I always call gestalts combiners because I have no idea how I'd pronounce gestalts or what that even means. And gestalts are also referred to as combiners in official media so I don't see the problem there.
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I always call gestalts combiners because I have no idea how I'd pronounce gestalts or what that even means. And gestalts are also referred to as combiners in official media so I don't see the problem there.
'Gestalt' has been used officially a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by theheretic
IIRC the term has its origins in..........psychology, I think? Something like that? (Vague memory seeing it used in uni)
Indeed, off the top of my head gestalt means that the whole is more(or different) than a sum of its parts referring to sensory inputs and thought processes of the brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat
It's a German word if that helps. Wiktionary link here, click on the 'gestalten' link at the bottom of the page for a close word with an audio clip.Quote:
Originally Posted by theheretic
Using Romajii since most people don't know the IPA characters, it's Geh-SHTALT. Hard g as in Grasshopper, s pronounced sh as in Sure. Caps used for word stress syllable, or the bit of the word you emphasise, eg. baNAna.
My mother will be thrilled to hear I do remember something from uni. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptormesh
The problem is that during G1 gestalts never had an official encompassing name in English (except for the Scramble City gestalts who were called "Special Teams") - but Combiners were used in an official capacity to describe two Transformers that combined to form a single alt mode, i.e. the Micromaster Combiners.Quote:
Originally Posted by theheretic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=551a_2lLGuU
Because of this, around 1994 fans started using the word "gestalt" (which as Raptormesh said, means something that is greater than the sum of its parts) to describe gestalts like Devastator, Defensor, Bruticus, Superion, Menasor, Computron, Lio Kaiser et al. thus allowing the term "Combiner" to be used to describe combiners (like say Sledge and Hammer) without confusing them with gestalts.
It wasn't until as late as 2001 that the term "Combiners" was officially used to define gestalts for Robots In Disguise - and then again during Revenge of the Fallen when we had "Combiner Class" Devastator (but at the same time we also had ice-cream truck Skids and Mudflap who are more like the old G1 definition of a Combiner!). So anyway, now the term "Combiner" has been officially used to describe both Transformers whose single alt mode is an amalgam of two Transformers AND what fans commonly refer to as "gestalts." :rolleyes:
Yeah, "gestalt" was officially used in 2007 and 2009. However fans have been using it since 1994, so it was originally a fan-term. :) There have been several fan terms that have gained official currency, such as Bumper, Darkside, Generation 1 etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat
Yup. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat
The term combiners is what fans referred to the "special team" concept ever since they were released in 1985. No kid our age at the time knew of the word "gestalt" and I still don't use it, as it sounds too cerebral for a kid's toyline. So we (my friends and I from way back in 1987, up to the present), would refer to any multi-member group that "combines" as "combiners".
The introduction of the four new teams in the UK Marvel story "Second Generation" would keep highlighting the word "Combine" when each team combined... making it the key concept/gimmick to refer to with multi-member combining teams.
Soundwave even describes them as "Combining Transformers" in Issue 64. Devastator was also referred to as "combined" in the US Marvel Comic.
Even the catalogues from 1986 and 1987 describe those mult-member groups as being able to "combine" or "join"... since "combiner" made more grammatical sense than "joiner" to us youngens of that time, I have never seen the term questioned or disputed on any fan-forum or ATT (the first online community) before this was brought up here.
Trying to convince the fandom that they are wrong in using the universally designated term by fans for the last 25 years is a big challenge.
Even the semi-official term "Special Teams" didn't take hold within the fandom, despite it being used a fair bit (briefly) by the UK Marvel team (Issue 54, 63, 64)... since it sounded lame, made them sound retarded, it was quickly dropped.
I never said anyone was wrong (ambiguity =/= incorrectness).Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
I said that the term 'combiner' - especially when used on its own without a contextual qualifier - is a very broad encompassing (and potentially ambiguous) term. The TFwiki page on "Combiner" illustrates various different kinds of Transformers that can fall under the umbrella term of 'Combiner.
As frustratingly confusing as it may be, if people refer to TF Prime RiD toys as just "RiD"... it's technically not wrong, but it can be jolly confusing.
That's different though, as referring to TFPrime as "RID" is like referring to DotM as "Mechtech". The only reason for using the "RID" acronym for TFPrime is within a topic that involves First Edition and non-FE figures. Once FE is enough past, there won't be a need to use that sub-title, as it will all be regular TFPrime toys. (and size-classes will be the only descriptive term required/needed from then on)
BBTS sent me an email today saying my TF Prime Ribs are in.... BUT I am seriously considering canceling and getting something else becausevi am so bummed out of the TFPrime FE non event. And I think I'll dump my money on some 3rd party items.