Is the packaging worth enough for it to effect the value of your purchase?

I doubt in this country the TF collector market is 1/5th. In the US maybe...

A dedicated toy store like TRU might get items for collectors and charge premiums for them, but Big W, Kmart, Target would only care about the mums and dads buying toys for kids and aren't going to be in the business of grading packaging. They do move damaged floor stock away eventually anyway to those clearance trolleys.

If you want premium packaging shop around and pay more. It's not that hard?

It amuses me to think of future Big W catalogue saying "Transformers DOTM Deluxes. C10 packaging $30 also available in C4 packaging for $10"

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

I doubt in this country the TF collector market is 1/5th. In the US maybe...

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Actually I'm prety sure that figure was globally. Besides not all collectors are going to be online (I suspect you're trying to use online community numbers as a guide here). In fact I'd be surprised if even the majority of them are membrs of online communities given Hasbro's figures a few years back and the online numbers you see in even major tf forums. Either way it's something which Hasbro and retailers should be interested in finding out if things are as dire as the retail sector keeps claiming.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

A dedicated toy store like TRU might get items for collectors and charge premiums for them, but Big W, Kmart, Target would only care about the mums and dads buying toys for kids

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Your entire point here is ironically moot in light of the retailer originally being talked about here.

Off the top of my head, with Target:

RiD Dreadwind
RiD Build Team
RiD Urban Camo Ruination
Masterpiece Ultra Magnus
Masterpiece Prime w/- Trailer
Energon Demolishor
Energon Cyclonus
Cybertron Jungle Planet Optimus Prime
Cybertron Jungle Planet Megatron

Can't remember if these were actual exclusives, but I suspect you can add the RiD Dinobots and Energon Dinobots to that list as well.

With K-Mart:
SE Transformers Classics

With Big-W (not TF related):
Force FX Lightsabers

That's just the exclusives and not factoring in that all these stores carried the Alternators line which was marketted primarily at collectors.

Clearly these stores are aware enough of collectors to market to them in their business model.

Therefore, they can't comlain about the "retail slump" when they're not exploring every single avenue and especially when the avenue in question is one they have marketted to in the past.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

and aren't going to be in the business of grading packaging.

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Which wasn't what was being said at all. There is a general range of wear which you'd typically expect from toys sitting on a shelf, ranging from bent cards to minor tears at the extreme end, like ripped peg hooks. At some point, set a line and stick to it in a policy where when it crosses that line, it's either removed from sale or discounted. It's not that hard.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

They do move damaged floor stock away eventually anyway to those clearance trolleys.

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Clearly, not everyone does though. Bear in mind that what started this thread was a toy with thoroughly trashed packaging and was almost a year old.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

If you want premium packaging shop around and pay more. It's not that hard?

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Or alternately, toy buyers, store managers and everyone in the chain of command between them could realise that they are selling toys which are marketed by the toy makers themselves to both kids (which includes mums and dads) and collectors and so they're automaticlly marketting to them anyway. It's not that hard.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

It amuses me to think of future Big W catalogue saying "Transformers DOTM Deluxes. C10 packaging $30 also available in C4 packaging for $10"

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Again, noone is talking about anything to this extent.

I would think the prime motivation for stocking exclusives is not aiming at the collector market, but rather to give the retailer a point of difference in their catalogues/stores from their competitors that otherwise have the exact same stock (and in Target's case their competitors have the exact same stock at cheaper prices).

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

I would think the prime motivation for stocking exclusives is not aiming at the collector market, but rather to give the retailer a point of difference in their catalogues/stores from their competitors that otherwise have the exact same stock (and in Target's case their competitors have the exact same stock at cheaper prices).

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And yet store exclusives are collector based to begin with as kids aren't going to worry about variants to as large a degree, or if they are in rare cases, aren't going to generally be financial enough to support that degree of completism.

Honestly, I have to say that the whole retailer apologist argument with the toy industry in general is as ridiculous as saying that car dealers shouldn't have to expect to cater to car enthusiasts in any way shape or form because the vast bulk of car buyers are going to be families seeking sedans. Sure some enthusiasts are going to go straight for luxury cars, but for example, Holden enthusiasts are still going to go for a Commodore, just as Ford enthusiasts are still going to go for a Falcon.

So in short, the stores are showing toy collectors contempt by not discounting every item that's in damaged packaging and we should be angry at them and ignore that they are helping collectors by bringing in US (and Japanese) store exclusives otherwise unavailable here?

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

So in short, the stores are showing toy collectors contempt by not discounting every item that's in damaged packaging and we should be angry at them and ignore that they are helping collectors by bringing in US (and Japanese) store exclusives otherwise unavailable here?

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Ok your uncalled for snarkiness aside (seriously, anyone would think you were the toy buyer or CEO for Westfarmers or Woolworths with how you're responding here), what I'm saying is that the global toy market has changed.

With eBay, the shift in the toy market, the shift in western culture where toy collecting is far more acceptable, and becming more and more prevalent amongst adults (even with a decline in it by kids as they move more and more over to video games at younger and younger ages with each passing year), the game has changed.

Gone are the days when retailers could bank on the kids being practically their main income for toys and ignorant parents being the main buyers.

These days collectors will buy elsewhere. Parents will buy on eBay. Online stores will charge US prices depending on their locations (which show up Australian RRPs as the total rip-offs they are).

What's more if a sealed toy is online on eBay or an online store and the packaging is shot to hell, they'll sell it for less.

This is what bricks and mortar retail are complaining about, because they refuse to face the fact that with Hasbro toys to quote just one example, they've been completely ripping off their customers- either by putting outrageous markups on figures or in the case of Hasbro Australia being the party ripping people off, failing to apply sufficient pressure on Hasbro Australia to lower their invoice costs back to what they should be (and yes, when you have enough buying power, it IS that simple).

You talk about store exclusives, but often most regular waves don't even hit here, or of late you get situations like deluxe movie Jazz in G1 colours going for $50 at TRU, when you can source them so much cheaper elsewhere. Furthermore, these days it's a global market and even store exclusives are available here thanks to online stores and sellers.

It's a similar deal with packaging. The collector's market does exist and so that needs to be factored into a business plan. There's a certain point where short of going case fresh, something can be displayed on card or in box and a point where a box looks like it's been a makeshift soccer ball. Once you cross that line, you reach a point where a the packaging's value does become an issue.

At that point the retailer is affected by how things work in a global market. Noone is going to charge on eBay for example (and these days there are many online toy stores on eBay for example), what they do for a toy with good condition packaging, what they would for a toy whose packaging has been destroyed. Whether the retailer decides to have a discount policy, or to remove it from sale as a deterrent against customers intentionally damaging packaging themselves, there needs to be some kind of policy there in place.

People could argue that that online toy stores, or specialty toy stores aren't a dept store's competition, but they'd be dead wrong. They're as much their competition as say, Bing Lee or Good Guys are when it comes to TVs or JB-Hifi are when it comes to DVDs and CDs.

This issue is just another component of the entire online vs retail argument that's surrounding the "retail slump" crisis going on atm.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

It amuses me to think of future Big W catalogue saying "Transformers DOTM Deluxes. C10 packaging $30 also available in C4 packaging for $10"

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That amuses me too.

this whole discussion is quite interesting, and looking back through the posts, there are clearly a lot of differiing opinions, but I'm getting the feeling that at the time of sale, packaging can effect a purchasiing decision almost as much as whats on the inside of the box, it appears to be a mixed up combo of emotion and logic.

clear as mud:D

How much would someone pay for this one:

http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/...8-07110002.jpg

You want stores to alter their prices per item based on the item condition like an online seller can? That sounds like a dedicated toy collector focused store not the 15 year old sales clerks at the local discount department store. Something like those high end collectable stores? Or maybe something like HobbyCo (from what I've seen of it)? Maybe it will happen someday. And you'll pay a premium for the service or the physical store will go out of business. But for now if you are trying to buy kids toys in a store that is visited by kids, the items will be treated like a soccer ball by those kids.

I dont like that they are overpriced, especially after two months shopping in the US and Hong Kong, so I shop online, arrange group orders, or wait for local sales. Overpriced TRU exclusives annoy me, underpriced Kmart exclusives delight me (even though the toys look ugly), but I don't care if the packaging is a damaged if the toy is okay and the price is alright.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

You want stores to alter their prices per item based on the item condition like an online seller can? That sounds like a dedicated toy collector focused store not the 15 year old sales clerks at the local discount department store. Something like those high end collectable stores? Or maybe something like HobbyCo (from what I've seen of it)? Maybe it will happen someday. And you'll pay a premium for the service or the physical store will go out of business. But for now if you are trying to buy kids toys in a store that is visited by kids, the items will be treated like a soccer ball by those kids.

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Not really. What I want is for retailers to sit down, recognise at what point you go from reasonable shelf wear to actual damage, and have some kind of a policy accordingly, be it discounting or removal from sale when someone brings it up to the counter. Some cases might be borderline sure, but in cases like the one I experienced, it's pretty black and white.

Furthermore, that sort of thing is always going to require managerial approval and will never be the job of a sales clerk.

However if these stores (as in bricks and mortar retailers) want to ignore the nature of the toy market as a whole, much like they've been accused of ignoring online shopping in general, then these same stores can't whinge about a slump in retail spending. If product A can be bought in several stores, then those stores are all each others' competition.

More to the point when a family is buying toys these days, it's becoming more the case that it's just as often for the parent as it is for the child.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

I dont like that they are overpriced, especially after two months shopping in the US and Hong Kong, so I shop online, arrange group orders, or wait for local sales. Overpriced TRU exclusives annoy me, underpriced Kmart exclusives delight me (even though the toys look ugly), but I don't care if the packaging is a damaged if the toy is okay and the price is alright.

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Depends on what you want the toy for. The moment you're considering keeping it MISB or MOSC, then the packaging is an issue, which again is the nature of the modern toy market.

Again, it all comes down to the failure of retailers to recognise the nature of the modern marketplace and adapt accordingly.

Based on what I've been told, stores here don't approach hasbro for exclusives. Hasbro has to 'beg' the stores to take on exclusives in this country, and its only when the brand is doing well (at its most profitable to stores) that stores take on exclusives.
US stores are the ones who solicit exclusives to get kids and collectors into their store over their rival's.
The stores here though, have no interest in accommodating or targeting collectors (TRU would be an exception - not for getting the product, but in the promoting of it by being the only store to approach us to advertise TF toys). Any other store that had the slightest interest in collectors in this country, would promote that intention and products to the collector communities (like here and other AUS fansites, and at the collector fairs).