Theories: who did Unicron turn into who?

I think you'll find it's quite resolvable. It's only those who want symmetry pushing for Skywarp.
You show that scene to someone who has never seen the movie and ask them who became who? 100% will say Bombshell, I guaranteee it.

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Originally Posted by Sinnertwin

I think you'll find it's quite resolvable. It's only those who want symmetry pushing for Skywarp.
You show that scene to someone who has never seen the movie and ask them who became who? 100% will say Bombshell, I guaranteee it.

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Right, just as we clearly see two red cassettes in an earlier scene of the movie. :)

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Originally Posted by Tha_Phantom

Right, just as we clearly see two red cassettes in an earlier scene of the movie. :)

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Shh! That's supposed to be a rare appearance of Enemy! :p

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Originally Posted by Tha_Phantom

Right, just as we clearly see two red cassettes in an earlier scene of the movie. :)

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That's just a colouring error, much like Starscream's cockpit when he's kicking Megatron, doesn't mean anything. Points for trying though :)

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Originally Posted by Sinnertwin

That's just a colouring error, much like Starscream's cockpit when he's kicking Megatron, doesn't mean anything. Points for trying though :)

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The movie is riddled with errors, including dead characters showing up later on. As I said earlier, there isn't much credibility there. :rolleyes:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092106/goofs

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Originally Posted by Tha_Phantom

The movie is riddled with errors, including dead characters showing up later on. As I said earlier, there isn't much credibility there. :rolleyes:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092106/goofs

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Except that it's not an animation error. The animators animated what was brought before them.
The one time they do their job correctly, the fandom explodes :p

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Okay, I'll add a serious comment to this discussion...

IT DOESN'T MATTER

As this is an unresolvable topic attempting to debate just becomes as useful as a dog chasing its own tail. If you want to believe that it was Skywarp, then fine. If you want to believe that it was Bombshell or Salvo, also fine. Whatever floats your boat.

Personal Opinion That's Not Official Canon:
I personally believe that Skywarp became Cyclonus and that Salvo became the other Cyclonus. In my head canon all the Insecticons who were jettisoned were clones and the original Insecticons survived (which is why we see them later on).

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It’s only unresolvable if you deny Bombshell became Cyclonus. It’s right there. I showed my wife the storyboards and the scene from the movie. An outsider that has no clue about this and guess what? She said Bombshell is Cyclonus. Clear as day.

She then threw off her clothes and demanded I take her to bed immediately because nothing makes her hotter than seeing her mid-thirties husband engaged in an internet nerd argument!

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Originally Posted by Trent

It’s only unresolvable if you deny Bombshell became Cyclonus. It’s right there. I showed my wife the storyboards and the scene from the movie. An outsider that has no clue about this and guess what? She said Bombshell is Cyclonus. Clear as day.

She then threw off her clothes and demanded I take her to bed immediately because nothing makes her hotter than seeing her mid-thirties husband engaged in an internet nerd argument!

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Bravo! That's Ozformer of the year material right there. :D

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Originally Posted by Trent

It’s only unresolvable if you deny Bombshell became Cyclonus. It’s right there. I showed my wife the storyboards and the scene from the movie. An outsider that has no clue about this and guess what? She said Bombshell is Cyclonus. Clear as day.

She then threw off her clothes and demanded I take her to bed immediately because nothing makes her hotter than seeing her mid-thirties husband engaged in an internet nerd argument!

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Don’t bode well for your marriage when she finds out it was really Skywarp.

I hope she never realises the truth - it would be good if at least one of you wasn’t thinking of me when in the throes of passion with their spouse.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

<throws a monkey wrench>
But was it Bombshell or Salvo? ;)

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If it wasn’t for the colour scheme I’d be open to this theory as it least it would mean it was an Insecticlone rather than one of the originals, which I still maintain survived since they were in the movie later on, were in season 3 and appeared in post movie books.

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Originally Posted by BigTransformerTrev

Don’t bode well for your marriage when she finds out it was really Skywarp.

I hope she never realises the truth - it would be good if at least one of you wasn’t thinking of me when in the throes of passion with their spouse.

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I shall attempt the Trent maneuver tonight while thinking of you xoxo

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Originally Posted by Sinnertwin

I shall attempt the Trent maneuver tonight while thinking of you xoxo

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Don’t get her hopes up

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Originally Posted by Trent

Don’t get her hopes up

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If its worked for you...

https://i.imgur.com/AuUPN2w.jpg

I'll post this link again in case anyone missed it. The TFwiki page on G1 Cyclonus in the G1 cartoon continuity dedicates six paragraphs into the problems with Cyclonus' former identity. You fine folks know how to follow a hotlink so I'm not going to post my own spiel which would be nothing more than just rewording what's already stated on that wiki page (you can read it for yourselves). :)

The "because Bombshell's in front" isn't a great argument because directions in space is completely relative.

And how do you know it was Bombshell and not Salvo or any of his other clones? :confused:
Anyway, if you want to believe it's Bombshell or Salvo (etc.) then go right ahead.

More Personal Opinion That's Not Canonical Fact:
Another reason why I prefer the Skywarp explanation is because Cyclonus' personality is more like Skywarp's and very different from Bombshell's. In the G1 cartoon Skywarp was portrayed as being a loyal soldier to Megatron. Starscream was the traitor and Thundercracker was somewhat indifferent, but Skywarp was the loyalist. We can see this in The Ultimate Doom where Skywarp and Starscream fight in the lift over the "brilliance" of Megatron's plan. G1 cartoon Cyclonus is also fiercely loyal to Galvatron. This is quite different from Bombshell who, like the other Insecticons in the cartoon, is a pure opportunist. He's only ever loyal to Megatron so long as it suits his purposes. So to me Cyclonus being the evolution of Skywarp makes sense to me as much as Galvatron is the evolution of Megatron. They share personality traits. Again, I recognise that this is purely my own opinion and not a decisive canonical fact.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

I'll post this link again in case anyone missed it. The TFwiki page on G1 Cyclonus in the G1 cartoon continuity dedicates six paragraphs into the problems with Cyclonus' former identity. You fine folks know how to follow a hotlink so I'm not going to post my own spiel which would be nothing more than just rewording what's already stated on that wiki page (you can read it for yourselves). :)

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Originally Posted by Sinnertwin

Here we are, plain as day, Bombshell being reformatted into Cyclonus while dead seekers float in the background

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Here's the link to the storyboard from which the animators worked off.

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The "because Bombshell's in front" isn't a great argument because directions in space is completely relative.

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But not from a movie making/audience point of view. You're not going to introduce a new character by having them standing in the background. Our eyes are drawn to the objects at the front of the screen making them a point of attention.

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And how do you know it was Bombshell and not Salvo or any of his other clones? :confused:

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https://i.imgur.com/u7If5KB.jpg

That's still a matter of authorial intent vs final outcome. Even then this becomes fuzzy as it contradicts earlier versions of the script. And even in the final product we know that Bombshell appears in later scenes in the movie and he appears in Season 3. Skywarp does not. But then again, the clone thing...

I'm NOT saying that it's definitively one or the other. This is truly a pointless discussion. Just take your pick and go with it. If you want to believe that Cyclonus used to be Bombshell then more power to you. If you want to believe that he used to be Salvo, then go for it. And if you want to believe that he used to be Skywarp, then go nuts with that too.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

That's still a matter of authorial intent vs final outcome. Even then this becomes fuzzy as it contradicts earlier versions of the script.

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Well unlike many of you I've decided to dig deep on the net, make a few phone calls etc. And it turns out we are all wrong

The robot that gets turned into Cyclonus is in fact Hound.

What the original script called for:
When Prime, Sunstreaker and Hound land at Autobot city, Prime orders Sunstreaker to reinforce the left flank and orders Hound to use his holographic abilities to spy out what the Decepticons next move in battle would be. Instead of camoflauging himself as a rock or he camoflauges himself as a Decepticon.
(Here is where the confusion lays as it lists in the notes as 'either Insecticon or Jet' as they were the character models there could be multiples of at any one time).

Hound gets caught up in the evacuation in Astrotrain and ends up stuck there in his disguise. He ends up getting thrown out the airlock, still holographically camouflaged as either as a Seeker (Jet) or Insecticon.

When the formatting takes place, as the change animation happens you briefly see Hound's face appear between his holographic disguise disappearing and his new form emerging.

Unfortunately this storyline was cut from the final draft of the script, but you see the hangovers from it, such as there being two Cyclonus' (as they hadn't decided yet whether Hound would be an Insecticon or a Seeker when disguised) and why Cyclonus was written as the most honourable Decepticon in season 3, due to the fact he had been reformatted from an Autobot rather than a Decepticon.

There ya go, answered :)

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

This is truly a pointless discussion.

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Well many of us have found it quite invigorating and enlightening :cool:

Seriously give it up. It is Bombshell. So much wasted time on a pointless discussion. Storyboard says Bombshell. We see Bombshell turn into Cyclonus. The seeker at the back (clearly Skywarp) was a useless seeker anyway so he can go on his way to oblivion. Bombshell = Cyclonus. Debate over.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

That's still a matter of authorial intent vs final outcome. Even then this becomes fuzzy as it contradicts earlier versions of the script. And even in the final product we know that Bombshell appears in later scenes in the movie and he appears in Season 3. Skywarp does not. But then again, the clone thing...

I'm NOT saying that it's definitively one or the other. This is truly a pointless discussion. Just take your pick and go with it. If you want to believe that Cyclonus used to be Bombshell then more power to you. If you want to believe that he used to be Salvo, then go for it. And if you want to believe that he used to be Skywarp, then go nuts with that too.

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Id say the authorial intent is pretty clear:

https://i.imgur.com/ZXpkGZV.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/R3YgM8w.jpg

Skywarp headcanon and theories in this case hold as much water as flat earthers and Area 51 nut jobs.

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Originally Posted by Trent

Id say the authorial intent is pretty clear:

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*sigh* That was never in dispute.

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Originally Posted by Trent

It’s only unresolvable if you deny Bombshell became Cyclonus. It’s right there. I showed my wife the storyboards and the scene from the movie. An outsider that has no clue about this and guess what? She said Bombshell is Cyclonus. Clear as day.

She then threw off her clothes and demanded I take her to bed immediately because nothing makes her hotter than seeing her mid-thirties husband engaged in an internet nerd argument!

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LOL, I can't tell if you're delirious or just plain lying. Takes some of the credence out of pretty much every other statement you've ever made... just quietly.


I've never seen so many self righteous, virtue signalling, headless muppets running around in circles before.
Points to Trevor for an interesting head cannon. I don't see what the point of bringing up things like earlier versions of a script or toy catalogues or even future episodes of the TV show has to do with the content of the film?

Star Wars movie spoiler
Is there a discussion as to the identity of the old smuggler guy that gets skewered by Kylo Ren in the Star Wars movies? no, I didn't think so, is there a version of the script where it's someone else? maybe but it's irrelevant because it's Han Solo that cops it in the film.

Back to Transformers.
Is it bombshell? it looks like bombshell, is sound like bombshell and it tastes like bombshell, so it's probably bombshell, it even quacks like bombshell. And yes it's Cyclonus, not his Armada. Sure there's no up, down left or right in space, but there is still perspective and relative orientation. From the perspective of the Camera/Audience, it's Bombshell who is the primary focus of the shot, being introduced as Cyclonus.

So, what about all the future appearances of 'bombshell' who's to say they weren't originally a clone and bombshell transferred his consciousness before being ousted from Astrotrain, or maybe the clone was a 'premium' clone and just took on his position as the new bombshell once the original was out of the picture.

This nonsense about the characters fitting better the other way around. Your assuming that Unicron allowed some semblance of the original characters personality to remain. Perhaps that was only done for Megatron/Galvatron.
What of the suffering irony for Skywarp to now be forced to be subservient to a lowly Insecticon for the remainder of his existence, perhaps Unicron gained some sick enjoyment out of this suffering he caused.
Much the same that it was always a brutal irony that Megatron relied on his least trusted and liked Lieutenant to use him in his alt mode.
There is also no proving that Cyclonus' Armarda wasn't many characters; all clones of him, just that they were never shown on the screen again. Much the same if there was a jettison of dead weight from Astrotrain, there would have been many more near dead decepticons relieved of duty than those actually shown. Not everything in a movie has to happen on screen, to expect so is to expect to be pandered to at every turn (here's a participation ribbon), it can often be loosely implied with primary characters being shown to represent the many offscreen characters.

Bombshell became Cyclonus and Skywarp amongst others became his Armarda of nameless troops, never to be given a speaking role again.

good chat.

Question:

How many people are fighting for Skywarp or Bombshell because they had that toy as a kid?

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Originally Posted by KELPIE

Question:

How many people are fighting for Skywarp or Bombshell because they had that toy as a kid?

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Ironically Bombshell was like my third ever TF as a kid and I didn’t get Skywarp until I became an adult collector.

Anyway, I thought we sorted this - it was Hound, definitely :cool:

I only ever had a Cyclonus

(some people just need to be careful about jumping in too seriously, in this VERY tongue-in-cheek discussion topic, which has a lot of ribbing among people who already know each other, to know that their comments about each other are in jest)



Next week's unresolvable topic.... Is Rumble red or blue? :p

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Originally Posted by UltraMarginal

I only ever had a Cyclonus

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Same.

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Originally Posted by KELPIE

Question:

How many people are fighting for Skywarp or Bombshell because they had that toy as a kid?

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Originally Posted by BigTransformerTrev

Ironically Bombshell was like my third ever TF as a kid and I didn’t get Skywarp until I became an adult collector.

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Originally Posted by UltraMarginal

I only ever had a Cyclonus

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Originally Posted by Trent

Same.

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And just as Bombshell my second ever Decepticon, Cyclonus was my third.

By that pattern, Dirge should be Cyclonus since he was my first. Luckily we all know now it was a certain green jeep ;)

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Originally Posted by griffin

(some people just need to be careful about jumping in too seriously, in this VERY tongue-in-cheek discussion topic, which has a lot of ribbing among people who already know each other, to know that their comments about each other are in jest)

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Oh I was quite serious when I inferred Trent thinks of me when betwixt the sheets. Not that I blame him - shows excellent taste on his part - I do too. Hence why I've always insisted on a mirror on the ceiling, so I could watch myself rather than whoever I was with - always such an intoxicating and alluring sight

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Originally Posted by Raider

Seriously give it up. It is Bombshell. So much wasted time on a pointless discussion. Storyboard says Bombshell. We see Bombshell turn into Cyclonus. The seeker at the back (clearly Skywarp) was a useless seeker anyway so he can go on his way to oblivion. Bombshell = Cyclonus. Debate over.

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I love you.

And Rumble is red.

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Originally Posted by UltraMarginal

LOL, I can't tell if you're delirious or just plain lying. Takes some of the credence out of pretty much every other statement you've ever made... just quietly.


I've never seen so many self righteous, virtue signalling, headless muppets running around in circles before.
Points to Trevor for an interesting head cannon. I don't see what the point of bringing up things like earlier versions of a script or toy catalogues or even future episodes of the TV show has to do with the content of the film?

Star Wars movie spoiler
Is there a discussion as to the identity of the old smuggler guy that gets skewered by Kylo Ren in the Star Wars movies? no, I didn't think so, is there a version of the script where it's someone else? maybe but it's irrelevant because it's Han Solo that cops it in the film.

Back to Transformers.
Is it bombshell? it looks like bombshell, is sound like bombshell and it tastes like bombshell, so it's probably bombshell, it even quacks like bombshell. And yes it's Cyclonus, not his Armada. Sure there's no up, down left or right in space, but there is still perspective and relative orientation. From the perspective of the Camera/Audience, it's Bombshell who is the primary focus of the shot, being introduced as Cyclonus.

So, what about all the future appearances of 'bombshell' who's to say they weren't originally a clone and bombshell transferred his consciousness before being ousted from Astrotrain, or maybe the clone was a 'premium' clone and just took on his position as the new bombshell once the original was out of the picture.

This nonsense about the characters fitting better the other way around. Your assuming that Unicron allowed some semblance of the original characters personality to remain. Perhaps that was only done for Megatron/Galvatron.
What of the suffering irony for Skywarp to now be forced to be subservient to a lowly Insecticon for the remainder of his existence, perhaps Unicron gained some sick enjoyment out of this suffering he caused.
Much the same that it was always a brutal irony that Megatron relied on his least trusted and liked Lieutenant to use him in his alt mode.
There is also no proving that Cyclonus' Armarda wasn't many characters; all clones of him, just that they were never shown on the screen again. Much the same if there was a jettison of dead weight from Astrotrain, there would have been many more near dead decepticons relieved of duty than those actually shown. Not everything in a movie has to happen on screen, to expect so is to expect to be pandered to at every turn (here's a participation ribbon), it can often be loosely implied with primary characters being shown to represent the many offscreen characters.

Bombshell became Cyclonus and Skywarp amongst others became his Armarda of nameless troops, never to be given a speaking role again.

good chat.

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Well done! :D

All I can say is you came into this thread like a...

https://youtu.be/My2FRPA3Gf8

https://i.ibb.co/cwcV8kw/temp.jpg

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Originally Posted by KELPIE

Question:

How many people are fighting for Skywarp or Bombshell because they had that toy as a kid?

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I've had both since I was a kid, so... <shrugs>
https://i.ibb.co/1nVMqxV/temp.jpg

So I did a little more digging and as it turns out it is likley the case that we were all correct! Both Bombshell and Skywarp become Cyclonus as they merged into the one bot. Kinda surprised by that outcome but I guess it does work.

I'm going to need a reference for that statement...

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Originally Posted by UltraMarginal

I'm going to need a reference for that statement...

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The man who wrote the movie itself, Ron Friedman. We are email buddies so I just asked his view and among other things that were said, "They merge to become one as Cyclonus because neither can dominate the other." Now, is that a full proof explanation? Of course not. Is there some holes in it? Sure. But this is a comment from the guy who wrote the thing. If he says they merged into one, then I am happy to live with that.

Oh please, the guy's 87 years old.
He was probably over the moon someone knew who he was and took time out of their day to talk to him.
No doubt you probably also led with "Remember when you wrote the script and Bombshell and Skywarp merged into one? ...

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Originally Posted by Sinnertwin

Oh please, the guy's 87 years old.
He was probably over the moon someone knew who he was and took time out of their day to talk to him.
No doubt you probably also led with "Remember when you wrote the script and Bombshell and Skywarp merged into one? ...

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Actually I led with, "you know how Skywarp turned into Cyclonus and Bombshell into a Sweep." Shame he didn't agree :p

And for an 87 year old bloke he has a far sharper wit than you my dull-witted acquaintance. :p

Looks like Hasbro is taking a side in this argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGNJEyYz17k

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Originally Posted by DELTAprime

Looks like Hasbro is taking a side in this argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGNJEyYz17k

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That was amusing, but they need a part two [spoiler]as the sweeps say they're all Insecticons, yet they also claim Bombshell is Cyclonus[/COLOR][/spoiler] That math don't add up!

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Originally Posted by DELTAprime

Looks like Hasbro is taking a side in this argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGNJEyYz17k

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That was great!

I'm the only person in the world who thinks that Reflector became the Sweeps and that the Insecticons survived to eat refuse and wildlife on Chaar. :)

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Originally Posted by DELTAprime

Looks like Hasbro is taking a side in this argument.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGNJEyYz17k

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Not only was this an 'official' Hasbro short, but it was co-written by Flint Dille, the 1986 movie's story consultant.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy

That was amusing, but they need a part two [spoiler]as the sweeps say they're all Insecticons, yet they also claim Bombshell is Cyclonus[/COLOR][/spoiler] That math don't add up!

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Bombshell is actually the Sweep asking the questions, trying to sow chaos!