UCM Poll: Should TF Prime Arms Microns count?

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IMPORTANT NOTICE!

This thread poll is now null and void. Please use this poll instead. Apologies for any inconvenience.
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As most of you know, yesterday I got Transformers Prime War Breakdown and Skywarp who come with Zamu and Balo -- two Microns that you have to construct.

Now, considering that the UCM does not count Targetmaster partners, I feel that these Arms Microns also shouldn't count. The Arms Microns themselves don't even feel like proper Transformers action figures, to me they're like just these transformable accessories that you have to assemble yourself. I didn't even want to count PCC Mini-Cons (but alas, the majority voted for them to count).

So let's put this to the vote -- should we be counting Transformers Prime Arms Microns separately or not? Be aware that this vote ONLY affects Transformers Prime Arms Microns - the ones that you have to assemble yourself. Previous existing Arms Microns (e.g. Misfire, Fracas etc.) and Mini-Cons will not be affected by the results of this poll (they will all continue to count). We're only talking about these "model kit" Arms Microns.

Thank you for your participation. :)

I count them as seperate only because I count the PCC minicons as seperate and it's the same basic theory

I see this as being a tad tricky to define Gok... I feel that they shouldn't count because they are like a Targetmaster add on, buuut you can buy them separately and so in that case they should count.

So in my opinion, ones that come with a Transformer Pal woudn't count, but ones bought by themselves count. Double standards anyone? :p But then I did manage to pick up Bulkhead's buddy as well. Should he count? Aaargh! So keeping that in mind, I would have to say they count, just to keep things as standard.

Ummm aren't these considered as minicons? So they should count as separate, just like the minicon partners in Armada... only thing is these are "for assembly" rather than fully assembled unlike the ordinary minicons of previous release. I vote YES.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy

I see this as being a tad tricky to define Gok... I feel that they shouldn't count because they are like a Targetmaster add on, buuut you can buy them separately and so in that case they should count.

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Some G1 Headmaster and Godmaster partners were sold individually, yet they don't count.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Some G1 Headmaster and Godmaster partners were sold individually, yet they don't count.

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So if someone only owned Kirk, Loafer, Shuffler and the rest of the individually sold headmasters their collection count would be zero?

I don't see why this was something new to discuss... whatever was decided/voted for Armada/Micron Legend, applies here.
Both series had sets with a large robot partnered with a Micron, as well as sets with just Microns.

If Sparkplug and Superpants Optimus were counted as "one" or "two", then the same applies with the JP Arms Micron packaged partnerings. (I don't follow the UMC, so don't know the result of the Armada component)

If a counting method doesn't have uniformity, you get contradictions and confusion... and a lot of "rules". (which was why I created that simple counting method I mentioned in the other topic, which has just 4 "rules" compared to 20+ of the UMC)

Correct.

Mind you, the survey rounds things up to the nearest 100 anyway, and the smallest category in the primary poll is "0-100", so it wouldn't affect the result. The number of those Headmaster/Godmaster Warriors is pretty small. Unless someone has like 100+ doubles of Kirks, Loafers, Shufflers... good luck with that. :p

Atm I only have 2 TFP Arms Microns... I intend on collecting Hasbro TFP figures where possible, so no matter how this poll goes I don't envisage the result really impacting on my personal collection count much. I'm currently on 1636 not including Zamu and Balo - so including them would pump my count up to 1638. Not a huge diff. But for someone who is say completing the entire set of TFP Arms Microns toys, it might make more of a difference... depends on how much more of these things TakTOM release in the future I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Geigerrock-2

So if someone only owned Kirk, Loafer, Shuffler and the rest of the individually sold headmasters their collection count would be zero?

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That's the point of needing a more consistent counting method - you count toys as they can be bought & sold... in a "complete" condition. Shuffler is a complete toy, so should count... while Hardhead needs Duros to be "complete", so the pair only counts as one.
With each item, just ask yourself - would this be classed as complete if I was going to buy it on ebay? If a figure isn't required to be paired up with another to complete it, it counts as a separate figure. (but that's just my counting method - because when you have a couple thousand toys, you need an easy counting method)

If you want to count your Headmaster & Godmaster warriors individually, then do it. Even for the purposes of the UCM poll it wouldn't have affected results because their numbers or so small that the variation would have been negligible since the primary poll rounded everything up to the nearest hundred. And for people with over 1000 Transformers, the secondary poll for that rounds everything to the nearest 500 (e.g. 1000, 1500, 2000 etc.) - so the counting of a few extra heads (or engines :p) really won't affect those results anyway. And so far the number of Arms Microns that have been released is probably negligible too.

The reason why I made this poll is because:
1) The UCM currently counts Mini-Cons, but...
2) The UCM does NOT count model kits.

And the TFP Arms Microns are Mini-Cons, but they're also a model kit! So are they Mini-Cons or are they models? They're really both, but for the sake of consistent counting under the UCM I'd like to know that the majority consensus is --- if the most of us consider them to the same as any other Mini-Con/Micron, then so be it. The results of this poll will NOT lead to a new Article in the UCM -- but merely an amendment to the Article on Mini Cons & model kits where it will either state that TFP Arms Microns are included or not included. I try to avoid adding more articles to the UCM where possible, I much prefer amending existing articles and not make the UCM any larger than it already is.

I Dont really see them as model kits, more we asemble the toy ourselves which cuts out the middle man of someone sitting in a factory assembling before we get them. and what about the TF Prime Arms Micron Capsule toys that are already assembled?

Okay, forget about this poll. I've made another one here -- please vote there. The options are:
* All Arms Microns, Headmaster Warriors, Godmaster Warriors and PCC MiniCons should count individually
* Only those that are sold individually should count separately but not those that are partners
* All the Arms Microns should count, but do not retcon this ruling for HM/GM Warriors & PCC Mini-Cons
* None of them should count individually

I've set this up as an external poll so I don't need to amend the poll on different boards and stuff... gah. Also, how do I close this poll? (I clicked on thread tools but couldn't see an option)

So far 86% of respondents have voted for "All sold individually should count separately but not those that are partners" -- but it's recently occurred to me that I should've worded this poll better... we cannot retroactively change the counting rules for Unicron Trilogy Mini-Cons. This is because there are so many of them, it would render future results incomparable with past results.

I'm willing to retroactively change the ruling for partners where numbers are small enough that it wouldn't affect comparable data (since counts are rounded to the nearest 100 in the primary poll). I'm curious to see what the general consensus is on what can/can't be retconned in terms of maintaining data integrity. Here are my thoughts/questions -- if anyone has any comment to make, please say so now (or forever hold your peace ;)).

+ Takara G1 Master Warriors and Masterforce Warriors can count. There's only 9 of them in total, and they're hideously rare (even in Japan).

+ Power Core Combiners can be discounted. There are only 13 of them which were packaged with the droneless Power Core Combiner Commanders (e.g. Huffer, Searchlight, Smoulder etc.). This number should be small enough that it wouldn't have an effect on data.

So to clarify -- the way the majority are voting atm, it looks like most people are in favour of individually sold partners counting, but not for those packaged with a larger Transformer (Autobot/Decepticon). But we cannot retro-actively apply this to Armadaverse Mini-Cons because the number of them would be significant enough to render data incomparable.

Thank you.