Comic review: More Than Meets The Eye season 2: #28 onwards

"Aaaaaaaaand we're back"
A great start to the new season, really loving MTMTE being back.
This was a fun issue with some good comedic moments (Crewditions, death by face-palm, etc) some nice action and crew interactions.
Feeling really sorry for poor Domey, his depression is so heartbreaking, and having rewind's "I love you" replaced with a horrible scream is really disturbing.... (also it felt strange having him be completely silent when Op took him to Megs' cell)
The fight between Megs and Whirl was awesome and epic, and I really can't wait to find out who Whirl is working with.
So many good moments, and so many new mysteries and this is only the start of season 2, so glad I started reading this series.
Also I totally freaked out at the last page. (you know, when they found the you know what)

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

A very enjoyable issue, although Nautica's banter about her name bugs me. It seems that IDW's insistence on embedding the Transformers with Anglo-Terra-centricism is continuing... despite the fact that Nautica has _never_ been to Earth and wouldn't have had contact with Earth languages (let alone Modern English). And please don't tell me that this is all meant to be in "Cybertronian" and that it someone "translates" to Modern English, because I find that incredibly unlikely. It wouldn't even translate over to most other Earth languages, let alone to an alien language. *deep.sigh*

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I would just say don't think about it too much Goki, but how about this as an explanation.
During her interview Nautica mentions she changed her name from Nautical, because she likes the sound better without the 'L'. Chromia also mentions that Nautica reads, A LOT. Perhaps some of her reading material used the word nautical, so she picked up the word and took it on as a name.
We have after all seen other characters "randomly decide to change their names." (Have their names changed due to trademark issues)
Such as Goldfire, Trailcutter, Slug and Tall Tankor
So just take it as she learned the word from one of the books she read, and took it on as a name because she liked it and felt it fit her. :D

Yeah, but names like Goldfire, Trailcutter, Slug and even Tankor (uh) are translatable into other languages. For example, if we translated those names literally into Japanese they'd be:
* Goldfire = Kin'en (金炎; "gold flames"; also sounds the same as the word for "no smoking" :p)
* Trailcutter = Senro no Kirite (線路の切り手; "trail cutter")
* Slug = Dan'yaku (弾薬; "ammunition", "munitions")
* Tankor = Sensha (戦者; a play on words, the actual word for tank is Sensha (戦車), however I've replaced the last Kanji with mono (者), referring to one who does something -- in a sense it looks like a weird translation for "warrior," but the pronunciation is the same as the word for tank)

You can see that "Tankor" is already a fairly untranslatable name to another Earth language such as Japanese, but it is kinda doable. Remember that translation is about transferring ideas and concepts from one language to another, rather than transferring sounds or even spelling (not that all languages even use alphabets). "Weltuntergang" is a German word to describe the apocalypse or Armageddon, which literally means "world (welt) going (gang) under (unter)" -- Weltuntergang. Of course, it's easy to see English words in German since English is a Germanic language. It seems an all too remarkable coincidence that Nautica, who apparently has never been to "Eart," has somehow come across a derivative of the Latin word for sailor (nauticus), in the form that English uses it in the superlative inflection of "nautical," then coincidentally decides that she doesn't like the name ending with a lateral consonant and decides to remove it, thus reverting the word back to its original Latin feminine nominative & vocative case of nautica (or possibly ablative if she stresses the final vowel). :eek: Really? She's managed to learn that much about Earth languages... but yet she cannot pronounce the voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative /θ/ (thus "Eart")?!? Really? Oh wait, she's never been to Eart before... so somehow she's come across this Latin word from another alien culture... and... uh... I mean... it's possible, but it's IMMENSELY unlikely! :o

Marge: "You…you speak English!"
Kang: "I am actually speaking Rigellian. By an astonishing coincidence, both of our languages are exactly the same."
The Simpsons, Treehouse of Horror I

Yeah alright, a lot of Cybertronian names don't make sense as they are dependent on Earthen concepts which are probably untranslatable on Cybertron, such as "Bumblebee," "Hound," and "Jazz" (etc.). But I guess that I've just accepted that an suspend disbelief when, for example, playing War For and Fall Of Cybertron and hearing those names. But when the story focuses on it and plays with it, it then draws attention to something that, as a member of the audience, I've been suspending disbelief... without really providing any adequate explanation. There are a LOT of things in Transformers which are fundamentally absurd and we just suspend disbelief for - the same could be said for a lot of other scifi and fantasy stories. Fine... but you don't draw attention to it, because then it's kinda ruining the illusion and also creating an annoying distraction. It'd be like a magician showing a trick, but then also exposing a flaw to his/her trick. Of course, magic is all about distracting the audience's attention away from the 'flaws' and only allowing them to perceive the illusion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DajnbGDTidQ

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

It seems an all too remarkable coincidence that Nautica, who apparently has never been to "Eart," has somehow come across a derivative of the Latin word for sailor (nauticus), in the form that English uses it in the superlative inflection of "nautical," then coincidentally decides that she doesn't like the name ending with a lateral consonant and decides to remove it, thus reverting the word back to its original Latin feminine nominative & vocative case of nautica (or possibly ablative if she stresses the final vowel). :eek: Really? She's managed to learn that much about Earth languages... but yet she cannot pronounce the voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative /θ/ (thus "Eart")?!? Really? Oh wait, she's never been to Eart before... so somehow she's come across this Latin word from another alien culture... and... uh... I mean... it's possible, but it's IMMENSELY unlikely! :o

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I would never have made a fuss about it out loud, but yeah that kinda irked me too. :o :p

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Insert "Goki's special language lesson" here

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Aww, and here I thought I went all nightbeat and solved this... :o
You raise several good points though.
I forget did Nautica ever mention "eart" or was that only Windblade? Ontop of that the girls spent some time with Alpha Trion, Metroplex and most importantly Thunderclash (he's awesome and can do anything :p:cool:) so maybe she learnt a little human English from one of them.
Alternatively yes it could be the same as rigellian and modern cybertronian sounds remarkably like English. (old cybertronian clearly doesn't as evidenced by Vos and by Cyclonus' proud singing
Who knows, with everyhring IDW has touched on they may give you an explanation for the names sooner or later :D ;)

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Originally Posted by Firestorm

Aww, and here I thought I went all nightbeat and solved this... :o

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Sorry to Muzzle your sleuthing <bada-boom-tish> :p ;)

I don't recall Alpha Trion, Metroplex or Thunder Clash ever going to Earth in the IDWverse. :confused: It's not just this though, the IDW comics have long embedded Cybertronian society with notably Terran/Anglo-centricities. This is something that, IMO, Bob Budiansky was better at doing (as well as Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman if not for Michael Bay's influence :rolleyes:) -- reminding the audience that the Transformers are otherworldly aliens and not necessarily immediately familiar with Earth and humans.

We get it, you can read and speak and translate into other languages. You don't have to keep showing off and we're not students for you to educate. :rolleyes:

I feel like I've said this before but anyway:

If you're going to suspend disbelief that there are living robots in outer space, what they speak shouldn't be an issue. Is the book you want to see all in Cybertronian? The GIJoe/TF free comic book day shows you what that might look like. (Spoiler: it sucks)

You're reading the adventures of robots told by English speaking writers and artists. They translate things that these robots are saying in Cybertronian into language we understand.

Nautica's name is not Nautica. She hasn't come across Latin words. Her name is Cybertronain word that has to do with water which she has modified in some way that makes it sound more feminine; say she slowed the modulation 5% and raised the pitch 48% on the second waveform.

English writers have to translate this for English reading audience who don't commonly think about slowing modulation and raising pitch and waveforms. So they translate this into something we understand: they pick a water related term and drop a letter so they can make the equivalent type of wordplay.

People translating text from one language to another do this all the time. You did it yourself!

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Tankor = Sensha (戦者; a play on words, (the actual word for tank is Sensha (戦車), however I've replaced the last Kanji with mono (者), referring to one who does something -- in a sense it looks like a weird translation for "warrior," but the pronunciation is the same as the word for tank)

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You found a way to make the "Tankor" joke in Japanese without it be a literal translation. In fact you also said

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Remember that translation is about transferring ideas and concepts from one language to another, rather than transferring sounds or even spelling (not that all languages even use alphabets)

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And I totally agree. The writers are translating Cybertronian discussions, ideas and concepts into ones we can understand. Just the same way the translators producing the Spanish edition of MTMTE will be changing wordplay jokes into ones that Spanish readers will get.

And this means we can all enjoy the comic and that's the important thing! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

If you're going to suspend disbelief that there are living robots in outer space, what they speak shouldn't be an issue.

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Hence why I said...

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Yeah alright, a lot of Cybertronian names don't make sense as they are dependent on Earthen concepts which are probably untranslatable on Cybertron, such as "Bumblebee," "Hound," and "Jazz" (etc.). But I guess that I've just accepted that an suspend disbelief when, for example, playing War For and Fall Of Cybertron and hearing those names. But when the story focuses on it and plays with it, it then draws attention to something that, as a member of the audience, I've been suspending disbelief... without really providing any adequate explanation. There are a LOT of things in Transformers which are fundamentally absurd and we just suspend disbelief for - the same could be said for a lot of other scifi and fantasy stories. Fine... but you don't draw attention to it, because then it's kinda ruining the illusion and also creating an annoying distraction. It'd be like a magician showing a trick, but then also exposing a flaw to his/her trick. Of course, magic is all about distracting the audience's attention away from the 'flaws' and only allowing them to perceive the illusion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DajnbGDTidQ

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

Is the book you want to see all in Cybertronian? The GIJoe/TF free comic book day shows you what that might look like. (Spoiler: it sucks)

You're reading the adventures of robots told by English speaking writers and artists. They translate things that these robots are saying in Cybertronian into language we understand.

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Yes, that's fine. But it becomes difficult to continue suspending disbelief that we are reading translated Cybertronian when they started saying things that are essentially untranslatable due to being far too Terra/Anglo-Centric. Other stories commonly use existing Earth languages to represent off-world languages, e.g.
+ Star Wars; Modern English = Galactic Basic
+ Star Wars; Mongolian = Ewokese
+ The Hobbit/LotR; Modern English = Westron (a.k.a. Common Tongue)
+ The Lord of the Rings; Old English = Rohirrim
...etc.
With the possible exception of Ewokese (which was basically Ben Burtt recording story-tellers, so they're possibly tribal folk tales), these languages don't make direct linguistic or cultural references from Earth that don't translate over to those worlds.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

Nautica's name is not Nautica. She hasn't come across Latin words. Her name is Cybertronain word that has to do with water which she has modified in some way that makes it sound more feminine; say she slowed the modulation 5% and raised the pitch 48% on the second waveform.

English writers have to translate this for English reading audience who don't commonly think about slowing modulation and raising pitch and waveforms. So they translate this into something we understand: they pick a water related term and drop a letter so they can make the equivalent type of wordplay.

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Yeah, I have no problem with Nautica's name as it stands. It's no better or worse than other Latin based Transformer names like Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus. What bugs me is the whole 'it was Nautical, but she didn't like her name ending with a lateral consonant so she changed it to Nautica"... thus implying that by some massive intergalactic fluke, the Cybertronian word for "Nautical" happens to bear phonetic similarity to that in Latin-derived English. It's too English-specific IMO. I would've preferred something like, "She didn't like the sound of the last consonant," -- no need to describe it, just say she didn't like it. Or just invent some phonological term that cannot be tied w/ reality -- similar to how some writers create fictional elements so as not to contradict with known science (e.g. Adamantium, Vibranium, Cybertronium, Destronium, Kryptonite, Unobtainium etc.). If you try to use something from the real world to do something that it can't, like saying creating nuclear fission from tritium, or Jetfire stepping out of the Smithsonian in Washington straight into a desert in Arizona (even Bay admits that this doesn't make sense in the DVD audio commentary) etc.; then it's harder for the audience to suspend disbelief.

I don't have a problem with derivated names like Nautica, Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus etc. Let's face it, all names from Cybertron are derivations. It's just when they start making explicit references to English phonology in the name that I'm no longer to suspend disbelief in that moment. Seeing elements that make the Transformers, particularly those who have never been to Earth, seem too Terra-centric, kinda spoils the fantasy... like seeing Bigfoot with a wristwatch. ;)

So does anyone think the missing nucleon rods, pyro bots, letters and numbers, the change in Rewinds recording and the dray blast all may have something to do with the ships history? We know Nightbeat was intrigued by the ship when he found out Hotrod had the Lost Light...

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Originally Posted by i_amtrunks

So does anyone think the missing nucleon rods, pyro bots, letters and numbers, the change in Rewinds recording and the dray blast all may have something to do with the ships history? We know Nightbeat was intrigued by the ship when he found out Hotrod had the Lost Light...

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Probably. Is Nighbeat on The Lost Light now? Or was he just ruining Swerve's fun because he could?

He's on board, the scene with him and Skids checking on Chromedome is "today".

All those things "missing" must be connected, but I assume it's also connected in someway to what Megatron says about rewriting history: "every day, little edits"... As if someone is editing the Lost Light in a physical way. Another behind the scenes villain perhaps?