The 10th (David Tennant) Doctor is the best out of the new Doctors IMO. If you're thinking about watching any of the new Dr. Who stuff, I'd recommend that one. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 5FDP
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The 10th (David Tennant) Doctor is the best out of the new Doctors IMO. If you're thinking about watching any of the new Dr. Who stuff, I'd recommend that one. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 5FDP
Thanks Goki :) Now all I need to do is find the time to watch them :p
I'm still partial to Capaldi, he just needs to get rid of Clara.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
That being said ... I caught both parts of The End of Time over the weekend and it reminded me of why I liked Tennant so much.
ABC iView allows you to watch the latest ep in your own time. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 5FDP
Yeah, but you have to have time to make time ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Here's a simple graphic I made to try and get my head around the Doctor's incarnations and their chronology. :o
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...psmjizcozr.jpg
A: First Doctor (William Hartnell)
B: Second Doctor (Patrick Troughton)
C: Third Doctor (Jon Pertwee)
D: Fourth Doctor (Tom Baker)
※: The Watcher (Adrian Gibbs)
E: Fifth Doctor (Peter Davison)
F: Sixth Doctor (Colin Baker)
G: Seventh Doctor (Sylvester McCoy)
H: Eighth Doctor (Paul McGann)
I: War Doctor (John Hurt)
J: Ninth Doctor (Christopher Eccleston)
K: Tenth Doctor, pre meta-crisis (David Tennant)
★: Meta Crisis Doctor (David Tennant)
L: Tenth Doctor, post meta-crisis (David Tennant)
☆: Valeyard (Michael Jayston)
M: Eleventh Doctor (Matt Smith)
*: Dream Lord (Toby Jones)
N: Twelfth Doctor (Peter Capaldi)
Was half watching the last episode of the latest season on ABC2 last night whilst my toddler ran around. Every time a Cyberman came on he'd say 'robot' and point at the screen. However when one took its face off to reveal a dead Danny Pinks face underneath that really freaked him out, he went very quiet in my lap and help my hand over his eyes so he couldn't see the TV.
Don't really blame him. There are some ep's where I remember that a freaky bit is coming up and switch it off before Orion can see it.
New Season starts tomorrow (Sunday).
Unlike last season, they don't appear to have the episodes screening at 4/5am in the morning after it airs in England.... but is supposed to be on Iview instead if you can't wait until the 7.30pm screening on ABC.
And if you miss that, it will repeat twice during the week on ABC2, and be on Iview for a week or two.
I couldn't wait till later so I watched it.
I'm trying to be careful to not give away anything, but there were some surprises for me and I really enjoyed it.
Can't wait for next episode and I haven't really felt that way since Tennant was at the helm :)
Yeah it's hard to discuss tonights ep without giving spoilers away.
In the first few seconds of the show I was thinking 'oh, here we are in some old war on earth yet again. Oh man - am I actually getting bored with Dr Who?!" Then it's suddenly lasers and freaky hand things and it just escalated from there.
Suffice it to say there was so much going on in this episode it felt like a season finale rather than a season opener :eek: Freakin good stuff!
I think it's fair to assume that there may be spoilers about the new ep/season from here on. Spoilers ahead...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...ps3g8qve9u.gif
spoiler time
spoiler and
spoiler relative
spoiler dimensions
spoiler in
spoiler space
This:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...ps0ygacymz.jpg
Non-Caucasian looking Kaleds! I personally think that it's good to try and introduce more ethnic diversity into the show, especially among alien humanoids. We've already seen attempts at introducing more diversity into other humanoid aliens, such as Time Lords. Besides, it don't matter if your black or white, cos in the end they all look like cycloptic squids! :p
Coincidentally I was actually re-watching The Genesis of the Daleks just last week, so the memories of that episode are still fresh in my mind; revisiting the dilemma that the Fourth Doctor faced with detonating the incubation chamber and killing the Dalek race at the moment of the creation. But here's the thing, when the Doctor was sent to Skaro to intervene with the Dalek's creation, he was actually given several options:
* Avert their creation
* Alter their nature (i.e. make them less aggressive)
* Discover an inherent weakness
The Doctor initially tried to alter their nature, asking Davros not to strip the Daleks of their morality (as did some other sympathetic Kaleds, who attempted a coup that ultimately failed). He couldn't discover any inherent weakness, so the only option he had left was to commit genocide, but he only managed to trap the Daleks for a thousand years.
So here's the thing... the Twelfth Doctor has inadvertently travelled back to Skaro and discovered Davros as a boy. Rather than killing him, why doesn't he just rescue Davros and mentor the boy? Try to help Davros grow into a better man --- a man who doesn't believe that morality and compassion are weaknesses, and thus attempt to pass these "strengths" onto the Daleks. If the Doctor can guide Davros into becoming a compassionate man, then there's a fair chance that the Daleks would become compassionate beings. Save Clara, save the freakin' future! The Doctor would finally complete the mission that the Time Lords assigned to him back in The Genesis of the Daleks.
P.S.: It would be similar to what the Doctor tried to do with Kazran Sardick, although Sardick did still become the mean person that the Doctor was trying to change. But the Doctor could at least try to change Davros, and if that fails, then kill him. Spending decades becoming Davros' confidant would allow the Doctor to be trusted by him and get close, which would make it easier to assassinate him if changing Davros' nature would appear to be impossible.
I'm really starting to hate how no one dies in Doctor Who, unless they are a friend of the Doctor.
If they can't afford to lose two of his biggest villains, then don't kill them off... again and again and again.
And they don't even bother to try to explain it anymore. At least in the original series, they would explain a "return after death", even if it was sometimes a little far-fetched. But at least they tried and not just have dead people show up without a reason.
:mad:
or just kill the boy rather than spend years wasting it on the boy influencing him to morality and compassion and wotnot only to find, it doesn't work.... he's already an evil person presently. So, presented with the chance, just off the fellow in one quick swoop. Easier, faster ;) mission accomplished.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Also I don't think trapping the Daleks can count as genocide... they didn't die, they're just misplaced somewhere.... he should've sent the entire race in the heart of a star, then that's genocide and that would've ended their menace. mission accomplished again, the Doctor for all his knowledge and power is indeed such a weak and flawed creature heheheh.
Errr.... I'm not sure we as TF nuts can really rag on the Dr Who show for that - most big TF villains have died and come back that many times the gateway to the afterlife might as well be a revolving door :pQuote:
Originally Posted by griffin
Yes, but that's not how the Doctor thinks. The Doctor is a similar character to Optimus Prime -- they are altruists, and the ends can never justify the means. They are both incredible optimists, and as Davros correctly pointed out, compassion is the Doctor's greatest indulgence. The Doctor had the chance to kill off the Daleks at the moment of their creation, but he really did not want to do this. One of the most powerful moments in The Genesis of the Daleks was seeing the Fourth Doctor holding the two wires in his hand and having a moral conflict over whether or not he should detonate the Dalek incubation chamber, killing off a yet-innocent race before their birth. When his Kaled allies came and told the Doctor that Davros had agreed to negotiate, the Doctor gladly dropped the wires and ran off. The Doctor only went back to detonate the explosives when the negotiations failed.Quote:
Originally Posted by liegeprime
The Doctor didn't have his Tardis with him. The Time Lords sent him and his companions to Skaro to avert or alter the genesis of the Daleks. He was given a Time Ring as his only means of escaping Skaro after completing his mission.Quote:
Originally Posted by liegeprime
This is a similar trait that he shares with Optimus Prime. As Optimus Prime's G1 TFU profile states, he would be a more efficient military commander if he weren't so compassionate, but then he simply wouldn't be Optimus Prime. Look at what Michael Bay did to Optimus Prime in the live action TF sequels (esp. ROTF and AOE). Optimus Prime became far more ruthless and a lot of fans (and even Peter Cullen) responded unfavourably. It's what separates heroes from villains.Quote:
Originally Posted by liegeprime
Padmé Amidala: "To be angry is to be human."
Anakin Skywalker: "I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this."
(Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones)
But this is what makes these characters heroic. Without the compassion, then what would stop them from being villains? The Doctor became morally lost after the Time War when he regenerated into the Ninth Doctor, but it was Rose Tyler who helped him find his way and regain his sense of compassion.
And it was in this moment that a Dalek made the Doctor step back and take a good hard look at what he had allowed himself to become...
Ninth Doctor: "The Daleks have failed! Why don't you finish the job, and make the Daleks extinct? Rid the universe of your filth! Why don't you just die?"
Dalek: "You would make a good Dalek."
(Doctor Who: Dalek)
The Doctor isn't a soldier. He gave himself the name of the Doctor because he wanted to help people. And when he did become a combatant as the War Doctor, that version of himself renounced the identity of being the Doctor and became loathed and emotionally buried by the Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh Doctors until his redemption in The Day of the Doctor. The Doctor normally prides himself on being a non-aggressive person. He was disappointed when Wilfred Mott offered him his gun, and even struggled to shoot either the Master or Rassilon, even to save all of creation.
Rose Tyler: "Doctor, they've got guns!"
Tenth Doctor: "And I haven't. Which makes me the better person, don't you think? They can shoot me dead, but the moral high-ground is mine."
(Doctor Who: Army of Ghosts)
So it's not a question of whether or not it's a 'logical' decision, but whether or not it's in-character for the Doctor. :o
Referring to Movie Megatron and pretty much every Optimus... doesn't it suck when it is made to look like they are gone for emotional effect, and then just brought back because of who they are?Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTransformerTrev
But it's not the dying that bothers me so much, it's the resurrections without justification or plausibility.
In Transformers, yes there are returns, but robotic life can be given a less organic and more infinite existence... after all, they can be built and come to life, and have been alive for millions of years. Plus, the concept of the Matrix and Allspark were created by writers just for that very plot element of resurrections - the "mystical unknown ancient artefact" that creates life but no science can explain it.
In Doctor Who, how many times has the Master actually died (beyond the ability to regenerate), or Davros, and then just magically popped up again.
Last nights episode, it was even scripted for one to say light-heartedly, "yes I died but I'm back again", as if it really is just a big joke now.
It's the double-standards the show now has with who dies and who can never die but we'll still make it look like they die.
And ever since Steven Moffat took over from Russell T Davies, he's been messing up a number of things that were previously reliable/consistent elements, like the number of Doctors (having Peter Capaldi be the 13th doctor in the Anniversary episode, but in the very next episode he is first of his next 12 regenerations which would have been written before the Anniversary episode was filmed), and the whole Gender element of Timelords (it was a fixed element before Moffat took over, just look at the Doctor always being male after 12-ish regenerations - if it wasn't fixed he should have statistically been female for half of his regenerations, or at least half of the ones he was unconscious while regenerating so that there wasn't a claim of him choosing to stay male - and if it was normal for them to change genders all the time, then why would he choose to stay male).
Can... of... worms. Arrrgh... :p
Moffat should have kept the status quo on those foundation elements, and not generated inconsistencies for the amusement of one story or plot device, that will bite him in the ass later. (like Romana changing appearances like outfits before settling on her second form - yes, amusing, but now that and the Morbius episode were now forever points of contention in the argument of how many regenerations can Timelords really have)
I've actually watched (or read the book to) every Doctor Who episode ever made, so I'm a little invested in it, and am entitled to have a little selfish rant... :o :p
I like Starscreams line in the G2 comic 'All 'death' does is make us a littler meaner and a little crankier'.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
In Dr Who's case it just keeps making him wackier and thinner to the point he is in the Middle Ages, riding a tank while playing an electric guitar :p
In regards to the "foundation elements", the "previously reliable/consistent elements, like the number of Doctors " how "foundation" are they really? How often did it actually come up in Classic Who vs just not being contradicted. Wasn't it something that didn't turn up for years into the series when some writer made it up. And now another writer made something else up.
There's a fundamental problem that any long running franchise seems to run into - the fans that don't want change, that want things to always stay the way they were. They want their hero to keep fighting the same villains - as was touched on before. Most shows (or comics too) would be better off with a fixed end point. Dragging them out just leads to these problems where stories can't reach end points and instead the characters have to keep acting out the same stories over and over. And in that environment you can't say "this is a set thing" because for the sake of keeping the show rolling nothing can be "set".
It'd be great to see a series of Doctor Who that didn't feature at all, in any way, a previously established alien race or character except the Doctor. No Daleks, Cybermen, UNIT, Master, Angels, Sontarans, Ice Warriors, Autons, etc etc. But how likely is that?
Transformers is just as bad as this. Even though they keep introducing new continuities, the same things (characters, events) keep getting retread over and over. Oh the new cartoon has Optimus Prime fighting Megatron? Yawn. The MTMTE series is doing something really interesting with Megatron, but if sales drop it could all be thrown out and we'll have "All Hail Megatron 2" staring the 80s cartoon Megatron again.
Anyway
This episode.
I enjoyed the episode watching it for the most part, but it left a sour taste in my mouth because the rules aren't clear anymore and I feel that a show like this should have pretty clear rules on time travel. A couple of characters died - but in a way that's screaming out for a time gets rewritten reset button, but if so, then what exactly are the time travel rules anymore? If you can pop back in time and undo deaths how/why should any character ever die ever again?
Surely wiping out the creator of the Daleks and removing them from history would be the biggest bomb to all of time and space. Something that would pretty much undo every single episode of New Who if not everything but Unearthly Child? If the Doctor can even try it now, how come no Time Lord tried this during the Time War? Surely they would have tried if they could? I guess all that Time War stuff no longer applies.
And if the Doctor has a will that goes to the Master when he's about to die, um, what about how they spent far too long with the 11th Doctor "going to die" at Trenzalore and it never came up, once?
Anyway, I'll wait to see part two and see what happens, but I want to see new stuff not, oh the Doctor's run off because he doesn't want to die, again.
I don't understand why the season opener has to be in 2 parts? There wasn't enough good or solid story to warrant a 2nd part so much filler. So much useless filler.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...ps0fa84621.jpg ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulbot
You may also enjoy this video: Realistic Superhero Funeral :cool:
But at least most other stories usually try to present some reason for why a character's returned, no matter how cheesy. The Mistress' return without rhyme nor reason just feels lazy. You might as well do something like this...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...psxmwqhcxn.jpg
*spoilers ahead*
Things I liked about tonight's episode:
* Lots of plot twists and turns! Pretty cool seeing Davros and the Doctor playing their own psychological chess game with each other.
* The concept of the Dalek Sewer was also pretty interesting too.
* Missy explaining that the Dalek word for 'sewer' and 'graveyard' are synonymous. This continues to remind the audience that the Daleks are an alien race, and that they're actually speaking their own language which we hear as English via the Tardis' translation matrix.
* Seeing how a Dalek Travel Machine is operated.
* This happened last ep too, but I think this is the first time we've seen a Special Weapons Dalek speak, showing the entire dome circumference light up instead of just the tip of the eye stalk (which Special Weapons Daleks don't have). Made it look like a walking heater though. :p
* The Doctor refusing to kill or save Missy.
* The conclusion, for two reasons. Firstly, it meant that the Doctor stayed in character as the compassionate altruist. Secondly, it does continue to affirm that the Doctor cannot change significant moments in history, as previously demonstrated when Rose Tyler tried to prevent her father's death (causing Reapers to appear in order to sterilise the time paradox) and when the Tenth Doctor attempted to save Dr Adelaide Brooke (only to have events reassert themselves when Dr. Brooke committed suicide shortly after being saved by the Doctor). There may be other eps which also demonstrate this, but those are all I can think of for now. :o
Things that I wasn't so fond of...
* The Doctor's mysteriously appearing cup of tea. It felt like Moffat really rubbing in the fact that he can just make random crap happen for no rhyme or reason and that we should just shut up and accept it. Just replace the word "Doctor" with "Batman." :p
* Deus ex solis perspicillum. :rolleyes:
Yeah,enjoyed these first two episodes more than any of Capaldi's cept maybe the Robin Hood one last season.
I thought it was a very good kick off to the new season - sets a very full-on tone :)
I'm just gonna say this:
https://i.imgur.com/XeLHoKd.png
The Doctor, playing guitar while on a tank and rocking the sunglasses is the most epic thing I have ever witnessed in Doctor Who.
Can't say I'm a fan of the glasses replacing the screwdriver.
Let's wait and see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcomp
And that was actually Capaldi playing!Quote:
Originally Posted by Handsprime
This weeks episode was one of the best I've seen in a while. Mystery, suspense, and a cliff-hanger! (Though next weeks trailer kinda ruins the cliff-hanger)
+1 Moffat needs to not write Who episodes anymoreQuote:
Originally Posted by Burn
I didn't see next weeks trailer so I'm glad I didn't get next weeks episode spoiled for meQuote:
Originally Posted by Burn
The trailer was after the credits, which they sometimes do when it gives away something from the cliffhanger. (or they are doing it with every episode this season, as it used to be before the credits)
I didn't see anything in the trailer to spoil how it happened. (I might have missed it though... but I'm not going to rewatch the trailer to find out. :p )
Nah last weeks episode had the trailer before the credits. They might only put it after the credits if the episode ends in a cliffhangerQuote:
Originally Posted by griffin
Latest episode was so boring. Why am I still watching this show
And now for my thoughts of the latest episode (be warned, spoilers)
In contrast to the previous episodes of the season, this is one of the 2 episodes not to be a 2-parter (with next weeks episode also not being a 2-parter), but despite this, the episode still ends with a bit of a cliffhanger. What were those sandmen? Will we ever see them again? What is up with the twist ending and what do you mean this wasn't real?
I am a little bit confused as to what the monsters are, but hopefully we'll learn latter in the series.
I found this week's episode to be rather daft. The basic premise was just too much for me to suspend disbelief. I actually quite liked the recent two-parter about the Zygons, even if the allegory was rather forced. The Goodwin box ending was pretty awesome IMHO. But yeah, this week's episode felt like a massive let down after that.
I think the only logical way to explain the plot would be...
Pulvis ex oculī! "Dust in the eyes" :p
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...psquqhafwu.jpg
You know what I feel is missing from this season? I major sub-plot connecting the episodes.
Like there isn't a big bad of the season pulling the strings. They are just a bunch of individual stories that just happen for some reason.
According to a theory there is a subplot but it's pretty spoilery so I'm just waiting to see how it plays out.
This weeks ep was weird though and breaking the pattern of two parters was an odd choice I do wonder if it will turn out, somehow, to be a part one after next week's episode after all.
I do not miss the over arcing sub plot thing. Nope, don't miss it. At least, not an overt arcing sub plot.
Considering most of the stories this season has loose ends, there is certainly material to fall back on in the climax at the end of the season.
We have the immortal girl, the sandmen, the Zygons, Missy, and the ghosts in the Faraday cage.... all still floating around in the background somewhere, and all feeling unresolved.
Only three episodes left of the season, and the last two are supposed to be a 2-parter... so whatever they do it had better make sense.
Ashildr is back for the next two weeks, this will also be time to say goodbye to Jenna! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by griffin
(Although she's been a LOT less annoying this season)
There's also something from the first two episodes which, if I read the synopses correctly, should tie into the final two episodes.