even a light tap to the nads really hurts. I didn't mean to hit him there -- again, when sparring you're just operating on automatic. My partner did admit he wasn't wearing a groin guard when he should have been (Sensei did tell everyone to put one on), but was quick to remind me that it's "no contact." I did apologise for hurting him, but reminded him that he should be keeping his groin covered. But he wasn't hurt too badly - it was a light tap and he recovered after a few excruciating seconds and we continued sparring.
There's just way too many counter-intuitive rules in GKR sparring for my liking... and even one of the brown belt double-black tip students has often told me that he finds it incredibly frustrating too. He told me after class that if I were to spar him, he wouldn't mind if I tried to grab him, but advised that I don't do it with the other students, especially anyone below brown belt.
One funny thing was, when I put my partner in a solid arm grapple, he quickly said "no grabbing," and I said, "Okay, but how would you get out of that grab?" and he said, "There's no grabbing until brown belt," and I said, "Alright, but would you like to know how to get out of that grab?" -- he thought for a while and then hesitantly asked, "How?", so then I showed him and then he thanked me. :)
And here's the other thing about the students at this GKR Dojo... none of them are encouraged to think creatively, critically or analytically. They're just taught to follow what Sensei teaches -- parrot rote learning. There's no real problem solving. How can there be when everything's so rigidly structured with no randomness and a highly sanitised system of sparring? When you pull an unexpected move on these students, they don't cope with it. They'll either ignore it, or tell you not to do it.
At my Chen Tai Chi school, we welcomed new and surprising moves. We were always encouraged to look at them and think, "Now how would I counter that?" Sometimes when people come in and show us new stuff we do experiment and think of ways to counter these new moves. We didn't shirk away from the unexpected - we welcomed it.
So... what are people's thoughts on what I should do at this point? Should I:
+ Finish the 3 month trial period and continue to pay $10 per weekly lesson? That way I can at least say that I gave GKR the full set trial period. Though honestly, it's been over a month and nothing's impressed me. Other good schools I've seen have impressed me after a single lesson.
+ Speak to Sensei or the Regional Director or the Sales Rep about my concerns (especially considering that the Sales Rep assured me that GKR was useful for self defence). I'm a bit hesitant in speaking to my Friday night Sensei as she's not incredibly receptive to criticism and tends to treat adult students as if they're children.
+ Just quit now and save myself future angst and money from training in such a detrimental and ineffectual learning environment.
...any advice?
Oh, and one thing that Sensei often tells us: "Remember this is Karate, so no contact." That's right, she's telling people that Karate is non-contact. Not GKR, but Karate itself. :eek:
I don't know if talking to the regional manager, sales rep will achieve anything Gok. I think it's pretty clear GKR isn't doing what you had hoped or expected. I'd move onto another school if I were you.
On the competitive front the UFC PPV today featured all heavyweights. I don't if it was the cardio on the losers (Heavyweights cardio is often called into question in the UFC) or the striking power of the winners or a combination of both but the main card featured 5 fights lasting a total of 21minutes and 50 seconds. There were some great knockouts though.:D
Yeah i'd suggest you finish your three months and move on, hopefully you have a more 'empty cup' next experience you have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
I'm willing to accept differences, but I have my standards and I'm not about to alter them to make something seem more appealing to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
We're often discerning when we appraise or review toys, cartoons, movies and comic books. Similarly I'm discerning when appraising martial arts classes - especially considering that my primary motivation is self defence, as my safety or life may very well depend on the training. Dubious or false claims of teaching self defence can be very dangerous, as illustrated by Bartrim's example of that guy who's now claiming a disability fund.
i understand your stance, but i don't think they are making false claims to be teaching self defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
How do you know that? Have you seen my Dojo? From everything I've seen and experienced at my Dojos, it's counter intuitive to teaching self defence. In fact, it's counter intuitive to good teaching because it's based on rote rather than associative engaged and critical pedagogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
I mean, I personally find Tai Chi to be a good and comprehensive fighting system. But I also know that not all schools teach it that way -- many don't. And quite frankly, unless I've seen a particular school or seen a demonstration from someone from that school, then it's difficult for me to make any judgment about it. I'm not saying that all GKR schools are making dubious claims about teaching self defence, but IMO the GKR schools in my local area have rather questionable practises when it comes to self def. And that's based on my own first hand experience with these schools. I'm not commenting about your GKR school or any other school that I haven't had contact with.
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Every Thursday before class there is black belt club for senior students. I am the only one who attends on Thursdays so it's like a private lesson which is cool. Because it was so fricking cold last Thursday after we warmed up Sensei asked if I just wanted to spar for the lesson. I love sparring so I said sure. After a few rounds he decided that he wanted to do the final round bare knuckle. I am so sore but I am a glutton for punishment and I loved it. I have some massive bruises on my arms and my left leg. One thing I noticed, bare knuckle exposes a lot more gaps then when you wear gloves. I caught my sensei with a cracking shot to the ribs at one point. Probably the best shot I have ever hit him with.
nice! how are your hands after this session?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
Yeah fine. I actually hurt my wrist more in the lesson afterwards mis-timing a left hook on some Muay Thai pads.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
I more mean damage to your fistsQuote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
Fists are fine. We do do a lot of punching work so my fists are fine. I've split my knuckles on pads plenty of time so my fists are quite well conditioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
awesome :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
I don't know if you guys have seen or used these, but you can actually get focus pads which have purposely strengthened surfaces which sting and condition your knuckles -- some of them actually have a thin layer of ply wood underneat the padding! :eek: My personal focus pads at home are made from this kind of really thick material that delivers a mild sting when you punch them. It's not enough to really hurt or anything, but it does strengthen your knuckles after you get used to them. ;) Of course, you can always use Thai pads too. :D
yup, very common in karate its called a makiwara board.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Yeah yeah, same concept, but more modern execution. :) Traditional makiwara are attached to stationary posts, whereas what I'm talking about are modern focus pads/mitts that have toughened striking surfaces that's not as cushiony soft as regular focus pads and they deliver a slight stinging sensation to the knuckles when you punch them. My Chen Tai Chi teacher had a set of focus pads that were leather, and inside was a layer of soft material, but under that was a layer of wood.
I've yet to make contact with _anything_ in my GKR training so far. I don't know if my Senseis even bring focus pads, shields or bags to training (if they do, I've never seen them in use). I asked one of the more senior students if we ever do padwork, and he said rarely. :(