Spoiler: There is that one scene in where they jump a TIE from one building to another :p
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Absolutely. :) One thing I love about Rogue One is that in the absence of any Jedi, the story focuses entirely on non-Jedi characters as its protagonists. One of the protagonists is Force-sensitive, but not a Jedi. The only proper Force User we see is Darth Vader. And this is accurate to the way that the Galaxy is set up in A New Hope, because as Tarkin says to Vader, "The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion."
Saw this yesterday with my 12yr old son
it was amazing. the feel was very starwars, it was definitely a WAR movie
I can confirm that this film stands up to a second viewing.
After the second time around though I feel even stronger that all the bits with Saw Gerrera and his insurgents were reasonably pointless. The part with the mind reading squid monster was probably the low point of the film.
I'd have much preferred that time to have gone to getting to know a bit more about some of the tertiary protagonists. The film would be stronger if that time was used to give some character to the commando squad and Blue Squadron.
The Saw parts were weak, I wonder if they trimmed some. The whole mind reading beast made no sense and I am not sure why it was left in when the rest was ignored.
I also was a fan of the ending even though some of the deaths were dull, but not everyone can go out in a blaze of glory. That being said Blazes death was very underwhelming, considering that there was a battalion of troops firing moments before who should've still been firing after Chirrut had been wiped out. Blaze shouldn't have made it to Chirrut let alone another 20 metres up the beach.
I do wonder if the set designers and effects designers were pulling their hair out at having to keep the 1970s look to the Death Star when everything else was made to look so much better! :p
While Saw's role could've been smaller, I wouldn't say that they're useless - unlike say Jar Jar Binks in Phantom Menace. Saw does play his part in the story, namely...
* Saving Jyn and raising her. This also showed who Saw used to be as opposed to who he became later on. Apparently Saw originated from the Clone Wars series (season 5?) but I have yet to watch it, so I guess the character may make more sense for those who are more familiar with the TV series. At least it's not just an "insert Expanded Universe character for the sheer heck of it," as we saw in the Prequels with Aayla Secura etc.
* It allowed Galen to send an Imperial defector (the pilot) to the Rebels. Galen had ties with Saw's Rebels but not with the actual Alliance themselves. The Alliance initially sought out Saw and the pilot in order to find Galen and assassinate him.
* Demonstrating how disorganised the Rebels were, which would have contributed to how it's been so difficult for the Rebels to overthrow the Empire. It's also more realistic in terms of how rebellions/terrorist organisations work. Just look at Al Qaeda, the Taliban, ISIS etc. - these organisations all hate each other and may even fight each other, but they certainly aren't united. And this isn't a new thing either. Even Monty Python's Life of Brian parodied this phenomenon with all the various rebellions keen on overthrowing the Romans to liberate Judea - the Judean People's Front, the People's Front of Judea, the Popular Front etc. And that brilliant scene where the two Centurions just stand and watch the People's Front of Judea and the Campaign for Free Galilee wipe each other out! It's stupid but it happens!
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...psd1lzl9hi.jpg
Ultimately, if you removed Saw from the story, the outcome would change. Jyn may have fallen into the hands of the Empire (or died on her own), the pilot would never have made contact contact with the Alliance and the Death Star plans would never have been stolen. This makes Saw an important piece, even if he is kinda weird. Boss Nass and Jabba the Hutt and even Yoda when we first meet him (he's a mischievous imp who steals Luke's food!) are all weirdos, but they all contributed to the plot. Jar Jar Binks on the other hand contributes nothing to almost the entire story of The Phantom Menace. The Jedi would have found their way to Theed without him - it may have taken a bit longer, but they would've gotten there. And Jar Jar's entire presence on Tatooine was completely useless. He didn't do ONE thing that was remotely important on Tatooine. Stepping in animal dung? Stealing food with his tongue? Sniffing animal farts? Getting a numb tongue from a pod racer? Being told not to eat with his tongue at the table? NONE of that is remotely relevant to the plot. They advance nothing in the story and are completely useless.
While I understand that Saw Gerrera may not be the most likable character around, I just wouldn't put him in the same "useless to the story" basket that Jar Jar is in. The brain slug scene to me was meant to show just how utterly paranoid and mentally unhinged this man had become, and why he was no good as an ally to the Rebellion any more. Even Saw realised that he had become redundant to the cause which is why he elected to stay and die on Jehda. Not even Jar Jar had the decency to drown himself at Ohta Gunga. :p
I actually liked that as it lent more realism to the movie. As CoRDS said, it's definitely a war movie. And yeah, people die in really undignified ways in warm, just look at Saving Private Ryan or any other movie which accurately portrays warfare. It sucks.
Rogue One takes Star Wars away from the swashbuckling fun adventure that we typically see and moves towards a more realistic war movie. Just as well these super-hot blaster rounds cauterise wounds on impact and we don't see blood gushing everywhere! One incredible scene was seeing that Rebel Commando, the one who tried to take the bunker, later die from his wound.
And I gotta say... K-2SO may be my favourite droid in the Star Wars universe. He's even funnier than See-Threepio (and not nearly as lame/camp - remember that before fans hated on Jar Jar they hated on Threepio) and possibly more versatile than Artoo Detoo. And he can shoot better than an entire squad of Stormtroopers! K-2SO's destruction was one of the most heart-wrenching moments in the Star Wars films IMO. Seeing his eyes flicker out, it felt as though K-2SO's sacrifice was every bit as noble as the other Rebels... it made you momentarily forget that droids are non-living in Star Wars. Losing a droid in the SW universe is like losing an iPhone with Siri. :p
So I just got to see Rogue One.
Whilst if I had to be critically honest I would have to admit it's not a "perfect" movie, however as a Star Wars fan (particularly of the original trilogy) I personally found it extremely enjoyable, particularly that final act.
I'm a fan of Gareth Edwards, I think he has a unique talent for the visual build up and climax of a scene (I.e. The hologram scene between Jin and her father during the first test of the Death Star is a prime example of this, which I think was executed superbly). I think he did a good job overall, even though the final product apparently is an altered form of his original vision (really hope they release the original directors cut of this at some point inthe future)
Anyway, for anyone who would be asking what is the purpose of this movie, I think the best way I could personally answer is:
- It just makes Star Wars better.
And to me that is something special In itself and worth the watch.
Now please excuse me as I need to put on A New Hope. May the Force be with you
For me, growing up with the Lucasarts games, especially with the X-wing series and Dark Forces, this was a match made in heaven.
I predicted everything as it was. I knew many lives were lost and I expected it.
I was kinda hoping for a twist that Vader was not entirely turned and actually turn over the plans to the rebellion lol.
I found it interesting in that the significant loss of Rebels during the Scarif battle, including all of Rogue One, Blue Squadron and a large part of the fleet (including the flagship) made it seem more of a pyrrhic victory than an all out victory. Certainly the opening crawl of A New Hope made it look better than the outcome of Rogue One:
The cost in obtaining the Death Star II schematics and the Emperor's plans to be present were clearly alluded to in RotJ when Mon Mothma states that "many Bothans died to bring us this information."Quote:
"It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire.
During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet.
Awww.... poor old Manny
So what's next rogue two on why second Death Star is still
Poorly designed?
What???????
You realise for #2 they flew into the reactor itself... no exhaust port...
and the plans were "ok"... to the emperors eyes... everyone who knew of Galens "flaws" is dead by the time the Medal Ceremony commences... so they just go... "Get the plans, fix that trench Vader says they aimed for... and make it bigger"
One of the things I love about this film is how it contextualises a lot of what comes after it the Original Trilogy films.
- The Battle of Yavin makes more sense from an in universe point of view now because the Rebel fleet was smashed about two days before hand, which is why there was no cap ship support. Red and Gold Squadron arguably get wiped out so quickly probably because they're so combat fatigued.
- The Tantive IV being over Tatooine at the start of ANH isn't a coincidence anymore - Leia was swinging past to pick up Obi Wan on her way to Alderaan.
- Obi Wan teaching Luke, leaving Tatooine and the Death Star sequence is more meaningful. The way Rogue One portrayed it was that the Rebellion leadership knew that Bail knew where Obi Wan was, but that he wouldn't go to him unless things got particularly dire. Taken with Rogue One in context, Obi Wan arguably knew that the fact they were reaching out to him meant that things had gotten really bad so he knew it was time to accelerate things.
- The Return of the Jedi stolen shuttle gambit being an entirely predicted and failed trick on the part of the Rebels has greater meaning now too seeing as that's exactly how Rogue One managed to sneak into Scariff.
As a fan of the Star Wars EU some of the biggest thrills in this film for me came from seeing things I'd read about committed to film.
Y-Wing bombing run on a Star Destroyer like in the X-Wing books? Check
Darth Vader absolutely wrecking everything in his path like in The Force Unleashed or Dark Lords of the Sith? Check
Starfighters completely smoking AT-ATs like in Isard's Revenge? Check (I am aware they're actually AT-ACTs in this film)
Suicide mission led by a tough as nails female to steal the Death Star plans, just like at the end of Rebel Dream? Check
Bizarre TIE variants that we'll likely never see again, just like most EU books? Check
The Death Star 2 was still under construction. The whole point of that entire gambit was to have the station look like it was still under construction, leak the location and that the Emperor was on board to draw out as many Rebels as possible, and then have the superlaser operational to wipe out the Rebel fleet.
Yeah iirc Death Star II once completed would've been impervious with no outward weaknesses. The path into the main core I assume would've been sealed up once construction was completed.
Hence why the Emperor allowed the Rebels to find out the location of Death Star II, knowing it was too tempting a target (or the only chance to take it down) whilst under construction.
Actually the pre-battle Yavin briefing in ANH makes it clear that capital ships would be decimated by the Death Star's main defenses consisting of turbolasers (can't be bothered digging up the quote). I'm sure the Rebels had other fleets in reserve but starfighters were clearly the way to go.Quote:
The Battle of Yavin makes more sense from an in universe point of view now because the Rebel fleet was smashed about two days before hand, which is why there was no cap ship support. Red and Gold Squadron arguably get wiped out so quickly probably because they're so combat fatigued.
Yah what? I think is still silly weakness imo. Especially big enough for a falcon to fly in. Of course my opinion.
Come to rethink it, the chances of you hitting a bullseye is a lot harder than the second Death Star. Luke had the force to get the shot, not many pilots can ace it. Second Death Star is basically get the shield down and is just a matter of getting pilots in. No Jedi skills required as shown.
I suppose there is the "It's defenses are designed around a direct large-scale assault" line.
In a way though I suppose it does give greater meaning to the ROTJ assault then, and explain that line better - the audience had no idea before ROTJ that the Death Star could do low power ship destroying shots.
Even the path into the Death Star II wasn't an easy thing for the Rebels to get to; only two of the fighters managed to make it to the reactor without being destroyed.
Because we didn't see capital ships in ANH, and saw them gathering at the end of ESB and attacking in ROTJ, I had assumed that the rebellion had a much smaller number of big ships at the time of ANH - and the events of that film helped more rebel and add their forces to the mix. So seeing the big armada jump in during this film surprised me. (Even though I've played games like Xwing where there was a big fleet for game purposes).
Well...actually Lando told the fighters to split up in order to try get some of the pursuing Tie Fighters off his back :)
I certainly agree that the Rebels would've gained more support following the Battle of Yavin. But we didn't see Rebel capital ships in ANH simply because of where it was set. The only planets/moons we saw were Tatooine and Yavin 4. And I reckon the Rebels would've ordered any capital ships out of Yavin 4's orbit once they knew the Death Star was approaching.
The shield is the main point here, that's what the Empire relied upon pre completion to protect Death Star II.
Yes it took a force wielder to make that glorious shot on the one weakness that was implanted by the designer of the original Death Star but isn't that now the point since R1? ;):p
As a modern canon SW guy and having dropped the previous EU "canon" TFA is a bit of a shemozzle and is realistically a reboot of Star Wars without being a reboot. R1 delivered on a lot of levels, it didn't try to create it's own Methos or pre-retcon stuff for ep 7 and beyond. It's a very solid story and imho is the best introduction to Star Wars for a non Star Wars fan.
If you look at the film on it's own; it's a good space action drama with characters who's plight moves you and as a stand alone it would open up a tonne of questions. That to me is why it would be perfect as "Star Wars 1" :eek::p
In terms of difficulty I think a new hope was rather more difficult especially when you have a freaking ace pilot darth Vader on your arse. What was it? 2m shaft?
Is a one of a shot.
Not saying rotj was easy, just saying it was a bit simpler.
Anyway the movie was fine, as some people comment some actors were not even necessary in it. In any case, is still better than episodes 1-3 anyday
Liked it.
The standard Deathtroopers were spot on with their aim against the rebels on the beach - sharpshooting them even when they were hidden behind crates. However the two senior-level Deathtroopers with pauldrons who were with Krennic were killed too easily by Cassian and Jyn when those two were awkwardly hanging by one arm each?
I would have liked to see the Deathtroopers use more creative methods of earning their namesake.
Perhaps a hand-to-hand or melee showdown scene with Chirrut & Baze. TFA has already shown us a glimpse of how good Stormtrooper melee battles can be. Extra movie-points for Donnie Yen smashing the Deathtroopers' helmets/armour to reveal a grotesque Frankenstein patchwork of cyborg implants that are keeping them alive. But, oh well, this is a Disney movie :p
This might tie in nicely with the question of why there aren't anymore Deathtroopers after Krennic's demise - if they were simply an elite commando squad, surely given time the Imperials could have trained more (by say the Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi).
I've yet to find a cool piece of Rogue One merchandise to buy. My collecting has restricted to Transformers Masterpiece only, but I allowed myself a Artfx+ Kylo Ren and FO Stormtrooper after Force Awakens. I'd like a cool, high quality piece for Rogue One but am yet to find something I like.
Watched it on Sunday. Really enjoyed it though I did like The Force Awakens more. Will watch it again over the Christmas break and will take my son this time since there were no gory deaths or other bad scenes.
Really liked the CGI on Tarkin, thought it was much more realistic than Leia. I think his age lent it to look more authentic.
The final scenes were great, really cool how they tied it into A New Hope.
Thoughts about Rogue One after a second viewing.
Trust is the recurring motif in this story. The entire movie is hinged around the issue of trust. This is a really important recurring theme throughout the story - the loss and building of trust, and how this ultimately links to hope, which is the motif of Episode IV.
I really don't mind Saw Gerrera, and upon a second viewing I think that he's even more important to the plot than some may give him credit for. As I mentioned before, his initial importance is in taking care of Jyn after her mother was killed and father abducted by the Imperials. If Saw had never found her, she'd probably perish in that hole. Jyn's separation and reunion with Saw are all really important parts of her character development. Her separation sowed seeds of despair in Jyn. She is betrayed by a close friend and loses trust in everything and everyone. She stops believing in the Rebel cause and relinquishes herself to keep "looking down" (as she puts it) in order to ignore the injustices caused by the Empire in the galaxy.
Saw himself has also stopped trusting people, becoming suspicious to the point of paranoia. He has a tentacle monster to interrogate people with (even when he doesn't really need to), cos I guess it's cheaper/easier than acquiring an IT-O interrogation droid (as favoured by the Empire). I do agree that the tentacle monster scene is rather pointless to the plot though, but I guess it's there to show just how distrustful Saw had become. And it's a quick scene (unlike say, the Pod Race), so I don't dislike it per se (but I don't really like it either).
Saw, as well as other characters, also serve to show how there's a lot of mistrust among the Rebels. This shows how bad a state the Rebels have become and why they've had so much trouble toppling the Empire before. Importantly, it also shows how desperate the Rebellion was for hope.
But the sacrifice that Saw and his Rebels planted the seeds of trust among Rebels in the Alliance. Seeds which would sprout during the Battle of Scarif, because there are moments in the battle where we hear Alliance Rebels cry out that they were avenging their comrades in Jehda. The Rebel Commandos who are deployed on the beach from the U-Wing all call out, "FOR JEHDA!" as they run into battle, and I'm sure I heard X-Wing pilots say something similar too. There was a feeling of 'we cannot save our friends from Jehda, but we can damn sure avenge them.' The Rebels became a unified force (no pun intended) by the end of Rogue One, and it was this unity which finally posed a threat to the Empire.
Saw also represents a turning point for Jyn, because it is during her reunion with Saw that Jyn turns from being apathetic towards the cause to being passionate. So without that reunion, Jyn would have never undergone that character development and her father's message would probably never have left Jehda. As I said before, I really useless character is one where the plot of a story would not change if you removed that character; like Jar Jar Binks in Episode I or Daniel Witwicky in the entire 3rd Season of Transformers G1. As annoying as Jar Jar is, his appearance in Episode II was actually crucial, because it was Senator Binks who helped Palpatine obtain greater power in the Senate and pass the legislation to activate the Clone Army - and yes - the great joke is that Jar Jar helped to kick start the Empire. :o Jar Jar's appearance in Episode III is useless, but he only appeared as a background character in one scene (i.e. the procession at Padmé's funeral) - but importantly he's not detracting from the story (because he has no dialogue :D), so it's okay.
Another cool thing (which I did notice in my first viewing) is that Galen and his family wore the same "Gi" style of clothing as Luke, Uncle Owen and Obi-Wan Kenobi in A New Hope. I find this important because when I was a kid, I saw the Gi as being the way that commoners would dress in the Star Wars galaxy. Luke and Owen were moisture farmers - as were Galen and Lyra. I assumed that Obi-Wan Kenobi dressed in a Gi because he was disguising himself as a peasant. The robe that he wore was also worn by Owen and Jawas -- I thought it was something to protect beings from heat and sand. So I liked how Rogue One went back to the Original Trilogy's original concept for the Gi... a commoner's dress, not Jedi uniform. One thing I was looking forward to seeing in the Prequels was how the Jedi originally dressed. Would it look something like Luke Skywalker's costume in Return of the Jedi? Nope... it was the same Gi and robe as worn by freakin' moisture farmers. Whaa-?! :confused: My fansplanation is that Jedi dress as commoners as a mark of humility. But this doesn't explain why Obi-Wan didn't ditch his robes after going into exile... surely he'd dress as a different kind of commoner or something else unassuming if the Empire are explicitly hunting Jedi. Heck, you'd think that a lot of commoners would stop wearing the Gi and change to something else just to avoid being mistaken for Jedi!
I counted the number of times "hope" was said in the film. Six times. ;)
From a RPG/miniature gaming POV I see it in two ways:
1/ Cassian and Jyn won initiative. They got to shoot first, forcing the Imperials to be on the defensive. This was because they saw the door opening and knew that the Imperials were on the other side whereas the Imperials had no idea where Cassian and Jyn were, so the Rebels had the element of surprise.
2/ Line of sight. Cassian and Jyn were under cover, the Deathtroopers were exposed.
Creative but arguably less realistic. The Riot Control Trooper in The Force Awakens went into a melee fight with FN-2187 really because he was all butthurt over seeing a fellow Stormtrooper back stab the First Order. He allowed emotions to cloud his judgement, because logic dictates that guns are better than swords. Duh. But the Riot Control Stormtrooper probably wanted the personal satisfaction of beating him up. From a story-telling POV the scene demonstrates that although Finn has some skill with a lightsabre, it's certainly not perfect. The Stormtrooper actually defeats Finn and would've killed him if Han Solo hadn't intervened. And of course, we see Finn get pwned later on by Kylo Ren. The Death Troopers have no personal feelings about the Rebels, and at an elite level you'd expect them to be able to emotionally detach themselves and focus on completing the mission at hand. The Death Troopers did their fair share of death-dealing... they just did it by shooting because that makes more sense than trying to kill someone via melee! (re: the scene in Indiana Jones where Indy just shoots the dude with the swords :p)
Besides, if you want to start picking on names, the Death Star and Starkiller Base never destroyed a star. Neither did Star Destroyers. The only Imperial weapon that did that was the now non-canonical Sun Crusher.
Bear in mind that Tarkin was always shown in darker settings than Leia. The Death Star has black interiors and the black backdrop of space, as well as the dark colours on Tarkin's uniform vs the white interior of the Tantive IV and Leia's white costume. I noticed that Tarkin never stood right next to Krennic, he always spoke with him from a distance. Could it be that they didn't want Krennic's white uniform to further illuminate Tarkin's face? They also had Leia continually looking out of the window into space rather than turning around to face Captain Antilles... could it be so that the light from the corridor would continue to come from behind her?
Agreed! This video shows how smoothly the ending of Rogue One blends into the beginning of A New Hope. With other Star Wars movies, there are periods of years or even decades between them, but here it feels like only hours or minutes have elapsed between Rogue One and A New Hope! :eek: The Devastator is literally in hot pursuit of the Tantive IV!
And when I watch the opening scene in A New Hope, there are now lines which hold greater meaning after seeing Rogue One including...
* "There'll be no escape for the Princess this time."
* "You passed directly through a restricted system. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies. I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you.
And Vader's anger is more justified now. When we see Captain Antilles and Leia answer Vader's questions, it becomes apparent that they're trolling the Sith Lord, and trolling him hard. Like when Bart Simpson is caught red-handed doing something wrong and he goes, "I didn't do it."
e.g.
Cpt. Antilles: "We intercepted no transmissions. This is a consular ship. We're on a diplomatic mission."
Leia: "I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan..."
Diplomatic mission? Really?! Vader freakin' saw you at the Battle of Scarif -- he nearly boarded the Tantive IV before it broke off from the Rebel flagship. Vader knows that the plans were aboard that Corvette and the Rebels knew it too! They might as well have told Vader that they were just waiting for a mate. :p It's that weak an excuse! Cos before Rogue One, Vader's killing of Captain Antilles seemed to make no sense because dead men can't talk. Vader's mission is to get those plans, surely torturing and interrogating prisoners makes more sense than killing them. But now it makes sense! Vader's asked Antilles a direct question, and Antilles' smart alec reply is basically the verbal equivalent of giving Vader the finger and telling him to go fornicate himself. Little wonder why Vader killed him. He couldn't kill Leia because she's a Senator -- even holding her was tactically dangerous, as pointed out to Vader by an Imperial officer (re: generating sympathy for the Rebellion in the Senate). Vader may well have killed Leia too if not for the diplomatic/political repercussions.
I went to a midnight screening in Melb then again on the weekend with my dad, I loved it :D Like someone already mentioned, it had a more visceral feel to some of the action scenes which was really intense for star wars and i think worked really well. Initially i wasn't sure how to take Tarkin, it was probably distracting a bit in the first showing but then was better the 2nd time.
I really enjoyed it and will definitely be keen to watch it again with some mates.
I am very curious if they will release deleted scenes and talk about the changes, because there were quite a few differences to some of the previews.
I missed seeing Chopper but did catch the Ghost a few times from Rebels. Someone thought they saw a lasat like Zeb but I missed that as well.
I loved the detail in the ship explosions and collisions too, that was really cool.
Overall really enjoyed it and a worthy addition to the franchise!
Come to think of it...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...pslnhqbich.jpg
Darth Vader vs Rebels in Rogue One - in 16-bit!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYMDphGTcg