The Soapbox XI: Battle of the Cityformers

In the comic the only Transformer depicted in the same "cityformer" sense as the cartoon was Metroplex.

I don't recall either Fortress Maximus or Scorponok ever transforming into city mode. Fort Max's was shown in his Universe entry and he turned into battle station mode a few times (by the way it floats), but for all the comic book readers knew Scorponok only transformed into a scorpion.

Both were also only shown as tall Transformers. I know they rebuilt Fort Max to be bigger in his first main title appearance, but he was rarerly shown to be much bigger than roughly three times the average height in subsequent appearances.

Omega and Trypticon were also both shown as very big robots in their comic debuts but seem to shrink in subequent appearances (particularly Omega). Did Trypticon turn into city mode in "King of the Hill"? I only recall the battle station.

Metroplex however in his one and a page issue appearance was a giant robot (698 feet tall) but as Skyshadow mentioned his city mode was never toy-accurate and was instead shown to be Autobot City: Earth. (And that was actually more of a Pretender Shell).

Comparing characters like Scorponok and Metroplex from the comic point of view really doesn't make much sense.

So you need to approach this soapbox from STL's admitted cartoon biased perspective.

Althought that does kind of rule out Overlord too which means it's more a toy thing... which if I was just going by toys I would vote Fort Max.

I'm curious as to why you say that Trypticon was "the only ever Decepticon Cityformer in G1" before listing two more Decepticon Cityformers from the same era.

Also, for anyone wanting a larger version of the Dinobots vs Trypticon image, here it is.

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Originally Posted by SilverDragon

I'm curious as to why you say that Trypticon was "the only ever Decepticon Cityformer in G1" before listing two more Decepticon Cityformers from the same era.

Also, for anyone wanting a larger version of the Dinobots vs Trypticon image, here it is.

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The irony is that it seems that the pic is inspired by a memorable scene in the Marvel comics. I had a bit of a giggle on that due to the cartoon (1985-1986) 'inclinations' of this soap box regarding Cityformers. However Trypticon was indeed more prominent in the cartoon than the Comics, mentioning that just to be fair.

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Originally Posted by SilverDragon

I'm curious as to why you say that Trypticon was "the only ever Decepticon Cityformer in G1" before listing two more Decepticon Cityformers from the same era.

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I'd put it down to poor drafting. :o :o :o What I actualy meant was the Decepticon Cityformer who actually got much screen time.

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Originally Posted by Sky Shadow

Obviously not if you were a child in Japan (or Malaysia or Singapore, etc.) And the Overlord toy was also released to us westerners in 1991 which - nostalgic-childhood-wise - pre-dates Beast Wars. And he had a funky tech-specs bio and back-of-the-box mythology to keep us excited, which was as much as most Transformers got.

Even if people were blinkered by just watching the western cartoon and never watching, reading or playing with anything else ever, that's still not much less in the way of character appearances than Metroplex. And as Goktimus and Dirge said, Scorponok is one of the Decepticons with the richest comic and most nostalgic comics histories. Plus, Scorponok's death in TFUS #75 was the most tear-jerking moment in all of G1 other than Optimus Prime's death.

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One of the things I really didn't define as part of the discussion was that this was a purely more Western based view of things. Henceforth, why the neglect for Japanese Cityformers and characters Overlord was included b/c I remembered him from my childhood though I never got him b/c of the catalogues that were incldued. It was not till when I returned to TF collecting over a decade later that I realised his sheer scale.

It might not be entirely true for everyone but I felt that most Australian fans who grew up here definitely did not have teh same exposure to the japanese stuff. It was more later on when you came back as an adult that that interest about different parts of the TF universe came to light.

With the comics, as mentioned below, I felt that they weren't as relevant given the parameters I'd set myself. Of course, it didn't help that I failed to communicate those parameters but once you start factoring in the comics it becomes very subjective as to certain people, the TFUS comics weren't that memorable and standout. It's the cartoon. Having read them, I barely even remember Scorponok's death. I remember about as much of it as I remembered the Ratbat car wash issue or the wrestling issue. To me, the comics aren't as pertinent as the cartoon as not every single TF fan has necessarily been exposed to them to the same level of the cartoon. Hence, why it wasn't included.

I can certainly sympathise with affection for the Marvel US/UK comics but in my own discussion, I felt I never had enough of an attachment to the fiction nor was it as widespread enough to include in my discussion.

But that said, I think it's absolutely great that yourself and others are bringing up canonical moments involving the "Cityformers" where I didn't b/c it definitely exposes the rest of us to what others view as powerful moments in TF comic history. I have no issues with this branching out into a discussion of Cityformers as a whole as one of my stated aims of the Soapbox is to start up more discussion on different facets of TFs.

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Originally Posted by Sky Shadow

:confused:

I think any thesis that comes to the conclusion that Metroplex is better than Omega Supreme, Trypticon, Scorponok, Overlord and Fortress Maximus has an intrinsic flaw somewhere in its logic. I would rank Metroplex below all of those other toys and characters. He transforms from a robot to a non-representational pile of junk to a non-representational pile of junk with wheels. It is rare that any medium presents his base mode as anything that resembles his toy form. And as a character he has barely a dozen appearances ever.

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Well, I think we'll have to disagree there. I certainly didn't think he was a pile of junk and he imposed himself well in all his modes to me as well as as a character. My conclusion was on trying to balancing (cartoon-childhood) nostalgia with toy quality and I think certain toys didn't live up to it and I'm more than happy to read why other people like their choices

One of the more interesting issues I'd hope would come up in discussions was asymmetry vs. symeetry for Cityformers. I personalyl don't like symmetry but am keen to see what others think.

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Originally Posted by Sky Shadow

Overall, STL, I found this an odd soapbox. I think it would have been more coherent if it were written in the first person as opinions, but a lot of it seems bizarrely illogical when stated as third-person facts.

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Thanks for the feedback, I'll definitely take it on board going forward.

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Originally Posted by liegeprime

Hmm Metroplex does fit being most playable but size wise, if your gonna diss Omega about it, well you should Metroplex even more, since he's supposed to be more massive,

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:o My bad. :o It did definitely cross my mind in the planning process but I must've lost it in the write up process

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Originally Posted by dirge

Some clarifications please...

1) Scorponok's comic appearance. While the _city_ element wasn't prominent, the character was very much highlighted in the G1 Marvel comic. I'm sure a lot of longer time fans will find Scorponok to be quite a nostalgia-heavy toy. Your thoughts on Scorponok, taking into account his significance in the comic?

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As per below, I left it out b/c the comic to me was never part of what I knew to much later and when I wrote this, I approached it more from a returned fan and cartoon bias.

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Originally Posted by dirge

2) Countdown. Sure the robot is tiny... but the rocket base is as much of a city as most of those mentioned above (and more of one that Omega Supreme in some ways). Your thoughts?

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Another cartoon bias issue. :o

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Originally Posted by dirge

3) You seem to be critical of the asymmetry in Trypticon & Overlord. Why no mention of the asymmetry in Metroplex?

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Definitely a good point there. I think I alluded to it in my comments to the diverse terrain that it captures but clearly its something I needed to push harder as I do think its one of Metroplex's definite strengths.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

So you need to approach this soapbox from STL's admitted cartoon biased perspective.

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That's definitely a large part of it and it was an oversight on my behalf to not define the parameters of the Soapbox. it definitely didn't take the comics into account all that much. Having read them much later after the cartoon, I factored it out and based in mroe on G1 cartoon bias.

I wanted them all as a kid, but nowadays I wonder why, I couldn't even bring myself to buy Encore Omega Supreme.

Thusly Scorponok gets my vote as the only one who left a lasting impression, thanks to the comics, plus his third mode,as a Scorpion actualy looked like something. Fort Max would come in second as he also had a personality something rare in a city-former. :D

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

Both were also only shown as tall Transformers.

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This is true. ;) Scorponok was shown to be the same size as other G1 leaders like Powermaster Optimus Prime and Shockwave - and Fortress Maximus was about the same size as Galvatron! Although scale wasn't consistent - Fort Max seemed huge when he fought off the Decepticon Pretender Beasts in the snow.

Trypticon was a big bugger in the comics. And not a very fuel efficient one either - he was recalled in mid-battle against the Dinobots because he had expended the mission's fuel budget! ;)
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The battle between Fortress Maximus and Galvatron in Canada is one of my all time favourite melee fights in G1... seeing Galvatron tearing Fort Max's circuitry out with his _bare teeth_... that's hardcore!

In terms of the cartoon, my favourite cityformer would have to be Fortress Maximus in The Headmasters. Yeah, he's full of cheese, but I like him! Comic Fort Max was the commander of the Autobot starship Steelhaven - but animé Fortress Maximus was the Autobots' battlecruiser! That's freakin' COOL! And the activation sequence for his main transformation was very typically over-dramatic, but again in a neat shounen-animé kind of way that you never get sick of... like Voltron's merge sequence! Each time I'd see Fortress reach for his sword in that console, I just get this buzz of excitement! Then the theme song plays and he holds aloft his magic sword and says, "By the power of GRAYSKULL!Transform Head On!" Video link on!

I know that Fort Max and Scorponok were portrayed as giants in the US cartoon too - but we didn't get that same sense of scale and awe compared to the animé. Metroplex was especially gargantuan in Scramble City... too bad the animation is riddled with errors* and the story totally sucks ball bearings. :/

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I went for Metroplex, though mostly due to childhood-cartoon-induced nostalgia.

I voted for Fortress Maximus who only just edged out Omega Supreme.

I always thought Omega represented the final stand for the Autobots in the G1 Cartoon and was always an imposing force, who instilled fear into many Decepticons (like Starscream!)

I like Fort Max in the comics and its a pity he wasnt in enough American G1 cartoon episodes.

As a toy though, Fort Max wins hands down due to sheer size, detail and imposing prescence.

Out of the bunch the one I like least is the one I actually own... Metroplex! He is such a stupid excuse for a toy and just highlights a sharp decline for the Transformers brand. I agree with previous posts that his base mode and his 'car' mode are pretty much lazy, badly thought out, nonsense.

I picked Omega Supreme as the best because I have a few fond memories of his character in the G1 series.

Having been born in '84, I missed Transformers as it was first released - I grew up on the Japanese series' (Headmasters through to Victory - Malaysian dub all the way - oh god)

That said, I never got me an Overlord toy - and am pretty sure he didn't really get much of a 'city' function in the cartoon at all... heh -

With Scorponok and FortMax, they got PLENTY of airtime in Headmasters - I only just recently watched Rebirth - so... those versions of Scorpy and FortMax really paled in comparison to the childhood memories of the Japanese series...

I still want me a proper Japanese release Fort Max with Mastersword and all... d;