High horse maybe. Call me a Hypocrite if you want but I don't believe a tongue and cheek comment is the same as the serious comparison made in that article, Maybe I'm wrong but that's my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent
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High horse maybe. Call me a Hypocrite if you want but I don't believe a tongue and cheek comment is the same as the serious comparison made in that article, Maybe I'm wrong but that's my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent
I never took the article as literally comparing toy collecting with a heroin addiction -- I thought it was meant to be a hyperbole, again much like the "plastic crack" phrase that gets thrown about. I don't think anyone who says "plastic crack" is literally comparing toy collecting with a crack addiction, but merely a hyperbolic metaphor.
I know what you mean because with collecting at least you have something to show for it. With gambling and drugs you just blow your money away and you're left with nothing. But toy collecting can sort of be like gambling in a way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron
On the whole toys do not appreciate well - many toys are depreciating investments, and even most toys that end up appreciating do so incredibly slowly compared to more conventional forms of investment like buying stock market shares, blue chips or just whacking your money into a savings account and letting it mature with interest. People who buy toys and expect them to appreciate in value are in a way gambling. If I want a toy bad enough, I'll either buy it as soon as I find it in stores, or I'll pre-order it if it's not coming out here. This is because I don't want to risk the toy becoming harder to find and selling at inflated prices on the secondary market later on. Most of the time this works out for me, but sometimes it doesn't.
e.g.:
* I bought Beast Wars Metals X-9 Ravage MISB in 1999 for $20-something. The cheapest I could find on eBay atm is going for 170USD <FMW
* I bought reissue God Ginrai when it came out for $93. The toy shelfwarmed massively and even local Australian import stores were selling them for $20 each! <FML
* I pre-ordered eHobby Astrotrain and paid $35 for it MISB. Look at this! :eek: <FMW
* Paid $150 for Jetwing Optimus Prime when it came out in Big W. It shelfwarmed at Target for $99. <FML
...etc.
So my "buy it sooner at RRP" policy sometimes works and sometimes backfires on me, so it's a gamble. But I find that it usually works out well for me so I see it as gambling with odds tipped in my favour, which is why I continue to stick with this personal policy... but there's no solid guarantees. So as with gambling, you accept the fact that you might make the occasional loss and roll with the punches (just as long as you're "winnings" outnumber your "losings" :)). I don't buy toys with the intention to resell them, but I do sometimes go, "Ah nuts! I could've gotten that cheaper if I waited!" Thankfully it's not too often and most of the time I end up thinking, "Gee I'm glad I got that sooner rather than later!" :cool:
Umm, hmm.
There's some interesting posts. Some that have correct info, some that were glossed over , and some that just went awry.
We tend to think the worst when we think of a heroin addict. They certainly exist, in large numbers. I used to see it everyday.
Some of it is permanently etched into my mind. The work I did, the place I worked at, did a necessary thing for the community. That doesn't mean it was fun, or pretty. It wasn't.
I will just say, that there are heroin addicts who are probably a fair(er) comparison to toys, but I still find it largely frivolous, and disrespectful, to dead and living. There are some heroin addicts who lead normal lives: lawyers, bankers, even politicians. They are somehow able to continue their life pretty much undisrupted. They're the lucky few though.
Let's be very clear: differences to toy and heroin. Do you enjoy a new purchase, a new figure, filling in a gap, or getting a grail item? Of course. Heroin is different. It's more that these people have one great experience, and the rest is done trying to get that again, and they can't. Along the line they've become addicted. Some try it once and never again.
Everyone has an addiction. Everyone. It could be sex, money, love, anything. We all have one. And they're mostly okay, as they're within defined limits.
Do we trigger dopamine when we open/obtain a new figure? Well, I doubt we'll find any studies on that on, but if we do, it would be a different part of the brain firing. It's just too different to classify together with heroin, IMO.
There are things that happen if the drug isn't continually obtained and maintained in the body. Figures are irregular, even when buying heavily, some days you get a new wave and five older figs in the mail, other days, nothing. Is the effect of that similar to a heroin addict not receiving a hit? No, there's no way it is.
It's not a physical addiction like heroin.
I also have no problem with the term 'plastic crack'. I don't believe anyone really intends it as a serious term. If they did, I'd march them into the Valley myself.
I know things that I shouldn't have known in my early 20's. None of them have come from toys, though.
To say that toy collecting is like gambling is another fallacy, just as bad as the heroin comparison. It's missing the physical reactions that are triggered, the real facts, to make a shallow comparison 'work'. Ask a gambling addict and they'll wonder what toy collectors get out of it, and what a waste of money that is. It's perspective. It's maturity. It's comprehension.
I wouldn't relate toy collecting so much to gambling as to a calculated risk because as you said, with gambling if you blow your money you will never get it back.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Of course, toy collecting as an investment applies more to MISB collectors. If collecting specifically for that purpose, collectors tend to buy the toys that have the highest chance of appreciating, such as Limited Editions and exclusives, or that are highly sought after (such as MPs). Otherwise, it can be a hit or miss in regards to the value of a toy after it's been opened, say 30 years from now. It's true that toys in general appreciate slowly, if at all, which is where it helps to collect and keep them mint and sealed, and not resell them too soon after they've been purchased. And even if they do start to depreciate, it may very well be only for a certain number of decades before they begin to appreciate as people start to realise that there's not many of them left in the world any more and they become increasingly hard to find. But this requires a lot of time and patience and of course there are other, quicker ways to make money, but no method is completely free of a certain amount of risk.
For years when people who can't relate to my obsession asked me about collecting Transformers I have fallen back on the line...
"Well, it was either Transformers or heroin. I figured with Transformers I don't need to sell my furniture to pay for it, and I don't have to do that whole messy needle thing"
... which has usually illicted a laugh or at least a rye smile. I did like the line in the article about "It's not the having, it's the getting" which I can totally relate to as I spend a fortune on Transformers, then a couple of weeks later I hardly touch them and am hunting my next TF fix. As for his other points, I don't think it's made me a dislikeable person (unless they touch my toys - then beware! See thread about 'Have you had people mess with your TF's and break them?!') and I truly love my toys, whereas this person does not even seem to like them.
I think his analogy works on a few levels, but definetly not all.
It is actually easy to make an educated guess in which toys will appreciate in value and which will not based on fan enthusiasm and demand. Naturally it is not a sure thing but if you are savvy enough and follow fan community trends you are likely to have a good ratio when it comes to positive appreciating toys.
For example, it is easy to judge that movie and several mainstream toys won't appreciate well. However toys like Classics, specially the Henkei/United releases tend to fare a lot better depending on the characters.
Some general release toys for the first movie have actually appreciated significantly over the last 5 years, particularly Voyager Blackout and Leader Brawl. Toys for ROTF and DOTM... not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
I really can't see many modern toys appreciating in value too much as there are just so many misb samples being stored and kept nicely in peoples collection as they will always be ones for sale. I think the biggest growth would be in any vintage stuff that is likely to not be reissued - action masters / pretenders or g2 stuff.
As long as the franchise stays popular here shouldn't be significant depreciation either.
All my opinion of course :-)
A hand full (or less) will appreciate but the larger mass of them won't. It is just the way it is for most recent mainstream lines unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5FDP
Personally, I believe that modern lines do not have enduring following because people tend to forget about them almost as soon as they are over.Quote:
Originally Posted by theshape
Maybe I read into your comment too much that 'movie toys won't appreciate well' thinking you were referring to the entire line :confused: I was just pointing out that some already have :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
Today's toys will be the vintage toys of tomorrow. Well, maybe not tomorrow, but in 30 years time they will be :p There will always be someone looking to reacquire the toys that they had as a kid so the demand will be there. In the grand scheme of things, the movies were, for better or worse, huge and big money spinners for Hasbro. We already know that there were people like us 30 years ago collecting Transformers for the mere purpose of leaving them in the box, hence so many MISB samples being sold on eBay. Perhaps it wasn't as common as it is now (or as popular as we know it to be thanks to the internet and fan fourms), but there will always be a demand for vintage toys. But yeah, market saturation will also determine their worth because rare items will always appreciate more (sorry to anyone that stocked-up on movie Bumblebees for their retirement fund :D).Quote:
Originally Posted by theshape