New Vintage G1 Seeker KO?

Doing an ebay trawl yesterday picked up this:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/170963875...9#ht_500wt_922

On the face of it, a great deal even if it is an auction. I sent the link through to another OTCA member who got in touch with the dealer and also did a bit of research on the high end TF website. He then gave me a call and we did a bit of analysing the photos, comparing the item against what specimins that we know are genuine G1. The following were some of our observations:

- If it's a genuine 1984 seeker, why does it have a rubsign?
- the two left corners Of the cellophane window on his sample are rounded. Our Genuine G1 boxes have sharp right angle corners.
- the factory serial number printed at Starscream's feet on the box art has been pretty obviously photoshopped in, retaining the purple rectangle around the number. On our genuine G1 the number is simply printed on the gridded background.
- Genuine G1 Starscream is for ages 5 and up. You need to be at aged 7 and up for this Starscream.
- the background purple seems too bright closer to the bottom of the box. Similar symptom on the KO Devastator giftpack box.
- the sunburst behind Starscream is too bright, again, same as Devy KO.
- On the card flap, at the top right of the 's' in 'formers' there is an 'r' in a circle. My genuine G1 starscream has a 'TM' (this may be different)

Now the back of the box:
- At the very top, the front of the card flap and the back of the box has been glued unevenly.
- The print under the tech specs ends too early, leaving out the made in Japan, etc.

On this last point, we were thinking possibly genuine G1 Chinese release. But the Chinese releases while leaving off the made in Japan, included a sticker on the front of the box with the robot's name in Chinese characters.

As far as I know, the Seekers have not been subject to recent pirate releases (they were back in the day - I have a KO Kingdam F-15 that's pushing 30 years old now!). I also don't like the idea of casting aspertions against an ebay seller without reason. But he's also selling Ramjet and Cyclonus, both as genuine G1s, both with similar inconsistencies.

Thoughts or more info appreciated.

Edit:Having done a bit of a Google search on images I've found a few AFA graded samples that have the serial number on the front of the box looking like it was printed on a purple background rectangular sticker and applied, but with none of the other inconsistencies I've listed.

I think it still leaves the question hanging - are these KO or not?

Its not a knockoff. I have them. Original 1984 release... Well no I dont think so. TRU were selling them as in Starscream Ramjet and Cyclonus back in the early 90s. Also got a Soundwave like this too. From what I have seen back in the day we never had Chinese stickers on our boxes.

I just thought at the time that they did not bother making new classics boxes for them. Or they found some old stock. What told me they were not old stock was they do not have any catalog packed with them.

That's correct - we got in some of the Gen1 toys that were being produced for China in the early 90s, just before Hasbro UK decided to do reissues in gold boxes (perhaps they saw how well they were selling in Asia and here). They didn't have any Chinese stickers on the boxes of the stock that came here though.
Toys I remember (and bought) included Soundwave, Blaster, Starscream, Ramjet, Cyclonus, Optimus, some minibots and some combiners.
I just can't remember what paperwork was included inside... because I couldn't imagine that they reprinted the catalogues and mail-order forms. Which would be a good indicator between 80s version and Chinese 90s version.

They are legit, but not "original 1984" though (as the ebay auction claims, if it is a 1990s Chinese reissue).

However, since Starscream was released for three years (1984-1986), I'd imagine that it did end up getting released with a rubsign. The best tell though would probably be what paperwork is inside.

My first screamer was a 1985 one with a 85 catalogue. It had I rub sign. Did not know blaster got released again. :-)

Thanks for posting this up UM..... I was gonna do it last night but something unexpected came up!

Interesting to hear though that it's not a knock off.... We searched for ages trying to find more info on Chinese rereleased toys, and came to the conclusion it wasnt legit. kinda relieved I didn't call the seller out.

Thanks for the info Griff and Vert

:)

Easiest way to tell when MIB is the trademark on the back of the box....

Less than 30 mins to go on this one and no bids yet. Anyone planning on bidding on it?

Was going to bid on it but my darling wife talked me out of it.

" it's not an 84 like your after, why buy someting that doesn't match the others " we're her exact words.... She's right too, all my other misb seekers are 84/85

:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janda the red

Was going to bid on it but my darling wife talked me out of it.

" it's not an 84 like your after, why buy someting that doesn't match the others " we're her exact words.... She's right too, all my other misb seekers are 84/85

:)

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Yep, good advice. I was unsure myself, and at that price I would rather put the money towards a 1984 version... BUT since I am a completist and want to own virtually every Starscream related toy and artefact that has ever been created (:D), I do want one of these as well. I just have to prioritise my many wants in a sensible way...

It wasn't sold this time so... if it gets relisted and no one starts a bidding war on it I will be procrastinating over it all over again. :p

I wonder what it RRPed for when it was released, does anyone know?

There was an MIB of this 90's Australian released Starscream on e-bay going back a few months, the seller was deadset honest and in the description said it was a 90's reissue. It finished at an odd time so I missed out but it went for under $40. Spewing I missed it because I wanted to see if the Takara stampings had been blanked out which all Gold Box re-issues have. I suspect it would have been as I have come across loose Ramjet's and Starscreams with this stamping alteration.

Also to add to this verification of it being 90's reissue I bought one of these Starscreams for my brother back in the day, rub sticker and all. Picked it for about $15 I think :) From Target Country, can't remember what paperwork it had though.

Not all Chinese reissues had the big Chinese writing sticker plastered over the Transformers heading, some just had the small clear price tag looking sticker on them with two characters, what has happened lately with these are people are heating them off the card/box leaving no trace and trying to pass them off as original G1.

Just a couple of scans from my archives on topic.

Toyworld catalogue showing the G1 Soundwave re-release alongside other gold-boxed classics and the European release of the Constructions

http://25.media.tumblr.com/c6e606a58...guy1o1_500.jpg

There's additional text on the front of Soundwave's box, but too small to be legible here.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/2806f8535...guy1o1_400.jpg

The re-release of Starscream and Cyclonus (and Ramjet as I also recall) were still being advertised in World 4 Kids catalogues by the time G2 toys were on the shelf. No box photo though unfortunately.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/09c684c77...guy1o1_500.jpg

Ohhh... that was so... cheap. :eek:

I think a fair price for this MISB G1 Starscream re-release should be no more than about $100 max. Anyways, I've contacted the seller about it, it'll be interesting to see what he says...

Edit: He wants to know what my price would be. If anyone has any advice I'd be glad to hear it: should I offer him $100? Or a different amount?

Depends how much you want it, his expextation was $300 thinking it was an 80's release. So he may get spooked out at $100 purely due to the huge difference regardles of vintage.
I wouldn't go any higher than $120 with postage. At least that higher number will soften the blow even with postage. Psych 101 :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

Just a couple of scans from my archives on topic.

Toyworld catalogue showing the G1 Soundwave re-release alongside other gold-boxed classics and the European release of the Constructions

http://25.media.tumblr.com/c6e606a58...guy1o1_500.jpg

**Snip**

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Wow awesome scans paulbot!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jetfire in the sky

Depends how much you want it, his expextation was $300 thinking it was an 80's release. So he may get spooked out at $100 purely due to the huge difference regardles of vintage.
I wouldn't go any higher than $120 with postage. At least that higher number will soften the blow even with postage. Psych 101 :p

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Thanks for your reply, I feel better about it now knowing that someone else agrees. Well, I've given him my offer, so it's up to him now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

Just a couple of scans from my archives on topic.

Toyworld catalogue showing the G1 Soundwave re-release alongside other gold-boxed classics and the European release of the Constructions

http://25.media.tumblr.com/c6e606a58...guy1o1_500.jpg

There's additional text on the front of Soundwave's box, but too small to be legible here.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/2806f8535...guy1o1_400.jpg

The re-release of Starscream and Cyclonus (and Ramjet as I also recall) were still being advertised in World 4 Kids catalogues by the time G2 toys were on the shelf. No box photo though unfortunately.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/09c684c77...guy1o1_500.jpg

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This is great, it clearly shows the rounded edges of the cardboard around the window. Great reference for anyone after boxed items.

@Paulbot - Man those scans are a great! What a piece of pop culture history. I remember a Kmart catalogue photo that came out before the Christmas of 1985 that had most of the '84 and '85 line up that were relesed in Oz, all in one big photo. I kept it for years but unfortunately I can't find it now :(

@Megatron - Good luck, hopefully he accepts your offer.

Thanks, but... he declined my offer. He wishes me luck finding a product that matches his.

Oh, I shall.

Haha.

Keep an eye out for it if he re-lists it. If he does so with correct description I would be surprised if it goes for over the price you offered.

Yeah, provided he doesn't have a starting bid of something like $250.

Regardless, I'll keep an eye on it and see if he relists it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megatron

Yeah, provided he doesn't have a starting bid of something like $250.

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Agreed :) .99c start would be be perfect