The Soapbox XIII: Necessary Evils

I really don't think ROTF was "necessary" at all! I don't think it added anything to the fandom. In response to your suggestions (just my opinion btw)...

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Originally Posted by STL

The concept of a combiner has been turned on its head with the ROTF Devastator. The discussions and the paradigm that a combiner must be individual robots has all been but turned on its head. ROTF Devastator is a giant who is a combination of a whole lot of vehicles that form one sentient being. In turn this raises questions as to sentience though. Do each of the vehicles have a sentience of their own? Or is it collective?

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I see your point but it wasn't really that innovative... Energon Optimus Prime combined with his Prime Force back in 2004/05. They were drones!

Plus we had Shockwave's "mindless" drones and sentinels in G1 anyway, and they seemed to function okay...

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Originally Posted by STL

The Matrix.

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Yeah, so now all the Matrix is supposed to do is blow up suns... Brilliant Mr Bay! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by STL

The 13.

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Do you mean the seven?


This review on Toplessrobot summs it up perfectly for me...

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If they wanted to protect Earth, why did they leave the Matrix on the planet? They're a space-faring race, they could have hid it anywhere in galaxy! Second of all, what the **** does making a tomb of their own bodies do? Shouldn't they have stayed alive to protect the Matrix? Or finish off the Fallen? Or just not die and leave Earth and the entire Transformer race in jeopardy?

And why hide the Matrix at all? Don't they need Energon to survive? Didn't they say they go to other lifeless planets? These idiot Primes just doomed their whole species for no ****ing reason whatsoever! No wonder the Decepticons are so p!ssed.

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I don't think we should ever remember these guys!

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by STL

The Seekers. The explorers who sought out different worlds.

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So, basically, it's the same term we've always had but it's just changed context... so one could argue the 1984 wave of G1 Autobots were in fact called Seekers?

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Originally Posted by STL

Can TFs be grown from little cocoons as Starscream did?

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Aren't they just protoforms? Seen them before too.

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Originally Posted by STL

TF history. How long have the TFs been on Earth? Who else is out there?

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Well, we know when all the main characters from TF1 arrived on earth, including Megatron. Who else is out there?... Well, whatever other crappy robot Michael Bay dreams up and wants to include I guess?!

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Originally Posted by STL

Twins.

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G1 had Sideswipe & Sunstreaker

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Originally Posted by STL

The Matrix's own sentience. Sacrificing of sparks.

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I don't think the Matrix was self-aware... it seemed to be a device for operating the Solar Harvester... and, when not inside a sock, bringing Optimus back to life (which Sam's Allspark shard could have already done anyway :rolleyes:)

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Originally Posted by STL

Certainly, the story doesn't bring it together effectively but one cannot deny those elements and layers being added to the TF mythos and that's certainly a win for us.

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Sorry, I really don't see it. What exactly did Michael Bay give us that were new, layered additions? :confused:

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Originally Posted by STL

It's pretty damn inexcusable to be honest. The core characters to a movie yet there's so little of their character. That's an unqualified fail if I've ever seen one. Sure, it might be a soulless Michael Bay movie but surely at some affording some of your characters with a bit of personality and lines couldn't have hurt. Really why is that Mark Ryan guy even needed to do Bumblebee's voice. He never even says a word.

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100% agree!!

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Originally Posted by STL

The longevity of TFs is critical to its success as a franchise. What ROTF does is make Transformers big. It makes the brand big. It keeps in the minds of a generation. Much like you still see Matrix or Pirates of the Carribean still on the shelves, it will keep TFs on the shelves.

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Sorry, I don't agree. TFs would be on the shelves with or without ROTF.

As for making TFs "Big"... I think it made it big and stupid! It really hurts me to say this. I love Transformers, but I am utterly ashamed of that movie. It's not even a movie - it has no story or continuity whasoever. It's a commercial made by a Director who doesn't know/understand/give a sh!t about the product!

Worst of all, it's made us Transfans look like idiots! I feel really sad when I read a review of another Sci-Fi film (District 9) and the opening sentence is this...

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It is universally acknowledged (at least by those who don't play with Transformers toys) that the best science fiction stories are those that use the devices of aliens, robots, and space ships to illustrate some greater truth.

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We've all been lumped in to the same stupid bin as Michael Bay! :mad:

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Originally Posted by Sky Shadow

As a Transformers franchise, the 200X movies save me a lot of money. I don't buy a year's worth of toys, DVDs, merchandise, comics - heck, for ROTF I didn't even have to pay to see the film or for my popcorn or drink. The entire movie universe is a triviality to me

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100% agree! ROTF has been fantastic for my G1 Transformers, MOTUC, & DCUC collecting! I'm not spending any more on ROTF - not even buying the DVD!!!

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Originally Posted by Hereticpoo

Maybe Live action TF will go the way of Batman? 4 shitty movies (Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Batman and Robin) before someone comes along and puts it right.

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That wouldn't be too bad. We would at least get some good movies eventually
I cant wait for Transformers: The Dark Bot

ROTF is crap as my dogs behind!!

It's a kid's movie, that their dad who liked TFs as a kid, takes them along to see... So the US military* can recruit them when they flunk school.

I also believe that one fo the main factors for it's success is that it's riding in on the successs of the first movie. All of my friends liked the first, none liked the second, "especially the twins".

Mr. Bay may be crass but he's not stupid. Transformers has become a huge franchise again and he knows how to milk it, as do Hasbro.

I have Sideways (cos I enjoyed playing as him in the Revenge of the Sideways PC game... many Autobot's died at the end of his scope), Ravage (cos it's Ravage) and Buster Prime (cos it's a good toy) on order - the Human Alliance line may also be bought.

I enjoyed Animated alot but I only have Activators Bumblebee from that line, I don't equate toy collecting with storylines - but then I also take a strange sense of achievement in NOT having a huge collection. :p


* At least he's prepared them for the tea-bagging...

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Originally Posted by Tober

* At least he's prepared them for the tea-bagging...

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Tober! I was trying to drink as I read that!

(Fortunately I wasn't trying to drink tea, but still...)

I don't know if necessary evil is appropriate, but I'd rather have ROTF than have no new TF movie at all. Yeah ok in the end the movie was pretty damn bad, but for me it generated much excitement and renewed my interest in TF's which was starting to nosedive. Anticipation of the movie and a whole new line of toys and the general raising of Transformers profile in the public eye excited me. And that in itself is worth something to me. I go by the old adage that getting there is half the fun, and there's a lot be said for anticipation. With toy acquisitions for example I tend to leave my toys in the package for a while to build anticipation. Sometimes you open the toy and its a let down, but when its good its even better than opening the toy straight away.

In the long run ROTF turned out to be a let down, but it wasn't until my second viewing that I came to this conclusion, in truth I was carried along to that point by the momentum of ROTF's build up, and the movies flashy action scenes carried me through the first viewing. I know the movie had many naysayers since day one who said it would suck and so on and so forth, and it would be easy for me to have gone along with them to. but what was the point for me? There was no joy to be had there, I'd rather take the optimistic upbeat path on this and be let down after a long trip, then one long downer till a kick in the backside.

So in the end yeah crap movie but I enjoyed the ride, and I'd do it all again to.

As for the toys, I was looking forward to them with or without a movie. For me they are a nice change from the usual cartoony world of Transformers. And they are the only mainstream line since G2 that actually turn into existing vehicles (not fictional but quite close to real ones). And while the Autobots do have some weird heads, I like the idea of Decepticons as bestial alien robeasts. i've ended up getting quite a few of them, but in fact while the movie may have helped a little I continued my collection based on the strength of the previous toy purchased rather than whether they were some big guy in the movie, and while there were some losers, for me there were more winners.

Of course I was starting to feel a little TF starved after last year. Animated for me was what this years ROTF line is for others, Stylistically not for me, and my first experience with a toy from the line was fraught with falling of limbs and breakage. :(

I suppose this doesn't really relate all that much to the discussion of ROTF as a necessary evil, but I just felt it was a good point to share my thoughts on the movie now that its has come and gone.

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Originally Posted by Hereticpoo

Maybe Live action TF will go the way of Batman? 4 shitty movies (Batman, Batman Returns, Batman Forever, Batman and Robin) before someone comes along and puts it right.
The only way from here is up! :D

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Hey Batman was great, 20 years ago.

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Originally Posted by Robzy

Worst of all, it's made us Transfans look like idiots! I feel really sad when I read a review of another Sci-Fi film (District 9) and the opening sentence is this...

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It is universally acknowledged (at least by those who don't play with Transformers toys) that the best science fiction stories are those that use the devices of aliens, robots, and space ships to illustrate some greater truth.

We've all been lumped in to the same stupid bin as Michael Bay!

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I disagree, we've always looked like idiots. :p As grown ups who collect toys where right up there with Star Trek convention geeks, and Star Wars nerds dressed as Jedi. The only reason TF's get a mention by this reviewer is because ROTF was the blockbuster event of the year, had this review been written last year it would probably have mentioned something about Indiana Jones and a fridge.

Besides I don't recall there being a greater truth in the original TF animated movie.

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Originally Posted by Tober

It's a kid's movie, that their dad who liked TFs as a kid, takes them along to see... So the US military* can recruit them when they flunk school.

I also believe that one fo the main factors for it's success is that it's riding in on the successs of the first movie. All of my friends liked the first, none liked the second, "especially the twins".

Mr. Bay may be crass but he's not stupid. Transformers has become a huge franchise again and he knows how to milk it, as do Hasbro.[/SIZE]

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Too true!

It wasn't a necessary evil, just good ol' hollywood and co milking money out of something they knew would score while simultaneously sapping a little more creativity from the world and forcing the masses to become more accustom to mediocrity. All so they can continue to shove crap down our throats. When you find yourself trying to excuse it -as I have- as "just an action movie" you realize how bad it really has become.

Action movies can and should be great... with plots and characters who you can love and get behind. ROTF had a plot that had clearly suffered under the writers strike, and characters who -when not displaying flip-flopping, soulless, cardboard cut out personalities- would disappear just as you started to enjoy them.

Nah, ROTF was inexcusably bad. Sadly another example of explosive creative potential falling victim to Hollywood exec greed and all the other schmucks in suits -and directors caps- who don't share a creative bone between them.

The first movie followed by animated was enough to revive interest in the TF mythos. The first movie was great, it was a fun little action packed romp. :D

I wouldn't see it as a necessary evil. To label RotF as 'evil' implies that there was no way it could have been better-which it could have been. The first film, while not perfect, was better in many ways. This proves that it's not simply a case of just 'oh this is as good as we can be' as it is a case of a big drop in quality.

Even without RotF, the franchise would still be going on-it survived for nigh-on 20 years without a blockbuster film (I don't count TFTM as one since it didn't open in enough cinemas to count, and so had a limited cultural impact outside of Transfandom).

The unfortunate thing about RotF is that while it rakes in the cash (and so benefits whatever the next TF project Hasbro is working on), it really screws with the popular image of the franchise.

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Originally Posted by Tober

It's a kid's movie, that their dad who liked TFs as a kid, takes them along to see... So the US military* can recruit them when they flunk school.

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A kid's movie? Since when did a kid's movie have many uses of explicit language, near-rape, Skankatron, and, well, stuff like that?

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Originally Posted by SilverDragon

A kid's movie? Since when did a kid's movie have many uses of explicit language, near-rape, Skankatron, and, well, stuff like that?

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About the same time that the MPAA slapped a PG-13 rating on it. Released during the holiday season with a massive kids toy-line to support it... Irrespective of content this was aimed at family groups - lowest common denominator material.

And the M rating in Australia is like... pfftt. The M rating is defined as "Recommended for mature audiences." Recommended. This means that there's no enforcement for under 15s to go see the movie. It's like a serving suggestion on food packaging - we _suggest_ that you do it, but you don't have to if you don't wanna! And you don't even need adult supervision.

I think if the movie was truly intended for mature audiences then it would have an MA15+ rating (which is defined as "Not suitable for people under 15. Under 15s must be accompanied by a parent or guardian.")