Lost Molds?

I've heard a few times in my recent return to collecting that there was an infamous fire at some Takara facility (or something like that) that resulted in the loss of some very key molds, thus greatly reducing the odds of them ever being reissued. I've tried to find more info at the wiki unsuccessfully. Can anyone point me in the right direction for more info and/or identify which molds are reputed to have been lost?

I've heard (among others I can't recall) that the Dinobots and G1 Devastator are lost.

By the end of the year if we don't have a Devastator reissue i will be very surprised as he is in the new TF movie and that's how the Encore line started.
I also believe Skids will be reissued soon as will Sideswipe.

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Originally Posted by sideswipes brother

By the end of the year if we don't have a Devastator reissue i will be very surprised as he is in the new TF movie and that's how the Encore line started.

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That's the exact discussion some friends and I were having when someone pointed out the mold wasn't available. I'd be extremely surprised and disappointed.

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Originally Posted by jaydisc

Can anyone point me in the right direction for more info and/or identify which molds are reputed to have been lost?

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Mirage, Wheeljack and Sunstreaker's moulds have been specifically identified as too damaged or destroyed to be worth reissuing.

Expanding on what Sky Shadow said...

Confirmed to be lost:
- Grimlock
- Slag
- Sludge
- Snarl
- Swoop
- Mirage

Rumored to be lost:
- Original Rattrap
- Sunstreaker
- Constructicons

Broken moulds
- Soundwave (they retool Soundblaster to reissue him now)
- Wheeljack

Source: Moulds page on TF wiki

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Originally Posted by Adzma

Expanding on what Sky Shadow said...

Confirmed to be lost:
- Grimlock
- Slag
- Sludge
- Snarl
- Swoop
- Mirage

Rumored to be lost:
- Original Rattrap
- Sunstreaker
- Constructicons

Broken moulds
- Soundwave (they retool Soundblaster to reissue him now)
- Wheeljack

Source: Moulds page on TF wiki

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Thanks for those details. I was just about to ask if anyone knew what moulds were confirmed to be lost or destroyed, lol.

The Encore line has proven to me that I was right to have faith in the TF gods! :D

People said Omega Supreme and Metroplex would never get reissued! But they were wrong! I have a dream... I believe one day we WILL see the Constructicons reissued! We WILL see Grimlock reissued! We WILL see Shockwave reissued! I have a dream!

preach it Robzy!

Thanks, this was exactly what I was hoping for.

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Originally Posted by Adzma

Source: Moulds page on TF wiki

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This is the page I was looking for. I tried searching all sorts of things but all the terms were too generic.

I don't know the english term to describe this laxness in both management and personnel with regards in saving the molds as it is part of their business, but in Filo all I can say is these people are so "BURARA". :D:p

I thought the Constructicons werent lost molds before since they made them during G2. I just thought the reason they didn't want to reissue them is because Hastak don't wanna compete with the tons of KO's that were part of the first wave that proliferated the market.

Wonder what process (red tape, tax) and how much monetary value would it take for them (HasTakTom) to retromold these lost ones, since the KOers seem to be able to do so with ease? They did it for Jazz the first time didn't they? Surely with all the figures floating around (KO and otherwise) still it's not that hard for a global toy mega company to achieve what a garage KOer can....

They keep saying to us its expensive to do a remold, but then how much of this is true and how much is all just because were too lazy to do so and are just as Cobra commander puts it...

"Lies, Lies! Insubstantiated fantasies, LIIEEESssss"

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Originally Posted by liegeprime

I thought the Constructicons werent lost molds before since they made them during G2. I just thought the reason they didn't want to reissue them is because Hastak don't wanna compete with the tons of KO's that were part of the first wave that proliferated the market.

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Yeah, Takara said this back in 2000-2001.

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Originally Posted by liegeprime

Wonder what process (red tape, tax) and how much monetary value would it take for them (HasTakTom) to retromold these lost ones, since the KOers seem to be able to do so with ease? They did it for Jazz the first time didn't they? Surely with all the figures floating around (KO and otherwise) still it's not that hard for a global toy mega company to achieve what a garage KOer can....

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Convoy was reconstructed from an armless G2 Prime mould (and that hideously expensive according to Takara), Jazz was recast from the G2 mould and Soundwave was recast from a retooled Soundblaster mould.

Afaik there's never been a reissue made from a completely rebuilt lost mould. And the only reissue made from a broken mould was Convoy - and we know that HasTak continue to milk that mould for all it's worth!

Remember that bootleggers are working under completely different conditions to HasTak - it is an unfair playing ground. I don't think it's fair to compare HasTak with illegal bootleggers.

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Originally Posted by liegeprime

They keep saying to us its expensive to do a remold, but then how much of this is true and how much is all just because were too lazy to do so and are just as Cobra commander puts it...

"Lies, Lies! Insubstantiated fantasies, LIIEEESssss"

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*throws more spores at your face* :p

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Originally Posted by liegeprime

Wonder what process (red tape, tax) and how much monetary value would it take for them (HasTakTom) to retromold these lost ones, since the KOers seem to be able to do so with ease?

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From the bottom of the moulds page:

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Originally Posted by Transformers Wiki

Many of the current bootlegs of Generation 1 toys are reverse-engineered from existing toys; instead of stealing or copying the original toy's mold, the bootleggers cut new molds based on the toys themselves - creating a copy of a copy.

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I suppose you could call it effective but the problem is you'd never be able to get a perfect size so in theory the parts wouldn't fit together as well as professional moulds. I do agree that Hasbro and TakTom should at least repair someone like Wheeljack since he's one of the original Autobots and a character who actually had meaning, not like those lazy 1985 characters who just showed up out of no where and were like, "Sup?" :p Replacing lost moulds on the other hand wouldn't be, as Hasbro and TakTom would put it, economically viable.

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Originally Posted by Adzma

I do agree that Hasbro and TakTom should at least repair someone like Wheeljack since he's one of the original Autobots and a character who actually had meaning, not like those lazy 1985 characters who just showed up out of no where and were like, "Sup?" :p Replacing lost moulds on the other hand wouldn't be, as Hasbro and TakTom would put it, economically viable.

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I find it interesting that the three final 'economically unviable' Autobot cars are three without canonical remoulds. With the exception of Hound, Skids and Tracks, all the other Autobot cars that have already been done were inherently more economically viable than these ones, since they could be used for more than one original 1984-1988 G1 character.

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Originally Posted by Adzma

I do agree that Hasbro and TakTom should at least repair someone like Wheeljack since he's one of the original Autobots and a character who actually had meaning, not like those lazy 1985 characters who just showed up out of no where and were like, "Sup?"

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To date the only reissue that's ever been made from a formerly broken mould that had to be partially reconstructed was Convoy/Optimus Prime. And the fact that HasTak has reissued this mould 6+ times shows that they really are trying to get as much bang for their buck for their trouble. With a character as popular and iconic as Optimus Prime such an effort could be justified, but I'm not sure if Wheeljack would sell as well to justify the expense.

I'm quite sure that Takara would have reissued Wheeljack if they thought it was viable for them to do so.

IMO if they can reissue Omega, Skylinx etc then they can bring back Sunstreaker, dinobots and the like. Just do it Takara....just do IT!!!
I dont care how out of pocket you are...you are here to please me...ME!!

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Originally Posted by sideswipes brother

IMO if they can reissue Omega, Skylinx etc then they can bring back Sunstreaker, dinobots and the like.

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The Omega Supreme and Skylynx moulds weren't lost, destroyed or damaged like Sunstreaker, the Dinobots etc. The only thing that prevented Takara from reissuing them before was the fact that they're non-Takara moulds, they're owned by ToyBox, which was acquired by Tomy. Since Takara merged with Tomy they acquired the rights to these moulds and thus were able to reissue them.

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Originally Posted by sideswipes brother

Just do it Takara....just do IT!!!
I dont care how out of pocket you are...you are here to please me...ME!!

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Of course. TakaraTOMY and Hasbro employees absolutely don't need to make money or have families to feed. </sarcasm>

Having some experience in the plastics moulding industry, I know that you need really durable (reeeally expensive) moulds/tools to produce the hundreds of thousands of plastic parts Takara/Hasbro need to produce, compared to the couple of thousand that the bootleggers make (which are produced with much cheaper, short-lived moulds/tools, that they can replace cheaply as they are damaged/broken).

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Of course. TakaraTOMY and Hasbro employees absolutely don't need to make money or have families to feed. </sarcasm>

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As per CC "Hogwash!"
:p:p and from an infamous gal "let them eat cakes" :D

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

*throws more spores at your face* :p

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Waasssss oncccce aaa maaaaaannnnn!!!

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Originally Posted by griffin

Having some experience in the plastics moulding industry, I know that you need really durable (reeeally expensive) moulds/tools to produce the hundreds of thousands of plastic parts Takara/Hasbro need to produce, compared to the couple of thousand that the bootleggers make (which are produced with much cheaper, short-lived moulds/tools, that they can replace cheaply as they are damaged/broken).

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But, these reissues arent mass released are they? By that i mean that i heard they only produced about 10,000 per reissue.

They're mass released. The production run is smaller than mainstream TFs like Animated or the movie toys, but it's still a mass production. It's by no means a limited production like what HasTak do for exclusives (e.g.: conventions, e-Hobby etc.), and even then, these exclusives are typically repaints/retools of recently produced moulds.

And there have been numerous times when reissues have even shelf-warmed. A classic example was God Ginrai... I don't know about Toowoomba, but here in Sydney that toy shelfwarmed really badly at import stores. At the end prices were slashed to $20 in an effort to clear dead stock! The Micromaster gestalt reissues also moved slowly, as did some TFC reissues... I remember seeing prices of some TFC reissues being reduced to $65. And there have been reports of Encore Omega Supreme and Metroplex shelf-warming too.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

And there have been numerous times when reissues have even shelf-warmed. A classic example was God Ginrai... I don't know about Toowoomba, but here in Sydney that toy shelfwarmed really badly at import stores. At the end prices were slashed to $20 in an effort to clear dead stock!

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Wow, when was this roughly (year)? I wouldnt have mind to buy extra's of God Ginrai! mebbe 2-4 more just to keep for future gifts!

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

And there have been reports of Encore Omega Supreme and Metroplex shelf-warming too.

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Aww... those guys deserve as much love as the next Transformer. :(

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Originally Posted by liegeprime

Wow, when was this roughly (year)? I wouldnt have mind to buy extra's of God Ginrai! mebbe 2-4 more just to keep for future gifts!

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God Ginrai came out in 2001 and by 2002-03 they'd slashed the prices down to $20 a pop. And even at that super-cheap price they still shelfwarmed!! It was like they could not even give God Ginrai away!

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Originally Posted by Adzma

Aww... those guys deserve as much love as the next Transformer. :(

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Yeah, but they're expensive... meaning that a lot of people wouldn't get them if they didn't really need too. I know that was the case with me and Omega Supreme... sure, the new face was nice, but after kup helped me fix my original G1 Omega Supreme* I just didn't have the urge to go splash out on getting a reissue. I got Metroplex because my original Metroplex is missing his missiles and Scamper's gun - and the pure chrome and rubber tyres helped too. I did get Gadep ("Omega Sentinel") so I do own a version of the reissue Omega Supreme mould. And even just getting Metroplex and Gadep was really really expensive for me! I'm glad I didn't get Encore Omega Supreme - there's just no way I could've afforded it.

I generally only get reissues if my original G1 version is significantly incomplete or damaged, or if I don't already have the toy... which is uncommon, it's usually the former.

With the Aussie Dollar at its current rate I'm severely cutting back on my imports too.

P.S.: One neat thing about getting reissues (and variants in general) is that it allows me to have "doubles" and make neat shots like these:

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...c_tftm0004.jpg <-3rd panel, I used my original & Encore Ironhide to create 'transformation'

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...c_tftm0012.jpg <-used my original & TFC Hot Rod for montage and transformation effects

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...c_tftm0015.jpg <-used original & reissue Shrapnel and original metal, plastic & reissue Kup for montage and transformation

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...c_tftm0016.jpg <-look at Autobot City, it's my original and Encore Metroplexi back to back! Here's a close up.

:D
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*kup fixed my G1 Omega Supreme's motor using nothing more than glue and sandpaper! He is like freakin' MacGuyver when it comes to fixing TFs!! Thanks kup!!! :D

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

With the Aussie Dollar at its current rate I'm severely cutting back on my imports too.

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Yeah I've been trying to import as much goods as possible from the UK as our dollar hasn't fluctuated with GBP so much as the US dollar.

I get the feeling that the original Dinobot mold is likely to be broken. Why? Look at how many repaints it got!

In no particular order:

-First, Dinobot.
-Grimlock
-Dinobot Grimlock
-Fox Kids!Dinobot
-10th Anniversary Dinobot
-Telemocha Dinobot
-Remolded into Hardhead...
-...who was then redecoed as Dinotron.

So that's EIGHT uses of the mold. It's probably a pile of dust by now.

Considering I have four different versions of the Dinobot mould, I can't say I really care. :p With two reissues in recent years there's no excuse for anyone who wants a Dinobot toy to not have one by now. :) It's an entirely different story from say G1 Mirage who's never been reissued ever.

It would be really cool if TakaraTomy decided to set up a lost mould recovery program where fans can vote for their most desired mould to be repaired, and once a candidate has been chosen, TakTom open up donations where by we as fans can fork over our hard earned cash to return Mirage, Wheeljack, the Dinobots etc. to the land of the living! It saves TakTom from the monetary issues and the fans get their moulds back. :) Think about, for all intents and purposes lets assume there are 10,000 fans worldwide and they each donate $1 USD, that's $10,000 right there.

I find this whole lost/destroyed/stolen mold thing to be quite interesting. I don't know how much it would cost to build new molds, but surely it would be profitable to reissue the 5 G1 dinobots? I would imagine that these would be snapped up faster then they could roll off the production line... regardless of RRP!
But part of me also likes the fact that the G1 Dinos will never be remade. All that exist in the world right now, will be all that will ever exist. (As owner of all 5, is that elitist of me?) Kind of makes them a bit special. IMHO.

Mind you, I would really like to own a G1 Mirage again...

klystron, I guess it comes down to how many ways you can redo the mould. Prime is being reissued over and over, so TT have no trouble recovering the costs there.

Some toys like (say) Prowl have repaint potential as Bluestreak and Smokescreen.

I'm not sure how they'd convince us to all buy three repaints of Snarl. As awesome as they may be, I can't say I'd grab repaints of the Dinobots. Yes, there are the Diaclone colours, but for every fan who buys the blue-chested Swoop, there'll be 8 who are happy with only the red one.

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Originally Posted by dirge

klystron, I guess it comes down to how many ways you can redo the mould.

Some toys like (say) Prowl have repaint potential as Bluestreak and Smokescreen.

I'm not sure how they'd convince us to all buy three repaints of Snarl. As awesome as they may be, I can't say I'd grab repaints of the Dinobots. Yes, there are the Diaclone colours, but for every fan who buys the blue-chested Swoop, there'll be 8 who are happy with only the red one.

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Plus the Dinobots aren't as popular in Japan as they are in Western countries which is something TakTom would take into consideration.

No repaints - just reissue/encore G1 specs. I'd still buy 5 new ones.

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Originally Posted by Adzma

Plus the Dinobots aren't as popular in Japan as they are in Western countries which is something TakTom would take into consideration.

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Interesting. I didn't know that.

I reccon i heardthat Grimlock was comic relief in Jap G1.

As much as he was in the post Season 2 G1 cartoon. (-_-)