Caution when dealing with 2nd Childhood Toys and Collectables

I'm posting this both against my better judgement in light of the last time I gave people here a heads up and in disbelief that I'd ever have to make such a thread about this particular seller- who prior to this, I had every reason to suspect was nothing but a stand up guy who prided himself on customer service. To be clear, I don't need advice here and no this isn't a "poor me" thread; it's simply giving people a heads up so they can avoid getting stung too.

At the April 6 Canberra fair, I bought a Hot Toys 1989 Batman from 2nd Childhood Toys and Collectables for $380 and given the market prices he goes for, I was entirely happy with the deal at the time.

Last night I finally decided to get him out of the box, only to discover that the PERS system on him broke, resulting in the left eye being cross eyed.

Figuring the best approach was simply to try and get a replacement head sourced from Hot Toys through him. Should be straightforward right? Boy was I wrong.

The following is the email chain that has transpired to date through the ebay messaging system (the only way I knew of to get hold of him):

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Hi Kyle,
The Hot Toys 89 Batman you sold me at the April Canberra fair has a dodgy pers system (from what I'm reading, apparently it was a fairly common issue with DX-09s). Could you get in touch with Hot Toys and organise a replacement head?

Cheers,
Andy

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No . I Bought it from popcultcha and they wont replace anything either. It had never been removed from the box so I am also not liable.
Sorry
Kyle

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It's worth mentioning at this point that when I bought it, it had been removed from the mailer box, and the plastic covering the figure was missing.

Anyway, moving on:

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Really, popcultcha wont source replacement parts from hot Toys? Then why is it that I was just on the phone to Popculcha and when I spoke to a gentleman named Toby, I was told by him that they would try and source replacement parts from Hot Toys? In fact the only reason that they would not deal directly with me is that as they are a retail store and do not operate as a distributor, they will only deal with the customer who bought it from them directly - in this case, that would be you.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and presume that you simply weren't aware that they would try and source replacement parts, and once again ask you to try and source a replacement head - this time by contacting Popculcha collectables and getting them to get the ball rolling on this. I trust that you will do the right thing here.

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What I wouke you to do is box it back up and send it to me. I knew dealing with you is always a hassle. So this is what I will do. Send it back and drop it off and I will give you a complete refund. I had no idea about the problem because item has never been removed from the box. If i am going to waste my time trying to get replacement parts for an item I bought well over 12 months ago I would like to do it for myself. If you do not have my address please call me so i can give you my email address so you can contatc me away from my business.
And are far as Benefit of doubt i know of 2 people who have had problems with the Batman and Popcultcha promised the world and come up with zip both times. That is why I also no longer by my hot toys from them. So if you would kindly box up the item and safely return it to me I will return the $380 you paid for it. Than I will contatc Popcultcha and run through the practise of requiring about replacement parts and than not recieving them with out you messaging me every day or questioning my methods.
I dont have all day to discuss this as I run a business.
The usual coarse of action is to return a faulty item back to where you bought it. That is me.
kyle
04########

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Wow. Just Wow. It's highly telling that you call basic customer service "a hassle".

There was nothing unreasonable in what I was asking from you- which amounts to nothing more than a simple email request to a supplier for replacement parts. All I asked you to do initially is to contact Hot Toys to try and source a replacement.

Then when you got back to me, claimed that Popculcha were who you got it from, claimed they will not source replacement parts for damaged Hot Toys items. I found that curious, so I contacted them, for clarification, was told a very different story, that they would have helped me out, but because they are not a distributor or a wholesaler, they only deal with the people they bought it from. I then contacted you again, raised the misinformation asked you to do the right thing contact Popculcha to try and source a replacement part.

Had Hot Toys no longer had replacement heads in stock, then while I wouldn't have liked it, I would have accepted it and taken the hit. Had Popculcha over-promised and under-delivered, then while I wouldn't have been happy, I would have understood that it was out of your control and again, taken the hit.

Yet instead of the basic customer service you were talking about only a couple of years ago during a phone conversation we had where you were talking about the importance of customer service priding yourself on it, now someone wanting you to merely send off a couple of emails to try and source a replacement part is effectively "nothing but trouble" and you don't have time for basic customer service because you run a business, despite sales service being a part of that business?

Honestly it's a pretty bad look- especially when your response to such a reasonable request is essentially "Fine! Send it back to me for a full refund, now shut up and go away!"

I'll consider whether I try & source the parts myself or take the return & refund option, but either way I can no longer recommend you to others.

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The options are to send the item back to me and you will recieve a refund.
I have no problem trying to source a part down the road but i am sure you may know there are very few retail shops that will source a part for you. They will just let you refund the faulty item. As I see it the only way for me to replace the part is for me to have the item in my hands so i can not only see the problem but I can also describe the problem to those who will attempt to source a replacement.
As a retail shop I am happy to supply you with a complete refund as stated in my previous emails when the item has been returned to me.
Thank you for your time
Kyle
2nd Childhood Toys and Collectables

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On the contrary Kyle, as we are both aware, high end brands, such as Toynami and in this case, Hot Toys, do keep spares on hand to allow for replacement parts to be sent out to customers and to give retailers the option to source them for customers. As for having seeing the part and describing it, at the least photos could have been sent to you or for that matter, I could have just as easily sent just the head to you if it needed to be sent back as part of the replacement process. There were so many other options here which someone should be able to expect when they buy a high end $400 figure in terms of a reasonable level of customer service. You're simply deciding to throw this in the "too hard basket".

It's ironic- you were someone who I once greatly admired in terms of your business ethics- in fact I was blown away when you went out of your way to try and get Jamie to put things right with the Transformers Train set - even though you had nothing to do with that sale and therefore no responsiblity to do anything to intervene with it. Back the, you were someone who talked the talk when it came to customer service- but backed it up by well and truly walking the walk. I honestly wonder what the you from back then would say if you could see yourself now.

I'll try and source the replacement part myself, but don't expect me to speak favourably about this transaction to others.

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Honestly, I'm shocked at how this has gone down. The Kyle from a few years ago would never have been like this and would have happily emailed his supplier to try and get this sorted out - even if nothing came of it. Heck, if I was asked even a couple of days ago about him as a seller, I would have happily recommended him and never have imagined a scenario where I would ever remotely have to warn people to be wary when dealing with him. I honestly don't know what's happened to cause this; all I can say is that if this is any indication, I'd recommend people exercise caution when dealing with him in the future.

Nothing dodgey done?

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Originally Posted by Deonasis

Nothing dodgey done?

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nah, just bad selling rep. I can't say much as a lot of sellers are more protective as toys are a bit well.....not as high quality controlled as before.

The thing is this shouldn't have even been an issue to begin with. Hot Toys do carry spare parts for this very reason (whether they still have any in stock is another question of course) so it should have been a simple matter of contacting Hot Toys, either directly, or indirectly, to try and source the part.

It should have just been a situation where an email got sent off and either the part came in or there being no luck there- if nothing came of it then that would have just been the luck of the draw. Instead, it's become this situation where apparently after sales service is "taking time away from his business" and simply wanting the seller to send off an email to try and source replacement parts (from a toy company that does have that option) apparently makes someone nothing but trouble. It's bad enough when it happens with a dodgy seller, but as I said, Kyle was honestly one of the last people I'd every expect to behave in this manner.

I'm gonna come to Kyle's defense and say I've never had a problem with him and have dealt with him many times.

I've dealt with him several times too and before this I've never had a problem; never imagined in a million years that I would have had a problem with him either. That's why as I said, I'm in disbelief that I would actually have to post this thread, and I genuinely hope that for whatever reason he's just temporarily taken leave of his senses, because what I encountered is the complete opposite of what I've come to expect from him.

It's for that reason I'm recommending people exercise caution with him rather than avoiding him and I truly hope that whatever has caused this on his end, passes soon.

Seems like it escalated really quickly and is strange that in his first reply he stated that he had no liability yet in his second reply offers you a full refund (even if it is complete with attitude.)

That is no way for any business to conduct itself. While I do believe that Bowspearer could have handled his end better with his second reply, this "Kyle" showed a complete lack of understanding of basic customer service.

I'm curious Trent, how do you feel I could have handled that second response better, because I feel I handled it pretty well, all things considering. Not picking a fight; genuinely curious.

I don't really see a problem here. I think both parties could of handled themselves better. Sometimes people are just having a bad day. Not knowing all the facts, just an observation, customer service is a 2 way street, both parties need to act in a thoughtful manner to get the best outcome. Looks like Kyle started off poorly by been really blunt and unhelpful, next though the tone of your message comes across with a hint of accusation. Looks like it just escalated from there.

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

I'm curious Trent, how do you feel I could have handled that second response better, because I feel I handled it pretty well, all things considering. Not picking a fight; genuinely curious.

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Wouldn't used words like "Really", looking back I used it myself and may pissed people off. The seller might be having a bad day and when you said that is just like telling him off too.

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Originally Posted by Defcon

I don't really see a problem here. I think both parties could of handled themselves better. Sometimes people are just having a bad day. Not knowing all the facts, just an observation, customer service is a 2 way street, both parties need to act in a thoughtful manner to get the best outcome. Looks like Kyle started off poorly by been really blunt and unhelpful, next though the tone of your message comes across with a hint of accusation. Looks like it just escalated from there.

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I probably should state at this point that that is the entirety of the correspondence between them and I.

As for my initial response, I take your point, however in my defence, he'd not only been unhelpful, but in the process, he'd said something that was completely false - that Popculcha would respond by being unhelpful. Yes I realise that overpromising and underdelivering is refusal's close cousin, but there is a difference there. Also at that point, he'd made no mention that he was making an assumption based on a couple of horror stories where people had experienced over-promising and under-delivering - simply made a vague statement that they would refuse to source a replacement part.

Bear in mind that all I had to go on at that point was him saying that Popculcha would refuse to source a replacement part on one hand, and a phone call I made to Popculcha this morning before sending that response - where their customer service agent was telling me the complete opposite of what he had said to me and making his statement come across as, at best, misinformation.

I honestly don't see how it's possible to handle it any better while covering the facts without stating that what I had been told was false, but then giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Heck I didn't even accuse him of giving me false information - I simply asked why he had made that claim when Popculcha had told me the complete opposite over the phone.Short of saying nothing at all and simply capitulating, I honestly don't see how it's possible to handle that situation without that inference being there.

Having worked in retail myself, I agree that customer interactions are certainly a 2 way street, but I'd also say that as a customer, it's also entirely reasonable that a business will genuinely meet a customer half way when their is a problem. Now maybe it's just me, but when you're being fobbed off and given vague statements which reasonably come across as blatant misinformation, not only is that anything but genuinely meeting the customer half way, but the person making those statements can't be surprised when the nature of them comes back to bite them.

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Originally Posted by drifand

Wouldn't used words like "Really", looking back I used it myself and may pissed people off. The seller might be having a bad day and when you said that is just like telling him off too.

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Noted, but by the same token, in that situation, I was the customer and I'd been completely fobbed off and given false information at that point in response to a completely polite and courteous request.

IMHO, if you're in business and you pull stunts like that to reasonable customer requests when there's a problem with something a client has purchased, then you're in no position to be offended when a customer starts getting assertive and standing their ground- not to mention implies that they are less than impressed by being treated with utter contempt by being fobbed off with misinformation.

There's a reason that the old saying is "the customer is always right"....

Is kind of bad luck, I am pretty sure if you have bought and opened in front of him, things could be different.

I remember buying toys from a regular store and I would and in fact he would open it for me to check. (I am not a MISB) so any defects he would change it immediately rather than letting me go and coming back.

I say he might have been "trying" to just brush you off, but seeing that he couldn't he offered what he could do next. Its not the best customer service but unfortunately they do happen. If anything, he just lost you as a customer as I don't see how you would carry on buying from him, unless you willing to forgive and forget.

Oh and the "customer is always right" thing, I been burnt very badly before and I advise to approach wisely as even consumer protection can't do things sometimes.

Honestly, the bad luck in terms of the HT Batman isn't the problem here - realistically even if he'd contacted Popculcha and Popculcha had contacted Hot Toys (I'm guessing through Ikon Collectables as they're the distributor iirc), there was still the chance that Hot Toys wouldn't have had spare heads in stock. While I'd be lying if I said I'd be happy with that outcome, had it happened I would have been disappointed, but would have also felt that he'd given it a shot. The old Kyle would have too - "the old Kyle" being the operative term.

The fact is that it's really sad when someone who is a seller who you've know for years and could never have believed in a million years would have acted this way, does just that. I've accepted there's no real way out of this without losing out in some manner or another; I just think it's worth putting out there that he's changed and if this is anything to go by, people aren't going to get the same experience they once had with him.

I truly hope that changes though, because what I experienced today was so radically out of character for him and I genuinely hope that whatever it was that caused it is not only temporary, but resolves itself sooner rather than later.

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Originally Posted by bowspearer

I honestly don't see how it's possible to handle it any better while covering the facts without stating that what I had been told was false, but then giving someone the benefit of the doubt. Heck I didn't even accuse him of giving me false information - I simply asked why he had made that claim when Popculcha had told me the complete opposite over the phone.Short of saying nothing at all and simply capitulating, I honestly don't see how it's possible to handle that situation without that inference being there.

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Yeah he could and should of just given more information in his first response. He should of been assertive from the beginning. Its probably going to be a learning experience for him, on how to handle things in the future.

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Really, popcultcha wont source replacement parts from hot Toys? Then why is it that I was just on the phone to Popculcha and when I spoke to a gentleman named Toby, I was told by him that they would try and source replacement parts from Hot Toys? In fact the only reason that they would not deal directly with me is that as they are a retail store and do not operate as a distributor, they will only deal with the customer who bought it from them directly - in this case, that would be you.

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The tone of this paragraph is clearly inflammatory. Whether you meant it to be or not, it was bound to incite a heated response, which you got. In my job, I have to deal with the public quite a bit. And if they get put through to me, odds are they are upset. The worst thing I can do in that situation is get emotional myself. No matter how loud, sarcastic or angry they are the best thing I can do is keep my voice calm and steady while relaying to them the facts that more often then not make them :mad:. While they seldom end the conversation happy, at least (most times) a mutual respect and understanding can be reached and my position made clear (Not to mention if I told them where to go, and GOD have I wanted to sometimes, my job would be in serious jeopardy). If I was to get emotional back at them, the situation will spiral out of control very quickly and we will actually go backwards instead of making progress.

In your case I would have stated the facts without the accusatory overtones and asked again politely to have a replacement sent out and go from there. Having an e-argument and smashing the keyboard as you type isn't going to end well. Basically you have to be the bigger man. He loses in the end. Here you are warning us about him and no doubt this will affect his business. So revenge is yours.

And I'm not having a dig, I too sometimes lose it at people that are arseholes and it feels really good. But sometimes the cost outweighs the benefits :)

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Originally Posted by Trent

The tone of this paragraph is clearly inflammatory.

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I'm not denying that it was inflammatory, what I'm saying is that I don't see a way it could be raised without it being inflammatory to some degree.

If for example I could have responded with this (and this is about as non-inflammatory a manner of phrasing it as I can think of under the circumstances):

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If Popculcha wont source replacement parts for customers, then why is it that the gentleman from Popculcha whom I spoke to by the name to Toby, made it clear in no uncertain terms that they most definitely would attempt to source replacement parts from Hot Toys? In fact the only reason which they didn't help me out is because as they are a retailer rather than a supplier, they require you to directly contact them about this issue.

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Even though that is somewhat less combative, that can still be taken by someone looking for a fight, as me accusing them of blatantly lying to me.

The other thing is that, looking at his responses, I'm honestly convinced that toning in down would have made no difference. He's made it clear in those messages that:

• he is only willing to contact suppliers who offer spare parts, about spare parts, if it concerns something he owns and not as a part of his after sales service
• that carrying out such a service to customers is something which he considers to take time away from his business
• that a customer making such a request makes them "a hassle"
  that customers product issues which turn into complaints have nothing to do
• with his business and should be made outside of the official lines of communication for his business

The other thing is that I can't help but notice a certain degree of irony in your post, even though I do take your point about the higher road.

You were talking about your role as what I imagine is some form of customer service agent/public liason officer and applying it to the situation here, where you try to keep calm and polite in your day to day job when dealing with angry customers to try and defuse them. Here in this case, I was a calm customer who was making a reasonable request, but was instead aggravated by someone in customer service who was unprofessional and refused to keep calm and polite.

Don't get me wrong, I'll definitely keep it in mind, but are you sure you're not having this particular discussion with the wrong person in this particular case? ;)

I'm curious about this line from Kyle:

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I knew dealing with you is always a hassle

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That to me implies that you've had some issues previously? Correct me if i'm wrong, but why else would somebody be compelled to write a statement like that if not due to past experiences? That may be a reason as to why he is so blunt with you

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Originally Posted by Sinnertwin

I'm curious about this line from Kyle:

That to me implies that you've had some issues previously?. Correct me if i'm wrong, but why else would somebody be compelled to write a statement like that if not due to past experiences?

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In a nutshell, that statement has a sliver of truth to it, padded with a whole lot of hyperbole. There has really only been one "hassle" as he put it out of the times I've dealt with him that I can think of. There was a fairly lengthy delay in me getting him the money for a few MOTUC items and at the time. To put it in context though, by even his own admission, there were a stack of people who fell into that category and when he finally said that the money needed to be sorted, it was in short order. About the only other thing was a Pokemon Blue game that I initially wanted but then changed my mind on- before money had changed hands.

Here's the thing though - if I was such a "hassle" then why did he happily have me on his stall selling items and helping out - not just on a Parramatta fair a couple of years ago (which from memory is the last Parramatta Fair I attended), as several Ozformers members who saw me can attest to, but then again last year at the Canberra APCS fair (which prior to this year's APCS fair, was the last toy fair I attended)? I'm sure you'd agree that if someone was deemed to be "such a hassle", the last thing you would be doing is letting them anywhere near the operational aspects of your business - let alone a second time.

Also if I was "such a hassle" then why did he even agree to sell me the figure anyway when it was done during the setup time on the previous day and he could just as easily have refused to?

None of those things however, change the fact that all he was politely asked to do was to send an email to Hot Toys and subsequently to his supplier to check whether Hot Toys could supply a spare head for a $400 collectable, when the company is in the practice of supplying spare parts - to which I was met with misinformation, stonewalling and an Everest sized mountain of attitude.

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Originally Posted by Sinnertwin

I'm curious about this line from Kyle:

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I knew dealing with you is always a hassle

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That to me implies that you've had some issues previously? Correct me if i'm wrong, but why else would somebody be compelled to write a statement like that if not due to past experiences? That may be a reason as to why he is so blunt with you

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+1

I'm more inclined to take feedback into consideration when both parties have a passage of reply, not just one person voicing their concerns on a fan forum without the other parties knowledge. There's more to this than meets the eye (no pun intended) ;)

I just got an SMS from Sonny who runs APCS where I bought it from Kyle. He's apparently spoken to Kyle and Kyle has now sent an email off to Popculcha to try and source a replacement head. While the initial unpleasantness of this was far from ideal, he's at least come to the party now in terms of everything he can reasonably do here and so I'm happy to chalk this incident up to him having some weird and off day. Mods, feel free to delete this thread.