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Already posted on the Rise of the Beasts movie news thread, but I thought that this might be worthy of its own news thread; particularly for anyone who isn't following movie news. Hasbro has revealed images of Studio Series Rise of the Beasts Mirage and on have also confirmed that it is a licensed Porsche.
This should now hopefully open the flood doors for future licensed Porsche Transformers, including the potential for a Masterpiece Meister and Cliff.
This is indeed a historic moment for the brand. We've seen leaked copies of a Masterpiece Cliffjumper floating around for a while in various stages of development and it is my guess that it was meant to be officially announced sooner but they've held it back because of the ROTB film delay. I realise that these are separate lines and universes but there may be a deal in place to drop all the licensed Porsche products in a certain time window. Just a guess as I said, but anyway I'd like to hope we'll hear some official announcement about that Cliffjumper (and also a Jazz) very soon. :)
I'd say that this is likely, as TakaraTomy acquired the VW licence with MP21, which then allowed for Hasbro to make licensed VW Beetle Bumblebee toys for the Bumblebee movie and Netflix WFC figure. TakaraTomy also acquired the Lamborghini licence with MP12 Lambor, which has allowed for toys like AOE Lockdown, TLK Hot Rod, MP Sunstreaker/Cordon/Spin Out etc. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha_Phantom
The recent fan roundtable reported on by the American sites indicate that vehicle licenses tend to be relevant only for the specific figure and the year of release.
Having one licensed figure doesn't guarantee a license for another figure, but it does at least provide a relationship that can be used to hopefully allow for other releases.
Hopefully there will be enough goodwill towards Hasbro for the heavy promo in their movie that Hasbro can live off that for a few years.
I could be misremembering, but I’m pretty sure I read once that car manufacturers were PAYING for their vehicles to be used in the Michael Bay movies as promotions, rather than Hasbro going cap in hand saying “please may I use your car likeness”.
You'll probably find that it goes either way depending on the car/brand in question. In Porsche's case, I'd wager that Hasbro came to them as they've used an older Porsche for the movie not a current one (given that this film is set in the '90s there's not really any flexibility there). We also know that in the past Takara have tried to approach them for licensing and been rejected, so my guess is that a rather lucrative film and merchandising deal helped win Porsche over as opposed to "let us do this one Binaltech." I realise what was said above about nothing being guaranteed but I will still be very surprised if we don't see a sudden influx of Porsche toys over the next 12 months or so across various lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by reillyd
MP Cliffjumper is the MP i'm looking forward to the most, if it ever eventuates.
It'll be funny when Takara team shows the Porsche team what the MP Porsches look like, and the Porsche team asking what kind of car the chibi Cliffjumper is meant to represent. "Yeah, no. You can't put our logo on that thing. Make as many as you like, just don't put our name on it."
Very exciting news! Lots of hope for collectors.
On a personal level, MP Jazz and MP Skyfire were my two grail Transformers. Unfortunately for me, Skyfire was impressive, but a little too far in the toon column for my taste. No surprise of course. I have the Siege version as my Skyfire (the only non MP in my collection) and I'm happy. Despite other MP collectors hurling the insults at those who would commit the atrocity of using a Mainline figure in an MP collection. He fits well but my collection ends at MP-36.
MP Jazz, I expect to go the same way. I imagine he will be full toon style in line with other releases except MP Skids. Possible that they could choose to follow that figure and use a bit more detail but I would not expect so. Although, toon Jazz did not deviate from the toy design as much as others, so I may be pleasantly surprised, and like the design. If not, my Transformers collecting journey probably ends here. :)
Hopefully ROTB Mirage will sell well enough to convince Porsche to grant licence for future Transformers. The important thing is that this has now established a precedent. For decades, Porsche has refused to grant licence based on the grounds that they don't want their vehicles to be "affiliated with war." They have clearly shifted on this stance (much to every TF fan's delight). For decades we've lamented about how Porsche refused to grant licence. Now that Porsche are doing the right thing by TF fans, I reckon we should all consider buying a ROTB SS Mirage to reward them for this choice, and also to cast a "yes" vote for more future Porsche TFs. Because buying or not buying the toys is the best way that we can tell these companies about what we want; demand generates supply.
And for those who just don't care about Rise of the Beasts; fine... may I suggest that you consider buying a Mirage toy anyway, and then just immediately selling it to other collectors? Because there will certainly be collectors out there who will want to buy this toy but have difficulty finding one locally. So you'd be helping out a fellow collector plus encouraging Porsche to grant future licences, which in turn helps the entire fandom. :) I've bought toys before just to sell or even outright give it away, just to incentivise Hasbro to make more. :)
I reckon they could work out a similar deal as they did with Lamborghini with MP Sunstreaker. As I understand it, Lamborghini's licensing with the MP Sunstreaker mould had two conditions:Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Q
1. the bonnet cannot split
2. it must be packaged in factory standard/default Lamborghini Countach form, not the modified Super Tuning form that is iconic to Sunstreaker
So TakaraTOMY worked around this by giving MP Sunstreaker a non-separating panel that went over the feet to form a seamless bonnet, as well as engineering the rear half of the car to transform between the standard Countach and Super Tuning modes. In a similar vein, TakaraTOMY might engineer MP Cliff to transform between the standard Porsche 924 Turbo, into the deformed Choro-Q form that is iconic to Cliffjumper; and the toy would be packaged in factory standard mode, just as MP Sunstreaker, Cordon and Spin Out were. And you can expect the same from an MP Hubcap. And MP Cliff would have two spoilers; the normal sized one and the oversized one, and Hubcap would only come with the normal sized spoiler. This would admittedly be the more expensive method; one of the reasons why MP Sunstreaker is substantially dearer than MP Lambor is due to the addition of two variant vehicle modes (it's not the sole reason for the higher price tag, but it would definitely be a significant contributing factor).
Or they may have TakaraTOMY release two different MP Cliff toys. One only transforming into a normal Porsche 924 Turbo, then a later one transforming into a deformed Porsche 924; similar to how MP21 Bumblebee is a realistically proportioned VW Beetle, but MP45 Bumble is deformed. Volkswagen allowed TakaraTOMY to release a deformed Beetle, but they had to do the realistically proportioned Beetle first. This is the cheaper option; although arguably dearer if collectors are purchasing the character twice. The Sunstreaker option would offer better value, as collectors only need to buy the toy once.
Or... Porsche may just not be fussed about insisting on a realistically proportioned 924, and just allow TakaraTOMY to go right ahead with the deformed version. Who knows? Different licensors seem to have different conditions (e.g. VW clearly don't care about splitting the bonnet like Lamborghini or Corvette do).
With the current trend in MPs, I think MP Meister would surprise us in terms of how much it would deviate in order to be so slavishly cartoon-like. I mean, Optimus Prime's cartoon model doesn't fundamentally differ from the toy that much, and yet MP Convoy 3.0 just goes to a whole 'nuther level with complexity, achieving cartoon-likeness in places that a lot of people barely even noticed, if at all (e.g. Optimus Prime's stripes not existing in his truck mode etc.). Some of the key differences with Jazz's cartoon model include:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kranix
* No door-wings
* No shoulder wheels
* Bonnet-chest is less protruding
* Rear wheel sections are shrunken
* Spoilers fold down and are shrunken
etc.
These may seem like small things, but in terms of MP level toy engineering, they can make a significant difference. If they made the MP in the same vein as the early MP Cars (e.g. MP Datsuns), then yeah, it'd be pretty similar to the G1 toy. But in a post-MP Inferno era, I expect that it would be much more complex. I wouldn't mind if they went the Skids road and made it simpler again, but given how much more popular Jazz is, I reckon an MP Meister would be more like the more recent MP Cars (ex. Skids).
https://i.ibb.co/NKH9wcc/jazz-sunbow.jpg
And let's face it, MP consumers aren't exactly price sensitive. With MPs they can afford to throw in the money to make the toy more cartoon-like, and we fans will pay it. :)
The joys of a collector-centric line targeted at adults with disposable income. :cool:
P.S.: Not sure if TakaraTomy can legally get away with "MARTINII (sic) RACING." TakaraTomy did acquire the rights to use Alitalia's name for MP Wheeljack, which is why that toy has Alitalia spelt correctly as opposed to the G1 toy's deliberately misspelt "Alitalla." I'm not sure if they can get away with putting Martini's name on a toy, even misspelt. I don't think it would cause the same issues as Marlboro did for MP Exhaust. I reckon they could get away with a further deliberate misspelling, like SMARTINII RACING, and just let fans cut out the "S" on the stickers; similar to what they did for the Red Cross stickers on MP Ratchet. or just give us a sticker of the Martini logo with no text... or even have the red circle and black rectangle as separate stickers and let fans work out how to put them together. :)
I'd say that this is the case since we've seen that a deformed MP Cliffjumper already exists. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
It does differ by country too. This does look like Porsche Japan and America are onboard, which is a positive sign.
, as we've seen they can go in very different directions when laying down the law, eg with Alternator/Binaltech Windcharger and what could be allowed re his muffler gun thingie in ?Honda? form. It was fine in Japan but not allowed in the West.
Besides, we've technically already got a MP Jazz. He comes with Skyfire. :p
For me, I'm a hybrid MP fan. I don't need a toy version, or a toon version of Jazz. Masterpiece to me was the best version of the character. Simply being toon, does not make a Masterpiece to me, but neither do I want a revised version of the original toy. Some MP look better with more toon, some with a bit more toy.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
So, MP Jazz doesn't need to have Martini livery for example. It doesn't even have to use the wing doors for me to perhaps like it. However, I get the feeling if they remove all details and try and do some trickery to change the shape of the chest and legs etc to strive for pure tooness, I'll not be a fan. It may depend on what source they actually choose to base MP Jazz on, like the picture you use would be good but sometimes, he is drawn quite differently in the cartoon.
Still, I'm crossing my fingers that I'll like what they produce (should we get an MP Jazz). I'm open to it, I've always looked at every MP and tried to decide if I will like it, rather than say, it'll be toon, no way!
Considering that TakaraTOMY are the only ones doing MPs atm, I don't see this being an issue. And if it is, I'd just opt for the TakaraTOMY version. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Cat
Correct. And technically we do already have an MP Blaster and Twincast. ;) Not to mention MP Chip Chase --- COURAGE! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Cat
I totally agree, but the majority of fans prefer "'toon accuracy" (a term that I personally don't use), and of course TakaraTOMY are going to cater for what the majority want. :) Having said that, the higher level of cartoon likeness does help to further separate MPs from CHUGs, now that CHUGs have gotten so good that they're practically cheaper MPs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kranix
For anyone who wants to know where and how the whole 'war toys' thing came about, TFWiki cites a single TFArchive forum post from a user who was supposedly a Porsche employee who asked the marketing department about granting Hasbro/TakaraTOMY a licence to make a Porsche for the Alternators line.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Quote:
Finally I came around and called the licence department while being at work yesterday.
I told about that I wanted to know the trademark policy of our company towars toys, especially the Transformer toyline, as the BInaltech/Alternators are realistic sports cars and if Porsche has had talks with Takare and Hasbro.
The woman I got connected with wanted to know the background of my inquiry, so I told her about collecting sports car models and Transformers and that "we" were asking us if there would be a Porsche Alternator.
She said "No, because I do not want that" and the reason is, becasue Transformers are not worthy carrying the Porsche trademark. They are war machines and the toyline and in no way represent the lifestyle and ideas which Porsche represents.
By the way, do you have a source for Lamborghini not wanting the bonnet to split on a Countach? I had thought that the reason the bonnet lid wasn't made as a splitting item was to aid in creating narrower feet for the robot mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Also, this is the first I've read of Chevrolet not wanting the bonnet to split on a Corvette - Chevrolet were obviously ok with the bonnet splitting on the Corvette C5 Z06 for Alternators Tracks, the 2009 Stingray Concept for RotF Sideswipe, and the Corvette C3 for Masterpiece Tracks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
For anyone who doesn't know, the Diaclone toy that became Jazz is based on the Martini Racing-liveried Porsche 935 that won the 1976 6 Hours of Mugello, driven by Jochen Mass and Jacky Ickx.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kranix
Tomy has made models of cars (including Porsches) with Martini Racing livery in the past through their Tomica line of model cars, so this could help secure permission to recreate the Martini Racing livery for a possible Masterpiece Jazz. In fact, Shogo Hasui is quoted as saying that Tomy's relationship with car manufacturers was a big help in securing the rights to the Lancia Stratos to make Masterpiece Wheeljack, complete with the original Alitalia livery from the car from the 1977 Giro d'Italia.
I for one am hoping that a Masterpiece Jazz gets the Martini Racing livery. If that's the case, then later on there will be a more screen-accurate version of Jazz with a single dark blue stripe if MP-20+ is any indication.Quote:
Actually, thanks to Tomica brand, we can negotiate with many car manufacturers such as Fiat. This is a great result of merger (of Takara and Tomy). I had a Lancia Stratos Tomica when I was little. The style and colour scheme is very unique and hard to forget. It was my favourite but as I was young, I don't think I remembered the name.
I would love to see a, detailed, realistic, full livery MP Jazz. He would be something very special. I think it unlikely, though. So, I need to keep my expectations in check.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus
It would be very cool if they could follow the MP Wheeljack scenario, where they release the detailed version and then the toon + later. However, I expect that since the vast majority of collections are on the toon train, it wouldn't make business sense. Jazz would surely be designed to look as toon as possible from the outset, then possibly we could see them try and make a revised toy like version but really we have only seen that happen with MP-36 Megatron. I think that was a Hasbro Asia initiative too. Jazz has quite a few alternatives, like G2, Stepper etc. No need to do the same.
The one unknown is what Porsche may want. They may want to licence a more real life accurate Porsche alt mode. I was always surprised that Takara were able to get that + version of Wheeljack through. A real life Jazz would look so perfect next to my original MP Wheeljack though!
I do not. It's something that I've heard several people say and seems plausible given that we've never had a post-G1 Sunstreaker with splitting bonnet, and that TakaraTOMY went through extra effort to avoid having the bonnet cover split. It does create narrower feet, but they could have also had the bonnet split and have some of the bonnet panels fold in. Admittedly this is something that I cannot conclusively prove, but does seem "plausible."Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus
Oops, my bad. I meant to say that VW and Corvette don't care about their bonnets splitting like Lamborghini seem to do. Mea culpa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnus
But I don't want a Porsche Cliffjumper MP.... I want a Chibi Cliffjumper MP.
For Takara Tomy, the ideal outcome would be a chibi Cliffjumper MP that is Porsche licensed, just like they did with MP-45 Bumblebee. So you'll still get what you want if the licensing goes through, but it might take a while longer to get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by KELPIE
Wasn't the one we've seen already chibi CJ?Quote:
Originally Posted by KELPIE
Yep. I don't know why people are still speculating about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat
Because the chibi one(s) we've seen may not be official Takara product, and even if made by Takara, that doesn't mean they will/can be released.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha_Phantom
Having said that, i think you guys are right. Based on the design and engineering, those look like an official product, and will be released as an MP. But with a chibi MP Cliffjumper being my most anticipated MP, i just don't want to put my hopes up only for it to be dashed.
I'd be utterly amazed if it turns out not to be an official Takara product, given that we've seen a few copies in various stages of development from different leakers. Also no 3P or KO company have come forward to claim ownership either. If it is a hoax then it's a very well coordinated hoax.Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Q
I do take your point that even if it's legit it still may not be released, but the recent Superbowl trailer has got me feeling pretty confident.
OK, that's a cryptic comment. Is that a reference to the upcoming but long delayed THE FLASH film? I'm really looking forward to it. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Tha_Phantom
Haha, nah, I'm only here to discuss Transformers. This is what I was referring to:Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Q
https://youtu.be/qXBsJW4LOCQ
Yes, that makes more sense. :D Fingers crossed for official news about MP Cliffjumper and Hubcap before the full set of the next MPG is released. LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Tha_Phantom
Yeah I'd be amazed if it's a hoax. It screams TakTom MP design. FansToys did debut their own Masterpiece Cliffjumper around the time these pics debuted, but they're clearly very different, and it's very clear which is FansToys's style and which one really does appear to be perfectly done in the vein of an official MP. It's simply too good. And the idea that no 3rd party group would come forward and claim this sculpt that has more interest than FansToys, considered the king of third-party Masterpieces, is absurd, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tha_Phantom
This really is a case of hearing hooves and advising you not to think zebras first. It simply has to be legit, or I'll eat a hat.
I think this may be the reason for current speculation. Porsche may not permit TakaraTOMY to release an MP Cliff as a deformed 924 Turbo. After all, MP-21 Bumble(bee) was released with a realistically proportioned Volkswagen Beetle Type-1, and it was half a decade later that TakaraTOMY released MP-45 Bumble as a super deformed Beetle.Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Q
So it depends on what terms/conditions Porsche decide to impose. We may end up with:
* immediate release of the deformed 924 Turbo, as per the prototype
* release of undeformed 924 Turbo, à la MP-21's VW Beetle
* Cliff with a Porsche mode that can transform between being deformed and undeformed, with the toy packaged in undeformed 924 mode, à la MP Sunstreaker/Cordon/Spin-Out's standard/Super Tuning Lamborghini Countach mode.
So yeah, having the Porsche licence is no guarantee that they can do a deformed Porsche 924 Turbo Cliff. But it would mean that they can do an MP Cliff, which in my books is already a massive win. I'm honestly not fussed if they do Cliff as a deformed or undeformed 924. I'm perfectly happy with MP-21 and skipped MP-45; but I understand that for the majority who prefer these toys to look just like the cartoon models, you're gonna want the deformed vehicle mode. But it's not as if the undeformed Beetle hurt MP-21 sales. :p
If we get an MP Cliffjumper with chibi alt mode, it'll be the first licensed chibi Porsche that Tomy has released. Even though Tomy has released many Porsches in their Tomica scaled (e.g. 1/64 scale) model lines, Tomy has not released Porsches through their chibi Choro-Q line in 2 decades. Takara did release a few Choro-Q 'Porsches' in the 80s, but I don't think those were licensed (back then, the Diaclone cars and original G1 releases weren't licensed either, AFAIK).Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
You're right, those were all unlicensed back then. Iirc the first toy that required a license was Sideburn from RID, and that's the way things have been since.Quote:
Originally Posted by High_Q
It's quite amazing to think it took a little over 15 years of Transformers before car licenses started being acquired. Especially given the accuracy of some alt modes in early G1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat
Yeah, Takara obtained the licence in order to be able to display the Dodge logo on Speedbreaker's bonnet. But Car Robot inspired Binaltech, and BT/Alternators was the first TF toy line where every single toy released had an officially licensed vehicle mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cat
And as most people here probably already know, Takara did make a prototype Porsche BT Meister, but Porsche refused to grant licence which is why BT Meister ended up being a Mazda RX-8; with the red "Zoom-Zoom" version also released as part of the licensing deal. And Tracks had to be released in yellow first as per Corvette's insistence.