Martial arts discussion thread

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

But the knockout shot wouldn't of hurt a fly.

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Seemingly simple hits can be deceptively devastating, especially with brain damage/head trauma. When Samurai were disbanded during the Meiji Period, many former Samurai - now forbidden to carry metal swords - actually scored more kills using wooden swords (bokken/bokuto). This was because when they used metal swords they would often dismember their opponents, but leave them alive (albeit as amputees), whereas seemingly "less harmful" hits with bokken often dealt lethal internal damage.

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

I agree there is honour in disgracing a defeated opponent but their is no honour in taking a dive either.

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gah, this is my fault... I should never had mentioned "honour" because there's no such thing as "honour" in a real fight. My bad.

In a real fight, the best moves are the ones that stop the fight and keep you alive - and if that move happens to be running away or surrendering, then so be it. The first thing any proper martial arts teacher should teach their students is how to run away. All the techniques we learn should be used if:
1/ Your attacker is obstructing your exit, in which case you engage them in a fight long enough before gaining the opportunity to flee (e.g. blocking a hit then shoving them out of the way and legging it)
2/ If retreat or surrender is not an option

So again, from a martial arts POV, if taking a dive or surrendering terminates the fight - then it's the right thing to do. Of course, sport fighting creates an artificial and unrealistic fight environment. If you don't want to fight, then just surrender to your attacker's demands (e.g. give them your money) or leg it. If you have to fight then just taking a dive will just make things worse for you (cos they'll just kick you while you're down -- the best time to kick someone is while they're down!! :D).

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Seemingly simple hits can be deceptively devastating, especially with brain damage/head trauma. When Samurai were disbanded during the Meiji Period, many former Samurai - now forbidden to carry metal swords - actually scored more kills using wooden swords (bokken/bokuto). This was because when they used metal swords they would often dismember their opponents, but leave them alive (albeit as amputees), whereas seemingly "less harmful" hits with bokken often dealt lethal internal damage.

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But we aren't talking about Samurai killing people here. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has boxing experience on the forum and I can tell you that shot by Green wouldn't of knocked me out. I put this in this thread as I didn't think it deserved it's own thread. So from a competitive fighting point of view that fight was a farce.

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has boxing experience on the forum and I can tell you that shot by Green wouldn't of knocked me out. I put this in this thread as I didn't think it deserved it's own thread. So from a competitive fighting point of view that fight was a farce.

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From a sport fighting POV I agree.

TBH this thread is just called the "Martial Arts Discussion Thread", and there are different kinds of martial arts, which I see as:
+ Traditional (used for fighting, self defence)
+ Sport (used for competitive sport fighting)
+ Health (used purely for maintaining fitness/health, e.g. non-combative Tai Chi)

While my personal preference is for traditional martial arts - and up till now it has been the predominant focus of this thread - I've never specifically stated that this thread was exclusively for traditional martial arts. So I think it's only fair that all kinds of fighting/martial arts be accepted here, as it wouldn't be fair for me to allow my personal bias to stop other people from talking about other kinds of fighting arts. :)

And there have been some genuinely good fighters produced from non-traditional arts. I've often said that we could take Bruce Lee and Mohammed Ali in their primes and stick them in a cage, I'd put my money on Ali. Bruce Lee was a rather ordinary fighter whereas Mohammed Ali was exceptional - and ironically had a better understanding of Yin and Yang than a lot of martial artists I've seen. Ali knew how to combine being hard and soft and how to execute it into a connective flow, or as he called it, "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee."

Oh yeah, other kinds of martial arts I neglected to mention include:
+ Dance/performance martial arts, e.g. Capoeira, Modern Wushu etc.
+ Historical martial arts - by this I mean martial arts primarily studied for historical reasons and unlike other traditional martial arts, aren't appliable for modern day civilian self defence. e.g. Spanish Rapier Brawling, European Broadsword, Kenjutsu, Kobudo, Kyudo etc. Sports that have evolved from historical weapon arts (e.g. fencing, modern archery etc.) should fall under the "Sport" category.

Again, while these aren't necessarily my cups of tea, I would accept discussions about any of these sorts of martial arts here. :)

Just about to go to first martial arts lesson at the local KRMAS dojo

http://www.kumiai-ryu.com.au/mainpage.html

I'm pretty nervous:o

I've never heard of Kumiai ryu before. Could you ask for some information about the style's lineage/history? According to the web site it seems to be a blend of various different martial arts and martial sports. I punched "Kumiai ryu" into Google but I couldn't find much information about it (other than from their site and local business listings - I can't find any independent sources of information; I couldn't find anything about Kumiai on Wikipedia).

Without having seen this school or style, I really can't comment about it. But my advice would just be mindful of the old saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none." But anyway, I hope it all goes well -- at the end of the day, as long as you enjoy it and the system works for you then it's all good. :) Your body will probably be pretty sore for a while now. ;)

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

I've never heard of Kumiai ryu before. Could you ask for some information about the style's lineage/history? According to the web site it seems to be a blend of various different martial arts and martial sports. I punched "Kumiai ryu" into Google but I couldn't find much information about it (other than from their site and local business listings - I can't find any independent sources of information; I couldn't find anything about Kumiai on Wikipedia).

Without having seen this school or style, I really can't comment about it. But my advice would just be mindful of the old saying, "Jack of all trades, master of none." But anyway, I hope it all goes well -- at the end of the day, as long as you enjoy it and the system works for you then it's all good. :) Your body will probably be pretty sore for a while now. ;)

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Hell yes I'm sore today:p but I enjoyed myself and I'll be going back for more.

It is mainly okinawan karate (I think... sorry I'm only very new at this) but incorporates other martial arts to provide practical self defence techniques. I would like to study a set discipline but given my location my opitions are restricted. (ie: this is the only martial arts class in Ulladulla)

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

It is mainly okinawan karate (I think... sorry I'm only very new at this) but incorporates other martial arts to provide practical self defence techniques.

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There are numerous different styles of Okinawan Karate e.g. Gojuryu, Uechiryu etc. I tried Googling for Kumiairyu in Japanese with Google Japan, but I just found results relating to football (soccer)! (O_O)

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

I would like to study a set discipline but given my location my opitions are restricted. (ie: this is the only martial arts class in Ulladulla)

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Yeah fair enough. :)

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

There are numerous different styles of Okinawan Karate e.g. Gojuryu, Uechiryu etc.

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You forgot to mention the original style of Karate, Okinawa-Te. :p


If anyone is considering studying Go-Kan-Ryu Karate, don't. It's a useless style with a ridiculously limited arsenal. Took one lesson a couple of years back and regret wasting my time with it.

I once sparred with a GKR Black Belt 3rd Dan (note: I'm not an advanced fighter - anyone who's met me or even seen a photo of me can easily see that I'm not the most athletic person in the world) and I managed to defeat him. Turns out he wasn't wearing a cup! ;)

But before we all start ganging up on GKR, I will say that it is an alright style to choose if you've never done any kind of martial art or sport before (and are effectively unco). GKR is pretty good at teaching you the bare basics of fighting, like stances, punching, kicking etc. GKR's basics are decent. But in my observation I find that beyond the beginner's level it's not an impressive style. I would recommend Gokanryu to someone who had no prior martial arts or sport experience and also had difficulty with coordination or the gross motor skills required to master the basic movements in martial arts. I've encountered two people who had really poor coordination and physical skills and struggled with the basics of Muay Thai and Kung Fu - and IMO they would've been better off with something simpler like GKR.

So IMHO I think GKR can be a good preliminary style for people who may be experiencing difficulty breaking into more complicated forms of martial arts... but after mastering GKR basics I'd probably recommend changing to something else.

Gokanryu is the most popular martial art in Australia. It's also an Australian style of Karate and NOT a traditional style from Japan (let alone Okinawa). I remember once visiting a Gojukai Karate Dojo in Japan and - at the time not knowing that GKR was Australian - asked them if the knew about Gokanryu. The answer was, "What's Gokanryu??" ;)

I suspect that Kumiairyu may also be a non-traditional Australian (or Western) made style too cos I've never heard of it and I can't find any independent information about it. But I could be wrong... maybe it's just a really obscure style (like Goroquan* Kung Fu - the direct ancestor of Okinawan Karate... it's freaking hard to find any information about that style!)

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*The Chinese characters (Kanji) for Goroquan is pronounced as "Goujuuken" in Japanese; 剛柔拳 :) I've never seen Goroquan IRL, never seen any videos -- saw one grainy black and white photo in an article once. The closest forerunner to Karate I've personally witnessed is Wuzuquan (Five Ancestors Fist); also a Fujian style of Kung Fu like Goroquan, but _much_ easier to find! One distinguishing characteristic of Fujian Kung Fu is the "Sam Chiem" (三戦) stance and form, which of course is called "Sanchin" by the Okinawans.