when i was actively teaching gkr classes i used to bring in a variety of pads and shields in regularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
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when i was actively teaching gkr classes i used to bring in a variety of pads and shields in regularly.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/m...trim/photo.jpg
Been a week since the bare knuckle sparring. Still have the marks.
Hirudoid Cream is your friend. ;) :)
...Or he could just man-up and grow a set ;) :pQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Just need a spoonful of concrete:pQuote:
Originally Posted by 5FDP
At least you guys have contact... <jelly> :(
At last week's training all the white belts had to do distanced no touch sparring. I k i d y o u n o t (though I wish I were). We were all paired off in front of a partner, then we had to stand like two metres apart and not come any closer!! :eek: Then "spar." i.e. if someone throws an attack, we're meant to defend against it. Everyone just treated it as one big joke -- because nobody knew when they should block or dodge or anything. Like I'd throw a combination attack, and my partner would usually either just "take" the hits or block too late. And if I "grabbed" them, they would completely ignore it. Hits to the groin, takedowns... nothing registered because we were standing so far away from each other! Half the people couldn't stop giggling and laughing at the activity. I tried to take it seriously and gave it my best effort... but it felt completely pointless. I'd rather do endless kata rote drills than distanced no touch sparring. (-_-)
Then afterwards we played this game where the colour belts have to grab the white belts and bring them over to the far end of the hall where there are these steps, and if you touch the steps, you lose. It took 2 guys (3 at one stage) a long time to take me down - even then because they were just ignore a lot of my attacks, like when I tapped my attacker's face/throat, or grabbed the fabric part of the trousers just below the groin (i.e. simulating crushing their janglies) -- they just ignored it and kept wrestling with me. But in the end it took 2 senior students to take me down, and even then I used scissor legs to take one of them down with me and continued ground-fighting, but the guy tapped out, so I released him. ;) Later one of them apologised to me for "cheating," but I told him it was cool -- because people do cheat in real fights. Cheating's awesome! :D I like it when my attackers are cheap, because it makes me work harder at trying to defend myself against their cheap attacks, which are always the best attacks. :)
Btw, I'm going to Thursday classes now instead of Fridays. They seem to have a slightly better attitude toward self defence than the people at the Friday Dojo (especially the Sensei, whom I've had interesting discussions with), although Sensei admits that while GKR is capable of self defence, it's rarely the focus of their training. :( But one thing I prefer about Friday's class is that they have separate children's and adult classes -- the Thursday Dojo combines them together... and makes adults and children work together as if they're equals, which I find frustrating. Like half the people I was No Touch Sparring against were kids... one of them was so small I had to get down on my knees (I didn't even bother trying to "attack" him, I just "defended" with one hand). So there are some parts of Thu's training that I prefer, but some parts that I don't.
The No Touch Sparring thing is just ridiculous... aside from really not equipping you with any skills (no more than doing just basics against thin air, which you might as well be doing - in theory students are meant to react to their opponent moving, but reality it doesn't happen (at least not properly) because there's never any threat of them coming in range or ever touching you)), it's potentially dangerous in giving students (especially the children) false confidence in believing that they can defend themselves. (-_-) I told the Thu Sensei that I have sparred before in the Fri classes and I do bring sparring gear with me, but I was told that they never let White Belts spar because of insurance/safety reasons... fair enough... but again, I'd rather be doing katas or basics than this George Dillman inspired form of fighting! :eek:
http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n...m/Hadouken.gif
heheQuote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
So we had a grading yesterday as it was the end of a turn. I am unable to grade until the end of the year as I will be going for my first brown belt. Even though I couldn't grade I participated then the training anyway and got to meet formally (He was at our grand opening but never officially met him) Shihan Rob Williams. We always have guest instructors from other KRMAS academies come to gradings but I consider myself lucky that it was him who came to our grading yesterday. As well as being the Australian National Sanda coach he also owns the Lithgow academy where I will be grading at the end of the year. Got to go to dinner with him and my sensei and he gave me some valuable insight to the path to black belt and the journey afterwards.
very cool dudeQuote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
They say that black belt is when the real training begins (everything before then is prelim). Do you guys actually incorporate Sanda techniques in your Karate training? (or does is it taught separately?). For anyone reading this who may not know, Sanda (aka Sanshou) is a modern Chinese martial sport. I must admit that Sanda has produced some very impressive fighters, particularly Cung Le... I'm quite impressed at his ability to connect hits and make combos flow from that. He's also quite good at just flooring his opponents in as few moves as possible. :) Which is precisely how one should aim to fight in a self defence scenario -- that "This ends NOW!" mentality (or as Karate calls it, "One hit one kill") :D I've personally never tried Sanda myself, so I can't really comment much more about it.
He basically said the same thing. Once you get your black belt the world of martial arts opens up to you and then the real training begins. Yes we do incorporate some Sanda techniques into our class. Mainly the sweeps, throws and kick catching work as our striking is mainly karate with a bit of our Muay Thai syllabus incorporated.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
One thing that did catch me off guard in our dinner conversation was when Shihan Rob said he likes that I do karate (our school offers 3 seperate classes, karate, Muay Thai and MMA). He said he hates the fakers that take the MMA classes thinking they are going to be the next ultimate fighter. He said by me taking karate it shows I take my martial arts seriously and he respects that.
I am quite surprised that you know who Cung Le is Gok. I thought you weren't a fan of competitive martial arts.
You're right, and I won't deny that I'm not a fan of competition fighting, but even I must admit that Cung Le has amazing fight skills that puts some traditional martial artists to shame. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
I enjoy competitive fighting and cung le :pQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Same:) It's a shame he fights in a different weight class to Lyoto Machida... That would be an awesome fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
I'll fight him :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
We were going through kicks in tonight's class, one of the new guys asked how to block a roundhouse kick, and Sensei showed us a block that we (white belts) have never learnt before. One of the red belts recommended that we could use Gedan-Barai, which is probably what I would've said too considering the exceeding limited repertoire that we've been taught, but Sensei disagreed. IMO neither the block she showed or the Gedan are better or worse than the other... and really, kicks are better off being blocked with legs than hands/arms (which you would use only if the kick's come in too fast for you to get your leg up in time - so arm blocks against kicks are still useful IMO as a backup). I was talking to that red belt later and asked him if he's ever been kicked by someone with a massively powerful roundhouse kick (like say, a lot of Muay Thai fighters)... cos blocking those with your arms would cane! :o (even blocking them with your legs hurts, but I'd hate to imagine how painful they'd be to block with arms!)
GKR kicks are similar to Tai Chi kicks insofar that the knee is lifted first before doing the kick, which sacrifices power, but gains greater manoeuvreability and versatility. Other fighters launch their kicks straight from the ground without lifting the knee first. While they sacrifice manoeuvreability and versatility, they gain massive power! XO Although I must say that one significant difference w/ the GKR roundhouse kick is that the knee is lifted up to the side instead of in front like with a front, side and back kick (in Tai Chi we lift to the front, same as every other kick). I can see that this is to help give the roundhouse kick more power, but damn it _completely_ opens the groin!! :eek: If you wanna generate more power, I reckon you're better off just launching the kick straight off from the ground and forget about the knee lift. Lifting it off to the side when kicking straight ahead kinda defeats the versatility advantage since you're exposing yourself anyway. :o
Sensei then asked if there were any other questions, and I asked what the defence is against someone who grabs your kicking leg. Sensei's response said that it would never happen because grabbing is against the rules in GKR. So I said, but what about in self defence? Sensei then said that our kicks just need to be faster than the opponent's grab... but I think she quickly realised that it wasn't a very good answer (because the obvious next question would've been "But what if they do grab you?!") - which was on everyone's face. So she paused and thought for a while, then asked one of the senior students to grab her leg and she tried to get out of it... but couldn't. So she told us that there you can't get out if someone grabs your kicking leg. :eek: :eek: :eek: Again... good luck fighting a grappler, guys. :rolleyes: Heck, even people who do Wrestling (like the kind they do at the Olympics) will grab your legs! I once sparred against a wrestler who dived at my ankles and grabbed both of them and quickly lifted them up over my head before jumping on me -- I had to go into breakfall and use ground-fighting techniques against him because I'd completely lost my footing.
Anyway, I politely asked Sensei if I could show them something, and I asked the senior student to grab my leg, and just showed them a very simple technique where you just shift your weight forward into the leg that's being held (i.e. so that the person holding your leg ends up bearing your entire body weight), and of course with elbows bearing forward as you do. I told Sensei that I wanted to know what GKR's counter to a leg grab was, which was the initial purpose of my question - and she understood that and said that she'll get back to me next week with an answer.
Anyway, next week's the last week of my trial period. Unless something amazing happens then that impresses me and convinces me to continue with GKR in my area, I'm likely to look elsewhere for a more effectual place to learn self defence. There's a BJJ school not far from me that I might have a look at.
That is very odd as to an adult a Gedan-Barai should be taught on you very first day as it is fundamental. I disagree with using the legs to block any more than to 'check a kick. The sweeping blocks (gedan) and exceptionally good for blocking direct straight-line kicks such as a front kick as it required little power and easy control to deflect a kick. round kicks are a bit different as the target area can vary from calf to head to saying one block it better than the other is void.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Using hands9arms) as a back up block for kicks is Like icing a cake before you cook it, karate and kick-boxing a two different beast and should be viewed so. Blocking with the arm is much more efficient than the leg as its faster and uses less energy, this being that the correct block is used for the correct circumstance using the correct technique. Plus how can you block a head kick with your leg?
As for the power argument. It's the same as blocking, regardless of preparation position the technique must be correct or it doesn't matter if you kick from ground up or knee first. For example a club kick from muay thai is from the ground, where a round kick in karate is from the knee. That being said in gkr you get taught the side (groin exposing) prep to create muscle memory for correct hip activation during the kick, but in application the kick is almost a hybrid of knee and ground preps, it almost comes up on an angle. Think of the knee like a baseball pitchers arm, it determines the direction. Even though the Roundkick with said preparation seems weak its not, ONLY if correct hip and core activation is used.
It was. So I was surprised that it wasn't taught as an application to counter a kick - rather we were shown a block that we'd never been taught before. That's rather counter-intuitive from a teaching-learning POV.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
We'll have to agree to disagree on that. At the end of the day, the best block is the block that works for you. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
Sure, but remember that in a fight you're gonna have no idea what kind of fighting technique your opponent has been trained in. They could use a knee-lift first kick, or a straight-from-ground kick... you won't know until the kick's already launched. Thus it's useful to be prepared for all kinds of kicks. If your method of blocking is effectual against all kinds of kicks, then thumbs up to you. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
I agree, but leg blocks can work well if you can anticipate the kick early enough to get your leg up. If not, then yes, arm blocks would be the way to go - hence why I prefer using them as back-ups when the kicks are too fast for me to get my leg up to block. And I find that knee-lift kicks are harder to predict because you see the knee come up, but it could then morph into a front kick or roundhouse or side kick etc., which gives you less time to pre-empt, so more often I'm using arm blocks against knee-up kicks. When I've sparred with people who do off-ground kicks, I find them easier to predict because you just see the kick coming from ages away, and thus I'm more likely to have enough time to get my knee up and block it with my leg. Another advantage of leg blocks is that straight after the block you can step right through the opponent's centre of mass, which can be a good lead in for a grapple or throw or just generally getting them off balance. Simply blocking without closing in gives them the opportunity to kick you a second time.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
That's true. I'd block it with an arm. Of course, in traditional martial arts we never kick the head because that just opens the groin (if I wanna hit the head, I'll punch/elbow/headbutt it!). If someone were to do a head kick at me, if the kick was too fast, then I'd block it like a roundhouse punch or "cage" myself with my arm. If I'm able to react fast enough, then I'd get under that leg and attack the groin. Or I can do both (i.e. block/grab the leg, then pull them in to grab the janglies).Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
The problem with this technique though is that it gets students into a habit of lifting their knee up to the side and exposing their groin before delivering a round kick. If, as you say, the actual application is different from this, then why not simply teach the kick closer to how it is applied in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
Also, allow me to clarify - when I said that knee-lift kicks sacrifice power, I didn't mean to say that they have no power or that they're weak. Knee-lift kicks, when done correctly, ARE very powerful indeed! :D "Sacrificing power" probably wasn't the right choice of words -- it's possibly more accurate to say that off-ground kicks generate power through the use of sheer force (due to the wider swings), whereas knee-up kicks rely more on rotational energy/torsion to build power. Off-ground kicks are easier to do because you just swing your leg up like a club - knee-up kicks are more technical, but you're right in that they can generate just as much energy (just in a different manner) -- and knee-up kicks have the added advantage of greater manoeuvrability and versatility. :D
On a completely different matter, Sensei calls the Sanchindachi the "hourglass stance," but for some reason one of the senior students didn't like this and kept correcting her and insisting that it's called "pigeon toe stance" and that the correct translation is pigeon toe stance not hourglass stance. :rolleyes: Actually, neither of them are correct -- Sanchindachi translates as "Three Battles stance" (Sanchin is derived from the Chinese word "Sam Chiem"(三戦)). Quite frankly, I don't care if someone wants to call it the pigeon toe stance or the hour glass stance or the "I really need to pee!" stance. :p Just as long as everyone in the class knows what the teacher means and does it correctly.
Later when I was training with that senior student who was going through stances with us, and again tried to tell us that the 'correct pronunciation' was "pigeon toed" stance, I corrected him and told him that it actually means "three battles stance." He then said, "Oh yeah, that's right, a friend of mine once told me that," then proceeded to keep calling it pigeon toed stance for the rest of the exercise. Again, I don't have a problem with this... but I just thought it was kinda odd that he finds it okay to give this stance an arbitrary name that's not a direct translation, but Sensei can't?? :confused: Righteo then. :rolleyes:
I'm returning to Judo soon :)
Awesome:)Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
I hope Anderson Silva whoops Chael Sonnen this arvo
how's your training been dude?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
Haven't trained in 2 weeks because of the flu. I'm going back tomorrow. Gotta get stuck into it if I'm going to grade to brown/white belt at the end of the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
good goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
Got a new judo gi as my old one is a little tight. Gym will do that lol
I used to wear a Judogi when I did Aikido. Nice and heavy and makes you sweat like a roast pig in summer! XO
Class on Monday Night was incredibly hard. We had a week off for school holidays and normally first classback is easy. It wasn't and I'm not just saying that as I hadnt done any exercise in 2 weeks because I had the flu. It was grueling. I've always trained with the belief of work within your limits. I push myself hard but know when to ease back. Alot of people don't and we had a girl spew. I was one of only two people with sparring gear. The other was another instructor who is very tough. I can usually spar 1-2 rounds against Rob but that's when we rotate. With no rotation of sparrers I got worked over pretty hard.
Well, tonight was officially the end of my 3 month trial period at GKR.
glad to know you are back at it bro :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
so what are you doing now?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Undecided atm. My work schedule doesn't allow me to resume Yang Tai Chi training until October -- I hope. :rolleyes: However one of my Senseis has said that s/he's happy to have be continue coming to class even if I don't ever upgrade my membership. S/he said that it's up to the GKR organisation to chase me up for that membership upgrade fee, but s/he's not going to do it for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by KalEl
So it seems my options are:
+ Look for another martial arts school
+ Continue GKR
+ Just train privately (and save my time/money - especially if the schools I'm finding aren't teaching anything of value to me)
I was kinda thinking about trying BJJ, but last week I spoke to this guy, he's a 3rd dan in traditional Okinawan Karate, and he told me that BJJ is also geared toward competition fighting rather than combative/self defensive fighting. He told me that he once had a BJJ guy come to his Dojo and put him in a headlock. He asked the BJJ guy if he had finished the lock, and he said yes. He then dropped back into a Zenkutsudachi and slammed a downward "hammer punch" into the BJJ guy's groin. And I must say that when I used to train with MMA guys who mucked around with BJJ, I encountered similar things -- like when they pinned me from on top, I could really easily just slide my hands down their front and yank their nads off if I wanted to.
But I've personally only ever done BJJ in 'mixed' martial arts schools -- I've never done it in a full proper BJJ Dojo, so I'm wondering if training in a "pure" BJJ dojo would be any better than training in say schools that teach other martial arts or MMA that happen to mix in BJJ with their training. <shrug>
Last week I spoke to a woman who was doing fundraising to send her son to Japan for a Karate championship thing, and she was telling me how her son is now coming to the realisation that his Karate club is all about making money and not about teaching people how to fight. She said that he's been to Japan before for Karate training, and it was over there when he trained in a traditional style's dojo that he realised that his school here is a McDojo. She said that the school in Japan he trained in only had one belt - black. At first I was surprised, then I stopped and thought about it... but that does actually sound really traditional! Well, not the black belt (coloured belts are no more ancient and traditional than the modern airplane or automobile ;)), but of course the concept of not having grades. If they start from black belt, it must mean they're starting from Shodan... which makes perfect sense since "shodan" literally means "beginner's level" and is the traditional point to begin Karate training. All the other levels preceding that have only existed since the 20th Century. It was really refreshing to hear that there are still authentic Karate schools that exist out there. :) Reminds me of my old Chen Tai Chi school.
But trying to find authentic martial arts schools like that in my area atm has been... challenging. My quest continues. The lady I spoke to said that she and her son have also been looking for a better Karate school, they said that they've found one that's better than the previous one he was training at - though still not as authentic as the one he trained with in Japan.
I guess the reality is that authentic martial art schools just don't make as much money as the more 'modern' martial arts schools. Even my Chen Tai Chi teacher never made that much money out of his classes - often taught out of his backyard and usually you could count the number of students who turned up on one hand. As disappointing as I've found traditional schools to be, there's no denying that they do rake in a LOT of money. But I wonder where all that money goes to. It doesn't seem to be reinvested back into the school. Because as small-scale as the Chen Tai Chi school that I went to was, our teacher did reinvest earnings back into the classes by purchasing/maintaining training equipment for students to use such as focus pads, Thai pads, protective gear, weights, kick shields, mats etc. -- and they'd all be regularly used and worn and replaced. The teacher also purchased books -- he had a private library that students could access, and some of the books had to be imported (because it's not easy to find decent literature on martial arts in Western countries). And we never had membership fees or whatever... just an annual fee to cover insurance then basic lesson fees (which became cheaper if you attended more lessons). With GKR, I've paid the trial membership fee and lesson fees; all of which are quite considerable, but I've never seen or touched any training equipment provided from the school. When sparring we actually have to purchase/bring our own protective gear from home. I haven't even seen (let alone touched) a single focus pad or kick shield etc. They don't use weights in training (as I've mentioned before, one of the Senseis argued that it's not part of Karate :rolleyes:). I haven't bothered to purchase a uniform or belt, but I'm assuming that that's gotta be paid out of students' own pockets too, right? Are there fees for grading? It seems that in GKR they keep asking us to pay for this and that... but where's the money going to?
what have you decided to do dude?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
I didn't go to any classes this week, but I did some private training yesterday. During this time I had someone hold a kick shield for me and I was practising round house kicks -- I practised both the way I was taught in GKR with the knee sticking out, and the way I was taught in Tai Chi with the knee up front. Aside from the groin-defence issue, something else that I didn't think about before came up -- power. I found that the knee up front roundhouse kick delivered greater power whereas the knee to the side delivered noticeably less power.
The immediate explanation that comes to mind is less rotation, which of course means less rotational energy. When sticking the knee out to the side, my leg is already positioned for a roundhouse kick, so the leg just swings in. My supporting leg and hips do rotate, but my kicking leg does not. Whereas with the knee up front version, the kicking leg needs to rotate 90 degrees as the kick is delivered. This extra rotation would naturally generate additional rotational energy.
I actually wasn't even looking to compare the power output of these kicks, I was practising roundhouse kicks and I just felt like practising both versions... I mean, I've been practising all these new punches and kicks in GKR class, but never had the opportunity to try them with any form of tacticle contact, so I decided to see what it would feel like to deliver a roundhouse kick as I've been taught in GKR. To my surprise it was quite weak -- and I wasn't trying to be weak with it, I delivered both roundhouse kicks with equal strength. I could feel that the knee up front version was stronger, and the person holding the shield said so too.
Been back 3 weeks since our holiday break. Things are going well. My Sensei is going for his 2nd dan black belt so he is putting on a BBQ this weekend but before hand we are having 40 rounds of sparring. I don't know who will be cooking the BBQ. It wont be me:p
Plus next month I get to start my instructor accreditation course.:)
awesome dudeQuote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
had an awesome night at judo!!!!!! glad to be back
Glad you're enjoying getting back into Judo. :)
I've tried some Judo before and found that it didn't suit my needs; I've sparred with two black belts, one was a Judo Sensei from America, the other a Judo black belt from Japan (trained in Japan) - neither of them could throw me even though I let them grab me (which would never happen in a real fight). But to be fair to Judo, they don't claim to teach self-defence. The dojo that I went to, their advertising didn't mention self defence at all, and the Sensei I spoke to openly admitted that it's a sport and not a fighting form (he told me that if I want to learn how to fight, look somewhere else) -- and I can respect that. :) The official site for Australian Judo doesn't mention self-defence at all, but does talk about the other benefits of learning Judo as a fun sport. :D
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22.../jaam_jaam.gif
Sport-wise, I've seen disabled (blind) Judo before - that's rather interesting. It's the same rules as regular Judo, but the competitors start already in contact with each other, whereas in regular Judo they stand at a distance and then step in to make contact. Being in the stands was interesting, everyone cheers REALLY loudly when barracking for blind competitors (since it's the only way they can tell that they're being supported -- banners, flags etc. mean nothing to them) ;)
Hi there, just new to the thread, but saw your comments and thought I could shed some light. Your instructor is correct in part, understanding that when we throw kicks, the expectation is that they are not caught. However, you are right, kicks can and often are caught by your opponent. What we teach is first of all, to avoid them being caught you must practise getting them back in the same manner they are delivered (ie you reverse the technique, rather than just letting them hit your target and dropping straight back to the floor, where they again become a counter-target). So your kicks must be delivered at speed. If your foot / leg IS caught in either front-kick or roundhouse kick, an option is to pull your leg close to your body. The reasoning being that if your leg is being held, then your opponent has their hands down (to hold your leg), thus sacrificing defence of their head. As you bend your knee to bring your opponent in, start jabbing to the head. You will find your opponent will quickly decide that holding your leg is NOT in their best interests as they are unable to block the head strikes. Just thought you might find this helpful in some manner. Practise this next time you are able. There are a number of other retaliations for a leg grab which involve dropping your supporting leg and taking your opponent to the ground (see any senior BJJ student and they can show you how to do this), but just be careful when deciding to go to the ground. Hope this helpsQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Welcome to the board Posnik and thank you for your considered response. :)
Out of the suggestions you've made, I would personally go for the leg-drop, though I'd rather not go to the ground with my opponent. In Tai Chi we remain upright with all our holds and submission techniques, similar to Aikido. :)
Hmmm... work schedule has temporarily changed; thinking about resuming Yang Tai Chi training -- at least for the next 2-3 weeks until my work schedule clashes with the classes again. :rolleyes: C'est la vie.
We had a special 40 round sparring session today followed by a BBQ. Thankfully one of the guys wives cooked because none of us were really up for cooking after 40 rounds.