Don’t get her hopes upQuote:
Originally Posted by Sinnertwin
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Don’t get her hopes upQuote:
Originally Posted by Sinnertwin
If its worked for you...Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent
https://i.imgur.com/AuUPN2w.jpg
I'll post this link again in case anyone missed it. The TFwiki page on G1 Cyclonus in the G1 cartoon continuity dedicates six paragraphs into the problems with Cyclonus' former identity. You fine folks know how to follow a hotlink so I'm not going to post my own spiel which would be nothing more than just rewording what's already stated on that wiki page (you can read it for yourselves). :)
The "because Bombshell's in front" isn't a great argument because directions in space is completely relative.
And how do you know it was Bombshell and not Salvo or any of his other clones? :confused:
Anyway, if you want to believe it's Bombshell or Salvo (etc.) then go right ahead.
More Personal Opinion That's Not Canonical Fact:
Another reason why I prefer the Skywarp explanation is because Cyclonus' personality is more like Skywarp's and very different from Bombshell's. In the G1 cartoon Skywarp was portrayed as being a loyal soldier to Megatron. Starscream was the traitor and Thundercracker was somewhat indifferent, but Skywarp was the loyalist. We can see this in The Ultimate Doom where Skywarp and Starscream fight in the lift over the "brilliance" of Megatron's plan. G1 cartoon Cyclonus is also fiercely loyal to Galvatron. This is quite different from Bombshell who, like the other Insecticons in the cartoon, is a pure opportunist. He's only ever loyal to Megatron so long as it suits his purposes. So to me Cyclonus being the evolution of Skywarp makes sense to me as much as Galvatron is the evolution of Megatron. They share personality traits. Again, I recognise that this is purely my own opinion and not a decisive canonical fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Here's the link to the storyboard from which the animators worked off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinnertwin
But not from a movie making/audience point of view. You're not going to introduce a new character by having them standing in the background. Our eyes are drawn to the objects at the front of the screen making them a point of attention.Quote:
The "because Bombshell's in front" isn't a great argument because directions in space is completely relative.
Quote:
And how do you know it was Bombshell and not Salvo or any of his other clones? :confused:
https://i.imgur.com/u7If5KB.jpg
That's still a matter of authorial intent vs final outcome. Even then this becomes fuzzy as it contradicts earlier versions of the script. And even in the final product we know that Bombshell appears in later scenes in the movie and he appears in Season 3. Skywarp does not. But then again, the clone thing...
I'm NOT saying that it's definitively one or the other. This is truly a pointless discussion. Just take your pick and go with it. If you want to believe that Cyclonus used to be Bombshell then more power to you. If you want to believe that he used to be Salvo, then go for it. And if you want to believe that he used to be Skywarp, then go nuts with that too.
Well unlike many of you I've decided to dig deep on the net, make a few phone calls etc. And it turns out we are all wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
The robot that gets turned into Cyclonus is in fact Hound.
What the original script called for:
When Prime, Sunstreaker and Hound land at Autobot city, Prime orders Sunstreaker to reinforce the left flank and orders Hound to use his holographic abilities to spy out what the Decepticons next move in battle would be. Instead of camoflauging himself as a rock or he camoflauges himself as a Decepticon.
(Here is where the confusion lays as it lists in the notes as 'either Insecticon or Jet' as they were the character models there could be multiples of at any one time).
Hound gets caught up in the evacuation in Astrotrain and ends up stuck there in his disguise. He ends up getting thrown out the airlock, still holographically camouflaged as either as a Seeker (Jet) or Insecticon.
When the formatting takes place, as the change animation happens you briefly see Hound's face appear between his holographic disguise disappearing and his new form emerging.
Unfortunately this storyline was cut from the final draft of the script, but you see the hangovers from it, such as there being two Cyclonus' (as they hadn't decided yet whether Hound would be an Insecticon or a Seeker when disguised) and why Cyclonus was written as the most honourable Decepticon in season 3, due to the fact he had been reformatted from an Autobot rather than a Decepticon.
There ya go, answered :)
Well many of us have found it quite invigorating and enlightening :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Seriously give it up. It is Bombshell. So much wasted time on a pointless discussion. Storyboard says Bombshell. We see Bombshell turn into Cyclonus. The seeker at the back (clearly Skywarp) was a useless seeker anyway so he can go on his way to oblivion. Bombshell = Cyclonus. Debate over.
Id say the authorial intent is pretty clear:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
https://i.imgur.com/ZXpkGZV.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/R3YgM8w.jpg
Skywarp headcanon and theories in this case hold as much water as flat earthers and Area 51 nut jobs.
*sigh* That was never in dispute.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent
LOL, I can't tell if you're delirious or just plain lying. Takes some of the credence out of pretty much every other statement you've ever made... just quietly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent
I've never seen so many self righteous, virtue signalling, headless muppets running around in circles before.
Points to Trevor for an interesting head cannon. I don't see what the point of bringing up things like earlier versions of a script or toy catalogues or even future episodes of the TV show has to do with the content of the film?
Star Wars movie spoiler
Is there a discussion as to the identity of the old smuggler guy that gets skewered by Kylo Ren in the Star Wars movies? no, I didn't think so, is there a version of the script where it's someone else? maybe but it's irrelevant because it's Han Solo that cops it in the film.
Back to Transformers.
Is it bombshell? it looks like bombshell, is sound like bombshell and it tastes like bombshell, so it's probably bombshell, it even quacks like bombshell. And yes it's Cyclonus, not his Armada. Sure there's no up, down left or right in space, but there is still perspective and relative orientation. From the perspective of the Camera/Audience, it's Bombshell who is the primary focus of the shot, being introduced as Cyclonus.
So, what about all the future appearances of 'bombshell' who's to say they weren't originally a clone and bombshell transferred his consciousness before being ousted from Astrotrain, or maybe the clone was a 'premium' clone and just took on his position as the new bombshell once the original was out of the picture.
This nonsense about the characters fitting better the other way around. Your assuming that Unicron allowed some semblance of the original characters personality to remain. Perhaps that was only done for Megatron/Galvatron.
What of the suffering irony for Skywarp to now be forced to be subservient to a lowly Insecticon for the remainder of his existence, perhaps Unicron gained some sick enjoyment out of this suffering he caused.
Much the same that it was always a brutal irony that Megatron relied on his least trusted and liked Lieutenant to use him in his alt mode.
There is also no proving that Cyclonus' Armarda wasn't many characters; all clones of him, just that they were never shown on the screen again. Much the same if there was a jettison of dead weight from Astrotrain, there would have been many more near dead decepticons relieved of duty than those actually shown. Not everything in a movie has to happen on screen, to expect so is to expect to be pandered to at every turn (here's a participation ribbon), it can often be loosely implied with primary characters being shown to represent the many offscreen characters.
Bombshell became Cyclonus and Skywarp amongst others became his Armarda of nameless troops, never to be given a speaking role again.
good chat.