To me it's even simpler. What line did the moulds for the toys originally come from? That answers the question.
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To me it's even simpler. What line did the moulds for the toys originally come from? That answers the question.
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Honda Vtx1800N
the mini-cons they may be classics molds but (most, if not all) are new characters so they are armada characters in my mind.
As far as toy appearances in IDW, that's just cross promotion in my eyes, the toys weren't designed to be in the IDW-verse so I wouldn't say that Uni Prowl is IDW any more than G1 Prowl, same with Jetfire. granted this is all my opinion and is not gospel, for example I consider Skyfire and Jetfire separate characters!
The following is how I take all this since its all pretty much about the Universe Classics:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutsman Heavy
Sunstreaker, Prowl, Ironhide, Sideswipe, Octane, Galvatron, Silverbolt, Powerglide and other toys clearly representing G1 characters belong to ALL OF G1 not just any particular continuity.
Why? Because I take Classics not as a continuity but as 'modernizations' of classic G1 characters so they fit all G1 continuities where the character has appeared.
Minicons, Legends, etc? I don't give a damn about them so I didn't/will not buy them and they don't fit at all with the main G1 continuities aside from the very isolated Timelines comic. So when it comes to Minicons, I don't care.
So as far as I was concerned, minicons are not G1 because Classics for me is not a continuity but figures tributing classic G1 characters so when I see Henkei/Universe Prowl, to me he belongs to Marvel G1, Sunbow cartoon, DW, IDW, etc.
Reading all these posts... :confused:
It starting to make my head spin... :o
I think I need a shot of Machine Men to bring some sanity back :p
I apologise in advance if I misread something somebody said or whatever, as I did not sleep last night.
Hasbro resurrected the brand name Universe so that the line can have toys (new and old toolings) from all possible continuities and previous toylines.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Universe = universal. Everything and anything can be put in without being tied down to a particular design style or storyline. Plus, obviously, Hasbro planned this line to coincide with the 25th Anniversary, making it convienient for them to throw in characters and designs from EVERY continuity. No overall theme or story = you can do whatever you want.
I think Tomy might have some problems if they have to explain (storywise) why Beast Wars Cheetor is hanging around with Armada Hot Shot and G1 Hound, assuming they are all released in Henkei or some other line.
From what I can tell, the toys "belong" to whatever stated 'series' is printed on their packaging. For example, the 'Classics Series' characters are in a new G1 continuity of some sort where Galvatron (who is not an upgrade of the original Megatron) has reunited the scattered Decepticon forces, presumably after some significant Autobot victory. Naturally, you can also consider them 'any G1', because their bio stories don't specifically say what continuity or universe the story is based upon.Quote:
But Universe Prowl and Sunstreaker appear in the All Hail Megatron universe which appears to be utterly unrelated to the Universe universe.
Yeah, in All Hail Megatron, it just the case of IDW and Guido Guidi wanting to use the toys in their comic. Hasbro doesn't really use comics to promote toys anymore, I don't think.
In Hasbro's product line, Mini-Cons have only appeared in the Unicron Trilogy (with is connected to Timelines) and the Classics version of the Marvel G1 continuity (which is also connected to Timelines). The latter being a technicality because they were Cybertron toy molds, but the Cybertron line was ending, so they put them in Classics instead when the Movie release date was moved back.Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
Hasbro can declare these Mini-Cons as Armada (as in Unicron Trilogy) Mini-Cons for they are new characters, and thus, we can assume they were previously unseen in the Armada fiction. Part of it has to do with Brand Association. Armada was ridiculously successful. The kids who see Armada as *their* G1 maybe be attracted to a set of Mini-Cons who are sold as 'Armada series' merchandise, and generally people identify Mini-Cons as belonging to Armada.
Yeah but you have to admit that Hasbro sometimes slap the wrong 'series' on the toy. How the **** is Air Attack Optimus Primal an Autobot from RiD? :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by FFN
Yes, I know the history of the toy, and understand why it was released during the RiD era. But that doesn't mean the toy should have been marketed purely as an RiD Autobot, with no reference to Beast Machines.
The simple fact is that Hasbro marketing ppl often attach series names to toys without really knowing/caring (or whatever) which series label would be most appropriate.
In the case of the MiniCons, the fact that these MiniCon moulds got held back - coupled with the fact that the original versions were slapped with Classics marketing - makes them out of place to someone no matter what you call them.
I'm not going to get all "Archer is evil incarnate" about it, but Hasbro's sloppiness (at whatever level, for whatever reason) is the reason this is so controversial.
AAOP: Simple, convienience. Autobots were in, Maximals were out as the Transformers heroes. And presumably to create less confusion to their target demographic and the retailers. Be strange to have him in RID packaging and yet have absolutely nothing to do with RID.
Before somebody mentions different, BM-based packaging for him, there's the brand association. The TF brand at the time was RID, they hadn't done multiple concurrent lines yet, and considering Beast Machines was a dissapointment, they obviously didn't want to package such a large and expensive toy as a 'Beast Machines' product. The kids would have probably ignored him since he would have been part of last year's line.
Now, I don't get why you guys are so bent out of shape over the Mini-Cons being assigned to Armada, considering that they're not the same Mini-Con characters from the Classics line, so they can be Armada universe Mini-Cons who just happen to have the same body types as Mini-Cons from a different universe.
Armada is the most appropriate place for Mini-Con toys, so in they go (and its likely that when Hasbro say 'Armada series', they probably mean 'Unicron Trilogy', since the UT is an unofficial term, though used internally by Hasbro.)
That's because he has nothing to do with RiD. He should have been packaged as the Beast Machines toy he is, plain and simple. That's line relevance.Quote:
Originally Posted by FFN
Kids aren't stupid enough to forget Beast Machines after one year, despite the dumbing down that is so prevalent in marketing to children nowadays. Show me a kid who can't tell the difference between (in current terms) Movie Bumblebee and Animated Bumblebee - and where they belong - and I'll find a special needs school for him.
I don't get why you're so determined to defend the lazy efforts of Hasbro marketing.Quote:
Originally Posted by FFN
Show me where these toys appear in the Armada comic or cartoon.
Following your own logic from the AAOP debate, these Minicons should not be sold as Armada because kids won't recognise them as Transformers, since that line hasn't been around for five years.
I wouldn't object to them being labelled as Armada if there was a proper attempt to tie these moulds which were never released during that era to Armada. And the whole "Minicons are Armada" thing is a little weak considering we've seen Minicons under the Energon, Cybertron, Classics, Universe and Movie banners. Yes, fans associate Minicons with Armada, but not exclusively so. And kids today probably wont, since they've been in almost every subline since.
I won't base my decision to purchase this pack solely on the label, but since it's a fairly expensive pack of repaints with an interesting layout there's a fairly good chance that fans like myself would consider this pack as something to keep sealed. In which case the label becomes relevant. I probably wont get this set, since the repaints don't interest me, but the "Armada" label on it pretty much rules out buying to keep sealed. And I'm not bent out of shape about that, but Hasbro's lazy packaging may just have lost them a purchase.
What's AAOP? Not this I hope.
Air Attack Optimus Primal. The big BM Primal, released in RiD packaging.