Alright Gok, lets dance.
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Originally Posted by
GoktimusPrime
I like how you gave new names for pre-Earth Tarantulas and Rhinox. :)
Taranachus is Tarantulas but Rhinox is still Rhinox. Csirac is a completely new character.
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The Decepticons were supposedly leaderless at the end of the war, and the Predacons took the initiative to lead the Decepticons into signing the Pax Cybertronia. However, their policy was one of unconditional surrender to the Autobots, with the secret plan of rebuilding their forces to one day usurp the Autobots in the future - this would become the Predacon cause by the time of the Beast Wars.
I'm creating my own Universe and ending to the Great War, as nothing I've read is conclusive. I wish to borrow some things from canon and non-canon [like Furman's Alignment], disregard some others [like BM {which dissappears if you follow this timeline} BW Neo and BW II because I just plain don't like them and have no place for them in my Universe], and just plain invent some stuff, like Csirac.
With that in mind, I take Megatron as dead at the hands of the Liege Maximo at the end of Alignment and Soundwave in charge of the Decepticons who are basically a spent force.
This leaves me free to slot in a new origin for the Predacon Faction, as a means for Decepticons still keen to fight.
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The "Maximals" was the name of the 'Maximal Upgrade' - the next step from Micromaster technology. In G1 Anglophone continuity, Micromasters were created as a means of conserving fuel by downsizing the Transformers. In Beast Wars it is stated that the BW TFs are smaller and more fuel-efficient than the larger G1 Transformers. This is why in "The Agenda Part 3" when Megatron first enters the Ark and views the G1 Transformers lying in stasis, he calls them "Archaic Energon guzzlers!"
Could the Maximals not simply be a small fighting force, like the Wreckers? But their popularity grew? Perhaps they were the first to have the mini-bot/protoform upgrade/downsizing, and became a very efficient fighting force?
As with the Predacon faction, I feel free reign to construct a new origin for the Maximals, and a more logical reasoning to later abandon both the titles of Autobot and Decepticon.
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Rodimus became downsized by the end of the Great War, which makes sense because there was a Micromaster Hot Rod toy in G1 (came with Star Convoy) - and in during the time of Beast Machines when Rodimus is leading the new Wreckers, he is the same size as Maximals and Predacons; thus presumably Micromaster sized.
BM doesn't exist anymore :p We're skipping it and going straight to TransTech. The point of the Beast Wars was not to bring the organic back to Cybertron, but TransMetal Technology!
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While it's never been explicitly stated that Micromaster technology led to the Maximal Upgrade, when you think about it, it makes sense. The G1 Transformers were already heading toward downsizing themselves to conserve fuel anyway... seems logical that they would legislate it as a standard requirement in post-war Cybertron.
I have no problem with this. What was first used as a weapon or advantage, was later used planet-wide.
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Interesting.
Be aware by the time of the Beast Wars, Unicron has been physically destroyed -- presumably since G1. He only exists in spiritual form known as Dark Essence or Angolmois Energy. When Unicron destroys the Maximal Armada, he is still in spirit form, albeit fully powered by his Angolmois Energy (and using BW Galvatron as a vessel) -- then he possesses Vector Sigma and begins reconstructing Cybertron as his new body. All this would be needless if he already had a reconstructed body as you've suggested. So I don't know if you really want to keep the story of him having a new body, otherwise you'll need to find a way to have that body destroyed. But one would assume that if the BW TFs had recently destroyed Unicron, they would be more aware about the nature of Dark Essence and Angolmois Energy than they already were...
Also, other agents of Unicron include the Blentrons, Shokoract, Antagony and Cataclysm.
Also, Tripredacus was never made from Cybertronians. Neither was Tarantulas. That's why Tarantulas was willing to destroy the Ark and kill all the Autobots and Decepticons inside them, wiping out the existence of Maximals and Predacons. When asked about this supposedly suicidal plan, Tarantulas boasted that it would only effect Transformers "descendant from Autobots and Decepticons" and that he and the Tripredacus Council have "different origins" (and thus were immune to being uncreated at the destruction of the Ark).
*Takes a huge breath*
I'm discounting BW Neo and BW II, I may utilise character names, but the stories I've discounted completely. I've never been a fan so feel no requirement to use them.
So if Unicron appeared in BW Neo or II, I don't care. And if he was destroyed? Good for him. But in this little story, he's out in the depths of space, blackmailing a creature (could be another Primacron) into building him a new body.
Don't misquote Tarantulas. He says his origins are different to the Transformers on the Ark, and destroying it will have no affect on him. He's still a Transformer though.
He, and the Tripredacus Council, were part of the Cybertronian Empire, who left Cybertron well before the Great War and the time of Prime and megatron, and minions of the Liege Maximo. They were reformatted by Unicron thus becoming Unicron Spawn. I've got all the bases covered here. I'll draw you a diagram if you wish :p But the important bit is: They are still Transformers. they're not some alien race.
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Early Transwarp technology was already underway during G1. This is stated in G1 Megatron's message encrypted in the Sounds of Earth golden disk from Voyager II. Transwarp technology was still in its infancy during G1 Megatron's time, hence he left a message for future descendants to use it to change destiny once it was perfected to ensure Decepticon victory.
Not a worry there. Csirac was nearing completion of the Technology, especially seeing as though they were at a testing stage.
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Nothing wrong with having Maximal scientists working on and maybe perfecting Transwarp drive tech, but it would definitely not be in its early stages and more likely approaching its final stages. Maybe it could be like the Star Wars prequels were individual one-man starfighters needed to hook up to a hyperdrive ring to jump because the technology wasn't compact enough to fit inside the fighter -- so maybe they weren't able to make the technology small enough to put inside a ship so they need to hook up to an external Transwarp Drive ... thing. :p Or maybe it could be like in Transformers Animated where they have to have constructed Space Bridges and they can only transwarp between established Bridge points (whereas in Beast Wars they can transwarp into anywhere - like when Depth Charge warped out into a Quantum Wave ;)).
Maybe. I'll think some more on it.
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This would go against the "unconditional surrender" of the Predacons -- but I do like the idea of them usurping Razorclaw. ;) Maybe the Tripredacus Generals came in as Decepticons much earlier on - say after the events of Transformers Zone when Dai Atlas killed Predaking (and Razorclaw most likely didn't survive) -- the other Predacons would have been leaderless, and then the three Tripredacus dudes came into to bolster their depleted ranks; replacing their one fallen Predacon with 3 new ones. The Predacons were probably so relieved that they didn't think to question where they came from -- and then later during the Autobot-Decepticon war they could prove themselves worthy, gaining the trust of the Decepticons, and then orchestrate the assassination of Megatron, leaving the Decepticons leaderless and in a vulnerable position to be conquered by the Autobots.
The Trip Brotherhood has to enter when they did. They've always has a mystery about them, even to other Predacons, thus the mistrust, so if their origins (and intentions) are blurry, then all the better for their mystery.
Isn't Razorclaw shown still to be alive in one of the recent BotCon comics? He was an exclusive toy not long ago. So I feel free to still have him alive.
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After all, it seems that the Tripredacus Generals' objective isn't really to help the Decepticons or Predacons win, but to keep the Transformers disunified and unable to unite against Unicron's impending attack. Perhaps Ravage could be one Decepticon who trusts them utterly, and you could have the Tripredacus Generals frame an Autobot (or maybe another Decepticon!) as Megatron's assassin. This would ensure Ravage's loyalty to them as the Tripredacus Agent with no knowledge of the true nature of his new masters.
Megatron was killed by the Liege Maximo. Ravage doesn't trust the Council, he serves whoever pays the cheques. His last words were "Decepticons Forever", not Predacons... He ultimately serves himself, thus why he turned on the Tripredacus Council and started following BW Megatron's orders.
Want to know what the Tripredacus Council actually want?
They were tortured and reformatted by Unicron, right? They know he'll eventually make another play for Cybertron and to kill his brother Primus. They intend to blackmail him with TransWarp technology, because they know exactly where he was when he was weak and could go back and destroy him then. They wish to be almost Gods themselves. Or as close to, having Unicron act out their will because they have leverage on him.
They ultimately fail though.
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There's no need for Tripredacus to kidnap Tarantulas because he's also a spawn of Unicron not originally of Cybertronian creation. And him having a partner would be against his character who's just twisted and evil to the core. Perhaps you could transplant that story idea to Depth Charge - because we know that Depth Charge was once an ideal heroic Maximal (as Optimus Primal described him) who became all bitter and full off rage of Protoform X killed (ate!!) everyone he cared for. How much more awful would it be if he'd consumed Depth Charge's beloved...
I think you misunderstood. Taranachus is working for the Council and simply is requesting they send someone (Magmatron) to kidnap Csirac so he can probe his brain for answers.
Csirac isn't his partner. Taranachus is a Pred working on their own version of TransWarp technology but is ultimately failing until he gets his hands on Csirac.
I'e got other plans for Depth Charge. A spotlight issue.
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I do like the idea of the Autobots using Transwarp drive to beat the Decepticons into submission though. The Pax Cybertronia is named after the Pax Brittania, which was the policy used by the British Empire to force other countries into submission in what was called "Gunboat Diplomacy." Rather nasty. ;) I'd like to see the so-called "heroic" Autobots using questionable means to assure victory.
I like the idea too. I thought it was more like Hiroshima and Nagasaki myself, but sure.
Me too. I like the character of Magmatron and what he was about in the BW comics Gathering and Ascention. He deserves some focus.
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Silverbolt, Prowl and Ironhide were all rebuilt during G1 during the Earthforce Saga (which was Hasbro's push to promote the Classics Reissues in 1990-91). They survived the battle of Unicron and were even seen in G2.
Perhaps you could have Fireflight and Air Raid killed, and Slingshot and Sky Shadow reformatted as Decepticons in an early version of the Predacon Shell Program (this would explain why there are Predacons with their names in Beast Wars -- "Sling" (the dimetrodon) is the Japanese name for G1 Slingshot). So having lost his fellow Aerialbots, Prowl and Ironhide are reconstructed as gestalt members to combine with him to form Magnaboss.
As far as I'm aware, Ironhide and Prowl were killed by Megatron on an Autobot shuttle in the '86 Movie. "Such heroic nonsence". If they were brought back, well, they might just have been killed again.
The shell program doesn't work at this stage but it might be perfected later to be used for spying and subterfuge.
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I reckon Springer and the Wreckers would be instrumental in this, as mentioned in the BotCon comics.
I'm sure they'd be on the frontline for sure. Perhaps they discoer the Predacon installation and attack it before waiting for re-enforcements.
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This is good - but I think it should be, the Tripredacus Council pretends to care, and takes a lot of ineffectual action which doesn't really help the Predacons. The Tripredacus Council has always maintained a guise of working in the interests of the Predacon cause.
They keep making hollow promises to their people which they never properly fulfill. In other words, they're really good politicians! :D
There is dissent against the Tripredacus Council, it's written all over BW Megatron's face, thus prompting his actions because he's sick of waiting. They are dark and mysterious 'bots, let them plot and scheme in peace.
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As well as Megatron and Galvatron... various groups of malcontent groups form within the Predacons against the corruption of Tripredacus, but perhaps the iron grip of the Tripredacus makes them all too paranoid to make contact with each other -- much like in the current V series with the Fifth Column and other anti-Visitor resistance fighters operating independently of each other.
Indeed. Schemers all over the place.
I thought so. He's a genius and is seen reprogramming transwarp cells, so he must have had some history with the technology.
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I think the Vok were always aware -- they just didn't know that some of them had travelled back in time and 'contaminated' their experiments.
Indeed. Time Travel capability made them more interesting and thus more of a danger and must be eliminated.
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1: Tarantulas doesn't have a Spark that can return to the All Spark since he's of non-Cybertronian origin
2: After the Beast Wars ended, Tarantulas was ressurected in a blasphemous state of undeath because of the Vok power his body had absorbed at the moment of destruction (Undead Tarantulas = FoxKids! silver repaint of Transmetal Tarantulas). He rebuilt Ravage as Tripredacus Agent and began constructing new troops Razorclaw and Iguanus. The Vok responded to this threat by constructing Primal Prime (using the power of Optimus Prime's Matrix) and ressurected Tigatron and Airazor (as Transmetals).
Undead Tarantulas rips the Autobot Matrix out of Primal Prime's body
Tarantulas inside Unicron (Transformers Universe: events taking place after BM)
1. Yes he is. He is a Transformer and has a spark.
2. That contradicts what happens in Beast Wars: The gathering, where Magmatron puts Ravage's Spark into a new body and creates Tripredacus Agent. Contradictions all over the place.
I don't hold much stead in the BotCon comics, they serve their own purpose.
Contradictions all over the place, thus giving me even more leverage to make up my own story.
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Primus was killed by Unicron during G1. It was at this point that Powermaster Optimus Prime realised the true reason why Primus created the Transformers - not to fight in His stead, but to carry on after He was gone.
Primus and Unicron are also unable to battle on the astral plane since they were "imprisoned" in their metal world-bodies (and possibly the creation of the multiverse). This also contradicts the whole Unicron story arcs in existing Beast Wars continuity.
Carry on his stead after he was gone? No, that falls to the Vok in this case. The Transformers are to protect his slumbering conciousness and wield the Matrix against the physical form of Unicron. Ultimately, the battle will end on the astral plane, and so much time has passed since G1 and BW, so both of them could have reappeared on the astral plane.
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Up to you if you want to make your story "in-canon" or not, but if you want to, then these are some issues to consider.
This is basically my own Universe. As I said, I'm drawing on some canon, some non-canon, and making other stuff up.
I'm just trying to make a story that is logical and works from the 'end' of G1 and the Great War to the evolution of TransTech.
Questions?
