Cyberverse - are the toys getting too simple or are people getting dumber?

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Originally Posted by Magnus

I personally don't care much for the Cyberverse line, but I can't help but wonder if collectors are 'missing the point' of it. It seems like collectors tend to fall into the trap of thinking Hasbro should be catering specifically to them, so when something comes along that is clearly intended for a younger audience, they deride it.

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I agree that some of the toys had gotten very complex. DOTM Prime was a case in point. But I'm not sure happy-meal level deluxes are the right reaction. There's no cleverness in a $35 toy that matches the complexity of a $2 fast food trinket.

I'm an adult collector but I *remember* as a kid being impressed with the cleverness of G1 toys; Jazz, Dirge; Wheeljack.

I also remember being underwhelmed by the Sparkabots with their laughable transformations, poor robots modes and a gimmick that, frankly, didn't make up for such basic engineering.

Hasbro can't make excuses for poor figures designs, no matter what era.

I imagine they give their Cyberverse designers bullet point directives, something like:

- 3 hinges max
- 2 rotation joints max
- 3 colours plastic max
- 3 shades paint max

- free coffee and donut for each reduction of the above

There are toys that are simple yet elegant in design. Take the flipchangers for example. Simple yet really clever one-step changers. But the robot modes aren't compromised as a result. Every Flipchanger has no fewer than 9 points of articulation, including some on ball and socket joints. Despite being extremely easy to transform toys they are still brilliant action figures. The original Terrorsaur remains my favourite BW Transformer. :)

And yeah, complex transforming toys can suck too if they're not done well. e.g. Big Convoy, BT Grimjack, MP5 etc.

It's not so much an issue of "simple vs complex," but rather an issue of quality vs crap.
Flipchangers = quality simple Transformers
Cyberverse = rubbish simple Transformers
MP39 Sunstreaker = quality complex Transformer
BT Grimlock = rubbish complex Transformer

I don't think complexity is a strong factor in measuring a transformer's quality. Sure the level of complexity needs to be appropriate for the age demographic being catered for, but just because a transformer is complex or simple doesn't necessarily mean it's good or bad.

There's a tonne of over-complicated transformers that suck spheres, e.g. Universe 2.0 Galvatron and TFP Knock Out (Deluxe class). But there's some transformers that are complex but satisfying like TR Triggerhappy and Kickback. On the flip side, there's heaps of really good transformers that are simple. I'm a big fan of the Legion class, mainly because they're quick to transform, they're portable, and cheap. In fact the Legion G2 Megatron is an all-time favourite of mine (I literally wish I bought 5 when Target was still stocking it). There's many types of Legion figures I'd recommend for a younger kid (if not a one-step-changer or a RescueBot).

I think the main problem with Cyberverse, as many have called out on this thread, is that these toys aren't worth the money they're charging. If Hasbro are going to simplify the transformation, reduce the parts count, and use less plastic; then the price needs to reflect that. The Warrior Class Optimus Prime - if there wasn't a better toy available, I'd probably buy it for a 5-year old who wanted an Optimus Prime, but for $35; it's a rip-off in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by FatalityPitt

The Warrior Class Optimus Prime - if there wasn't a better toy available, I'd probably buy it for a 5-year old who wanted an Optimus Prime, but for $35; it's a rip-off in my opinion.

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Aside from the fact that these toys for ages 6+, I think you've also highlighted another problem with Cyberverse. Even if the toys were cheaper, they'd only be worth considering if there was nothing better around. But there is. And not just in terms of Transformers, but in terms of toys in general. Hypothetically speaking, if there were no better Transformers around then people would be more likely to --- wait for it --- stop collecting Transformers (blasphemy, I know). Bad toys might be more likely to push people away from the brand especially when there's nothing better around.
e.g. the story of Action Masters. Apparently some people were devastated to the point that they actually stopped buying Transformers after Action Masters came to dominate the G1 toy line in the early 90s.

But so long as more lucrative choices exist for consumers then Cyberverse is unlikely to thrive. And a good toyline is one that sells well despite the existence of strong competition.
e.g. Beast Wars etc.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Aside from the fact that these toys for ages 6+, I think you've also highlighted another problem with Cyberverse. Even if the toys were cheaper, they'd only be worth considering if there was nothing better around. But there is. And not just in terms of Transformers, but in terms of toys in general. Hypothetically speaking, if there were no better Transformers around then people would be more likely to --- wait for it --- stop collecting Transformers (blasphemy, I know). Bad toys might be more likely to push people away from the brand especially when there's nothing better around.
e.g. the story of Action Masters. Apparently some people were devastated to the point that they actually stopped buying Transformers after Action Masters came to dominate the G1 toy line in the early 90s.

But so long as more lucrative choices exist for consumers then Cyberverse is unlikely to thrive. And a good toyline is one that sells well despite the existence of strong competition.
e.g. Beast Wars etc.

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I think one of the amazing things about Beast Wars was that it was such a fresh and innovative idea that was totally unexpected at the time, and they were eager to make good toys.

Another thing with Cyberverse, and it might just be me, but I got this feeling that I couldn't put my finger on until now - it all seems contrived. When I look at these toys, I feel like Hasbro came up with the ideas and designs by plugging variables into a formula. Their choices were made by the numbers. Even when looking at the toys IRL, I can't sense much enthusiasm from the designer/engineer. I think when we buy or consume something, like a toy or a meal at the restaurant, it'd be nice to know that the person who made it was enthusiastic about what he or she was making.

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Originally Posted by FatalityPitt

I think one of the amazing things about Beast Wars was that it was such a fresh and innovative idea that was totally unexpected at the time, and they were eager to make good toys.

Another thing with Cyberverse, and it might just be me, but I got this feeling that I couldn't put my finger on until now - it all seems contrived. When I look at these toys, I feel like Hasbro came up with the ideas and designs by plugging variables into a formula. Their choices were made by the numbers. Even when looking at the toys IRL, I can't sense much enthusiasm from the designer/engineer. I think when we buy or consume something, like a toy or a meal at the restaurant, it'd be nice to know that the person who made it was enthusiastic about what he or she was making.

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This reminds me of why MTV has such a bad reputation among music connoisseurs. Because those programming the music just want to make a buck and have no passion for the music as long as greed is fulfilled thus you see/hear all these talentless mime artists and the existence of shareholder music (not to be confused with actual music).:mad:
Beautiful on the surface but not very bright beneath just like a Transformer that looks impressive but has an overly simple transformation. Paying for one of these toys is like paying to see one of those aforementioned mime artists.:mad:

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Originally Posted by shockNwave

This reminds me of why MTV has such a bad reputation among music connoisseurs. Because those programming the music just want to make a buck and have no passion for the music as long as greed is fulfilled thus you see/hear all these talentless mime artists and the existence of shareholder music (not to be confused with actual music).:mad:
Beautiful on the surface but not very bright beneath just like a Transformer that looks impressive but has an overly simple transformation. Paying for one of these toys is like paying to see one of those aforementioned mime artists.:mad:

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It's sadly quite a common trend in a lot of industries :(

A lot of entertainment companies are run by accountants and salespeople who likely aren't fans of their own company's products.

As Mark Hamill said; "..it doesn't matter if it's good as long as it makes money."

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Originally Posted by shockNwave

Beautiful on the surface but not very bright beneath just like a Transformer that looks impressive but has an overly simple transformation. Paying for one of these toys is like paying to see one of those aforementioned mime artists.:mad:

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Cyberverse toys don't even look good. :(

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Cyberverse toys don't even look good. :(

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Sorry:o.Looks like I got carried away. So on that note Cyberverse is worse than the mime artist music industry and that's saying a lot.