What is the greatness of Transformers UK?

Alright. In fandom, I'm constantly reminded by how great Furman's run on the Transformers UK books were. I've never really read them though they did come into my possession at one point. I jumped on the IDW reprints of these tales and quite honestly have been dumbfounded by the inadequacy of these UK stories.

Mind you, I have high expectations of them b/c of fan affection for them. However, given all my reading of Target: 2006, Dinobots thus far (two frequently mentioned storylines), I've thus far only be greated by sheer mediocrity. I'm not saying it's worse than stuff of it's time. What I'm saying it isn't much better than the US Marvel Transformers or G2 (which though had some good moments were never quite any good)

Looking in terms of characterisation, I see glimpses here and there of the base G1 characters but really the plots are loopy and the other Autobots are almost background generic with the odd comment showing their individuality. Even the Dinobot stories aren't showing much... I mean, Sludge head over heels over a woman...

Oh and the art sucks majorly but that's a personal preference thing and I can appreciate people have different preferences.

What's disappointing is where are these high and mighty complex tales that I keep hearing about that are the highpoint of Transformers fiction. I can't see it. As far as I'm concerned, Furman's run on the US G1 Marvel series was far superior in terms of story.

So can anyone show me where the greatness is?

I'm not sure what IDW is reprinting in the Dinobots series? I assume it's Dinobot Hunt? That's very early on but has it's moments (like the Autobots questioning former Decepticon Jetfire's loyalty whereas in the US he was just welcomed into the ranks no questions asked). The later Dinobot story "In The National Interest" is a great story and my favourite Dinobot story.

TF UK's main difference was that the focus was on the Transformers. Most of Budiansky's run the stories were about humans interacting with Transformers whereas Furman had no problems telling stories that were soley about Transformers at times.

After Target 2006 the next 100 issues had an ongoing plot centred around Galvatron interspersed cleverly between the US stories (and 98% of the time not contradicting them!). This was a far longer, bigger story than anything the US produced. This is where the greatness comes from.

While the US continued to have stories designed to introduce the new toys, the UK comic simply told good stories about the Transformers. Forget Carwashes, used car lots and space carnivals, the UK gave us the Predacons vs the Dinobots, robot zombies(!) and an all-out Quintesson invasion of Cybertron.

The later UK stuff, the black and white five pagers, is not as great, but worth it for the character of Carnivac who Beast Wars Dinobot owes a lot to.

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Originally Posted by Paulbot

The later UK stuff, the black and white five pagers, is not as great, but worth it for the character of Carnivac who Beast Wars Dinobot owes a lot to.

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The Wreckers/Survivors stuff is gold.

The Earthforce stuff was alright for a bit of stand-alone fun, had a lot more humour in it than anything else released around the same time.

The Titan trades are worth the $10 or so they'll set you back, otherwise Time Wars is a good read. Furman really did do some great character work, especially for Grimlock, but the stuff for Nightbeat, Thunderwing, and even Rodimus far surpasses anything ever seen in the US comics.

Paulbot and i_amtrunks have summed up the differences in the quality of story telling quite well. :)

As for the artwork...

Here's a comparison of the US and UK covers of...

"The Human Factor!"
US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us68.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk303.jpg UK

Underbase Starscream
US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us50.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk209.jpg UK

Marvel US' José Delbo - "Thunderbirds are go!" (his TFs tend to look like puppets)
http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us42.jpg

Marvel UK's Andrew Wildman
http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk199.jpg

Marvel UK's Geoff Senior
http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk224.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/planetsabretron/bludgeon.jpg

And differences in colouring between same artworks...

UShttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us24.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk106.jpg

US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us71.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk311.jpg UK

US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us72.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk314.jpg UK

US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us74.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk318.jpg UK

US http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us75.jpghttp://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/uk319.jpg UK

In the US comics Xaaron was always completely yellow http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/tr...npossessed.jpg
Whereas he had more colours in the UK comics http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/tr...ratexaaron.jpg

The UK comics had better print quality too - US Marvel Comics in the 80s used a very cheap and "pixelated" print format which didn't look nice. :/

Does this mean that in the comic world US = Hasbro and UK = Takara? :p
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Pissing Mature

Yes. All the best creators of the G1 US comics came from the UK comics first. :)

Thanks, Paulbot. I guess I'll have to keep following IDW's reprints to see if they get better. It sounds like they do with things like Dinobots vs. Predacons.

One thing I think the UK comicshad the advantage with was that they didn't have the constraints the US version did. The US one was the main marketing vehicle as Hasbro is a US company after all.Hence the drive was more to sell toys in more kid-like situations.

I don't necessarily agree on the art, Gok. UK was as ugly as UK at times. I think today's artists are far better. But as I acknowledge, art preference is a personal thing. Stories on the otherhand tend to be good or not.

Okay, taste preferences aside, here's why I think the UK art was better on a technical level...

1. Colouring - look a the comparative shots between US and UK colouring. UK colourists had a better execution of lighting. The colouring in the US comics were often relatively more simplistic and stark, whereas the UK colouring employed a wider palette and had a better use of gradients creating better textures - just look at the colouring difference between US and UK Emirate Xaaron. In the US comics, Yomtov just splashed yellow on him, whereas in the UK comics the colourist uses a combination of yellow and orange in a manner which makes him look like he's actually made of metal! When light strikes off a surface, especially metal, it will reflect in different shades and gradients. Look at Unicron's hand... the lighting is a lot better done in the UK version, which even includes optical flares reflecting off the hand, again creating the image that it is made of something shiny like metal! See the image of Optimus Prime kneeling? Look at the shadows beneath each picture and you'll see that again the shadow work is done a lot better in the UK version.

2. Visual narrative - generally it was crap in the US comics. One key element of modern comic book art is the cinematic technique; contemporary comic book art pioneers like Jack Kirby and Tezuka Osamu paved the way for what we now refer to as the cinematic technique that is used in comic books today. Long gone are the days where entire scenes occur in a single frame or panel, but instead action is split up into several frames - much like the storyboard for a movie (hence the name of this technique). The cinematic technique lends comic books "animation" in what is really a static form of art - these images are really not moving, but a good comic book artist will create the illusion in the reader's mind that they are. Now part of creating a good cinematic technique is being able to draw dynamic poses - poses that look more like the characters were photographed in mid-action and thus the image was frozen rather than intentionally posing for a shot. I find that the US artists were generally not as good as the UK artists in drawing dynamic action - especially José Delbo (and much worse still, Dwayne Turner *shudder*) - in the US comics they often looked like "Thunderbirds" marionettes; puppets dangling off strings and posing for shots, rather than giant f***ing robots who have been caught in mid-tumble! And that's what the UK artists tend to achieve better in. Look at the US version of Underbase Starscream... he's got his left foot in and his left foot out - what's he doing, the Hokey-Pokey?! Oh look at all those other Transformers around him fall from Starscream's Square-Dance of Doom! Now look at the UK version - Starscream is stepping over those Transformers who are flying about everywhere cos Starscream is blowing their asses up with his eye beams! Look at Rodimus Prime and Galvatron going at it... and Bludgeon with his katana up ready to decapitate Jazz... you can almost "feel" the tension. Now look at that image of Shockwave taking that king hit from Scorponok! That's got to hurt! Compare this now with the image of Prime getting shot by Megatron... umm... yeah? Relatively far less impressive - Prime gets shot and he leans to one side... Scorponok is hitting Shockwave so hard that his body has turned leaning inward toward Shockwave because his body is following his claw - which shows that your strike is delivering so much power that the arm is dragging the body along with it! Been watching the recent tennis coverage? Notice how good tennis players will actually have their body dragged along behind their rackets as they hit the ball, whereas crap tennis players will move their body behind the racket (and tend to rely more on their arm and racket string tension to hit the ball rather than driving any real power into their hits). The same goes with cricket - a good batsman will have his body move up with the bat whereas a poor batsman will do the opposite. There is power in that hit. And poor Shockwave's body is just totally keeled over from the ferocity of that strike!

Action scenes in the US comics was a lot like action scenes in "Team America: World Police", whereas in the UK comics it was literally a case of "let the bodies hit the floor!"

For example, one of my single favourite action shots was in The Matrix Quest when Jazz was trying to reason with Thunderwing and Grimlock just strolls up to the Decepticon and says something like, "No talk - hit!" and drives a punch into Thunderwing so hard that Thunderwing literally flew across the room and into a pile of crates... mech fluid dripping from the corner of his mouth where Grimlock's fist had connected (of course this was immediately followed by Thunderwing replying with, "Interesting... I almost felt that." ;D)

You know in the Transformers live action movie when the Transformers fight and they literally throw each other all over the place? That happens in the comics and it looks a lot more impressive in the UK comics. In the US comics they look more like rag dolls being thrown about whereas in the UK comics it's more similar to what you see in the Michael Bay movie - wanton destruction and hurtage!

But it's not all just about fighting... there are also some great emotional moments which the UK artists handle better IMO... such as the moment when Optimus Prime mourns over Scorponok's death. There's no words in that frame... just a silhouette image of Prime hunched over Scorponok, cradling the fallen Decepticon - almost as if he were weeping.

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Originally Posted by kup

Does this mean that in the comic world US = Hasbro and UK = Takara?

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Actually the artwork in the G1 manga craps all over the UK comics! It craps all over Dreamwave and is comparable with E.J. Su's art (depending on the artist - some of them are better than Su). A lot of the artwork in the Transformers Visual Works book was done by G1 manga artists.

But having said that, the G1 manga had terrible stories - worse than the G1 cartoon... it was aimed at kindergarteners or pre-schoolers. (-_-)

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Okay, taste preferences aside, here's why I think the UK art was better on a technical level...

1. Colouring - look a the comparative shots between US and UK colouring. UK colourists had a better execution of lighting. The colouring in the US comics were often relatively more simplistic and stark, whereas the UK colouring employed a wider palette and had a better use of gradients creating better textures - just look at the colouring difference between US and UK Emirate Xaaron. In the US comics, Yomtov just splashed yellow on him, whereas in the UK comics the colourist uses a combination of yellow and orange in a manner which makes him look like he's actually made of metal! When light strikes off a surface, especially metal, it will reflect in different shades and gradients. Look at Unicron's hand... the lighting is a lot better done in the UK version, which even includes optical flares reflecting off the hand, again creating the image that it is made of something shiny like metal! See the image of Optimus Prime kneeling? Look at the shadows beneath each picture and you'll see that again the shadow work is done a lot better in the UK version.

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How Yomtov managed to keep his job for all the years never ceases to amaze me, he did such a substandard job, and never improved or changed his style.

+1

Nel Yomtov had this nasty habit of colouring Soundwave purple...
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/tr...e_uscomics.jpg
...and yes, for some reason US artist José Delbo liked to draw Soundwave with a mouth (which isn't even emoting well...)

Then there was his persistent habit of drawing all characters not in the main shot some common plain colour - usually purple. He must've sure loved purple...

...then there was the front cover of US#58...
http://www.tfarchive.com/comics/marvel/covers/us58.jpg...wtf?!
Yeah okay, I understand that Prime is meant to be mightily urinated there, but why is he completely red?!

lol, Soundwave with a mouth. That happened spontaneously for about 6 issues. I remember the first time I saw him, it just felt like 'wtf?!? is that Soundwave?!?'
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Buy glass bongs

It falls into the same category as Starscream's missing ear. Delbo based his drawings on the models in the Universe series (to the point of basically tracing them sometimes) in which Starscream's other ear can't be seen and Soundwave has a mouth-like squiggle on his face.

That Red Prime cover Gok has is simply a blown up close up of the Powermaster Optimus Prime model art. All up that cover must have taken all of five minutes to prepare. I wonder if there was a rejected original cover (as I believe Hasbro had to approve all the covers back then)?

Yeah, Hasbro had to approve everything - I love that story about Simon Furman once writing this completely ridiculous story that completely threw the Transformers universe out of whack and killed off virtually every character just to see if Hasbro was paying attention... and yeah, they rejected the script. :)

Getting back into reading the single comics that I've amassed in my room and got through Time Wars #1 and it was quite cringeworthy. I thought that after the previous set of UK reprints before Time Wars the stories would get better (b/c they were!) but this just continued the massive cringe factor for me that leaves me wondering how the UK comics are held in such high esteem.

Shockwave's shockingly s***tty lines spoiled a lot it for me. Just who speaks out loud in so many words when they're about to be killed? He's directing his every action verbally. Gah.

Then there's the Galvatron/Megatron fight which I was really eager to read thinking it'd be a classic but it was so poorly constructed you'd have thought a kid wrote it. I mean, at the mere mention of Starscream, the two decide to join forces? It's so abrupt and out of nowhere that you're pulled out of the story by its sheer stupidity.

The Scorponok one was pretty lame too. A lot of very lame dialogue. It felt, pun intended, very mechncal.

One of the saving graces I was thinking of was maybe it was a product of its time and as much as I've been a fan of silver age/older styles, the more cinematic/naturalistic modern storytelling is my thing now. Another reason is maybe IDW skipped a few issues inbetween?

None of what you've read is actually "Time Wars". It's just prelude stuff from the UK Annuals.

the stories are a little better then the US ones

but remember, they both look like they were coloured and drawn by kids in kindy :D

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Originally Posted by STL

So can anyone show me where the greatness is?

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Imagine it's 1986, you're Australian and you're nine years old. This is just before the movie (and thus Season Three of the cartoon) has come out. You rock up at a newsagent and instead of the usual Transformers comics there's this new one with painted art that comes with free posters, stickers and sticker books. And - instead of the simplistic stories in the cartoon or the other comic's stories about subjects like a white guy with an afro who claims to control the Transformers - you're reading something completely new. For the first time in any medium we're reading stories about Ultra Magnus and Galvatron. The Autobots are led by Jetfire and Megatron against bad guys who include Scourge and Jazz. On Cybertron there are characters like Roadbuster, Octane and Twin Twist. And all these characters are wrapped in a complex epic story about time travel, Cybertron and Earth that's unlike anything that has *ever* happened in any genre of Transformers before. And in the UK comics it turns out that this sort of thing happens every week.

To this day, 'Target 2006' still ranks amongst the best Transformers stories ever told. (They even just released some toys that were a homage to it.) And then, for years after that first Australian storyline, we went back to the newsagents week after week and picked up yet another well-written chapter in the tapestry of a massive ongoing storyline. Try to find another single Transformers medium that lasted for three hundred or so stories. (I'm pretty sure there isn't one.)

The Wreckers; Transformers changing sides; time travel - that stuff all began here before other continuities. You're looking at this with a hindsight of an extra couple of decades of Transformers history, much of which is just ripping off the stuff Furman did for the franchise anyway. If you don't get it, maybe you had to be there. But it shouldn't be that way. Transformers UK is empirically awesome.

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Edited due to me being chronologically challenged. :D

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Originally Posted by Sky Shadow

Imagine it's 19961986,

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Fix'd! :)
But yeah, I agree - in the context of the 1980s, compared with the Marvel US comics and G1 cartoon, the UK comics were awesomesauce. Transformers Animated by 2008 standards is mediocre at best.

I think that they hold up extremely well now. My real exposure to the UK comics (It was US comics as a kid and even so I never got to read most of them) was as an adult I couldn't stop reading them until I had gone through all 300 or so issues.

When I was in high school other kids often mocked me for still liking Transformers. For the few kids that cared to actually ask why I still liked Transformers (and actually wanted to know the answer instead of just mindless ridicule) I would tell them about the stories from the UK comics and it would immediately justify my Transfandom in the eyes of others. I remember during one English class I sat down and talked to some of my classmates about Transformers theology (Primus, Unicron* etc. - all spawned from the UK comics). They actually sat and listened intently and some admitted that they were quite fascinated by the story even though they had no personal interest in Transformers.

(*as a god)

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Originally Posted by Sky Shadow

Imagine it's 1986, you're Australian and you're nine years old.

I was like two then at most. :eek: :rolleyes: :D

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Originally Posted by Sky Shadow

This is just before the movie (and thus Season Three of the cartoon) has come out. You rock up at a newsagent and instead of the usual Transformers comics there's this new one with painted art that comes with free posters, stickers and sticker books. And - instead of the simplistic stories in the cartoon or the other comic's stories about subjects like a white guy with an afro who claims to control the Transformers - you're reading something completely new. For the first time in any medium we're reading stories about Ultra Magnus and Galvatron. The Autobots are led by Jetfire and Megatron against bad guys who include Scourge and Jazz. On Cybertron there are characters like Roadbuster, Octane and Twin Twist. And all these characters are wrapped in a complex epic story about time travel, Cybertron and Earth that's unlike anything that has *ever* happened in any genre of Transformers before. And in the UK comics it turns out that this sort of thing happens every week.

To this day, 'Target 2006' still ranks amongst the best Transformers stories ever told. (They even just released some toys that were a homage to it.) And then, for years after that first Australian storyline, we went back to the newsagents week after week and picked up yet another well-written chapter in the tapestry of a massive ongoing storyline. Try to find another single Transformers medium that lasted for three hundred or so stories. (I'm pretty sure there isn't one.)

The Wreckers; Transformers changing sides; time travel - that stuff all began here before other continuities. You're looking at this with a hindsight of an extra couple of decades of Transformers history, much of which is just ripping off the stuff Furman did for the franchise anyway. If you don't get it, maybe you had to be there. But it shouldn't be that way. Transformers UK is empirically awesome.

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I think some of the stuff stands up some of it doesn't. The art definitely does not but having read issue #2 of Time Wars, it was rock solid. Art aside, it was very well written and the dialogue was very good. Perhaps as Paulbot poiinted out those were simply the filler issues that weren't pertinent to the story line. Space Pirates was very cool too. Target 2006 I couldn't get into as the art just ruined it for me. Not very robotic.

I think that with any thing thats written, its whether it can withstand the test of time. Some things stand up in their context and some don't. I think the better TF stories will withstand the test of time while the others will be frowned upon. it's the same for most comics really. Unlike fiction, comics has never withstood the test of time as well. A lot has to do w/ technological advances I'd imagine but yeah, some of the UK stuff has been excellent but some of it is cringeworthy.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

They actually sat and listened intently and some admitted that they were quite fascinated by the story even though they had no personal interest in Transformers.

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:eek: Really? Even as a Transformer collector, I'd totally shrug and roll my eyes if this was considered riveting conversation. Unless of course it was a soliloquy.

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Originally Posted by STL

I think some of the stuff stands up some of it doesn't. The art definitely does not but having read issue #2 of Time Wars, it was rock solid. Art aside, it was very well written and the dialogue was very good. Perhaps as Paulbot poiinted out those were simply the filler issues that weren't pertinent to the story line. Space Pirates was very cool too. Target 2006 I couldn't get into as the art just ruined it for me. Not very robotic.

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I don't understand the art concerns - visually, Target: 2006 is still great. It's painted and drawn by artists who make Dan Khanna look like a fingerpainter. Obviously, putting out a weekly meant they had to rotate artists, but over a quarter of the issues were even drawn by Geoff Senior - Transformers have never been any more robotic! Personally, I think Space Pirates was leagues weaker as a storyline (although it was good to see a female Transformer get some comics development for the first time) and I know it had Wheelie rhyming and some Dan Reed art - that man's art is to robots what antimatter is to matter.

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Originally Posted by STL

Unlike fiction, comics has never withstood the test of time as well.

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Um... STL... either I have some serious comprehension issues or you might need to reread this sentence, since I'm not sure that what you've written is what you wanted to say. :) Comics are still fiction, right? (If not, I'm off to find me a radioactive spider...)

[QUOTE=Sky Shadow;70410]I don't understand the art concerns - visually, Target: 2006 is still great. It's painted and drawn by artists who make Dan Khanna look like a fingerpainter. Obviously, putting out a weekly meant they had to rotate artists, but over a quarter of the issues were even drawn by Geoff Senior - Transformers have never been any more robotic! Personally, I think Space Pirates was leagues weaker as a storyline (although it was good to see a female Transformer get some comics development for the first time) and I know it had Wheelie rhyming and some Dan Reed art - that man's art is to robots what antimatter is to matter.

I guess that comes down to a preference thing then. I've been known on these boards and abroad not to like Senior very much. For me, they tried way too hard to make them human and they don't inspire my imagination very much. I'm more of a modern guy I guess despite having crazily pursued many 80s runs of various comics.

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Um... STL... either I have some serious comprehension issues or you might need to reread this sentence, since I'm not sure that what you've written is what you wanted to say. :) Comics are still fiction, right? (If not, I'm off to find me a radioactive spider...)

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You're chronologically challenged. Me? I'm logically challenged and probably a lot of other things too. :)

What I meant was that comics unlike other forms of fiction haven't withstood the test of time as well.

So between the G1 cartoon, G1 US comics and G1 UK comics, which do you think have withstood the test of time the best? I dunno about you, but when I go back and watch the G1 cartoons, they feel really campy and often goofy to me. There are a few good episodes here and there (I like most of the episodes written by David Wise), but overall the series feels quite camp to me. The US comics not so bad - IMO Budiansky was the best writer in G1 in terms of making the Transformers feel other-worldly... I agree that Furman does make them too human at times. But there are a lot of other moments in Budiansky's writing that makes me cringe (like Optimus Prime & the floppy disk!). Overall I prefer Furman over Budiansky though. So between those three, I would personally rate the UK comics as the best overall.

STL,

I'd think that the greatness of Transformers UK was because it was the best TF medium at that time, and for many of us- we grew up with that.

Reading through the thread, I realise that it's the younger members who question its 'greatness'. Bash me if I'm unfair in saying this, but you weren't there :D. Gok, Kup, Paulbot and Sky Shadow were probably there, and I was too.

I mean, we've got to feel what we gotta feel. Saying that TF UK is not better than the TF comics of today is like me telling my mum that Cliff Richard is outdated but Axel Rose kicks a**. Similarly, I might today be told that Fergie is so much more delectable than Axel Rose. Or its like me telling a 60s comic fan that Jack Kirby is a lousy artist but Jim Lee and Todd McFarlane rocks.

In the end, its what we grew up with, its what's close to heart. And its all subjective.

We can say "...imagine it's 1986, you're Australian and you're nine years old. This is just before the movie (and thus Season Three of the cartoon) has come out. You rock up at a newsagent and instead of the usual Transformers comics there's this new one with painted art that comes with free posters, stickers and sticker books. And - instead of the simplistic stories in the cartoon or the other comic's stories about subjects like a white guy with an afro who claims to control the Transformers - you're reading something completely new." (quoted from Sky Shadow, and I completly agree with you mate. It was the same for me too so I'd say this experience happened in many parts of the world at the time).

You might try to imagine, you might even understand it, but you will never know- because you weren't there. :p

I think that if you've had your shot at G1 UK and found it wanting, maybe its time to leave and spend your time on other TF mediums which you find more appealing. No point reading something and getting disappointed or worse still, reading something with the preconceived notion that you will be disappointed.

I'd recommend giving "Prey" and "Second Generation" a shot too. :)

I noticed that a lot of people don't take the context of the time something was released into account when evaluating it.

Its like saying that Charlie Chaplin films don't compare with modern comedies because they lack color and are mute.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

So between the G1 cartoon, G1 US comics and G1 UK comics, which do you think have withstood the test of time the best? I dunno about you, but when I go back and watch the G1 cartoons, they feel really campy and often goofy to me. There are a few good episodes here and there (I like most of the episodes written by David Wise), but overall the series feels quite camp to me. The US comics not so bad - IMO Budiansky was the best writer in G1 in terms of making the Transformers feel other-worldly... I agree that Furman does make them too human at times. But there are a lot of other moments in Budiansky's writing that makes me cringe (like Optimus Prime & the floppy disk!). Overall I prefer Furman over Budiansky though. So between those three, I would personally rate the UK comics as the best overall.

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Yup, that's pretty much where the greatness of the Uk Comics lies, compared to the Cartoon, and the US comic overall the UK comic was the best, and the one that still stands best today. It has many dodgy plotlines and some so-so art at times. But the UK comics gave the young Transformer fans of the time something the cartoon and the US comic couldn't a weekly fix of exciting Transformers stories. As a kid the UK comic was always an exciting read for me, you could never tell which TF might turn up or who would suddenly be offed they had a real sense of drama at the time, compared say to the Cartoon where unless it was a 2 parter the story would always end with the good guys winning and the Autobots laughing at somelame joke. The US comic, while having some thrills and spills failed to make them particularly dramatic, at least in the early issues.

The other thing I like about the UK comics is they featured such a broad range of characters, and gave some interesting personalities. While there are definate issues I have with some of Furmans stories, he seems to be one of the only TF writer who doesn't focus exclusively on TF chracters from the first 3 years.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

So between the G1 cartoon, G1 US comics and G1 UK comics, which do you think have withstood the test of time the best? I dunno about you, but when I go back and watch the G1 cartoons, they feel really campy and often goofy to me. There are a few good episodes here and there (I like most of the episodes written by David Wise), but overall the series feels quite camp to me. The US comics not so bad - IMO Budiansky was the best writer in G1 in terms of making the Transformers feel other-worldly... I agree that Furman does make them too human at times. But there are a lot of other moments in Budiansky's writing that makes me cringe (like Optimus Prime & the floppy disk!). Overall I prefer Furman over Budiansky though. So between those three, I would personally rate the UK comics as the best overall.

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I have a strange amalgamation of the US cartoon and comics in my mind with bits added from DWs stuff, WW especially. Personally, continuity bothers me very little and its more about the broader TF universe.

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Originally Posted by kup

I noticed that a lot of people don't take the context of the time something was released into account when evaluating it.

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Yet those who sit in the past fail to ever move forward. Something that is good should not just be good for those times, it should withstand the test of time. I often appreciate the issue of timing but it doesn't go a long way to compensating a poor story.

Heroic, I don't mind delving into it. Its a part of the TF mythos and I do want to see where it sits in that. I don't necessarily have to like it but I do enjoy seeing where we've come from as well as trying to see for myself what others like in it. I just got through #3 of Time Wars and I did enjoy that. I enjoyed #2 too. #1 is still off but now I see why those reprinted parts were included.

I can see the whole "if you were there" angle. I know it all too well especially since I read a lot of comics. I was with Marvel's Thunderbolts from issue#1 and then it underwent radical changes with issue #76. In that time, I grew to love the characters, the changes that they went through and it was a part of me growing up. I personally still hold onto the series quite fondly b/c I grew up with it. It's since changed and is a much more mainstream Marvel book now with many changes I do not agree with, many characters I don't care about. I still follow it b/c it has one or two original cast members and the stories aren't too bad but that doesn't change the fact I don't like the new approach. Newer/modern readers like this new approach though and don't care much for the old older which makes me a bit sad. So that's where you guys are coming from and I can appreciate that.

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Originally Posted by STL

So can anyone show me where the greatness is?

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well... a lecturer asked this question to his class at UNSW in 2009

It was agreed that, the reason was this:


"It gave the british something to read about during 'tea time' while munching down on some scones with jam rollypolly for 'ellevensees' and at the same time remembering their brutal empire...that they lost!

I think that its safe to say that much of what was introduced and transpired in Marvel Transformers (particularly UK) has stood the test of time or we wouldn't be talking about it now nor would we see so much of its influence in modern mythos.

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Originally Posted by kup

I think that its safe to say that much of what was introduced and transpired in Marvel Transformers (particularly UK) has stood the test of time or we wouldn't be talking about it now nor would we see so much of its influence in modern mythos.

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Is that because it truly has stood the test of time, or is it because the person who wrote most of the UK Marvel TF comics back then has written pretty much 99% of all the modern G1 stuff?

I'd say it's stood the test of time. Simon Furman has only very recently gotten back into writing Transformers for (around 2002). But even between 1993-2002 Furman was definitely a favourite amongst TF fans, as demonstrated by the results of the now defunct annual Trannies Awards where year after year Furman was consistently voted by TF fans as their most favourite TF comic book writer between 1996-2003. And remember that Furman did do occasional guest-writing for TFs because he was so popular amongst TF fans. During the late 1990s he wrote the "Tales From The Beast Wars" BotCon comics and text stories and he was also the writer for the final episode of Beast Wars, something which made a lot of fans very happy.

So really, Furman has been a strong favourite amongst the TF fandom pretty much ever since 1985. :)