I need to vent!

There is a rather good debate about this whole issue on Q&A right now. I'm finding the former UN guy in particular to be very intelligent and insightful

One thing I hate seeing is people protesting against military intervention by the West, instead of protesting against the people who are actually slaughtering civilians, starting conflicts, or even committing genocide. Do they not realise that by protesting against military intervention they are actually showing support for the aggressors to continue killing people freely.... because they aren't going to stop killing before they are finished.

It's not like the western military are picking fights with random peaceful countries and go in to murder the women and children... they are often being sent in to respond to the people who are actually doing the killing of women and children.
And then the weaker political leaders who are facing elections or bad poll numbers decide to pull out before the threat is eradicated or that other country is able to fend for itself.

There are now calls for troops to be sent into Syria because the airstrikes aren't doing enough, but after the mess that was left in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Libya and Cuba, it's no wonder western powers are hesitant with sending in anyone... and who of us would have any faith in it actually improving things.
Since the second world war, the West hasn't had much luck with improving warzone situations that they have been involved in.

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Originally Posted by griffin

One thing I hate seeing is people protesting against military intervention by the West, instead of protesting against the people who are actually slaughtering civilians, starting conflicts, or even committing genocide. Do they not realise that by protesting against military intervention they are actually showing support for the aggressors to continue killing people freely.... because they aren't going to stop killing before they are finished.

It's not like the western military are picking fights with random peaceful countries and go in to murder the women and children... they are often being sent in to respond to the people who are actually doing the killing of women and children.
And then the weaker political leaders who are facing elections or bad poll numbers decide to pull out before the threat is eradicated or that other country is able to fend for itself.

There are now calls for troops to be sent into Syria because the airstrikes aren't doing enough, but after the mess that was left in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea, Libya and Cuba, it's no wonder western powers are hesitant with sending in anyone... and who of us would have any faith in it actually improving things.
Since the second world war, the West hasn't had much luck with improving warzone situations that they have been involved in.

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Yes, totally agree. All those wars that you mentioned are more political or ideological and even economically driven. They gradually started causing messes that following generations have to put up with. The last war that was about our survival for our culture, our nation and way of life was World War II. Unfortunately, we are in a situation again where those values are threatened but the previous failed wars and the cultural shifts and ideology that has risen from them have divided and blinded us.

For the issue of Iraq and how politicians treat war from the safety of their home or office, I cannot recommend the Fahrenheit 9/11 movie by Michael Moore enough.
It might be ten years old and focuses on a previous presidential administration, but it is a great reminder of what presidential self-interests can negatively affect the rest of the world, a bit like a dictatorship.
It detailed that Bush didn't want to invade Afghanistan to go after Osama... but eventually agreed to it on the condition that he was able to get America to invade Iraq after it.
It also noted that of the 500+ members of congress (the federal politicians) only one had a child serving in Iraq at the time he was filming the movie (2004)... suggesting that politicians wouldn't have been as eager to commit to Bush's war if people they were related to or even knew were the ones dying or being maimed.

Bush Senior did a half-assed job by leaving Hussein in charge of Iraq after liberating Kuwait, prompting Bush Junior to use his "personal army" (as commander in chief) to go in later, but also did a half-assed job by focussing on hunting down Hussein instead of regime change for the oppressed people of Iraq with a strategy of a stable transition.
(plus there was the added bonus of Bush using the taxpayer funded military to destroy much of Iraq's infrastructure and military, and then have construction, oil and private security companies that the Bush Family and their business friends owned, get exclusive government contracts that were forced on the new Iraqi regime)

Yeah I have seen Fahrenheit 9/11. To put it simply, the mess we have now can be directly atributed to that administration. In a rational world, they would all be on trial for war crimes and corruption.

Nevertheless, we can't cry over spilled milk and simply face the consequences and clean it up even if we didn't spill it ourselves. Otherwise we have to pay the consequences as we are now. The problem that I see is that every time ISIS does anything, people don't get angry at ISIS for their atrocities but instead goes into an idiotic right vs left bitch fight so essentially people fight amongs themselves while ISIS gets free promo.

Why can't all of them just focus their anger on the murderers causing this and those who support them?

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Originally Posted by kup

The problem that I see is that every time ISIS does anything, people don't get angry at ISIS for their atrocities but instead goes into an idiotic right vs left bitch fight so essentially people fight amongs themselves while ISIS gets free promo.

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That's a good point and commentators both sides have said it helps the terrorists propaganda machine by doing so

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Originally Posted by Handsprime

When you realise that you got a package today but wasn't aware of it despite the fact you were home at 4pm when it came and you learned about it at 5pm :rolleyes:

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I had a same experience but because I really did not know that my item already has been shipped! I am relaxed that it may just be delayed or on queue patiently waiting for shipping notification but then checked and logged on my account on the site before i sleep and saw my order "fulfilled" 4 days ago without them sending me any notification. My wife said "ah yeah you got missed parcel notice in our mail today" and made me look like i did not declare that item to her. The good part is that it was sent by Aus post otherwise its gonna be a pain to get the parcel :(

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Originally Posted by BigTransformerTrev

That's a good point and commentators both sides have said it helps the terrorists propaganda machine by doing so

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To get angry towards ISIL means that sooner or later one needs to get angry towards the koran and the hadith. These books are the heart & soul, the fuel of ISIL.
So therefore criticism of the koran and hadith will be treated as islamophobia, racism or an attack on moderate muslims when it's really an attack on paedophilia, forced marriage/sexual slavery and enemies of human rights.:mad:

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Originally Posted by shockNwave

To get angry towards ISIL means that sooner or later one needs to get angry towards the koran and the hadith. These books are the heart & soul, the fuel of ISIL.
So therefore criticism of the koran and hadith will be treated as islamophobia, racism or an attack on moderate muslims when it's really an attack on paedophilia, forced marriage/sexual slavery and enemies of human rights.:mad:

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Same could be said of the bible and it's relation to the atrocities committed during the Spanish Inquisition, especially when you read the Old Testament.

Can't lump everyone of a certain religious faith together. I've been given more generous Xmas gifts by the families of Muslim kids I've taught than the Christian ones. It's down to individuality and how one chooses to express their faith. Save hatred for the Terrorists - not your everyday Muslim on the street

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Originally Posted by griffin

For the issue of Iraq and how politicians treat war from the safety of their home or office, I cannot recommend the Fahrenheit 9/11 movie by Michael Moore enough.
It might be ten years old and focuses on a previous presidential administration, but it is a great reminder of what presidential self-interests can negatively affect the rest of the world, a bit like a dictatorship.
It detailed that Bush didn't want to invade Afghanistan to go after Osama... but eventually agreed to it on the condition that he was able to get America to invade Iraq after it.
It also noted that of the 500+ members of congress (the federal politicians) only one had a child serving in Iraq at the time he was filming the movie (2004)... suggesting that politicians wouldn't have been as eager to commit to Bush's war if people they were related to or even knew were the ones dying or being maimed.

Bush Senior did a half-assed job by leaving Hussein in charge of Iraq after liberating Kuwait, prompting Bush Junior to use his "personal army" (as commander in chief) to go in later, but also did a half-assed job by focussing on hunting down Hussein instead of regime change for the oppressed people of Iraq with a strategy of a stable transition.
(plus there was the added bonus of Bush using the taxpayer funded military to destroy much of Iraq's infrastructure and military, and then have construction, oil and private security companies that the Bush Family and their business friends owned, get exclusive government contracts that were forced on the new Iraqi regime)

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There's a podcast called "The Dollop" that a member here put me onto previously. They recently did an episode on the Iraq War and how the US screwed it up. All I can say is :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

I recommend that episode if nothing else. Although the Fenian Raids is a great one too :p