Martial arts discussion thread

You should be standing and moving in proper solid (re: anchored) stances rather than 'shuffling' about like a modern boxer. Your footwork should more closely resemble the way your legs move during katas, and I'm sure you don't shuffle in katas. :) A common mistake some people make is to stand 'on' their stances rather than 'in' them. The centre of mass/weight should be distributed in a way that it effectively "anchors" or "sinks" the practitioner into the ground. The common analogy is to imagine that you are a tree and that there are roots shooting out from beneath your feet and attached to the ground. This should allow you to better absorb incoming force, or quickly recover if you are upended (e.g. by quickly switching to another stance to regain your balance, or worse case scenario, performing a breakfall).

Now in saying that a person should be rooted in their stance, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be rock-solid like a statue. One should be solid but fluid at the same time. This is something that I find a lot of schools don't teach properly, the idea of being simultaneously hard and soft. I find all too many people are either too 'hard' and don't move fluidly, or they're too 'soft' and they move with a good flow but insufficient solidity.

Some misinterpretations I've encountered include:
+ You switch between being hard and soft - e.g. when throwing a punch your arm is relaxed (soft), but hardens up on impact (hard).
+ One part of your body is hard, while another is soft - e.g. you are hard from waist down in a solid stance, but soft from waist up as you're punching/blocking etc.
I don't find either explanation to be terribly good, because they seem to view hard/soft like a light switch which means that the two properties are mutually exclusive. They seem to completely miss the point of the Yin Yang which shows hardness and softness being mutually inclusive, and the two dots at the largest portions of the opposites showing that hardness can be found at the height of softness and vice versa. I prefer analogies like looking at a whip or a crashing wave at the beach -- things that are soft in nature but also extremely 'hard' and strong in the amount of force they deliver.

http://www.calasanz.com/strong-martial-arts-stance/

So we want our stances to be strong and solid, but at the same time not "dead." They should also be agile and mobile... but not too mobile that you lose strength in the stance. It's all about striking that balance. :) There are various different exercises that you can do to practise this. I personally find Tai Chi's Push Hands is quite good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r59gWTzKSw
^It looks deceptively gentle, but each forward push is actually producing a good amount of force. The object of the activity is to actually shove your opponent off balance with every push. A single mistake can send you flying backwards. :o

As for the groin strike, that's got more to do with your defensive posture. At virtually no point in a fight should your groin be exposed to an opponent. But we all make mistakes, and unfortunately stuffing up your groin defence is an extremely painful one to make. :o

I've explained our schools policy on groin strikes numerous times to you. One last time. In sparring situations safety is our top priority so we only allow kicks from above the knee to shoulder height with all leg kicks to be on the outside of our partners legs. If you lack the basic control to follow these simple rules then you really shouldn't be doing martial arts:rolleyes:

I'd genuinely forgotten about that. :o At the Dojo where I learn Karate, groin strikes are allowed, but head strikes are forbidden in sparring. But we still learn how to defend the head. Having said that... I find that the majority of people I spar with at the Dojo are pretty poor at head defence. :( It's similar to my experience in sparring with people who don't do groin strikes and have poor groin defence. I think that when you disallow certain attacks, it can make some people complacent in learning to defend themselves from those techniques. I reckon this is why a lot of students at my Dojo are really bad at defending the head. A lot of them are also not good at defending themselves from grappling because we never learn any grappling or breakfalling etc.

I understand and totally agree that safety is a top priority. Martial arts schools have a legal duty of care over their students, I get that. But surely there must be a way to allow certain techniques to be used in a relatively safe(r) manner.
e.g.
+ Using protective equipment such as groin guards, head gear, floor mats etc.
+ Training students to modify attacks in training for safety. e.g. only "tapping" the head with your fists or finger tips (like playing tips in the schoolyard), only striking to the upper inner thighs (so that you're striking next to the groin but not at it) etc.

^JMHO :o

We have tried various techniques in the past. We also don't allow head strikes. We used to allow taps to the head but we found a lot of the newer sparrers had trouble with control. Same with inside leg kicks. Watching a lot of UFC even the professionals have trouble mastering that technique correctly and at each event there are at least 3-4 groin strikes. We do have to wear groin guards but they only prevent permanent injury. They don't stop the pain!:o

Disclaimer: The following post only represents my personal views on my own experience with individual schools. It is not intended to be a broad sweeping criticism on Karate or any other particular martial arts school or system.

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Aaand, I think I'm done with Karate now. To hopefully make a long story short, reasons are:
1) I find the whole grading/belt system is really too counter-productive to learning actual self defence. Classes are structured towards passing tests rather than to practically apply skills.
2) Sensei cannot teach. He is highly knowledgable in traditional Okinawan Karate, which is what drew me to his school in the first place, but he cannot teach it. Reasons for this include:
+ He gets really angry and abusive if you make mistakes (as if it were a personal attack - I'm serious), and of course beginners make the most mistakes and consequently cop the most abuse. The more mistakes you make, the more he rages at you, and the more stressed you get, and the more mistakes you make, which makes him even madder. It's an endless escalating cycle. Honestly... he gets angry if you're less than perfect, but if we were already experts then we wouldn't need him to teach us! :rolleyes: Furthermore there's just something really weird about learning to defend myself from bullies and thugs from a teacher who is himself, a thuggish bully. Also, I'm sure we'd all agree that respect is a two way street. I have no respect for anyone who won't respect me, and I no longer wish to pay him any more money to teach^demoralise me. I've also heard anecdotal stories from other students that he's made children cry.
+ He has no concept of proper effectual teaching. His mantra is basically, "Shut up and obey." There's no room for critical/analytical thinking, student based learning, creativity, exploration etc. Quite frankly, if I ever had a student teacher who taught like Sensei, I would most certainly fail that student teacher.

There's a common assumption at the school that because Sensei is highly knowledgable when it comes to traditional Okinawan Karate (which he is), that therefore he's an excellent teacher. This isn't the case. That's like saying that anyone who's a fluent speaker of English can be a great English teacher. :rolleyes: Staying with this Dojo means that I would have to endure continued emotional stress at paying a man to rage at me and call it teaching. And really, there's nothing that they've taught me that, in terms of practical skills, have really added to my martial arts repertoire. I already know how to strike, block, evade, parry, grapple, counter-grapple... I would like to have more practise in doing this, but it's unlikely to happen until I pass more grading tests, which means that I need to endure many months (or years) worth of infuriating lessons just to get up to a level that I would find personally productive.

So I'm spending lots of time and money and really not learning anything terribly useful. All the techniques I've learnt I already know how to do -- okay, I do it in a different way, but it still achieves the same outcome. i.e. the way that Tai Chi blocks an incoming medium height punch (Chuudantsuki) is different from Karate's, but they both achieve the same goal (i.e. thwart the attack). I don't see why I need to invest all this time, money and effort to essentially reinvent the wheel. This is quite different from some other martial arts teachers (in schools that don't have grades/belts) who can allow students who've had previous martial arts experience to skip some basic level forms and just start off at a higher level so that they would learn something that would be useful for them. Sure, their basics would differ, but it was a case of "you'll get used to it as you progress" rather than taking them all the way back to square one and starting again. I don't teach Japanese Kanji stroke order to students who are literate in Chinese! There are some differences between Chinese characters used in Chinese and Japanese, but Chinese-literate students can adjust to these differences as they learn the language. There's no real need to go back to the bare basics of learning to write Chinese characters as I would with students who aren't literate in Chinese.

Furthermore I have two situations that are changing next year...
1/ My daughter is starting school, including Saturday school. Karate gradings at the Dojo I go to are ONLY ever held on Saturdays.
2/ I started doing Karate 2 years ago because in 2012 and 2013 I had after school classes on Wednesdays, which is also the only day that my local Yang Tai Chi school runs classes. Due to this schedule clash I decided to try Karate. Next year none of my after school classes are running on Wednesdays, so I think I'll just go back to Tai Chi which is far more productive and intuitive for me. Even though my local Tai Chi school teaches for health/relaxation rather than combat/self defence, I have enough previous knowledge of Tai Chi to retroactively apply their techniques which I can practice in my own time.

Again, none of this is intended to be a criticism against Karate itself, but given my individual circumstances I think it makes more sense for me to just go back to Tai Chi.

I haven't posted here in ages as I have been busy with work over summer. At the start of December I went to Parkes for a Kumiai-Ryu tai kai and senior grading day. I had to learn 3 katas. A basic forms kata, a bo staff kata and a grappling sequence. I hate doing kata. I feel so much pressure doing it so I made sure I had them exactly right. I broke them down with my sensei step by step until I could do the bo staff kata with my eyes shut. I get through the grading no problems and it's time to do the kata. The basic and bo katas go off without a hitch. Even to the point of I had a huge grin on my face by the end of the bo kata as I didn't feel any pressure and was having fun doing it. I get to the grappling sequence kata, partner up with another student grading and go to perform the sequence and IT's WRONG! My instructor taught me the wrong kata! He was sitting up with the panel of judges so I turn to him and with a dumbfounded look say "This isn't what I learnt. What do I do?" One of the senior judges yells out "Quiet and just do it!" Thankfully my partner was quite helpful and guided me through. After that we had 10x2 minute rounds of sparring. After about 3 rounds I noticed every time I went to switch partners there would be 3-4 people rushing to get to spar with me. After a couple of more rounds and starting to feel really sore (more so then I expected from the sparring) I noticed that I am the only one with an over abundance of senior students wanting to spar with me. I also notice that I am the only one limping after 6 rounds. I scape through the sparring... just. Thankfully the last guy I sparred was quite gentle on me. After we are awarded our belts everyone is shaking hands and getting photos etc. One of the senior officials "Tashi" Dave asks if he could speak to me. "Of course" I reply. I follow him to a quiet area where he is there with "Shihan" Rob and "Kyoshi" Kevin (our system of school's founder) The proceed to verbally dress me down like I was a 6 year old child for being rude and disrespectful by questioning my Sensei in front of everyone. I insisted that I wasn't being disrespectful merely turning to my Sensei for guidance. They tell me I should of watched the instructional DVD with all the katas on it. I admit that I had the kata wrong but if I show it to my instructor incorrectly and he says it's fine then why would I watch the DVD? They refuse to budge on the subject blaming me 100% saying I need to improve my attitude and that I should count myself lucky one of the senior members didn't knock me out when I disrespected my sensei. Realising I am banging my head against a wall I smile and apologise but in my head I'm smiling and thinking "I wonder what that other martial arts school in town is like?" They forced me to apologise to my sensei in front of them and this was the last straw. All I wanted from him was a little responsibility for teaching me the wrong kata but I got none. Several friends of mine who study martial arts have heard this story and feel I did nothing wrong and understand that I was looking for help in the situation. So now I am training at a school that although it is competition based the training is excellent. they teach Muay Thai and BJJ. Their BJJ is legit too as you can trace back the instructor lineage (something very important in BJJ). This is something I have often questioned about Kumiai-Ryu's BJJ and I've never gotten a straight answer. I have had "red flags" about Kumiai-Ryu pop up over the past 6 months but this grading sealed it for me. I've been training at Southern Fitness and Martial Arts for 3 weeks now and I really enjoy it. A very friendly school as opposed to Kumiai-Ryu and their secret motto of "Are you a black belt? No... Then shut up!". Kumiai-Ryu starts back again next week and I am going back to finish my accreditation, even if I never use I still think it will only benefit me in the future. My ignorant Sensei is going to get a shock when I downgrade my class package from 4 classes a week to 1.

That's my story about what I've been doing for the past month in the martial arts world.

Sounds like we've both hit the same wall -- training at schools that value form over substance with a school culture that promotes blind obedience and conformity over independent and higher level critical thinking. And like you, the alternative for me isn't ideal either, but I'd much rather train at a school where I'm not treated like a complete idiot.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Disclaimer: The following post only represents my personal views on my own experience with individual schools. It is not intended to be a broad sweeping criticism on Karate or any other particular martial arts school or system.

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All your posts regarding Martial Arts should start with this gok :P

So I am still at Kumiai-Ryu but only about half the time I used to be there. Decided I should at least finish off my instructor accreditation before I completely quit there.

I have to film myself teaching a lesson tonight. Should be interesting.

Good luck w/ getting that accreditation. It'd be nice to at least leave Karate with something to show for it. :o

My work schedule is conflicting with the Yang Tai Chi classes this year. Again. But I've decided not to waste any more money on my local Karate Dojos. I'm just doing informal outside training. Our group has a mix of people from different styles including Karate, Aikido and Wing Chun Kung Fu. It's fun sometimes to mix and combine different techniques -- e.g. I recently used some Aikido footwork with a Tai Chi take down technique to 'force' a highly resistant opponent onto the ground. :) Aikido stepping is wider and more "arcing" than Tai Chi's, which has more of a "corkscrew" effect to drive the opponent into the ground; whereas Tai Chi's armwork is tighter than Aikido's -- so I found that the combination of Tai Chi upper body movement with Aikido lower body movement better enabled me to bring down stronger opponents who were actively resisting being taken down. I get a lot more benefit from doing this kind of cross training and I don't have to pay for it either. :)

I liked this page called "McDojo" on facebook. Great for a (cringeworthy) laugh.

https://www.facebook.com/McDojoLife?fref=ts

Here are some examples of the great you tube vids they post.

EFO Empty force fail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6XldR7pCFI

Yi Chuan Kung Fu... I'm still not sure if these guys are just a parody though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTIqtLa35kc

Had a quick look at the FB page. I see what you mean by cringeworthy laughs... man, that Kung Fu Vs TKD video -- all it needs is the Benny Hill chase music. :p

I dont know if it was the EFO or the fact that i was PMSL, but something moved me

KIAIIIII!

Well this is the last week. Due to family reasons my Sensei is closing his doors and moving back to Peak Hill. The sad thing is if he hadn't been such a douchebag over the whole thing we actually could of kept the doors open with a Sensei from outside the area possibly relocating but it's too late now. Onwards to Southern Martial Arts and Crossfit (except for the crossfit)

Enjoying Southern Martial Arts. Got to spar in a boxing ring which was awesome and a 15 year old learnt a harsh but valuable lesson about forgetting his groin guard.

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

*Snip* and a 15 year old learnt a harsh but valuable lesson about forgetting his groin guard.

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What I'd give to see that. :p

Also about just forgetting to defend one's groin. There are no guards in a real fight unless he's gonna wear a cup 24/7. ;) :D Either way... lesson learnt. Hopefully. I have met some people who still refuse to even contemplate wearing guards or practising techniques to better protect the groin even after getting hit there. Their thinking is just, "Only a dog would hit someone there," uh... right... because bullies and people who commit assault are totally going to have a sense of decency and honour! :rolleyes: :p

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I've recently been training with someone who keeps on using the Wing Chun Horse Stance all the time, even though it seems to offer him really poor balance and also leaves him very open/exposed (especially the groin). On a few instances I've tried to demonstrate this to him by kicking toward his groin (but stopping short of making any contact), and also just shoving him backwards to show his lack of balance. Despite this, he still continues to use the Wing Chun Horse Stance in every aspect and appears to be leading with his hands rather than with his legs (which would also account for why his stance doesn't serve him well). :confused:

According to this site:

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It must be stressed that the Wing Chun training stance is not a stance in which one would fight. Wing Chun Sil Lim Tao stance is called Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma and comes from the first form of Wing Chun Kung Fu.

The stance is used to develop the leg muscles and balance from simply standing (Its an Isotomic strength training exercise for those who wanted to know, that means it trains muscles to be strong without movement). The first Wing Chun form, Sil Lim Tao or “Little Idea”, is performed with the practitioner remaining in the training stance throughout the form. All of the other hand forms start in this same training stance.

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When I look at images of practical Wing Chun applications, they do what virtually every other martial art system does and employ stances that has one foot in front of the other (duh!). :p
http://www.brooklynwt.com/files/imag...0triangule.jpg
http://www.wingchun.si/images/slides/yipman09.jpg
http://pacificwavejiujitsu.com/blog/...hun-stance.jpg
http://www.lawingchun.com/jessica/MA...e/pg5_full.jpg

I gave him a push that was firm enough to send him backwards, but gentle enough that it wouldn't make him fall over. And I've shown him how to adopt a wider stance (i.e. bow stance / Zenkutsudachi) that will better absorb incoming force without budging. I told him to give me a hard shove, and he did, and he couldn't move me when I was in the correct stance. Time to do some Tai Chi Push Hands next time. ;)

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

I have met some people who still refuse to even contemplate wearing guards or practising techniques to better protect the groin even after getting hit there. Their thinking is just, "Only a dog would hit someone there," uh... right... because bullies and people who commit assault are totally going to have a sense of decency and honour! :rolleyes: :p

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This attitude always amuses me. If I'm in a fight with you, it's because you started it. I don't pick fights and am a very non violent person. So if I find myself in a position where I have to defend myself, considering I have zero martial arts training, I'm gonna look for the easiest and safest way (for me) to end that fight. And a swift, hard kick to the groin has a good chance of that.

Outside of a ring, there is no such thing as a fair fight.

Good discussions going on :)

Glad the new dojo is working out bro!

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Originally Posted by KalEl

Good discussions going on :)

Glad the new dojo is working out bro!

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Thanks. The martial arts there is more competition based. They do a little bit of self defence. I'm enjoying it a lot. I did karate (kempo) for 4.5 years now switching to a more competition based martial art like Muay Thai, it feels like a fresh start and I look forward to learning more and blending the styles I've learnt together.

What are you training in at the moment?

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

Thanks. The martial arts there is more competition based. They do a little bit of self defence. I'm enjoying it a lot. I did karate (kempo) for 4.5 years now switching to a more competition based martial art like Muay Thai, it feels like a fresh start and I look forward to learning more and blending the styles I've learnt together.

What are you training in at the moment?

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Body building atm

Found this article while looking up stuff on the relationship of energy in boxing dynamics. The article talks about why weight training doesn't increase punching power, but how it's more related to grounding (i.e. stances!), plyometric movement, muscle groups etc. Not to say that weight training isn't beneficial -- as I said, I wasn't even looking up anything to do w/ weights when I found this, but I find the aspects of the article that focuses on what does actually work in issuing power to be quite good. :) The article is talking about boxing training, so the illustration shows a peeled rear heel (which traditional martial arts never does unless you want to make yourself an easier target for grapplers :p), but otherwise I found it a rather interesting read.
http://www.expertboxing.com/boxing-t...g-power-part-2
And yes, it should be f=ma (force = mass x acceleration), not F=MA :rolleyes:

I haven't read the article but we hold 1Kg weights when we do punching drills to help develop speed.

Did shadow sparring on Thursday night. Zigged when I should of zagged, now I've got a black eye and a nice cut on my cheek:o

It sounds better if you tell people that you headbutted an incoming punch (and that your sparring partner now has his hand in a cast :p). ;)

Out of interest does any one here do kendo at all?

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Originally Posted by Dkaris

Out of interest does any one here do kendo at all?

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Nope. Certainly isn't a cheap martial art to do. ;)

Be aware that Kendo is pretty much a competitive sport rather than a fighting art. It's fine if you're more interested in the sport/competition aspect, but if you're more interested in the actual art of Japanese swordsmanship, I'd recommend looking into martial arts like Kenjutsu, Battoujutsu, Iaijutsu etc. They're also not cheap, but cheaper than Kendo (cos you don't have to purchase the armour!). :D

These clubs pretty much require you to pay for a year's worth of membership before they even let you do any training -- no free trial lesson. You are also required to purchase all of your own equipment too, so with Kenjutsu you'll need to pay for the Gi uniform (including hakama) and a bokken/bokuto (wooden sword). With Kendo you'll need to purchase these same things, but also the armour set (which is quite dear) and a shinai (bamboo sword) -- you'll still need the oak bokken too, as that's used for practising kata, whereas shinai are used for sparring and competitions. Don't let the fact that bokken are made from wood fool you, they can be extremely dangerous. During the Meiji Period when it became illegal for any unauthorised persons to carry metal swords and the samurai class was disbanded, some samurai began carrying bokken and some of them actually recorded higher kills using bokken than they did with metal katana! :eek: Part of this is because while a katana is a hacking/slicing weapon, bokken deal more blunt force trauma injuries which can cause greater internal damage (and infections), which can become fatal. A person who has his arm chopped off can continue living as an amputee, but there were cases of people dying from internal organ damage caused by bokken. So for this reason, nobody spars or competes with a solid oak bokken, only with bamboo shinai which are hollow on the inside and are designed to collapse to absorb the shock (much like the crumple zone of a car). They still hurt like hell if they hit you though! (like a massively bad caning... ouch!) :p ;)

Sorry for my ignorance as I didn't feel I was up to the task of going through the 75 pages for this massive thread- Wow! But are there many people on here that do muaythai?

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Originally Posted by Tfiguy

Sorry for my ignorance as I didn't feel I was up to the task of going through the 75 pages for this massive thread- Wow! But are there many people on here that do muaythai?

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Yep. I switched from karate a few months ago when my karate school closed down.

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

Yep. I switched from karate a few months ago when my karate school closed down.

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Ah cool man, which city are you based? Are you enjoying it? Is it a good gym? I've been planning to move to Brisbane soon, so I can start again. I've been getting nice and fat while not training.. :(... I miss it sooo much, esp my years over in Thailand.. I can't wait!

In my personal experience, I've found Muay Thai to be more of a competition fighting style rather than a more traditionally "combative" one. One thing which impresses me about MT fighters that I've sparred with has been the incredible power of their kicks, however my criticisms would be:
+ Groin defence is practically non-existent. A lot of their postures and moves actually open the groin up. They might as well have worn shorts/pants with a target painted on their crotch.
+ While their kicks are very strong as because they start from the ground, they lack the control offered from kicks that start from the knee; a lot of other MAs such as Karate, Kung Fu, Tai Chi etc. lift the knee first. While this sacrifices power, I find that it offers greater manoeuvrability and control.
+ Some MT fighters adopt modern boxing style ducking and weaving, which potentially leaves the neck and upper spine vulnerable -- i.e. it makes it easier to trap a forward leaning head and attack, break or snap the neck or upper vertebrae. This is why all traditional martial arts, including Victorian Era Queensberry Rules Boxing, Bartitsu etc., always have fighters holding their spine in an erect posture, and rarely (if ever) leaning their head and/or neck towards an opponent.

This is only from my own personal experience with Muay Thai fighters. Hopefully you guys have found better schools. :)

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Originally Posted by Tfiguy

I miss it sooo much, esp my years over in Thailand.. I can't wait!

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Did you ever come across Muay Boran when you were in Thailand? I've only seen very little of it, but apparently it's the more traditional martial art of Thailand, whereas Muay Thai feels to me to be more of a competitive sport variation. :confused: From what I've seen and heard, it's more similar to other traditional martial arts in that they have more solid upright stances, lower attacks, tighter defences etc. It lacks the more flashy looking (and IMO less effectual) moves, jumps etc. of Muay Thai, but would basically be what Thai warriors would have actually used in combat where personal survival was the key, and not scoring points, impressing judges or winning competitions. When I look at Muay Boran, it looks a lot more similar to other traditional martial arts, and it's something I'd like to have a better look at if I ever get the chance. :)
http://www.guidetothailand.com/trave.../muay-thai.jpg
http://www.krumark.com/wp-content/ga...-boran-009.jpg
http://www.muaythaifactory.com/muay-...ompetition.jpg
http://www.krumark.com/wp-content/ga...oran-032_1.jpg
http://www.best-muaythai-equipment.c...muayboran5.jpg

I don't know who you've talked about/practiced Muay Thai with Gok but we actually have very good groin defence. We use our lead leg to check across our body. I've found it to be better then in karate with some of the very wide traditional stances. I'll agree about the kicking, one of my instructors hates how I kick from the knee. But to compensate we do a lot of shin conditioning to make sure our shins are stronger in case you are off target.

Tfiguy, I live in Ulladulla, which is a small town 3 hours south of Sydney. I am fortunate however that we have a great school for the size if our town. My main coach Nick is the WKA full Muay Thai rules Australian champion for his weight division.

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

I don't know who you've talked about/practiced Muay Thai with Gok but we actually have very good groin defence. We use our lead leg to check across our body. I've found it to be better then in karate with some of the very wide traditional stances.

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Cool. :D Unfortunately none of the MT guys I've ever trained with had good groin defence. But as we know, individual results can vary greatly between different schools, even if they teach the same martial art. :o I've been to Karate Dojos that practice excellent groin defence, while others are just really bad.

And I see what you mean about the wideness of stances as practised in some schools (the Yang Tai Chi school that I used to go to also taught their Bow Stance as being too impractically wide for my liking). I've also found that some of them leave the groin open. One example is the way that some people teach the Forward Stance in a wider position. IMO the forward stance should be aligned from the Riding Horse Stance (Kibadachi), which is meant to be the 'core fundamental' stance in a lot of East Asian martial arts; one ought to be able to "turn" into a Forward Stance from a Horse Stance.
e.g.
Forward Stance A
Forward Stance B
IMO Forward Stance B is better than A. A is too wide and appears to leave the groin open, whereas B is narrower and tighter. I've had people criticise this narrower gait for being "unstable" if someone pushes you from the side... but as if you would remain in this stance allowing someone to face you from your flank! :rolleyes: The opponent is supposed to be in front of you, and quite frankly, if they manouevre themselves to your inside, then you should have already changed your stance so that your vulnerable side isn't facing them! It's almost as if they're expecting you to fight like a statue rather than these stances merely being momentary. So I wouldn't say that the traditional stances are inherently flawed, per se, but often just not taught or applied correctly, IMHO. And most likely, the Muay Thai guys that I trained with were probably taught incorrectly too. :o

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

IMO Forward Stance B is better than A. A is too wide and appears to leave the groin open, whereas B is narrower and tighter.

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My favourite martial arts move would have to be Hold Block, press Up, Up, Up, and then press A + B.

Sorry, couldn't help myself :p

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Originally Posted by 5FDP

Sorry, couldn't help myself :p

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Real life application ;)

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Real life application ;)

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That was actually very well done. I LOL'd hard at the car bonus stage :D

Yeah Gok, mate we really do have great groin defense. Depending which attack is being used, there are different ways to defend. You're right it is designed as a competitive martial art based on muay boran but modified. Muay thai isn't really regarded as flashy as most thai trainers always teach you just rely on the basics and concentrate on precision and timing and power. If you watch some youtube clips of Thai fighters, you will notice that they usually rely on the basics as they see pulling off big flashy moves all the time will get uncoordinated, and wear you out too fast, that's why it's sometimes nick named a lazy martial art, and you're always taught to relax and not go crazy. There are many borkes you can do that may help in giving you an opening. Imo I would call muay boran more flashy.

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Originally Posted by Tfiguy

If you watch some youtube clips of Thai fighters, you will notice that they usually rely on the basics as they see pulling off big flashy moves all the time will get uncoordinated, and wear you out too fast, that's why it's sometimes nick named a lazy martial art, and you're always taught to relax and not go crazy.

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Well, traditional martial arts do look "dull" and "boring" compared to the non-traditional styles as they were never designed to compete or entertain an audience -- purely for combat effectiveness. It's not flashy, and quite frankly, the dirtier and cheaper the move, the better. ;) IMHO one of the best film quotes that adequately describes good martial arts combat is from Toy Story, "This isn't flying, this is falling with style!" :D Fancy and flashy moves are just massively impractical and, IMO, are more likely to get you hurt or killed in a fight. I totally agree with what you said about becoming uncoordinated and exhausted too. I've seen a lot of competition fighters do those "bouncing" steps and of course, leaping moves, whereas all the traditional stuff I've seen never bounce and rarely leap (what an ineffectual waste of energy!).

As someone who comes from a predominantly Tai Chi (which is a type of Kung Fu) training background, there's a public perception that Kung Fu looks like this, whereas in reality it looks more like this -- "Give me your face!" style of just ugly brutality.

100 Ways to Attack the Groin (it's like Benny Hill in angry pyjamas ;))

http://broscience.co/crossfit-worst-...fence-program/

Warning! Do not use these techniques in a real life situation.