In the cartoons, how many Decepticons/Predacons have the Autobots/Maximals killed?

I was thinking about how in the Bayverse the Autobots kill named Decepticons all the time, but in the cartoons when we get a death it's normally an Autobot getting killed and the closest I can remember to Bots killing Cons (aside from cannon fodder) is the Cons getting severely damaged in the '86 movie and then saved by Unicron who reformatted them into Galvatron and his cronies.

So outside of un-named Insecticons, Sweeps, Vehicons, etc, how many Decepticons have actually been killed by Autobots/Maximals over the years in cartoons?

Soundwave, but then he gets rebuilt into SoundBlaster, so I dunno if that counts.

Not a lot.

Depending on how you look at it, in the movie they ended the lives of Megatron, Thundercracker, Skywarp and the Insecticons. Kinda.

In Beast Wars the Maximals blew up Ravage and Rampage's death was kinda suicide-by-cop.

In the Japanese and Japanese translated shows. Some, some that didn't make the translation and some that didn't stick (like the Soundwave example). Shockwave in Energon springs to mind, I think they maybe retcones his repaint from a brother to the same character.

Most of the other shows tend to have defeated Decepticons rather than dead ones. What with their target audience of children.

Except maybe RescueBots if their Blades is anything like his counterparts ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by liegeprime

Soundwave, but then he gets rebuilt into SoundBlaster, so I dunno if that counts.

---

I was thinking Hasbro cartoons, but that's something to keep in mind.

Predaking, Menasor and all the Decepticon combiner generals definitely die by the hands of Dai Atlus in Zone.

Wait who killed Starscream in transformers animated?

And I understand why you asked cartoons, because those movie deaths were really dark and heavy

I still maintain it was Insecticon clones that died in the movie as the Insecticons show up a couple of times in Season 3 and Shrapnel even had a line in Fight or Flee.

The Autobots killed a bunch of Insecticon clones in that Ep in S2 where the Protectobots show up for the first time as well.

Megatron killed Starscream in Animated but then Proel used mystic stuff to pull all the Allspark shards together in S3 which pulled it out of Screamers head and re-killed him so I guess that counts as an Autobot committing manslaughter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy

Predaking, Menasor and all the Decepticon combiner generals definitely die by the hands of Dai Atlus in Zone.

---

^This. :) I find it interesting that Star Sabre and Dai Atlas have somewhat swapped ethical outlooks between their G1 and IDW counterparts.

G1 Star Sabre = benign altruist, IDW Star Sabre = ruthless consequentialist
G1 Dai Atlas = ruthless consequentialist, IDW Dai Atlas = benign altruist

Also interesting to note that the ruthless consequentialist characters have faced widespread criticism from the fandom. G1 Dai Atlas has long been criticised by Japanese fans, and IDW Star Sabre has similarly copped criticism from some IDW readers. Although what I find peculiar is that some IDW fans openly (and vehemently) condemn IDW's Star Sabre character, yet don't bat an eyelid over how Dai Atlas has also done a complete 180 character shift. Characters like Prowl, Whirl and Getaway are also characters of highly questionable morality, yet they seem to escape fan criticism. I don't mind if they change a character, because these are different universes. Swerve, Rattrap, Tailgate, Misfire, Hubcap, lobotomised-Crankcase etc. are all characters whose IDW personas are significantly different from their G1 counterparts, yet I never hear people complaining about them. Weird.

And I know that I've criticised Bayverse Optimus Prime for being a ruthless consequentialist, but that's because he swings from being a benign altruist one moment, then to being a ruthless consequentialist the next. If they want to establish Movie Optimus Prime as a more ruthless consequentialistic character, then fine, do it, but do it consistently! IDW Star Sabre is a twisted extremist zealot, but he's always a twisted extremist zealot! There are no character-contradictions with him, within the confines of his own continuity/universe. And have the same character having very different personas in different canonical sources is nothing new. G1 comic Shockwave is cold, calculating and incapable of feeling emotion. G1 cartoon Shockwave is a passionate and deeply loyal sycophant of Megatron.

^ I don't mind any of the stuff I read in IDW when I was reading it from a change of characterisation perspective, and I've become less worried about them killing characters because nobody seems to stay dead. I just dislike how in the Bayverse the Autobots are not a altruistic force that rarely kills like in the cartoons, but rather ruthless killing machines. I couldn't imagine Optimus from any cartoon killing a human, but that's what he does in AOE. Anyway, good to know I wasn't imagining things and the Autobots really almost never have killed any named characters in the Hasbro cartoons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

^This. :) I find it interesting that Star Sabre and Dai Atlas have somewhat swapped ethical outlooks between their G1 and IDW counterparts.

G1 Star Sabre = benign altruist, IDW Star Sabre = ruthless consequentialist
G1 Dai Atlas = ruthless consequentialist, IDW Dai Atlas = benign altruist

Also interesting to note that the ruthless consequentialist characters have faced widespread criticism from the fandom. G1 Dai Atlas has long been criticised by Japanese fans, and IDW Star Sabre has similarly copped criticism from some IDW readers. Although what I find peculiar is that some IDW fans openly (and vehemently) condemn IDW's Star Sabre character, yet don't bat an eyelid over how Dai Atlas has also done a complete 180 character shift. Characters like Prowl, Whirl and Getaway are also characters of highly questionable morality, yet they seem to escape fan criticism. I don't mind if they change a character, because these are different universes. Swerve, Rattrap, Tailgate, Misfire, Hubcap, lobotomised-Crankcase etc. are all characters whose IDW personas are significantly different from their G1 counterparts, yet I never hear people complaining about them. Weird.

And I know that I've criticised Bayverse Optimus Prime for being a ruthless consequentialist, but that's because he swings from being a benign altruist one moment, then to being a ruthless consequentialist the next. If they want to establish Movie Optimus Prime as a more ruthless consequentialistic character, then fine, do it, but do it consistently! IDW Star Sabre is a twisted extremist zealot, but he's always a twisted extremist zealot! There are no character-contradictions with him, within the confines of his own continuity/universe. And have the same character having very different personas in different canonical sources is nothing new. G1 comic Shockwave is cold, calculating and incapable of feeling emotion. G1 cartoon Shockwave is a passionate and deeply loyal sycophant of Megatron.

---

There is a small difference - Star Sabre is a ruthless consequentialist zealot, Star Saber is a benign altruistic leader. :P

(Seriously, I know "sabre" is the correct spelling of the word outside of America, but surely "Star Saber" is a proper noun? AFAIK he's never been referred to as Star Sabre in any official documents outside of your own translations! Also it might help to establish that Star Saber is a guy while the star sabre is a crazy-powerful sword sometimes made up of three minicons, but maybe that's just my preference)