i did the exact same thing because i couldnt wait to see how it all went, i didnt even want airazor but she was better than the crab thingQuote:
Originally Posted by Paulbot
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i did the exact same thing because i couldnt wait to see how it all went, i didnt even want airazor but she was better than the crab thingQuote:
Originally Posted by Paulbot
Ha, i watched it on Youtube :pQuote:
Originally Posted by griffin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp
And.....? Do I get to watch the shows next? :D
We didn't have YouTube in 1997! :p I still have the Siren Entertainment poster (and giant foam store display) advertising the release of Beast Wars on VHS! :D
So what are your thoughts on it so far?
What do you think of Megatron? I, for one, think he's great. Not only since he actually has plans that last for more than one episode, but also because he's hilarious. YEEEEESSSS...
Beast Wars Megatron is brilliant, and his evolution as a character throughout the series is impressive and at times unexpected.
OK the moment many people the world over have been waiting for:
OK I give Beast Wars (Season 1)
6.5/10
The reason it rated so high was that it is still Transformers, now that will come as an insult to many of you but the people that know me will not be insulted at all. They will realise that I used to refuse to admit that BW was even made; I hated it so much that I blocked it out of my mind, that said the 6.5 should look a lot rosier to you all.
I do believe that I wasn't drawn to it as much as other series as there was the lack of human interaction; I feel that this left me not feeling close to the show or believing it as much. I know it's damm hard to believe 20ft robots that transform in the first place but I felt more withdrawn from the series for that reason.
IMO they could have done the show and had a more appealing intro, I saw my first episode and only through perseverance I made it through the intro.
Another downfall IMO it lacked characters, by that I mean in number.
Keep in mind that I am going to sit down and watch season 2 so please leave out spoilers for me.
No flaming
This is my opinion and it has come a long long way. Bear in mind that I wouldn't even rate BW a 0/10 as I used to hate it so much that I would not rate something that I pretended did not happen.
hmm...That didn't really say much but anyway. I guess you were in a 'TrukkNotMunky' phase as you refused to acknowledge it even before watching it so you going through the first season is a good effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp
Pretty fair comment and ranking Soundwarp. When STL started watching BW series one I suggested giving him a list of key plot episodes, because in my opinion there's quite a few episodes you could skip in the first series and not be any worse off.
You've listed some of the negatives, but I'd be interested to know what you think are some of the positives/highlights?
But also given the posts STL's thread, I think somepeople might drop spoilery hints about season two and three in follow up posts. Maybe come back to this thread once you've seen the next season?
Personally, I would not be not be as much of a Transformer fan today if it wasn't for Beast Wars. It added so much to the fictional G1 Universe and its influence continues on even in modern fiction in different Transformer lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulbot
I also don't understand why people went into such rages with BW to the point that they refused to acknowledge its existence, thankfully that's very rare now but I still don't understand why people even refused to give it a go.
I have watched all the TF series and although I really dislike and even hate some of them, I did experience them before making up my mind but even so there are much worse lines out there deserving of fan rage much more than BW.
Headmasters was Craptacular but a good cure for insomnia:D. As everyone has said before watch season 2 as I think you'll enjoy it, I really can't say much more with out giving things away so I'll leave it at that;).
It is a pity about the small cast, and very rarely do you see more than a 4 or 5 on screen at one time... but that was just a sign of the time. CG animation was so new, this show was breaking new ground every year with what a fully CG animated cartoon could do. I remember them saying that they quite often crashed their computers because of how much they tried to cram in with characters, movement and visual effects. So it wasn't a matter of limiting the cast on purpose, it was instead working stories around the small number of characters they could have on screen at any one time (in the earlier episodes at least). A positive side effect though was that we got a lot more depth to the stories and characters, and not just episodes of mass intros, that gets confusing.
And this is why Michael Bay injected so many human characters into the live action movie. Human characters help audiences to empathise and relate to alien characters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp
I'm not saying that it's an inherit flaw of BW - in fact, a lot of Transformers fans prefer having little to no human presence (and a lot of fans don't like how the movie is so human-centric) - but at the same time it is true that having humans in TFs does make it easier to relate.
Yeah, the opening and closing theme music sucks. :/ Beast Wars II has the best music (Cyber Nation Network) and I like the music from the BW movie and BW Neo too. But I usually skip past the opening/closing on the Canadian series. (-_-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp
Still... gotta give them points for trying something original instead of just trying to rehash the G1 "More Than Meets The Eye" tune (I'm so sick of non-G1 shows using it... just leave it alone already!).
re: what griffin said. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp
Also, CG animation is expensive. In cel animation everything is hand-drawn. When you want to introduce a new character it's really simple, just draw it in! Woo! With 3D CGI it's different - you actually have to construct the model on the computer from the bare "skeletal" frame then flesh in textures, tones etc. With the Transformers that appear on the show they actually do a scan of the toy in robot and beast mode and also photograph it from multiple angles. They use the 3D scans and photos as references to construct the animation models. It's very time consuming and expensive!
Now remember that Mainframe are working within a budget, as designated by Hasbro. Hasbro dictates which characters Mainframe are allowed to use and when. They did this during G1 too, but because cel animation was cheaper, Hasbro eventually allowed Sunbow to feature most of the toys in the cartoon. Because CGI is more cost-prohibitive Hasbro only allowed Mainframe to show a select number of characters in the show. Beast Wars II, the Beast Wars movie and Beast Wars Neo are cel animated, so Takara allowed the animation studio (can't remember which one it was off hand, but it did air on TV Tokyo) to feature every toy in the show. But the quality of the story isn't anywhere near as good as in the Canadian series...
As griffin eluded to, the advantage of having a smaller cast is that the show becomes less of a toy advert and writers can actually focus on the story instead of promoting a new toy every episode.
It's interesting to see some of the cost-cutting things that the animators do throughout various episodes to save money. For example, with characters that don't regularly recurr throughout the show, their models are relatively far less detailed and simpler - and often covered in shadows or just shown for a split second as was the case with G1 Starscream's ghost (and if you freeze-frame it it's a less detailed CG model compared to the BW TFs, but it also adds to making it look more spectral so it works in its favour :)). There's other cost-cutting things that they do later but I won't mention that until after you've seen them. :)
And yeah, what were some of the positive aspects? Did you like all the G1 and Transfandom references? What about the adult humour?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
Just as i expected.
If you have a beef please open a new thread as this one is for ME watching BW.
I think you are taking it the wrong way but never mind. I am not flaming you but since you seem rather jumpy about other views or perspectives I will no longer participate in this discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp
Its not a big deal for me if you like it or not and boards are about discussion/opinions but since this thread is only about your views that's fine. Good luck with watching the show and I hope you enjoy it.
You are not joking there. Back in the mid 90's there was not even a bipedial rigging system (giving a human like skeleton to a character model) and there was no character modelling cheating like there is these days, every object in the show had to be created "by hand" in the 3D software program. It's time consuming, and a single mistake can mean hours or days of modelling wasted.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
These days items can be scanned it from models (wire, plasticine, clay etc), and with all the handy tools in 3d Software programs nowadays it is much easier to actually create objects in the software.
If you have ever had to rig a humanoid character model without using a bipedal rigging system you really come to appreciate what these guys did back before the animated boom.
Sure Toy Story looked nicer and was released at a similar time, but the $$$ and crew numbers (not only in the animation, but in the creating of software to make all facets of animation easier) that Pixar used compared to the Mainframe team is staggering. Just watch the credits!
Good to hear ur thoughts, warpy. I too myself was a so-so after the first season. Some meh, some good. The second season is much better and the third is pretty decent too. Some of the episodes like Call of the Wild I remember as being terribly painful and it was only 22mins! And I watched things over a period of 2 months so i can imagine how u feel having to sit through some very slow stuff!
So do I get to borrow the DVDs next then?
I reckon you were very generous in that rating there man.
Also, aside from the character models, there's also all those backgrounds. All those trees, rocks, mountains, open fields, skies, clouds, water, fire, crystals, starship interiors & exteriors etc. are really time-consuming, difficult (especially the nature stuff) and very expensive to render in CGI. It's not like cel animation where artists can just paint backgrounds for other animators to layer other cels on top of... just like the characters themselves they have to be constructed.
In the DVD special features Bob Forward talks about the challenge of always forcing the audience to look inside a tiny box and never to look out of it, because there was literally nothing outside of the box!
Season 2 shows us a big improvement in the quality of CG rendering and animation as well as other visual effects & techniques (such as lighting apeture, glare, focus pulls etc. - stuff never previously seen in Transformers). And the vastly improved visual animation/effects in Season 2 isn't just my opinion - it won an Emmy Award for best special effects in an animated television series in 1998! :) :D
I should be getting season 2 soon.
Good, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
OMG
I was going to wait until the end of the season for a review but i just saw Code of Hero and it was awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So far season 2 is getting:
8.5/10
:D Glad to hear! It gets better ;)
I think you'll love Depthcharge in the 3rd season as well. You really are getting through tese fast!
Man i was even thinking of buying a Dinobot after that episode!
I finished season 2 and had to rush in season 3 and OMG G1 bits blew my mind!
I think we have another Beast Wars convert here! :D Welcome to the pack! :)
Can I recommend the 10th Ann. Jap version. The colours are as close as you'll see! And a fun toy too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp
OK i'm now in season 3.
Overall season 2 get's 8.5/10.
The only reason it doesn't get any higher is that i still don't like their forms. Struggling with the whole beast thing still.
So do you prefer the more mechanical looking Transmetal forms? They failed to capture the Japanese market who preferred more realistic looking organic beast modes (as they saw them as being better robots in disguise - a robotic ape isn't fooling anyone), and that's what they got in Beast Wars Neo.
From a toyline POV it was the beast concept that saved Transformers. Remember that Transformers was a near-dead toy franchise by 1995. G2 had dismally failed to restore the brand after the demise of G1. Hasbro's research indicated that animals were more popular with kids over vehicles, and decided to reformat the Transformers brand to capture that popularity. And it worked! We all know that Beast Wars totally saved Transformers from extinction and breathed new life into a dying franchise - it was the Transformers Renaissance! And remember that in 1997 Hasbro did test the market for vehicles again with Machine Wars - and that flopped miserably. In 1998 Takara also tested their own market with Beast Wars II, where the Predacons are vehicles (Maximals are beasts)... and while that wasn't a failure, their market indicated a stronger preference for beasts - hence reverting to beasts for the entire Beast Wars Neo line in 1999. It really wasn't until 2000-2001 that the market was ready for vehicles again (as seen with the popularity of Car Robot & Robots In Disguise).
From a story/canon POV, remember that a Transformer's alt mode is meant to allow them to adapt to their environment. Disguise is one reason amongst others. On 20th/21st Century Earth it's understandable that Transformers would be vehicles which they've scanned from that era. But in a pre-historic environment it would look odd (just look at the Predacons in BWII) and less plausible. With Beast Wars, these TFs are in four million B.C.E. - there are no cars or planes etc. for them to scan, only animals and fossilised DNA.
The same thing happened in G1 too - the Dinobots acquired dino modes because they were scanned from the Savage Land (where dinosaurs are a dominant life form). But even then, they're pretty poor robots in disguise. They look like robotic dinosaurs, not dinosaurs. Ditto the Predacons - they're not fooling anyone. And there's this conversation from the latest issue of All Hail Megatron about Ravage:
"Well I didn't expect a hell of a lot from a man who who thought a jaguar was a dog."
"That was a jaguar?"
lawl :D
The Beast Wars Transformers are from the future - a time where they are now able to better mimic forms that they scan and transform into them... animals, plants... you name it, they can transform into it. And it was technology that the G1 Transformers were working on, as witnessed with the Pretenders. Although unable to transform into organic forms, Pretender technology did allow Transformers to be encased with a partially-organic shell. Toywise Pretenders came about because Hasbro wanted a line of Transformers that could transform into humans, but Takara recommended keeping the Transformers as vehicles but putting them inside human-looking shells. Hasbro agreed, which I guess we should be grateful for because I'm not sure how organic looking alt modes would've worked in G1 1988. (-_-)
You might want to consider watching Beast Machines after you finish watching Beast Wars where organic and vehicular Transformers are at war against each other. :)
After being impressed with Beast Wars I moved onto Beast Machines. Started about 3 months ago. Still trying to finish episode 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
IMO talk about a series that could of killed off the franchise and Beast Machines would be it.
BTW glad to see your enjoying Beast Wars Warps. Although you might want to slow down your viewing. I watched seasons 2 and 3 too quickly the first time around and really didn't absorbe them properly.
It took me about 1 week each to watch Headmasters/Masterforce/Victory & I soaked up everything in them :) (Although Headmasters was a bit of a struggle at times... :D). It's strange how when we get engrossed in a series, it makes us wanna watch one episode after another (For example, I've already watched Seasons 1 & 2 of "The Office" in about 4 days & I can't wait to crack into Seasons 3 & 4 :)).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartrim
Viewing marathons are fun. :)
The thing with Beast Machines is that it is a very ambitious concept. Some may argue that it was over-ambitious.
Beast Wars strikes a good balance in terms of appealing to different audiences. There's plenty of stuff in BW for kids to enjoy but at the same time there's a lot in Beast Wars which is obviously intended for adults (a lot of stuff which just flies over the heads of children)... but at the same time it doesn't exclude kids. Beast Machines breaks that balance and is really just too adult.
I quite like Beast Machines - it's a very, very philosophical story, and at that level I really enjoyed it. Anyway, that's probably all I can say without stepping into spoiler territory. :p
I would recommend Beast Machines to Soundwarp though if he's interested in seeing a story of beast vs machine Transformers. It is also the actual sequel to Beast Wars too (essentially "seasons 4 and 5" for Beast Wars). :)
Beast Machines is excellent and horribly misunderstood by most of the fandom.
Beast Machines isn't for everyone. I suspect that Soundwarp probably _wont_ appreciate it. It's well written sci-fi etc, but it's a _poor_ kids cartoon, and not so great at selling toys.
That's not to say you shouldn't give it a go, Soundwarp - but I wanted to counterbalance the sci-fi-love of Beast Machines above.
:)I thought you'd like that one, i know it's my favourite episode;):).Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp
I liked Beast Machines but I'm not sure you would Soundwarp, I would think it would take 6-8 episodes to really make up your mind about that series;).
To be fair, I dont think the Beast Machines toys helped much in that regard either.Quote:
Originally Posted by dirge
While I personally believe that as a standalone series, it is a fairly poor continuation of it's preceding show.
Hell no. But even if the toys were fantastic, the fact is that the BM cartoon is more sci-fi and less kid's cartoon.Quote:
Originally Posted by i_amtrunks