Hasbro product and ratio release issues

It really makes you feel a bit sympathetic towards online retailers, because collectors make up a disproportionately large number of their customers, compared to normal retailers... but they have to get stuck with the over-balanced ratios that are set up for those normal retailers. (hence the price differences between same-size figures at places like BBTS)

The problem with the TF3 Movie stock ratios was that they didn't take into account the availability of those primary characters for the last 4 years. I've overheard a lot of parents and kids in the stores specifically saying that they already have certain characters and were wanting/looking for something else from the movie.
This first assortment of Prime toys will be its first release, so the option of 'already got that character' isn't there to prevent a kid or parent from grabbing the "lead roles" first. Parents who have the slightest knowledge of the brand or the cartoon, will prioritise the characters they know or recognise first... and they are the biggest consumer group for Hasbro to plan ahead for.

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Originally Posted by griffin

The problem with the TF3 Movie stock ratios was that they didn't take into account the availability of those primary characters for the last 4 years. I've overheard a lot of parents and kids in the stores specifically saying that they already have certain characters and were wanting/looking for something else from the movie.
This first assortment of Prime toys will be its first release, so the option of 'already got that character' isn't there to prevent a kid or parent from grabbing the "lead roles" first. Parents who have the slightest knowledge of the brand or the cartoon, will prioritise the characters they know or recognise first... and they are the biggest consumer group for Hasbro to plan ahead for.

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You're dead right Griffin, you're dead right as I've heard the very same utterings myself (Which has lead to some brief conversations :)) and I think that is exactly what Prime will have going for it, especially in its first release of figures seeing as though the 1st waves seem to be rather tight with characters and classes but also the fact that there are fewer characters should help also - I just hope the lack of Media Support for the line, well to the non-pay T.V. populace at least, doesn't hurt sales locally. :o

Again, one benefit of the internet and online retail. :cool:

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Originally Posted by griffin

I don't see that as silly. What character would most kids or parents buy if they could only afford one Voyager toy - The main character (Optimus), or a character that is about the 5th or 6th most featured character (Bulkhead)?
Serious collectors like us may buy both, or critically evaluate both before buying either, but we make up like 10% of those purchases... leaving up to 90% of Voyager purchases to kids & parents who only buy one toy.
If Hasbro had equal case ratios for toys that are not equally featured on the cartoon, they risk shelf-warming the less popular character toys. I don't think they just randomly generate those ratios - they'd do some polling first I'd imagine, or at least order the importance of the show characters (and non-show characters) and estimate the best ratio possible to minimise shelf-warming.
(and the problem with the larger toy sizes is that there are less figures to a case, so less room to move on ratios - 3:1 may seem over-balanced, but 2:2 would be out of the question for two mismatched characters)

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Except that the problem there is Griffin, that the Shelves will be clogged up with Wave 1 and by the time they clear out enough for retailers to order a new shipment, you'll be upto Wave 3 or 4.

This has happened in since the 2nd year of BW being out and has been a problem practically every single year since with one wave or another simply not arriving here.

Then you have the other things about Transformers- not every kid is going to automatically want Prime. Look at the way most of us as fans are about our favorite characters and the number of us who decided on that favorite as kids.

Yes Prime is the father figure, but Bulkhead is the "big brother" character of that show. How many kids are going to gravitate towards him.

Heck if it were just about the toys and leader characters, noone would give 2 hoots about Bludgeon, or even Fangry for that matter. It wasn't 20 year olds and 30 year olds who were making either popular at the time either.

This is the problem with Hasbro and retailers though- they simply can't seem to get their heads around the fact that they're not just selling children's playthings, but also pieces of modern mythology due to the nature of toy cartoons.

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Originally Posted by griffin

Parents who have the slightest knowledge of the brand or the cartoon, will prioritise the characters they know or recognise first... and they are the biggest consumer group for Hasbro to plan ahead for.

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In cases of parents who are buying for their own children- dead wrong! Parents who are that knowledgeable and are non-fans, are going to be so for one reason- taking an interest in their children's hobbies. So they're not going to be buying lead characters automatically; they're going to buy their child's favorite character.

If a child likes Bulkhead more than Prime, then what is that parent going to do- buy their child's favorite character in this instance, or Prime because he's the lead character?

The moment you deviate away from that to the parent/adult buying for a child of a friend or family member, then they're generally not going to be buying more than a deluxe or a basic sized figure anyway, so really marketing from that dangerous assumption about your core demographic (especially when you start talking about Megas or larger) has the potential to be highly counter-productive.

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

Except that the problem there is Griffin, that the Shelves will be clogged up with Wave 1 and by the time they clear out enough for retailers to order a new shipment, you'll be upto Wave 3 or 4.

This has happened in since the 2nd year of BW being out and has been a problem practically every single year since with one wave or another simply not arriving here.

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I already mentioned the different circumstances causing the current movie series to shelf-warm, but that is the only main-line that has done that on its initial release.
You're hating Hasbro for something that isn't true. You can't claim something has always occurred, when it has only occurred with the current mainline. You either need to show proof on such a wild claim, or first do some research to see if your opinion is even true.
Look through the sightings section, the various checklist/sightings archives and the news emails...

The only lines that had a big initial release that prevented/imited future waves here are - TF3
The lines that didn't shelfwarm enough to prevent future waves here:
TF2 - most waves released within a month of global release, with very little missed
Animated - most waves released within a month of global release, with very little missed
TF1 - first waves sold out so fast, there was a shortage by Christmas and scalpers were making a fortune
Classics - most waves released within a month of global release
Cybertron - all Waves released within a month of global release, and only missed one regular figure
Energon - most Waves released within a month of global release, and didn't miss many figures
Armada - No delays after the first wave, with most figures released here
RiD - Voyager/Mega class was skipped, but no delays after the first wave of the other sizes.
Beast Machines - Limited numbers of items were released, but no delays of waves after the first.
Beast Wars - only missed items during the transition from UK to US stock

Whenever we missed toys, it was late-wave items as Hasbro AU were winding up an old line in time for the next one. Not early or mid wave items due to shelfwarming. That only occured once with TF3.

Sources:
2011 movie checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=10945
2011 non-movie checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=10314
2010 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=9241
2008-2009 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=561
1996-2007 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/checklist.html

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In cases of parents who are buying for their own children- dead wrong! Parents who are that knowledgeable and are non-fans, are going to be so for one reason- taking an interest in their children's hobbies. So they're not going to be buying lead characters automatically; they're going to buy their child's favorite character.

If a child likes Bulkhead more than Prime, then what is that parent going to do- buy their child's favorite character in this instance, or Prime because he's the lead character?

The moment you deviate away from that to the parent/adult buying for a child of a friend or family member, then they're generally not going to be buying more than a deluxe or a basic sized figure anyway, so really marketing from that dangerous assumption about your core demographic (especially when you start talking about Megas or larger) has the potential to be highly counter-productive.

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Parents knowing all the specifics of their child's toy interests? - maybe if they were toy collectors themselves.
Most parents are too busy working a full-time job, doing the household chores, making sure the kids do their schooling, and running them around... and that's in the 2-parent homes with one or two kids. Make that a single parent, or a larger family, or even the extended family relative buying the gift, they have a lot of more important things to worry about or prioritise than memorising 50-odd Transformers characters, in just one of the many Transformers series, in just one of the many toy brands that their kid is currently interested in just this year.
First thought of a parent doing the christmas shopping for a dozen relatives and friends - my boy's into Transformers.... okay, who was in that movie... um this yellow car guy, and this truck... no wait, he already has a yellow car guy, because he got it for christmas last year from his uncle. The truck it is then. I don't think he has that one in his room full of toys.

It'd be nice to have parents be more pro-actively involved in their kids interests, but in todays busy (and often single-parent) world, there's not as much attention given to the specific details. Us fans might know the difference between the 20 different bumblebee toys released just before the TF3 movie, but to a non-fan parent, they are all Bumblebee... and if their kid already has one from the last movie because it was only 2 years ago, they aren't going to buy another one.

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Then you have the other things about Transformers- not every kid is going to automatically want Prime. Look at the way most of us as fans are about our favorite characters and the number of us who decided on that favorite as kids.

Yes Prime is the father figure, but Bulkhead is the "big brother" character of that show. How many kids are going to gravitate towards him.

Heck if it were just about the toys and leader characters, noone would give 2 hoots about Bludgeon, or even Fangry for that matter. It wasn't 20 year olds and 30 year olds who were making either popular at the time either.

This is the problem with Hasbro and retailers though- they simply can't seem to get their heads around the fact that they're not just selling children's playthings, but also pieces of modern mythology due to the nature of toy cartoons.

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Again, you're looking at it from the perspective of a collector/fan and not as a parent/gift-giver who make up the majority of sales. If it were down to fan-favourites driving sales we wouldn't have so many Bumblebe and Optimus toys with each series. Hasbro have repeatedly said that these are iconic characters for the common folk, who know of Transformers, but don't collect anything themselves. They just buy a toy or two for someone they know... and since they make up the bulk of purchases, Hasbro will keep pushing those iconic images as the foundation of their product lines... forever.

Just listen to parents in the stores when they are trying to decide on a particular toy (not just TFs), or work colleagues who watched the TF movies - they have certain familiarities, but you as a fan have to help them fill in the blanks... even character names. Most people at my work have seen one or more of the three TF movies, and even the people who enjoyed them, enjoyed them as a movie, but have no interest in buying any toys. As such, they don't memorise the details, to the point that most can only name the 4 main characters - Optimus, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream. The rest they usually describe by colour, by their alt-mode, or by what they did in the movie.
That's what Hasbro knows from market research, and that's why those characters make up the bulk of the assortments. Not for us fans who have favourites, or want one of each... but for the "dumb" masses who just grab what they recognise or remember.
This has worked well enough for Hasbro until TF3, because those main characters have been around on shelves continuously since 2007, and most haven't changed forms enough for a parent or kid who already has a Bumblebee/Optimus/Starscream to say, "I want the new Bumblebee/Optimus/Starscream toy".

Other sub-lines have failed or been flawed, but this was the first main-line that failed spectacularly, due to flawed Hasbro marketting & consumer research not being flexible enough to adapt to changed circumstances (assuming each new line will be seen by consumers as new, no matter how recent and similar it is to the previous line).

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Originally Posted by griffin

I already mentioned the different circumstances causing the current movie series to shelf-warm, but that is the only main-line that has done that on its initial release.
You're hating Hasbro for something that isn't true.

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No, I'm pointing out a flaw which has happened for over a decade. You on the other hand, are practicing blatant Hasbro apologetics here.

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Originally Posted by griffin

You can't claim something has always occurred, when it has only occurred with the current mainline. You either need to show proof on such a wild claim, or first do some research to see if your opinion is even true.
Look through the sightings section, the various checklist/sightings archives and the news emails...

The only lines that had a big initial release that prevented/imited future waves here are - TF3
The lines that didn't shelfwarm enough to prevent future waves here:
TF2 - most waves released within a month of global release, with very little missed
Animated - most waves released within a month of global release, with very little missed
TF1 - first waves sold out so fast, there was a shortage by Christmas and scalpers were making a fortune
Classics - most waves released within a month of global release
Cybertron - all Waves released within a month of global release, and only missed one regular figure
Energon - most Waves released within a month of global release, and didn't miss many figures
Armada - No delays after the first wave, with most figures released here
RiD - Voyager/Mega class was skipped, but no delays after the first wave of the other sizes.
Beast Machines - Limited numbers of items were released, but no delays of waves after the first.
Beast Wars - only missed items during the transition from UK to US stock

Whenever we missed toys, it was late-wave items as Hasbro AU were winding up an old line in time for the next one. Not early or mid wave items due to shelfwarming. That only occured once with TF3.

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Actually it was also mid wave items too. It's worth pointing out that we're in the mid-wave period with the DOTM line.

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Originally Posted by griffin

Sources:
2011 movie checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=10945
2011 non-movie checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=10314
2010 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=9241
2008-2009 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=561
1996-2007 checklist - http://www.otca.com.au/checklist.html

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Ok for starters there are glaring inaccuracies within the some of the lists, for example, Primal Prime and Urban Camo Ruination did turn up here as I saw the former in TRU Chatswood and the later in Target Tuggerah.

As to my point.

Non-movie toys:

1996- Black Arachnia, Tigertron and Buzzsaw never see release here- 2 of whom were core characters.

1997- we miss out on most of the US 96 line due to a changeover and the only Mega we get in (Inferno) had proved to be such a shelfwarmer that he was renamed Scavenger when he became a Transmetal.

1998- granted we lucked out that year.

1999- We miss out on the Fox Kids repaints, although regardless of how much you call this splitting hairs, I've already demonstrated core BW toys not turning up here.

2000- the vast bulk of the Beast Machines line.

2001- The Predacons in RiD with the exception of Megatron aren't released here.

2002- Rail Racer isn't released here or the Spychanger principal cast members

2003- I'll take your word for it, because I never saw the PL versions of Armada characters at retail.

2004- Omega Sentinel isn't released here, who was a mid-line release.

2005- Quickstrike, Sixshot, Overcast and Alpha Q and Prowl are missed by regular retailers (they only arrive in the country because of Casefresh.com)

2006- Soundwave is a near miss. Gets missed by the mainstream release and winds up being sold for half price. Great for fans and kids; bad for the business end of things.

2007- again, nothing is missed, but the Classics line is that small that it was going to be near on impossible to miss anything.

Movie toys:

As far as the movie toys go, I'll claim ignorance onshipping levels as I've generally been completely disinterested in the movie line.

I could check on the line from '08 to '10 but what I've posted proves a history of Hasbro Aust almost consistently having a problem in terms of missing case assortments in this country with Transformers lines.

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Originally Posted by griffin

Parents knowing all the specifics of their child's toy interests? - maybe if they were toy collectors themselves.
Most parents are too busy working a full-time job, doing the household chores, making sure the kids do their schooling, and running them around... and that's in the 2-parent homes with one or two kids. Make that a single parent, or a larger family, or even the extended family relative buying the gift, they have a lot of more important things to worry about or prioritise than memorising 50-odd Transformers characters, in just one of the many Transformers series, in just one of the many toy brands that their kid is currently interested in just this year.

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There is a significant difference between knowing the ins and outs of the lore of shows and toylines a child likes and knowing which characters in that line are the child's favourites. Likewise there is a difference between memorising 50-odd transformers as you put it, and knowing the 1-4 that that child regards as their favorites. Once they already have their favorites, then sure, it falls into that category, but the child's favorite character/s are going to be a factor.

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Originally Posted by griffin

First thought of a parent doing the christmas shopping for a dozen relatives and friends - my boy's into Transformers.... okay, who was in that movie... um this yellow car guy, and this truck... no wait, he already has a yellow car guy, because he got it for christmas last year from his uncle. The truck it is then. I don't think he has that one in his room full of toys.

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You're more describing the uncles, aunts and grandparents, or friends of the family there than parents, depending on how into the toyline the kid is (especially considering these days there are very few major toy brands on the market and action figure lines tend to differ from say, LEGO in terms of characters). Furthermore that buying demographic predominantly tends to be more Deluxe, Scout and Legends Class figures, while the main characters tend to be in the larger assortments (with the occasional smaller version of them).

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Originally Posted by griffin

It'd be nice to have parents be more pro-actively involved in their kids interests, but in todays busy (and often single-parent) world, there's not as much attention given to the specific details. Us fans might know the difference between the 20 different bumblebee toys released just before the TF3 movie, but to a non-fan parent, they are all Bumblebee... and if their kid already has one from the last movie because it was only 2 years ago, they aren't going to buy another one.

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I agree with the later part of it, but in the case of the former, as you're hardly talking about a parent being an expert in TFs when you're talking about them knowing which characters are the child's favorites when you're talking about child fans. I'd argue that that level of knowledge would be standard for any parent who was taking even a rudimentary interest in their child. While they're not going to know the difference between all 20 different versions of Bumblebee; if their child's favorite character is say, Bulkhead (to take the example of TF:P), then they are going to know the difference between Bulkhead and Prime.

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Originally Posted by griffin

Again, you're looking at it from the perspective of a collector/fan and not as a parent/gift-giver who make up the majority of sales. If it were down to fan-favourites driving sales we wouldn't have so many Bumblebe and Optimus toys with each series. Hasbro have repeatedly said that these are iconic characters for the common folk, who know of Transformers, but don't collect anything themselves. They just buy a toy or two for someone they know... and since they make up the bulk of purchases, Hasbro will keep pushing those iconic images as the foundation of their product lines... forever.

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You're contradicting yourself here, as there is a difference between a parent buying for a child and other adult gift givers buying for them.

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Originally Posted by griffin

Just listen to parents in the stores when they are trying to decide on a particular toy (not just TFs), or work colleagues who watched the TF movies - they have certain familiarities, but you as a fan have to help them fill in the blanks... even character names. Most people at my work have seen one or more of the three TF movies, and even the people who enjoyed them, enjoyed them as a movie, but have no interest in buying any toys. As such, they don't memorise the details, to the point that most can only name the 4 main characters - Optimus, Bumblebee, Megatron, Starscream. The rest they usually describe by colour, by their alt-mode, or by what they did in the movie.

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In terms of parents; you're at best, only looking at the parents of kids who are only exposed to the movie in a trend following manner and even then kids are going to have favourites, even if the parents can't remember the name and it's a case of "he really likes that silver car with the blades on his arms" [sideswipe] for example.

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Originally Posted by griffin

That's what Hasbro knows from market research, and that's why those characters make up the bulk of the assortments. Not for us fans who have favourites, or want one of each... but for the "dumb" masses who just grab what they recognise or remember.
This has worked well enough for Hasbro until TF3, because those main characters have been around on shelves continuously since 2007, and most haven't changed forms enough for a parent or kid who already has a Bumblebee/Optimus/Starscream to say, "I want the new Bumblebee/Optimus/Starscream toy".

Other sub-lines have failed or been flawed, but this was the first main-line that failed spectacularly, due to flawed Hasbro marketting & consumer research not being flexible enough to adapt to changed circumstances (assuming each new line will be seen by consumers as new, no matter how recent and similar it is to the previous line).

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Would this be the same marketing which has seen kids getting into video games and ditching action figures at increasingly younger ages? This has been Hasbro's problem though - when you follow marketing trends rather than setting them, you become stale, and sooner or later it catches up with you.

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

2000- the vast bulk of the Beast Machines line.

2001- The Predacons in RiD with the exception of Megatron aren't released here.

2002- Rail Racer isn't released here or the Spychanger principal cast members

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Most of the toys missed (especially during RiD) were Mega's. Thats a problem that can be blamed on BW Scavanger & BM Cheetor & Tankor. Retailers skipped Mega's completely until the size was renamed during Armada.

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

2004- Omega Sentinel isn't released here, who was a mid-line release.

2005- Quickstrike, Sixshot, Overcast and Alpha Q and Prowl are missed by regular retailers (they only arrive in the country because of Casefresh.com)

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These toys were all the tail end toys during Energon. We've always had a problem with that.

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Originally Posted by Demonac

Most of the toys missed (especially during RiD) were Mega's. Thats a problem that can be blamed on BW Scavanger & BM Cheetor & Tankor. Retailers skipped Mega's completely until the size was renamed during Armada.

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Which goes to show that both Hasbro and the retailers were asleep at the wheel. However I'm inclined to apportion more of the blame for that to Hasbro reps who should have been done a better job of pointing out how the line had done. The buyers might have been skittish, but the Japanese market research data combined with the fact that deluxes should have shelf-warmed should have been enough factors to push them over the line.

Furthermore, I fail to see why a late mega asst order couldn't have gone through a month after RiD hit the shelves when it was clear the line was a hit with kids, considering that we're talking about an entire market that's in the 10s of millions of consumers range (meaning that it is worth Hasbro's while to fire up the molds once again).

The other problem was how different size classes were determined. Wedge sold as a Basic in Japan and a Deluxe in the US, while the Predacon Trio and deluxe class Vs sets were sold as individual basics in Japan, which would arguable have had a positive effect on sales too.

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Originally Posted by Demonac

These toys were all the tail end toys during Energon. We've always had a problem with that.

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Actually our problem has always been more that we typically miss out on, say, waves 2 and 3, we'll get wave 4, then miss out of 5 and 6 and then get wave 7 and miss wave 8.

The only reason that the lack of toys is lower than it probably should be is that wave when the next order goes through, the wave that comes in is one which is comprised entirely of the figures in the gaps- meaning that generally the only gap missed is the last one.

That said, if it wasn't for BigW buying an entire wave of Voyagers, then we would have missed out on Soundwave in Cybertron, and that was a mid-line wave.

Hasbro International really needs to start looking at having 2 different wave streams- a US market stream where assortments are ideally set up for their markets, and a non-US one for where markets are only ordering, say, one wave out of every 3.

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

Which goes to show that both Hasbro and the retailers were asleep at the wheel. However I'm inclined to apportion more of the blame for that to Hasbro reps who should have been done a better job of pointing out how the line had done. The buyers might have been skittish, but the Japanese market research data combined with the fact that deluxes should have shelf-warmed should have been enough factors to push them over the line.

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This makes no sense. What does Japanese market research have to do with us here in Australia? And what do Deluxe's have to do with Mega's?

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

Actually our problem has always been more that we typically miss out on, say, waves 2 and 3, we'll get wave 4, then miss out of 5 and 6 and then get wave 7 and miss wave 8.

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Just looking at deluxe toys on the TF wiki, but it seems that we didn't miss much at all until the tail-end of a line. This is going back through to Armada. While some waves were harder to find, I bought pretty much everything locally at some point.

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

The only reason that the lack of toys is lower than it probably should be is that wave when the next order goes through, the wave that comes in is one which is comprised entirely of the figures in the gaps- meaning that generally the only gap missed is the last one.

That said, if it wasn't for BigW buying an entire wave of Voyagers, then we would have missed out on Soundwave in Cybertron, and that was a mid-line wave.

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A major retailer did release it here. So what's the problem?

Should 3/4 of this discussion be moved to it's own thread since it's not to do with HA Soundwave?;):p

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Originally Posted by Demonac

This makes no sense. What does Japanese market research have to do with us here in Australia? And what do Deluxe's have to do with Mega's?

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Japanese Market research data (and I imagine US market research would have been done also) would have indicated the line worked where BM didn't. In fact when I first saw RiD toys in this country at TRU Chatswood, I distinctly remember a parent commenting excitedly on how they were actually cars again. Market research data would have shown that that was going to be the general response.

Furthermore are you saying that parents and people buying for kids aren't going to be the main toy market and that therefore far more deluxes and basics are going to be sold than Megas due to cost (people might spend $30 on a child's friend for a birthday party, but they're not about to spend $50 on them). Bundling basics up as Deluxes or Megas pushes them into a higher price point and makes purchases of them less frequent.

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Originally Posted by Demonac

Just looking at deluxe toys on the TF wiki, but it seems that we didn't miss much at all until the tail-end of a line. This is going back through to Armada. While some waves were harder to find, I bought pretty much everything locally at some point.

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Which raises a couple of interesting points which goes back to what I was saying. You said you looked at deluxes only, but most of the 2nd sereis of BM toys were basics and almost all the villains in RiD were Megas or Supers. You bring up going back to Armada, which is interesting because RiD and Beast Machines had shocking omissions in what was available here (to the point where RiD had the practically the same bad guy availability as the Skeleton Warriors toyline did).

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Originally Posted by Demonac

A major retailer did release it here. So what's the problem?

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A major retailer picking it up as an exclusive in a bulk lot and selling it off at clearance prices in bundles is something you class as a near miss. It's a situation where something is avoided in spite of an endemic problem. We got lucky with Soundwave, but as nothing has changed, when will it happen again? Or will we be saddled with another situation like G1 colour scheme Movie Jazz, where people have to pay $50 to get a deluxe figure locally?

Why is it so "inconvenient" to say that Hasbro has become a victim of its own success through suffering from the apathy that comes from markets where there is a lack of competition.

This has been a long term problem and now it's starting to clearly make itself visible once more. Why shouldn't this be something Hasbro is criticised over (with an eye to them possibly re-evaluating their approach to case assortment arangements, be it through sitting down with retail buyers, different case assortments for foreign markets,etc)?