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I honestly don't see the point of this.
http://i56.tinypic.com/2nroupk.jpg
Usually, these "fan companies" stick to doing stuff Hasbro/TakaraTomy are unable or are unlikely to make, but official Classics-equivalent Soundwaves are available on the market in one form or other. Why compete with the real thing?
I have to agree. This is on the redundant.
I also agree that the 3rd parties should be there to provide fans with what Hasbro is unwilling/unable to do. This is just an attempt to profit on another company's popular character.
I am afraid that with this release that company and I-Gear are more into this for a cheap attempt at profiteering on the 3rd party 'gold rush' than doing anything original or worthwhile.
Agreed,
I didn't mind the Not-Frenzy and Not-Rumble figures they did, but this I refuse to buy out of principal and the fact that only Hasbro and/or Taker-Tomy can make figures of my favourite character that are worthy of my money.
At least the colours of these 3rd Party companies are coming through and you can quite clearly tell who is purely riding on the back of others.
I bought the SDCC 25th Anniversary Soundwave and found it to be lacking... especially with the inferior head mold and knees that cant bend backwards
its a nice toy but i prefer updated versions of the g1 originals like mirage and hound - those are examples of engineering beauty.
as for classics equivalents... movie soundwave is a satelite and cybertronian soundwave doesnt change into a music player/thing like in the game credits.
which is somewhat disappointing.
from the picture, soundwave is holding a shotgun and has a tank cannon or rifle on his back with something else behind his waist. so im intrigued as to what his alt mode will be.
the i-gear is true. they took mp prime and just made it smaller and have made several versions.
-original
-clear
-grey
-black
-white
-purple (evil)
-silver
-gold
so yeah i dont like that about i-gear.
Perfect Effect at least are making accessories for existing figures except this one now. though i hope at least its compatible with the shadow warrior and (not) frenzy/rumble.
i like new interesting products, so i'll reserve judgement.
You can actually get WFC Cybertronian Soundwave in his faux music player mode with some imagination. Saw it on a Japanese image board. Doesn't look exactly like the game, but the game thing was just made up anyway.
Also, there's Music Label Soundwave, who is a pretty good Soundwave for your Classics-y collection.
this does definately stray beyond the iffy homages they made into blatant copyright infringement. That said, I'd like to see how this turns out as I've been tempted to buy PP-O1R&F and have wanted a decent Soundwave for my classics shelf. Thus far Titantium Soundwave is filling the bill.
This is going beyond it I think. I want to see actual pictures, but I don't think they should be dong this figure.
ML Soundwave fits it very well with the Classics figures, probably the best we are going to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by FFN
Do we really need anymore soundwave?
Attachment 2717
Yes!! You can never have enough soundwaves and minions. ML w/reprolabels is my fav.
+1 ML soundwave :)
That's the thing - we already have plenty of real Soundwaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaRNiV8L PRiME
The point of these so-called "fan toys" is to make stuff Hasbro/TakaraTomy don't or cannot make. They're already in a legally grey area, no need to start competing with Hasbro directly with the same characters and rise their ire.
I think it's great. I'm happy to buy if it looks good and is of solid quality.
I'm happy if it's a War Within styled toy. Would love it if an entire line were done.
I think moves like that are going to end up spoiling it for everyone. The fan companies should not be trying to cut into Hasbro's sales.Quote:
Originally Posted by FFN
I'm really sorry here but have you really thought through the logic of your argument?Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
How does a fan company know it's not cutting into Hasbro's profit? How do you or they know exactly what Hasbro/Takara are planning? You don't. Hasbro/Takara have said consistently that it takes them 2 years to plan ahead and go through a production processs. Just b/c you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't being planned. So it's awfully presumptuous that you or the fan companies somehow "know" what is going to cut into Hasbro's sales, don't you think?
The moment custom producers make something they are stealing away an opportunity that Hasbro/Takara could have to make a product. Whether they choose to make it or not doesn't matter. Don't you think Defender or the Fansproject Junkion are exampels of this? Even the rumoured Broadside? I don't have a problem buying any of the custom stuff but it does frustrate me that there can be such hypocrisy about it.
It's all great to accept it if its cool to you but don't occupy some superior moral highground if it doesn't; b/c most likely you'll find it'll crumble from underneath you when you discover the fragile logic that your argument really rests on is making you feel good about yourself even though you've bought stuff that stole from someone else.
Just accept that custom houses make good product that we do like and those that we don't, no need to judge anyone or anything as if you are morally superior.
What? All of them? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
I am not going to get into an argument with you as it will just go in loops like it has happened in the past. You have a form of thinking and reasoning that is too different to mine.
Just note that I don't appreciate you coming in and calling people hypocrites just because we don't conform to your way of looking at things.
I will say however that FP's Collector is a different situation altogether than this Soundwave. Collector was announced about a year ago, perhaps more and the intention was to provide something that Hasbro was apparently not going to do.
How many Soundwaves has there been? Look at Music Label, that's been around for a couple of years now and how many Soundwaves after that?
Honestly, the only way I can see a 3rd party product eating into Hasbro's profits is if Hasbro's product is by far inferior than a 3rd party product. In regards to Wreck-Gar, I will buy 2 of Hasbro's even if the other one looks better. I like the look of the Hasbro one. And I'll probably buy the other one if it looks good enough.
I think in alot of cases, some of these 3rd party upgrades increase Hasbro sales, easy example being Bruticus. Every store started selling out of Bruticus so they could get the upgrade to enhance what was a pretty bad figure. In the end, Hasbro was selling there stock, which is their bottom line. I would not have bought Bruticus had it not been for the upgrade.
For products like Springer, that's a different story. They made a better toy than what was given by Hasbro. I turned to paying for Defender over Springer.
Unfortunately these products fall into grey areas, it's not so black and white anymore. Good or bad.
But in any case, it comes down to personal choice whether you buy 3rd party products or not.
Yeah, it's not black or white. A lot of the fan stuff falls in grey areas but this Soundwave is certainly within a very dark shade of grey IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AZRAEL1
The upgrades and accessory kits ends up benefiting both parties which is good for all. I wonder how many of that 3-pack set with Classics Rodimus they are now selling due to Protector.
Personally, I don't see the 'eating into profit' argument as being necessary, because in my view, collectors make up a fraction of a percentage of HasTakTom's sales - the only way that third party companies could possibly affect HasTakTom's profit is if parents and children start buying more 3rd party products than official ones and I personally would debate whether parents and kids are even aware of the existence of third party products.
That being said, there is absolutely no reason for any third party company to blatantly infringe on another's IP, Fansproject are definitely in the grey zone but IMO this figure is well within the red no matter how good it is because this is blatantly Soundwave.
Fansproject have been lucky because they either produce non-complete figures (upgrade kits) or complete figures with enough differences that they don't necessarily actually resemble HasTakTom's IPs, repaint FP stuff (say Defender or Munitioner etc.) and I put it to you that if they didn't aim them at TF collectors and Fans then you'd never pick their homages.
I-Gear have clearly shown a complete disregard for copyright when it comes to distributing infringing products, I just hope that Perfect Effect, who show quite a bit of promise IMO, aren't falling in with the wrong crowd.
I guess we cant really be judgemental until it actually comes out and we see what it actually looks like, cos as far as my concern it would probably be just like a the non-springer FP created and probably even have a different look into it. Not to point fingers but people bought the valykrie and its third party what if hasbro decided to create different arcees for different transformers line? since youve bought that already wouldnt that mean your cutting into HASBRO profit? its just the other way around this time
Not really, I don't see it that way. I wanted a G1 Arcee, Hasbro wasn't providing one. If it wasn't for the 3rd party I simply wouldn't have gotten one at all. This Soundwave is clearly G1 even if re-designed, and we already had a fair few new 'G1' Soundwave toys from Has-Tak-Tom negating the 'for fans' reason for bringing this out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptic_Optic
I believe they are just trying to ride the popularity of an existing character which is currently selling official toys rather than providing something that fans would appreciate and Hasbro is unlikely/unwilling to do, hence my trying to cut-in comment.
I see, I guess everyone has different views about this... so im not goin to go forward and cont for an arugument since we all love tf and i see both side point of view. In my opinion I dont think this wouldnt affect Hastak profit. But if this figure is badass cool disregard who made it i will definetely buy it. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by kup
So if someone is making inferior use of their land, you'd go and steal a bit of it and put to better use? If someone has a brilliant idea at work, you steal it from them and profit from them?Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AZRAEL1
I think superior/inferior are important to us as fans of product but we shouldn't confuse quality with trying to uphold some fragile moral highground.
I completely agree. But my many gripe is that we often have the same characters jumping out and down and crying wolf over how unjust or dirty some third party company is being.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AZRAEL1
It frustrates me to absolutely no end. Don't go whining about the practice when you support the very same practice that allows it to exist in the first place.
Fact is, Fansproject stuff, would you, me or anyone buy if it was not TF related? I'd suspect not. And therein lies the answer, we are only willing to support third party if it fills a gap in our collection/wants. That's a very convenient truth.
Frenzy/Rumble? Laserbeak? Bruticus? Springer? Proposed Broadside and Wreckgar?
It's so presumptous don't you think that you somehow know someone's situation is different? Do you really, Kup? Do you really know what Hasbro/Takara have in their 2-3 year plans? Most organisations plan and strategise for a minimum of 5 years ahead. As a simple fan, you might not realise this but for those who have some business savvy would realise this. You don't know if Hasbro/Takara have planned for this so I think it's awfully disingenuous to play the "ignorance is bliss" card.Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
A way of thinking that allows you to judge what products are right and what products are morally wrong? I'm not.so sure either of us are in a very good position to do that b/c we buy and support third party products. I have no problem with you judging the quality of the product. Thats okay. Or even if you think there's enough Soundwaves.
But what I would appreciate is less of this high and mighty judgement on what is an "evil against fandom" third party item and what is a "good for mankind" third party item.
I totally agree with your sentiment here. What we should do is focus on if we think its cool or not as a product.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptic_Optic
Not trying to judge it from some sort of moral vantage point that none of us are fit to stand on when we start buying third party items.
Please keep the discussion on topic, by discussing the look, theme, purpose or even value of this item.
Comments/assumptions about things that can't be proven one way or the other, should be avoided.
And criticism of the legality/morality of unauthorised products probably should be left to those who don't buy *any* of them. (which rules me out...)
"As a Simple fan" eh? So what are you, the superior aristocratic fan?Quote:
As a simple fan, you might not realise this but for those who have some business savvy would realise this. You don't know if Hasbro/Takara have planned for this so I think it's awfully disingenuous to play the "ignorance is bliss" card.
Thanks for making yourself very clear to me.
I think this Soundwave will Rock! lets hope the quality of material is good :D
I think we should drop the moral posturing, and leave it as we agree to disagree.
Back to the topic at hand, if it looks good, I'll probably buy it. I love Soundwave, so any figures that Hasbro release (that I like) I will buy anyhow, so this figure won't affect Hasbro getting money from me.
i like the way you think brother disregard, soundwave is and always will be superior! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AZRAEL1
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AZRAEL1
Agreed :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptic_Optic
Attachment 2720
My opinion, just sayin' ;)
EXCELLENT! I like that photo just gave me a brainstorm! :D il post photos :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Hursticon
I'll buy it if its good. it doesnt stop me from buying tt/hasbro. i buy what i like and not most of those ugly ass bayformers.
I'm wondering if this soundwave will be a tank. the wfc cybertronian soundwave has a decent alt mode so im looking forward to seeing what this will be.
I personally thought it was just add-ons for the WFC Soundwave but from the remarks in this topic... I have to assume no.
Personaly I'm interested in this Not Soundwave. There is still no offical generations Soundwave other than the reissue of the G1 toy who just does not fit in astheticly with the rest of the toys, the same is true of Music Label, and Cybertronian Soundwave they still look different to the main Generations/Classic line.
Still I'll wait till I see som pics of what they are offering, but I am keen for a classics styled Soundwave, and classics style is still different to G1.
Also depends on what the quality is like too, I've yet to play with a Perfect Effect toy so I'm still wary.
Somewhat besides the main point, but the name "Perfect Effect" reeks of effort IMO. These guys must've sat down and thought good and hard before coming up with that. Me no likey. The whoopmeister is displeased.
Looking forward to seeing what he turns into. Looks like a tank barrel on the back, but that would be strange for SW. Maybe it is an antenna for a walky-talky or something?
Go easy Whoopster :), perhaps it makes more sense to another culture.Quote:
Originally Posted by canofwhoopass_87
Oooooh. Ruled out, eh? What did you finally cave in for? You wouldn't touch my FansProject Bruticus on Sunday :DQuote:
Originally Posted by griffin
Personally, I think we can lose the legality/morality discussions entirely. Our own legal experts say it's gray at best and I personally fail to see how discussing morality is all that different from religion and politics, two banned topics.
One of the reasons many members seemed to initially support the segregation of unauthorized products was so that those not interested, were not forced to interact. Thus, it is my opinion that if you have issues with anything in this section... you should simply GTFO.