Solo: A Star Wars Story

It's not so much the money, but the bad PR that has resulted from all of this.

When you even have shills like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HtqN5FAK38

Saying Kennedy should step down, it's not a good look.

Kennedy hiring and firing multiple directors (Josh Trank, Gareth Edwards, Colin Trevorrow, Phil Lord, Chris Miller) makes her look massively incompetent. Couple that with a loss, and tanking in foreign markets, for instance China:

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China sampled the goods with Episode VII and decided to pass. And the franchise has been beset by diminishing returns each time out. Rogue One dropped 45% from Force Awakens. Last Jedi dropped 45% from Rogue One. And it looks like Solo is going to drop around 45% from Last Jedi. At this rate, Star Wars 9 will be lucky to earn $11.38 million in China.

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And it's still a PR nightmare even if they make money back on home releases and other merchandise.

Is a PR nightmware, is not about so what?

I can tell you right now, the more they take their time in rectifying Star Wars where its has gone wrong, the more money it looses.

You can throw more money into toys, Many people are not biting in fact TLJ ones are alarming even for lego.

And if people are not aware, Disney are NOW listening to the fans which was what Kathleen and Rian refused to care about. I don't know abut you guys but honestly TLJ would have walked quietly if the two didn't say anything wrong but the problem is they offended a lot. These things cost the franchise millions.

It may not be a big deal to you, but Disney is actually worried as this is NOT what they wanted. The brand is not ruined but is already fractured, this should not even happen by far. Solo is the beginning.

I remembered people saying this was a minority? just a bunch of disgruntled fanboys? I didn't know that was worth 50 mil? wow? or are we forgetting these disgruntled fanboys have families and also influences what the family watches? Or toys thathe/she will allow their kids to buy?

It not just a movie folks, everything you built on the brand can be brought down just by saying the wrong thing to the people who supported your brand. Everything.

Yeah because Kathleen Kennedy's the problem...

Josh Trank is known for being difficult to work with, Lord and Miller were way behind on schedule, they were most likely warned and in the end still got producers credits.

But hey you know dude's are infallible.

We should also hate on the actors and actresses as well because reasons.

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Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy

Yeah because Kathleen Kennedy's the problem...

Josh Trank is known for being difficult to work with, Lord and Miller were way behind on schedule, they were most likely warned and in the end still got producers credits.

But hey you know dude's are infallible.

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If you know a person is difficult to work with then why take the risk and hire them in the first place?

Lord and Miller were fired over creative differences:

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"Unfortunately, our vision and process weren’t aligned with our partners on this project. We normally aren’t fans of the phrase 'creative differences' but for once this cliché is true. We are really proud of the amazing and world-class work of our cast and crew."

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Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

We should also hate on the actors and actresses as well because reasons.

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So actors can't be critiqued and we must suck them off at every turn?

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Originally Posted by MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

So actors can't be critiqued and we must suck them off at every turn?

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Jesus man, settle down. Of course an actor’s character and their acting ability can be critiqued. But when the vitriol turns to personal attacks of a sexist/racist nature, then yeah the fandom is getting toxic.

Case in point: https://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entr...b06d1621b6b2bb

And she’s just closed her instagram account.

Edit: for the record I’m not accusing or implying anyone here is that toxic

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Originally Posted by shockNwave

If I understand your second point correctly, it looks like bringing more of a dark feel to the proceedings is a breath of fresh air and if so, then Rogue One is a good example as it ends with many good guys dying and the rebel fleet being smashed (which is more acceptable thanks to the impact made by Game of Thrones capacity to turn storytelling on it's head).

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In part, but only if you're going to work with what exists. Case in point, Rogue one with a couple of tweeks could have worked. All they needed to do was remove the Dark Troopers from the movie and go one of two ways. The first, which I'm not as much of a fan of, would have been a throwaway line which suggested that Kyle Katarn's copy of the plans had been boobytrapped with a trojan horse of some kind, requiring a second copy.

The second would have been for the Rogue One to end in defeat with all the characters dead in the end - followed on by a scene at the end, with Mon Montha contacting a young Kyle Katarn about striking a top secret second installation. Furthermore the hiring a high priced ace mercenary after Rebel Special Forces team got wiped out, smells of the kind of desperation which would drive such a decision.

And that's the problem - if Disney were respecting the material and working with it, then there wouldn't be half the problems there are.

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Originally Posted by drifand

I remembered people saying this was a minority? just a bunch of disgruntled fanboys? I didn't know that was worth 50 mil? wow? or are we forgetting these disgruntled fanboys have families and also influences what the family watches? Or toys thathe/she will allow their kids to buy?

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Didn't you know, we're just a bunch of "uppity cishet white patriarchal s***lords who need to check their privilege". :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy

So? It hasn't ruined anything or even hurt the brand. They put the movie out at the same time as Infinity War and some other movies, they'll still make Episode 9 and a bunch of other SW movies.

They'll probably do well at Christmas with the Solo home release.

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Actually Disney's share price dropped one percent directly due to Solo and has dropped 6% for the year to date, making the brand more liability than asset to Disney at this point: https://movieweb.com/solo-star-wars-...x-office-bomb/

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Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy

Yeah because Kathleen Kennedy's the problem...

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Actually her handling of fans is a serious part of the problem. You don't grow your business by treating customers like they don't matter and then telling them to piss off. Yet that's exactly what her approach has been.

All this attacking of males and particularly white males, who have largely and traditionally been the core audience of Star Wars, is financial stupidity. Anyone with her business experience should well be aware that when growing new markets for your product, you do so in a manner which doesn't alienate your core market.

All the problems which people have with The Last Jedi, wouldn't have been met with anywhere near the animosity they have if fans simply felt that this was a misstep (which it was - Johnson essentially tossed Abrams' plans for the trilogy on a dumpster fire and cause Colin Trevorrow to quit, while losing the plot so much that even Mark Hamill describe his character in it as "Jake Skywalker"), they were being heard, they were being valued, Disney cared about the Lore and things were going to be corrected in Episode 9.

That didn't happen. If a person walks into a store or a restaurant, gets terrible service, then gets abused by the staff, they're going to walk away, feel burned, never go back and tell all their friends to do the same.

That's exactly what happened here. TLJ is the most divisive Star Wars film to date and Kathleen Kennedy and the likes of Rian Johnson, have done nothing but fan the flames and add fuel to the fire. So how can anyone be surprised when much like with a bad store or restaurant experience, fans give Lucasfilm the finger by voting with their wallets.

The fact is that as the public face of Lucasfilm, Kathleen Kennedy has been a terrible brand ambassador for the product - which in this case, is Star Wars.

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Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy

Josh Trank is known for being difficult to work with, Lord and Miller were way behind on schedule, they were most likely warned and in the end still got producers credits.

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That will increase your costs, but it isn't to blame for the low turnout. In terms of the story there, Ron Howard was still able to crank out a workable movie in the end.

The problem is how this film was handled. People have commented that the trailers for Solo weren't as good or strategically placed as with Rogue One, there were debacles like removing the blaster from Han and Lando in movie posters which made people expect the worst, and as stated about, there was nothing to suggest to people who didn't like TLJ, that this movie would be any different than TLJ in terms of problems with it.

Also, let's be clear, Deadpool 2 had been out a week prior and Infinity War was already in cinemas for a couple of weeks prior. It wasn't competing with either film for an opening weekend. Likewise, the whole argument about it opening on the Memorial Day Weekend, was that it was supposed to be like playing tennis with the net down - there was no real competition for it in terms of opening weekends.

Yet it got hammered. Furthermore, up until now, other movies haven't been a threat to Star Wars, but rather it's been the other way around - where other movies lost money because they opened against Star Wars.

No matter how much people try and blame it just on Star Wars fatigue and directorial problems, it wont change the fact that the biggest problem has been that the brand has been damaged with cinemagoers due to repeated PR debacles.

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Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy

But hey you know dude's are infallible.

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I don't see anyone here saying that there weren't issues with male directors.

However why are you so threatened by acknowledging the concept that female corporate spokespeople and leaders are fallible?

After all, how is judging a female corporate spokesperson positively based on what is between her legs, rather than merit, any better than judging them negatively based on what is between their legs, rather than on merit.

After all, true equality means equality of accountability as well as equality of opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

Jesus man, settle down. Of course an actor’s character and their acting ability can be critiqued. But when the vitriol turns to personal attacks of a sexist/racist nature, then yeah the fandom is getting toxic.

Case in point: https://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entr...b06d1621b6b2bb

And she’s just closed her instagram account.

Edit: for the record I’m not accusing or implying anyone here is that toxic

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I agree, there is toxicity running through the fandom, whether it's racism, like what happened to Kelly Tran, or whether it's race-baiting like this, it has to stop.

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Originally Posted by MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

I agree, there is toxicity running through the fandom, whether it's racism, like what happened to Kelly Tran, or whether it's race-baiting like this, it has to stop.

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Seconded, there's absolutely no excuse for it. Furthermore,not only is it unnecessary, but it only cheapens legitimate concerns regarding Disney's handling of the franchise. In short, noone really wins in the end with it.

The problem is that it's like there's two opposing groups of Sith on each side.

There's those who racebait and and harass people, and then there's the SJW crowd who just want to shut up anyone who dares take issue with their culutral Marxist masterpiece as they clearly see it.

To these ideologues , Star Wars movies are "just movies". Yet the same ideologues have dogmatically decided that it is entirely justifiable to mock, troll and silence anyone who takes issue with them for any reason - thereby committing the "heresy" of daring to fail to worship the ground they walk on. They then demand that the "heretic" look up the definition of irony when their hypocrisy is pointed out to them.

I just had to block three trolls on facebook tonight because I dared take issue with George's backstory for Han and Chewie being discarded by the new movie.

Honestly, I'm not sure who's worse. Yes the haters act absolutely abominably, but at least they can recognise at some level that they're behaving horribly and with a healthy dose of keyboard courage.

Not even the prequel debates polarised people this much, and the heat Lucas copped caused him to sell Lucasfilm off to Disney just to be rid of it.

At this point, Star Wars, at least in terms of the community, is fractured beyond repair and ruined.

Maybe the fandom will unite, but given the damage, the ever increasing divide between those who want the mythos respected and those pushing their own agendas and the vitriol on both extremes which is creeping increasingly towards the centre, I really don't see how the damage can be undone and the rift repaired.

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

Seconded, there's absolutely no excuse for it. Furthermore,not only is it unnecessary, but it only cheapens legitimate concerns regarding Disney's handling of the franchise. In short, noone really wins in the end with it.

The problem is that it's like there's two opposing groups of Sith on each side.

There's those who racebait and and harass people, and then there's the SJW crowd who just want to shut up anyone who dares take issue with their culutral Marxist masterpiece as they clearly see it.

To these ideologues , Star Wars movies are "just movies". Yet the same ideologues have dogmatically decided that it is entirely justifiable to mock, troll and silence anyone who takes issue with them for any reason - thereby committing the "heresy" of daring to fail to worship the ground they walk on. They then demand that the "heretic" look up the definition of irony when their hypocrisy is pointed out to them.

I just had to block three trolls on facebook tonight because I dared take issue with George's backstory for Han and Chewie being discarded by the new movie.

Honestly, I'm not sure who's worse. Yes the haters act absolutely abominably, but at least they can recognise at some level that they're behaving horribly and with a healthy dose of keyboard courage.

Not even the prequel debates polarised people this much, and the heat Lucas copped caused him to sell Lucasfilm off to Disney just to be rid of it.

At this point, Star Wars, at least in terms of the community, is fractured beyond repair and ruined.

Maybe the fandom will unite, but given the damage, the ever increasing divide between those who want the mythos respected and those pushing their own agendas and the vitriol on both extremes which is creeping increasingly towards the centre, I really don't see how the damage can be undone and the rift repaired.

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Nope.

This shitfight of extremes between the fandom is not “creeping toward the centre”. It’s the stupid “If you’re not with me, you’re against me!!” mentality that those on the edges display because they don’t want to admit there is a centre, because if there is a centre, and you’re not in it, well then you’re a crazy fanboy.

The SW fandom likes to think it is the majority and that the things they think, say and do can have an impact. But I guarantee you that Disney understands that the majority of the people that rock up to a Star Wars movie don’t give a shit about whether Disney is respecting ol’ George’s original vision about Han and Chewie because they don’t know and frankly, don’t care. They haven’t spent hours reading EU books and comics that perpetuated the boring, one dimensional character that Luke was to be horrified when he threw aside his lightsaber (the cinema I was in erupted in laughter). Most of the people that see a Star Wars movie just want to be entertained by space wizards with laser swords and see space ships, wacky droids, and Stormtroopers missing whatever they’re aiming for. If tomorrow you asked 90% of the people that saw TLJ at the movies who Rian Johnson was, they wouldn’t have a clue. Hell, I consider myself a pretty decent Star Wars fan and I couldn’t even tell you the name of the guy that directed my favourite SW movie, ESB without looking it up.

I think that the assertion that Solo “failed” because of the direction Disney has taken is just utter trash. It’s not because the lead was white, it’s not because Rian Johnson ruined our lives, it’s not because Kathleen Kennedy hates SW fans. It’s because the majority of the movie goers, like me, are a bit over the frequency of Star Wars films. It’s burnout. Simple.

And no, SW cannot be compared to the MCU because they are vastly different in what they are, and what they are trying to achieve.

At least the Transformers fandom (to a degree) understands this. That while most fans think the Bay movies sucked, we understood we were not the target audience.

TL;DR: Star Wars fandom needs to extract its head from its own anus.

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Originally Posted by Trent

The SW fandom likes to think it is the majority and that the things they think, say and do can have an impact.

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Yes and no, I don't think the majority are the SW fandom, but it's myopic to think they're not going to have an impact because casual moviegoers outnumber them. In investment terms, the SW fandom is the equivalent of Blue Chips investments - the safe core of your investment portfolio; yes you want to attract other audiences, but it's foolish to alienate that audience, because in the days of social media, they are just as crucial a part of generating hype as everyone else. Remove that hype or worse, generate a negative buzz around it, and that is something which the casual moviegoer is going to pick up on.

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Originally Posted by Trent

I think that the assertion that Solo “failed” because of the direction Disney has taken is just utter trash.

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Only if you ignore the impact fans will have on the buzz around a movie in this social media age.

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Originally Posted by Trent

it’s not because Kathleen Kennedy hates SW fans.

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Again though, alienating fans is going to affect the buzz surrounding the movie, so you can't realistically look at this in a vacuum.

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Originally Posted by Trent

But I guarantee you that Disney understands that the majority of the people that rock up to a Star Wars movie don’t give a shit about whether Disney is respecting ol’ George’s original vision about Han and Chewie because they don’t know and frankly, don’t care. They haven’t spent hours reading EU books and comics that perpetuated the boring, one dimensional character that Luke was to be horrified when he threw aside his lightsaber (the cinema I was in erupted in laughter). Most of the people that see a Star Wars movie just want to be entertained by space wizards with laser swords and see space ships, wacky droids, and Stormtroopers missing whatever they’re aiming for.

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I completely agree that the casual movie-goer simply wants to have a good time and see an enjoyable movie and aren't going to get hung up on canon. However they are going to be swayed by whether the buzz around a particular Star Wars movie is good or bad and base their decision to watch it on that to a reasonable extent. The thing is that it's the fans who will pay that much attention and do care about things like respect for canon, who are going to create that buzz- either good or bad.

Remember, the most effective form of advertising is word-of-mouth.

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Originally Posted by Trent

It’s because the majority of the movie goers, like me, are a bit over the frequency of Star Wars films. It’s burnout. Simple.

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That doesn't hold true though. If the hype were there, then people would be turning up in droves - even if it was 6 months apart; Black Panther's proximity to Infinity War is a textbook example of this. The fact is that TLJ was divisive and had mixed reviews, while Disney alienated the fandom rather than reaching out to them, whereby they would have generated hype about Solo. That didn't happen, so what marketing that was done, wasn't supported or hyped up anywhere near as much as it could have been. The end result was a killed-off buzz around this movie - hence a feeling of fatigue among general moviegoers.

And no, that's not saying that casual movie-goers don't matter compared to fans; rather it is saying that with established franchises, while casual movie-goers get swept up in and ride the wave created by the hype, it is the fandom which is the group which is instrumental in creating that wave to begin with. Without that wave, there's simply nothing for casual movie-goers to get swept up in to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Trent

And no, SW cannot be compared to the MCU because they are vastly different in what they are, and what they are trying to achieve.

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Howso? How are the two not trying to build a massive cinematic universe with a tapestry of stand-alone and event movies which both appeal to the fandom and generate and maintain wider audience appeal?

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Originally Posted by Trent

At least the Transformers fandom (to a degree) understands this. That while most fans think the Bay movies sucked, we understood we were not the target audience.

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You're comparing apples and oranges here though. SW fans were introduced to the property through the original films and then the prequels so for them, it's very much centred around the films. The same cannot be said for Bayformers, where you really do need to draw a distinction between the transfandom and bayformerfandom, where there will in some cases, be some overlap. The reaction from the transfandom wont do much to to kill a Bayformer movie (though I hear fire helps ;):D ), but, if you start talking about say, the Bayformerfandom, such as with ROTF in the case of Western Markets and TLK in China, then it's a very different story.

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Originally Posted by Trent

TL;DR: Star Wars fandom needs to extract its head from its own anus.

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I find it interesting how everyone was saying that before this movie came out - right down to the fact that Solo would be a success, the boycott would achieve nothing and Disney wouldn't feel it if it did happen. Yet the complete opposite has happened. While I'm sure many people in Disney and who are viewing these new movies as vehicles for Cultural Marxism, would love it if fans did suddenly become silent and compliant, it's not going to be happened and it's a factor you ignore at your peril as Lucasfilm.

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

I find it interesting how everyone was saying that before this movie came out - right down to the fact that Solo would be a success, the boycott would achieve nothing and Disney wouldn't feel it if it did happen.

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Funny, most of what I had read was the quite opposite, that this was gonna be a bomb. A lot of articles just post-TLJ mention this:

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Disney is bracing themselves for the Han Solo movie to bomb. They were worried about it before all The Last Jedi controversy, but now they’re essentially writing Solo off. The lead actor, Alden Ehrenreich, can’t act, and they had a dialogue coach on hand for all of his scenes. On top of that, the script is unworkable. It’s going to be a car crash.

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Source: https://www.screengeek.net/2017/12/2...story-to-bomb/

There are multiple reasons for the flop depending on demographics. TLJ backlash was definitely a factor for the serious fans. Bad publicity and lukewarm word of mouth for the casual movie-goer. For my mates, they cited Star Wars fatigue as to why they hadn’t seen Solo yet.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe is a joy to movie-goers but a pain in the arse for movie studios. Marvel captured lightning in a bottle and every other franchise has been left standing there staring at a clear sky. Stop trying to be Marvel everyone!

I don’t think is fatigue at all. And I think everyone knows the reason and just not owning up.

Sad to say if the actor can’t act and they still carried on then this is their fault.
Personally it doesn’t bug me, I am not expecting a replication of Harrison Ford.

If they are cancelling solo sequel and think people are going to watch Rian’s trilogy more then I think we expect Disney to continue to loose more. End of the day is Disney’s money so they are entitled to say or make what they want.

People just vote with their wallets.

For me personally, I have never seen Star Wars in such a state, to me is kinda sad. There has never been so much bad talk I have seen in my life for this franchise after tlj.

I just hope they control the damage and do it quickly.

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Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

Funny, most of what I had read was the quite opposite, that this was gonna be a bomb. A lot of articles just post-TLJ mention this:

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To be clear, I was referring to the public face and line of Disney and their shills.

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Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

For my mates, they cited Star Wars fatigue as to why they hadn’t seen Solo yet.

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Yet fatigue can only set in when the wave has died down - until that happens, everyone generally just keeps riding the high as the MCU proves. That's why I have a hard time seeing the "fatigue" argument as being anything other than myopic. Sure it's happening on the surface, but when you start to scratch the surface and look at the hype or lack thereof which caused it, there's far more to it than mere burnout.

I'm not discounting the experience of them or their reasons. I simply consider the "it's burnout" argument to be analogous to having someone die from a car crash and insist that they "just died from the car crash", without digging deeper to what caused the crash to begin with.

That where I think the fan backlash played a huge part. I'd argue that the fans are generally your stone in the pond that causes the ripples, or rather waves. They turn around and get hyped, they get other people hyped, other people get other people hyped, and so it continues.

Given how divisive TLJ was, not only did you have a lack of hype, but the opposite, so you have a marketer's worst nightmare- negative word of mouth advertising.

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Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

The Marvel Cinematic Universe is a joy to movie-goers but a pain in the arse for movie studios. Marvel captured lightning in a bottle and every other franchise has been left standing there staring at a clear sky. Stop trying to be Marvel everyone!

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Yet the MCU has merely mimicked the original Lightning in a bottle, which is Star Wars. That's the problem with saying they're not the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

Jesus man, settle down. Of course an actor’s character and their acting ability can be critiqued. But when the vitriol turns to personal attacks of a sexist/racist nature, then yeah the fandom is getting toxic.

Case in point: https://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entr...b06d1621b6b2bb

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In light of what I've experienced on facebook in the past 24 hours in relation to this, there is one thing I wanted to touch on here. The sexism and racism aren't the problem here, they're simply a vehicle for the bigger problem.

The divide in the fandom has brought the worst out in people. People out there aren't interested in discussion on the fringes, but in shutting up and shutting down everyone who does not adhere to their ideology: Star Wars has become a battleground of the Alt Right and Alt Left.

Racism and sexism get used because they're nasty and are likely to cut deeply without trying too hard, but they're simply tools for the intent.

The intent here is to be as nasty as possible to shut people down. In the past 24 hours on facebook, I stated I was critical of the needless change to Lucas' original backstory to Chewie. Things got real nasty real quickly - I was hit with constant accusations that I was a loser, having a sad life, mental illness based slurs, emasculating attacks, chauvinism; it was anything to shut me up and shut me down (I was just lucky that thanks to decades of psychological abuse, these people were rank amateurs and I was able to civilly hold my ground without stooping to their level). It started with one person, then two more joined in. In the end, it was hard to tell whether there were more nasty text posts, or more s***posting memes meant nastily. Then today, after I blocked the three last night, another joined in. In among it all, they then, after acting like I'd committed some secular heresy, claimed "dude.... it's just a movie" - irony much.

You can bet that if Kelly Marie Tran or anyone deemed "the enemy" by this war of extremists have been beaten of molested as a child, that the "righteous crusaders" would think nothing of using it as a weapon to attack their target with.

The racism and sexism are horrible vehicles, but let's be clear, they are just that vehicles for the underlying intent. They're not being used because of a person's sex or a person's race; they're being used because someone has been othered by an ideological camp and deemed so virulent and such a threat that it justifies them being taken down by any means necessary.

It's ironic, Star Wars drew so many people to it because its message of hope brought out the best in people. Meanwhile, these current movies are bringing out the worst in people. It's a tragic shame. *sigh* :(

Goddamit I had a whole reply typed out then the stupid browser logged me out and now I've lost it and I can't be arsed typing it all over again.

But in a nutshell:

1. MCU took four years involving two successes (Iron Man 1 & 2), solid results (Thor, Captain America) and a bomb (Incredible Hulk) before they really gained momentum with 2-3 releases each year bringing in a minimum $500 million. Despite Star Wars' immense popularity, I personally didn't expect them to reach the heights MCU has built on over the past 10 years.

2. Social media sucks, people suck, and I don't give a crap whether Star Wars characters are black/white/female/male or the reasons as to why they cast this way.

3. Solo failed for many reasons, all of them right one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

1. MCU took four years involving two successes (Iron Man 1 & 2), solid results (Thor, Captain America) and a bomb (Incredible Hulk) before they really gained momentum with 2-3 releases each year bringing in a minimum $500 million. Despite Star Wars' immense popularity, I personally didn't expect them to reach the heights MCU has built on over the past 10 years.

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Star Wars has been around 40 years. According to Box Office Mojo's Adjusted movie takings figures It had two immediate successes over three years, with ANH making an adjusted US Domestic gross of $1,631,575,500 and ESB making an adjusted US Domestic gross of $899,334,600 - in fact they're the 2nd and 13th highest domestic grossing movies of all time on adjusted figures.

Likewise ROTJ (#16) had an adjusted US Domestic gross of $861,584,200.

Jar Jar didn't even remotely harm Episode 1's takings (#18), with it making an adjusted US Domestic gross of $827,258,600.

It had its one bomb of Episode 2 (#97), taking in an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $489,771,200. Even then it still out-did the first two Hunger Games movies at #104 and #102 respectively.

It then recovered with Episode 3 (#67) making an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $543,413,200.

Then The Force Awakens shot up to #11 with an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $990,334,300.

Rogue One (#60) came in at an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $553,645,200.

For all its divisiveness, The Last Jedi (#43), bounced back with an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $619,169,000.

The worst offering in there, Episode 2, has an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $489,771,200 - just over $10,000 shy of that $500k mark on US Domestic figures alone.

Conversely the highest grossing Marvel movies, Avengers (#29), Black Panther (#30) and Avengers Ave of Ultron (#96), failed to reach the heights of even then Phantom Menace - with Avengers making an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $704,231,900, a good $124,000 less than it.

Meanwhile, Iron Man 3 (#113), Captain America Civil War (#123), Iron Man (#140), Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (#148), Guardians of the Galaxy (#172) and Iron Man 2 (#189), didn't even match the height of even Episode 2, with Iron Man 3 making an adjusted US Domestic Gross of $447,459,600 - more than $40k less than Episode 2. All the others didn't make the list.

In short, not only are both long enduring franchises and high earning franchises, but if anything it's not a case of Star Wars not meeting the heights of the MCU, but rather the other way around.

One of what no doubt will be the many research / opinions out there on why Solo flopped, this one from a investment research firm:

https://cowen.bluematrix.com/sellsid...om&source=mail

Short, sharp and to the point. Basically it all came down to piss poor marketing

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

Racism and sexism get used because they're nasty and are likely to cut deeply without trying too hard, but they're simply tools for the intent.

The intent here is to be as nasty as possible to shut people down.

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

The racism and sexism are horrible vehicles, but let's be clear, they are just that vehicles for the underlying intent. They're not being used because of a person's sex or a person's race

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Sorry, but I can't go past this. That's absurd.

If you're using someone's sex or race as a tool to be nasty to them, that makes you a sexist, or a racist, full stop.

(That also goes for mental health too, for the record)

'It wasn't meant pejoratively, it was just something said to get a rise and it doesn't mean that the person saying it actually hates X group' is the piss poorest of excuses for that kind of behaviour. Essentially you're suggesting that as long as you marry abusing some disadvantaged group to a barely coherent point or cause of some type you get a free pass.

(This also applies to the abuse you took for your mental health too, for the record, and I'm sorry that happened to you)

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Originally Posted by SharkyMcShark

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

Racism and sexism get used because they're nasty and are likely to cut deeply without trying too hard, but they're simply tools for the intent.

The intent here is to be as nasty as possible to shut people down.
The racism and sexism are horrible vehicles, but let's be clear, they are just that vehicles for the underlying intent. They're not being used because of a person's sex or a person's race; they're being used because someone has been othered by an ideological camp and deemed so virulent and such a threat that it justifies them being taken down by any means necessary.

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Sorry, but I can't go past this. That's absurd.

If you're using someone's sex or race as a tool to be nasty to them, that makes you a sexist, or a racist, full stop.

(That also goes for mental health too, for the record)

'It wasn't meant pejoratively, it was just something said to get a rise and it doesn't mean that the person saying it actually hates X group' is the piss poorest of excuses for that kind of behaviour. Essentially you're suggesting that as long as you marry abusing some disadvantaged group to a barely coherent point or cause of some type you get a free pass.

(This also applies to the abuse you took for your mental health too, for the record, and I'm sorry that happened to you)

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Actually you're completely off the mark here. Mind you, given how close to home and uncomfortable what I am about to say will be for some people, that's not surprising. After all, better to oversimplify the problem than be forced to admit to being part of the culture which caused it - generally speaking that is.

There is no question that the behaviour in question is racist and sexist. There is also no question that given the nature of the attitudes and behaviours in question that the individuals in question are not automatically racist and sexist. They may be, but what's driving this is so much worse than that.

The thing about actual racist and sexist individuals is that they actually believe what they say; these people don't.

The thing about ventriloquists, the good ones that is, is that they can get away with making politically incorrect commentary by having the puppet make it, while the ventriloquist then gets offended at it, because the puppet "isn't real" - even though the voice behind the puppet, the ventriloquist, is very real and standing right there.

In my more than 15 years of being on online message boards and social media, I can honestly say that the same holds true for the bad behaviour an instances of bullying I have seen on message boards. It is all too often excused and ignored because it's just "names on a screen" (read "fictional characters") and therefore "not real".

When someone is "not real", then much like what comes out of a puppet's mouth, what gets said to that "fictional character", doesn't matter, because they're "not real". It's where the phrase "fictional characters" comes from. To this mentality, you can't be racist, because whatever you say cannot make you an actual bigot because the target "isn't real", so you can say whatever you want, regardless of whether you actually believe it.

It becomes an interactive version of bashing a piñata with a stick. They're traditionally made in the shape of a horse, but just because a person does it, doesn't mean that they secretly desire to bash every single horse or donkey they see with a stick until they're beating a dead horse into glue dust. After all, that's what those racist and sexist barbs were in the minds of these individuals - nothing more than swipes with a stick at a piñata.

In fact Tober put me onto this meme from March 19, 2004, years ago, which is proof of it.

When social media evolved, things didn't get any better, in fact facebook has in many ways made things worse, but recently it's gotten even worse. As bad as this was, it's not the worst thing to happen to someone in the Star Wars community due to this bad behaviour. No, that award goes to the lowlifes who swatted Matt Jarbo back in 2016. For those not familiar with the term, it's where someone calls the police on someone in such a way that the police dispatch a SWAT team to their homes (and for any sick twisted POS reading this who might think that's funny, no it actually isn't). Given all the ways it could go wrong, it's tantamount to attempted murder by cop. Then again at least Matt Jarbo was able to live to tell the tale; this guy wasn't so lucky.

To the mind of whoever did that, it was perfectly ok, because in their mind, Matt Jarbo wasn't a "real person". That's where this mentality of treating "fictional characters" like crap by any means necessary being acceptable, because they're "not real" and the bullying and bigotry is also "not real" has led society to.

When that is the mentality of someone, leaving a few racist slurs and bullying someone off a social media account, is deemed trivial.

And that's just it, to these people, Kelly Marie Tran was no different to a fictional character, so in their mind, they couldn't be racist to her or sexist to her, because in their mind, she wasn't a "real person".

That isn't the mentality of a racist.

That isn't the mentality of a sexist.

That is the mentality of a complete psychopath and sociopath.

Take it from someone who had the misfortune of taking one in at the end of 2016, only to be in fear of their life within 3 weeks of them being there.

At least with people who are just racist and sexist, there is enough basic empathy there that you can educate away the bigotry.

Not so with people like this. These people are dangerous, degenerate monsters and deserve to be treated as such.

To reduce this to mere sexism or racism, is to minimise, trivialise and excuse it.

Although as I said previously, having been around various fan communities for over 15 years now, I can honestly see why people would want to make this just about racism and sexism; in this case, garden-variety bigots do make an incredibly convenient and credible scapegoats.

After all, if the true nature of the problem were acknowledged, it would mean acknowledging that the culture of individuals treating people like scum because all they see said individuals as nothing more than avatars and screen-names, brought rise to this culture of using anything to attack "faceless individuals" - even such disgusting things as racism and sexism.

In turn it would require multiple people to take a look in the mirror and own the fact that the culture they have contributed to through their behaviour on message boards, is a culture where it is deemed acceptable to use even racism and sexism as mere weapons of convenience in attacking "faceless characters" they don't like and even potentially subjecting them to death by SWAT team. After all, if you lob a stone in the pond, you're responsible for creating the ripples it makes.

But then that's the thing about the oxymoron of "keyboard courage", isn't it?

Just remember people, this topic is for talking about the Solo Movie - either the actual movie, or its production & popularity.

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Originally Posted by griffin

Just remember people, this topic is for talking about the Solo Movie - either the actual movie, or its production & popularity.

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Then that would mean talking about psychopaths/sociopaths like Bowspearer has done would mean describing the aforementioned villains as Siths because after all, there is a reference to the Sith in Solo.

I saw it with my wife - I enjoyed it as did she. The movie did its job - focus on Han, Chewy and Lando. Zero care factor for others really. I got the feeling they were prepping for Solo #2 though.

What annoyed me though was the couple next to us brought in their takeaways and then started taking photos of it, my wife suggested I swap seats with her as my annoyance level was fast approaching tipping point!

Saw it, loved it !
One of my fave Star Wars movies.

As for all the negativity and whether it was a bomb or not I could give a rats ass, I like what I like.

... and fanboy carry on makes me laugh

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Originally Posted by Starscream77

Saw it, loved it !
One of my fave Star Wars movies.

As for all the negativity and whether it was a bomb or not I could give a rats ass, I like what I like.

... and fanboy carry on makes me laugh

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Yes, I am one of the massive fans deliberately not going to see it. But I love that other fans who are going enjoy it so much.

Great signature SS77 :D:D

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Originally Posted by Starscream77

Saw it, loved it !
One of my fave Star Wars movies.

As for all the negativity and whether it was a bomb or not I could give a rats ass, I like what I like.

... and fanboy carry on makes me laugh

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Solo (like Rogue One) is a balanced affair. As a result it has enough of an old school feel and enough of a modern SFX feel that makes it better than TFA and TLJ which seem to be chasing the younger generations more than us oldies.

It’s a bit of a shame that the least controversial Star Wars film is suffering box office wise due to fallout from the most divisive one.

Solo was just plain fun, even if it seemed a little shallow on character building. I feel like Han’s backstory could’ve been fleshed out into a trilogy, rather than crammed into a solo (heh) movie.

I don't think we can blame Solo's box office woes entirely on the last film, did it have an effect? Sure but I think Solo and the franchise in general has it's own issues.

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Originally Posted by shockNwave

Solo (like Rogue One) is a balanced affair. As a result it has enough of an old school feel and enough of a modern SFX feel that makes it better than TFA and TLJ which seem to be chasing the younger generations more than us oldies.

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I'm one of those oldies, but having seen lots of films in my time makes me crave more in my movie experience. Solo plays it so safe it came across as mediocre for me, I'd rather the highs and lows (and both films have both) of TFA and TLJ than the tepid waters of Solo.

Still, I'm glad some people are enjoying it more than I did, I don't want Star Wars to go away, but maybe we can have a little less of it, make it special again.

They need to fix up their PR first and I mean Now.

I am no idea why would they not being instructed to just stay away from unhappy fans and just let them be? Instead adding more salt to wounds and making things go bad. < I am kinda of tired of any side of it.

For me I enjoy Solo more, it feels really star Wars halfway through but not at the beginning. I am hearing that they want to get Darth Maul back and into other movies.

A new sith also has been announced.

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Originally Posted by drifand

They need to fix up their PR first and I mean Now.

I am no idea why would they not being instructed to just stay away from unhappy fans and just let them be? Instead adding more salt to wounds and making things go bad. < I am kinda of tired of any side of it.

For me I enjoy Solo more, it feels really star Wars halfway through but not at the beginning. I am hearing that they want to get Darth Maul back and into other movies.

A new sith also has been announced.

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Darth Maul is dead and there's no coming back from that. Unless that was a sith clone that died in TPM or the one in Solo is the clone.

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Originally Posted by shockNwave

Darth Maul is dead and there's no coming back from that. Unless that was a sith clone that died in TPM or the one in Solo is the clone.

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Darth Maul has been in the Clone Wars cartoon (set between Ep 2 and 3) and the Rebels cartoon (set just before Rogue One), which are both part of the Movie Universe... and the Solo movie is set between Ep 3 and Rebels, so Maul is alive during that time. (how he survived Ep1 was explained in the Clone Wars cartoon)




Spoilers... maybe....



Ep 1 - introduced and then cut in half at the waist

Ep 2

Clone Wars - returned with the lower half being cybernetic (remember, most of Darth Vader was machine as well, so it is possible to survive losing half your body if your will, and force power is strong enough to keep you alive long enough to be saved)
Ep3
Solo Movie - cameo as the head of a criminal organisation

Rebels cartoon - appears, proclaims that he is no longer a Sith, and later dies at the hands of Obi Wan.
Rogue One
Ep4.... and so on.

thanks Griffin,

Yes, I think they intending to insert Maul into the Obi Wan movie, but again is all talks from what I gathered.

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Originally Posted by griffin

Clone Wars - returned with the lower half being cybernetic (remember, most of Darth Vader was machine as well, so it is possible to survive losing half your body if your will, and force power is strong enough to keep you alive long enough to be saved)

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A butt load of hatred helps too :D

Thanks for clearing that up, Griffin. That cameo appearance at the end of Solo is no longer confusing.

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Originally Posted by drifand

thanks Griffin,

Yes, I think they intending to insert Maul into the Obi Wan movie, but again is all talks from what I gathered.

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I don't think that is necessarily going to be the case. More likely that you will see him pop up in a Boba Fett movie. I base this on what occurs in Star Wars Rebels. I don't want to give away spoilers so if you are interested then you may want to look into it. If you have not watched Rebels, I highly recommend it.

I finally made it to the cinemas and saw Solo. I don't know if it was the low expectations I had going in, but I rather enjoyed it. The movie explained some fantastic little unanswered questions from the OT (ie the Falcon computer's quirky attitude, that Han shot first, the differing pronunciation of Han - just to name a few). Also, the story itself was original and provided some solid background to Han's personality.

I think there has been a lot of hate and vitriol being spread around. There is no doubt that TLJ is the catalyst for this given the polarising views people take on that movie. I would recommend that everyone who has not seen Solo just give it a chance. I was pleasantly surprised.

Final note, I disliked TLJ for a number of reasons but that is no reason to ever abuse or harass any of the actors, staff or those involved in the production, or any proponent of an alternate view. Such a shame that it is next to impossible to have a civilised discussion about the issue on the internet...

I thought it was interesting that Han's woman was wearing the same half moon gold plate as Darth Maul on her black dress earlier in the movie when Han met her again.

It's currently movie of the week at Event and Hoyts cinemas (i.e. cheaper tickets), so my partner and I decided to watch it a second time.

I still really enjoyed it, and it's a shame a less divisive movie didn't do as well as TLJ. I feel like there is a better chemistry between the characters, despite the level of mistrust and suspicion they have with each other, compared to the characters in the sequels. The more I watch, the more I appreciate Donald Glover's portrayal of Lando. I wish there is more of him in future movies. There's enough subtle references to previous material like Bossk, Teras Kasi and Lando's guard armour. And I really loved how the composer referenced some of the music from the OT as well.

My only major gripe is the fact that they completely ignored Han's career in the Imperial Navy and how he got booted out. They clearly wanted to jump into the whole meeting Lando/ Millenium Falcon/ Kessel Run story, but I feel this was at a cost to character development.

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Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

My only major gripe is the fact that they completely ignored Han's career in the Imperial Navy and how he got booted out. They clearly wanted to jump into the whole meeting Lando/ Millenium Falcon/ Kessel Run story, but I feel this was at a cost to character development.

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If you cast your mind back to A New Hope and the scene onboard the Death Star where Han is on the intercom after seizing the detention level, you'll notice he's nervous talking to the imperial officer. If the movie version of Han really did have the imperial navy background then he would've been quite confident over the intercom.

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Originally Posted by shockNwave

If the movie version of Han really did have the imperial navy background then he would've been quite confident over the intercom.

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Unless he was worried about someone potentially recognising his voice that is.

Bowspearer, let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.


Fun movie, just watched it with my dad who liked it to.

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Originally Posted by philby

Bowspearer, let the past die. Kill it, if you have to.

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Not going to happen when I actually care about quality storytelling, which isn't going to change any time soon.

A society which happily "switches off their brains" when partaking in one of the oldest forms of sharing knowledge on the planet, is a society of fools.